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Which watercooling kit for my built C2D computer?

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Last response: in CPUs
September 9, 2006 4:27:12 PM

I built a Core 2 Duo computer in late August. My computer is working great but I think I would like to go to watercooling because my stock fan is just not cutting it (46c idle, 50 stressed). I have tried reseating my heatsink but that has not made a difference (there was a scratch on the bottom though).

I have no idea where to start with watercooling. I don't want something too complicated (easiest would be best), all internal parts (no exterior radiators) and I would like to keep the price around $150USD. My x1900xt has a special cooler which is quiet enough, so I don't need the set to have a gpu block included.

Any thoughts...

Thanks

More about : watercooling kit built c2d computer

a b à CPUs
September 9, 2006 4:44:03 PM

Quote:
I built a Core 2 Duo computer in late August. My computer is working great but I think I would like to go to watercooling because my stock fan is just not cutting it (46c idle, 50 stressed). I have tried reseating my heatsink but that has not made a difference (there was a scratch on the bottom though).

I have no idea where to start with watercooling. I don't want something too complicated (easiest would be best), all internal parts (no exterior radiators) and I would like to keep the price around $150USD. My x1900xt has a special cooler which is quiet enough, so I don't need the set to have a gpu block included.

Any thoughts...

Thanks


Swiftech H20-80 Micro CPU Liquid Cool Kit $179.95USD

Or you could buy the parts seperatly.. I can keep it under $200USD and offer more performance then the kit I mentioned above. Here's a list:

- Swiftech APOGEE Extreme Performance Universal Water-block
- Black Ice® GT Stealth 120 XFlow Highest Peformance Radiator
- Danger Den MAG II Limited Edition 12 Volt Pump
- Swiftech MCRES-MICRO™ Reservoir
- 5FT ClearFlex 60 Tubing 1/2" ID 3/4" OD
- 8 Reuseable Clamps - For 1/2" Tubing (3/4" O.D.)
- Swiftech HydrX Coolant
- Zalman ZM-F3 Silent 120mm Fan with Soft Gel Mounts - Sleeved

Total is 181.95USD

With either of the two you'll need to buy Distilled Water from your loval grocery store.. it's quite cheap. The second setup will give you FAR better performance due to the Radiator being larger (120MM vs. 80MM). The second setup would also be much more silent.
September 9, 2006 5:04:18 PM

Well, since you've set a budget, that will make things easier.

Being that the heat generation characteristics of a C2D proc is much less than the previous recent Intel procs also gives you the ability to maximize its potential when watercooled.


While the kit that ElMoIsEviL suggested is slightly above what you had intended on spending on a kit, I would have to second his recommendation. The pump, the MCP350, is perfect for what you are seeking and the Apogee is a very good CPU waterblock. While you may find people recommending kits like those from Thermaltake (Bigwater, etc.) purchasing this kit will allow you to transfer it to other cases or computers as you upgrade. Also, you can easily add virtually any name brand component should you ever decide to add GPU or chipset waterblocks to your cooling loop.

Furthermore, this kits also allows you to upgrade the kit itself in a piece-by-piece manner with ease as you get more acquainted with watercooling and begin to develop your own philosophy with this type of cooling solution.

It meets all your requirements (save the slightly higher cost) - is easy to construct, highly adaptable, quiet and can be fitted to be completely internal. Ideally, though, if you could move up to ElMoIsEviL Do-It-Yourself (DIY) suggestions for the 1/2 ID solution, that would allow you to take advantage of the high flow characteristics of a 1/2 ID kit.
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September 9, 2006 5:29:37 PM

Thanks for the input from the both of you!

It looks good I must say.. I just have a few questions.

First, if I were to get all of the parts seperately and put it together myself I would have no idea how to put it together correctly (no installation instructions). Second, where do i mount that res.. anywhere in the case? Third, are the clamps for the tubing where the tubing meets a connection? Finally, do I really have to get that coolermaster fan.. because I already have a case fan in the back 120mm... would that not suffice.. what does the coolermaster offer that mine does not?

thanks for the help

any more advice would be great
September 9, 2006 5:39:25 PM

1) As for putting the loop together correctly, just follow the flow.

