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Anybody using refills for Canon i9900?

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August 24, 2005 6:46:45 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I've had my i9900 for over a year now and recently I've been printing a lot
more of those 13 X 19 posters so the ink costs are starting get expensive. So
far I've only used Canon OEM inks but I'd like to switch to refills to save
some money. I realize that the BCI-6 cartridges are among the easiest to
refill and there are many companies selling refill kits, but because the i9900
uses a different print head with more nozzles and smaller droplets, I'm more
worried about clogging than I would be with a lower-end printer.

Has anybody with an i9900 had any experience (positive or negative) with any
refill kits?

I would only refilling the 6 main colors; the red and green get used so
little that it doesn't make sense to refill them. I've been looking through
all the archived posts on here and so far my list of choices is as follows:

inksupply.com - mostly positive opinions, a 6-color kit with empty cartridges
is $72.45
hobbicolors.com - few opinions, a kit costs $17 but only includes a single
syringe that you have to rinse; smells like trouble
inkgrabber.com or inkjetmaddness.com - no refills; full cartridges only. Price
is either $15 or $20 for a six-pack
alotofthings.com - useless since they won't ship to Canada
weink.com - mostly positive opinions but $200 is outrageous!
inkjetsaver.com - low cost $27 plus $18 for empty cartridges, but I found one
article on here that called this a "disaster"
inkjetgoodies.com - few opinions, a kit costs $71.64
printerfillingstation.com - few opinions, an 8-color kit costs $60 but it
doesn't come with empty cartridges
inkproducts.com - few opinions, a kit costs $64.95
atlanticinkjet.com - apparently they use (or did use) the highly acclaimed
Formulabs ink, a 6-color kit with empty cartridges would be $22+22+18=$62 CAD

Has anybody used any of the above with an i9900?

--Tom.

More about : refills canon i9900

August 24, 2005 6:46:46 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

> weink.com - mostly positive opinions but $200 is outrageous!

Keep in mind that the $200 fee includes alot of stuff and 135ml bottles
of ink. The inksupply kit has 1/2 the ink for $72.45 only has 2oz of
ink per color. To be a fair contest add the cost of the bulk ink
(45.95) for a total of $118.40 for 4oz/118ml of ink. And it also
includes a bonus bottle of one color... where the equlivent at
inksupply.com would be $8.00.. so $126.40.

Strickly speaking the bulk 4oz mis ink @ $8.00 is less than the $10.35
price for 135ml of weink.com ink.

Why consider spending $73.60 extra (+$12.27/tank)? Well I didn't but
that doesn't mean there are not things to consider. I have no direct
experence with their ink so I can't speek on that issue, but their kit
includes sponge free tanks. Key advantage is the fact that they will
in all likelyhood last the lifetime on the printer and hold more ink.
The disadvantage is the fact that you must vacuum fill which takes
longer than the sponge type and more prone to foaming in my experence.
The sponge type do have a limited lifespan, and tend to cost $5ish a
pop. I picked the sponge type because I feel they are easier to
refill.

I don't represent either company... I only evaulated these products in
the past.
August 24, 2005 7:37:57 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Tom - I've been refilling my i960 (six color) printer with MIS inks and been
very happy with them. I've used them for almost a year now and had no
clogs. The color match is quite good. I'm in touch with several very
discerning people who are using Formulabs ink from Alotofthings, but I do
understand that they don't ship to Canada. One participant, Stevelee,
posted his successful use of Hobbicolors inks on this NG and I've mentioned
that in my previous posts.

I'd suggest that you go onto Neil Slade's site and read his info and then
sign into the Nifty-Stuff Forum and follow the threads that are of interest
to you. You can ask the same question you posed here and see if you get a
response. Most of the people on that Forum use Canon printers and most also
refill their carts. In a very short time that forum has grown to over 500
participants. There are very helpful people on both this NG and the Nifty
forum, but the forum delves into more detailed issues on refilling carts.

You may have noticed that we have one individual who has no experience with
aftermarket inks but rants and warns people that aftermarket inks are no
good and will clog your printer. On this NG you can read posts from
Taliesyn, drc023, Frank, Tony, Stevelee, Jon O'brien, Zakezuke, and several
others who have had good experience with aftermarket inks. The Nifty Forum
has no such obnoxious behaviour.
http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/

http://www.neilslade.com/papers/inkjetstuff.html


"Tom" <tom8192@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:p cROe.296330$5V4.128299@pd7tw3no...
> I've had my i9900 for over a year now and recently I've been printing a
> lot
> more of those 13 X 19 posters so the ink costs are starting get expensive.
> So
> far I've only used Canon OEM inks but I'd like to switch to refills to
> save
> some money. I realize that the BCI-6 cartridges are among the easiest to
> refill and there are many companies selling refill kits, but