Reservoir - pump - waterblock - radiator - back to reservoir

2) Ideally, you want to mount the reservoiras high as you can somewhere above the pump so that gravity will assist in directing the flow to the pump. The reason for this is because pumps were designed to push water, not suck it in. The idea is to task the pumps suction function as little as possible. As for where exactly? Place it where you can.

3) You put the the clamps where ever the tubing connects so as to prevent leakage (due to the developing water pressure within the tubing).

4) You can use whatever 120mm fan you want actually. Just remember that the radiator uses a 120mm fan so stay within that spec.
a b à CPUs
September 9, 2006 5:41:18 PM

Quote:
Thanks for the input from the both of you!

It looks good I must say.. I just have a few questions.

First, if I were to get all of the parts seperately and put it together myself I would have no idea how to put it together correctly (no installation instructions). Second, where do i mount that res.. anywhere in the case? Third, are the clamps for the tubing where the tubing meets a connection? Finally, do I really have to get that coolermaster fan.. because I already have a case fan in the back 120mm... would that not suffice.. what does the coolermaster offer that mine does not?

thanks for the help

any more advice would be great


You can add me to your buddy list on here and PM me when you get the parts and I will help you assemble it all together :) 
The Clamps do go where the tubing meets the connections. If you already have a 120MM fan then you can use that. And if you have the 120MM fan mounted on the back of the case you can mount the radiator there.
September 9, 2006 6:30:22 PM

Thanks for the help.

The only thing i am concered with is if the radiator will fit in my mid-sized NZXT Apollo case.
a b à CPUs
September 9, 2006 6:45:02 PM

This one...
September 10, 2006 3:20:12 AM

yup that's the one!

From the outside it might look like it might fit.. but on the inside right above the pci expansion slots there is a round piece of medal.. which might hinder one side of the radiator..
September 10, 2006 5:18:48 AM

no way in hell im mounting an ugly ass radiator fan on the outside of my beautiful black case
September 10, 2006 5:41:55 AM

If you hook the 120mm fan like it normally is done, against the back of the case, you would then hook the rad onto it so that the rad doesn't, actually, touch the case at all. Would that not give you enough clearance from what obstructions might hinder you?
September 10, 2006 7:00:23 AM

I have a question whose answer may be of interest to the OP.

The question: I've heard (and read) about non-conductor liquids that can be used instead of water in a "water" cooled setup but I cannot remember what they are. Is there a non-conductor liquid that can be used instead of water that does not conduct electricity and that is as thermally efficient as water (or better) ?

Thanks
September 10, 2006 7:21:00 AM

No liquid is as thermally efficient as water. But, you have to look at things from a different perspective. PrimoChill ICE is not just a non-conductive liquid but also retards the growth of biological compounds and also acts as a lubricant. Also, most waterblocks use copper contacts with the chips they have to cool. Radiators are typically made of aluminum. These two metals, when mixed with water, promote deterioration of metal integrity - like an old battery. These liquids are preventative measures against such galvanic reactions.

Typically, you give up around 3 degrees or so when comparing these liquids to straight water but it simply cannot be helped.

I hope this helps..and, you're welcome
September 10, 2006 2:24:51 PM

Would mounting the radiator on the outside part of the fan still cool the radiator as well by pulling hot air away instead of blowing cool air over the radiator?
September 10, 2006 2:31:16 PM

is your avatar Cramer from Seinfeld

:D 
September 10, 2006 2:36:50 PM

yes it is..
September 10, 2006 2:41:50 PM

Quote:
yes it is..



nice ....
September 10, 2006 2:50:34 PM

you're still, basically, doing the same thing - the warmer air existing in the fins is being drawn away and replaced by cooler air. It's all good
September 10, 2006 2:53:20 PM

Quote:
So random.


should've PM'd him :( 
September 10, 2006 3:58:05 PM

Your temps seem fine for the stock HSF. Keep in mind that watercooling won't be worth it unless you are aiming for a high overclock, it is also much more cost-effective to get an high-end heatpipe based HSF than a pre-built watercooling kit.

If you intend to overclock and insist on getting a watercooling system, here are my suggestions :

TDX for LGA775 53$

Laing D5 75$

Chevette Heatercore 20$ (45$ if you include the shroud and a 120mm fan)

Or

Bonneville Heatercore 35$ (74$ if you include a double shroud and two 120mm fans)

You can probably find the hoses at a local home hardware store for much cheaper than what online retailers will sell it for, the walls on 3/4 OD tubes are too thick IMHO, I prefer using 5/8 OD tubing with appropriately size spiral binders (dirt cheap office supplies) wound around it (Like this) to prevent kinks.

You won't need those expensive "nonconductive" fluids if you properly secure the tubing and fittings together using sturdy and reliable worm drive hose clamps (they're much stronger than cheap plastic clips and available in most home hardware store) and leakproof your loop before mounting it inside your case, that way, you can use deionized or distilled water along with the watercooling additive of your choice without worrying about any spills or leaks.
September 10, 2006 4:21:58 PM

Is there anyway in the future that i will be able to cool my gfx card and other such things with the set that you guys picked out.. (is swiftec better than dangerden's cpu block.. jw)

If I do cool other items in my computer does that mean I will need a bigger res.. or just need to add more fluid?
a b à CPUs
September 10, 2006 4:24:46 PM

Quote:
yup that's the one!

From the outside it might look like it might fit.. but on the inside right above the pci expansion slots there is a round piece of medal.. which might hinder one side of the radiator..


Well here's how I had mounted one in my old setup.


You could have the fan first and the rad after if you like as well.. it's up to you.. just make sure it's pushing air out of the case.
September 10, 2006 4:45:18 PM

Oh yeah. That's the beauty of building a Do-It-Yourself kit using parts from different companies. It has the advantage of interchangeablity (as you are not stuck having to use proprietary parts) and you get to construst it in such a way that it would reflect your cooling philosophy (and not some companies).

As you become more familiar with the various companies and their products, you can also pick the brains of several guys here and from all that, you'll begin to develop your own foundation. As a beginners kit, those parts are excellent. That pump, the Mag II, uses G1/4 screw threads. This will allow you to use adapters to switch it between 1/4 ID, 3/8 ID and 1/2 ID. You are going to learn about various pumps, each with their own advantages, as well as the different waterblocks for different components (including your GPU). As for reservoirs, the one reservoir is fine. It will be very likely that you'll come to posses several reservoirs in the future (of which you'll only use one) as your cooling philosophy "finds" itself.

With the kit you are going to put together you can mix or match whatever parts from whatever companies you decide upon. It would be relatively easy to add additional waterblocks to the loop.
September 10, 2006 4:58:06 PM

Quote:
Is there anyway in the future that i will be able to cool my gfx card and other such things with the set that you guys picked out.. (is swiftec better than dangerden's cpu block.. jw)

If I do cool other items in my computer does that mean I will need a bigger res.. or just need to add more fluid?


A reservoir is superfluous, just go for a T-Line (the most innexpensive option) or an inline bleeder system (two T's and 3 shut-off valves).

The Swiftech Apogee and DD TDX are more or less equivalent, the only reason why I recommend buying from DD is that they sell pre-modded automotive heatercore which are extremely cost-effective compared to more expensive rads, obviously, you'll save on shipping by ordering all your stuff from a single place.

If you need more cooling potential for eventually adding a GPU block to your loop, just get a bigger radiator such as the Bonneville Heatercore that I linked to in my previous post, it has more surface area (about twice as much) than the Chevette HC so it can dissipate a lot more heat, adding more coolant mass (such as a reservoir) won't help with dissipating more heat.

I strongly suggest that you don't overlook the shroud, a shroud spread out the airflow over a wider area of the rad by reducing the effect of the dead spot in the middle of the fan. It is also considerably better to have the fan sucking the air out of the rad instead of having it blowing air through it, then again, the best scenario is to have a push-pull setup but such an assembly is much louder and extremely bulky, making it hard to fit it inside a case.
September 11, 2006 12:23:10 AM

Your reply certainly helped.

I am thinking about watercooling my next system, hence the interest.

Thank you again.
September 11, 2006 1:58:02 AM

Thanks for all of your help.. I did a little research on my own though.. and had a few more questions.

What is the difference between this Radiator (which might actually fit in my case) and the one you originally picked out Radiator you picked out

My other question was how many of feet of the tubing will I need to route through my whole case?

Finally, now that my computer is already put together.. will I have to take off my motherboard in order to install the cpu block?
September 12, 2006 6:09:53 AM

Quote:
Thanks for all of your help.. I did a little research on my own though.. and had a few more questions.

What is the difference between this Radiator (which might actually fit in my case) and the one you originally picked out Radiator you picked out

My other question was how many of feet of the tubing will I need to route through my whole case?

Finally, now that my computer is already put together.. will I have to take off my motherboard in order to install the cpu block?


I think you probably meant to thank Phreejak or ElmoIsEvil. They really helped quite a bit.
September 12, 2006 6:30:43 AM

The X-flow is a single pass radiator. The other rad is the more traditional dual pass - which is what you'll find more people use.

To run a cooling loop with a CPU and GPU in a moderately sized case you shouldn't need more than 6 ft of tubing. However, I'd give youself some leeway for both customization and possible mistakes or adjustments so, perhaps, 8 ftt or more would suffice.

Unfortunately, you will need to take off the motherboard to install the CPU block because of the hold down mechanism that it employs.
September 23, 2006 5:59:36 PM

would it make sense for me to get the Storm instead of the Apogee.. I found the storm for $65

or is the performance increase not aparent?
September 23, 2006 7:14:34 PM

If you are using the Mag II pump, just stick with the Apogee. The Storm is excellent but is also considered a high resistant to flow. The results from the Apogee will be good (and since it has low flow resistant characteristics, much more suitable)
September 24, 2006 3:22:39 AM

I am not getting the mag II. Instead I thought it would be better for the "future" (addition of gfx cards in loop) to get the Swiftech MCP655. Now would you recommend the storm?
September 24, 2006 3:46:04 AM

Yes, as long as you are definitely getting the MCP655, the Storm would be ideal....
September 24, 2006 2:49:39 PM

another question.. i want to get this as perfect as possible!

What are the differences between getting 3/8" ID and 1/2" ID tubing? I have heard from some people that it doesn't make a difference, others say it does, what is the truth?

If you were to recommend 1/2" ID, what is the difference between 3/4" OD and 5/8 OD? Is it better to have a thinner or thicker wall?
September 24, 2006 7:54:52 PM

the difference between 1/2 ID and 3/8 ID is most apparent if you had an example of both tubing products in front of you. 1/2 ID has greater flow characteristics. Anyone who says it doesn't make a difference is smoking crack and doesnt know as much about water cooling as they pretend to.


The thicker the wall the stronger the tubing and that means the better the bend radius. I use 1/2 ID 11/16 OD tubing in my cooling loop
September 24, 2006 8:13:18 PM

So your saying I should go with the Clearflex 60 1/2" ID and 3/4" OD... however the tubing you have is simlar to 5/8" x 2= 10/16"

Im a bit confused.. I don't want to have to big of tubing, because I need to be able to route this around my large X1900xt in my mid-tower case.
September 24, 2006 8:27:16 PM

You are totally fine with that. It's an excellent tubing.
September 24, 2006 8:37:53 PM

so 5/8"'s is fine for OD?

also are those coolsleave coil things that go on the outside of the tubing really necessary or is this just another marketing ploy?
September 24, 2006 8:51:10 PM

5/8 OD if excellent...

Coolsleeves a maerketing ploy? Most definitely not.

What they do is try and distribute the pressure, equally, to all sides of a tubing wall when used in a tight bend. This provides you with the added protection against kinking and/or tubing collapse. For example, I had an occassion where the tubing from the reseroir outlet (to the pump) would get flat and, practically, prevent any coolant movement through it. I was able to correct this by using coolsleeves, which distributed the pressure to the entire wall of the tubing, thus, preventing any further collapse.

Coolsleeves is definitely something that I always recommend to anyone. I use it any place where I have to have a bend in the tubing.
September 24, 2006 9:47:20 PM

man this system is going to cost me a ton.. i hope it is worth it.. i think i am up to $250 now
September 24, 2006 9:47:25 PM

It's been a while but I'm going to chime in here....

I like the MCP655 and Storm (as this is also what I have).

I switched from the 1/2" ID x 5/8" OD to the 1/2" ID x 3/4" OD because of the kinking and flattening problem. I suggest that if you use the 5/8" OD then get the cool sleeves if you use the 3/4" OD then you probably don't need them.
September 24, 2006 9:54:45 PM

Man, you don't even want to know how much my cooling system has cost me - as much as the gross national product of some third-world countries....
September 24, 2006 10:08:21 PM

Thanks for the advise.. I think I will go with the 5/8" OD and the coolsleaves

Phreejak: funny comment :) .. most likely true though

Also: because I am getting Primochill Ice for my system, I do not need to also get the Swiftex Hydrx do I?
September 24, 2006 10:20:07 PM

nope
September 24, 2006 10:37:35 PM

How do i jump the system so i can run the 12-24 leak test?

Also how do you add the coolant, do you add a little at first and then keep adding or do you just poor everything in the res at once?
September 24, 2006 11:02:51 PM

Quote:
5/8 OD if excellent...

Coolsleeves a maerketing ploy? Most definitely not.

What they do is try and distribute the pressure, equally, to all sides of a tubing wall when used in a tight bend. This provides you with the added protection against kinking and/or tubing collapse. For example, I had an occassion where the tubing from the reseroir outlet (to the pump) would get flat and, practically, prevent any coolant movement through it. I was able to correct this by using coolsleeves, which distributed the pressure to the entire wall of the tubing, thus, preventing any further collapse.

Coolsleeves is definitely something that I always recommend to anyone. I use it any place where I have to have a bend in the tubing.


No need to buy coolsleeves when you can get a much cheaper alternative :



You can find those dirt cheap plastic spiral binders in office supply stores or any place that photocopy and bind documents (including the office you work at, just ask the office clerk, if you're lucky, he'll hand you some for free), they're sturdy and once you wrap them about thin walled tubing, they'll prevent kinks even at high angles.

September 24, 2006 11:09:45 PM

While there is a way to use wiring to jump the PSU, since you are just beginning to get into all this I'm not going to advocate that (Just because, if you do it wrong you might hurt something). Having said that, get one of these:

ATX Power Supply Starter ($2.00)
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_p...

You plug this into the PSU (even when the PSU is not in the case) and when you turnt he PSU on, it will activate as if you had turned the computer on. Don't have ANYTHING connected to the PSU when you do this (except the water pump). When you turn the PSU on, the pump will activate and begin moving water through your system. Let it run for 24 hours for leaktesting.

What I do when I add coolant is fill up the reservoir (and make cerain that the water has, at least, moved out of the outlet connector and has travelled down the tubing and has run into the pump. Turn the PSU on so that the pump activates and watch as the coolant is moved by the pump. After a second of two, Turn off the PSU and refill the reservoir. Runt he pump again, this time for a few seconds more, and turn off the PSU. Repeat this process until the reservoir is full and the cooling loop has evidence of coolant (with no air) all throughout.
September 24, 2006 11:35:04 PM

Seems like a good investment...

How will I get all of the air out of my loop?
September 24, 2006 11:57:25 PM

you would bleed it out of the fillport (where you pour in the coolant) as you are testing the loop.
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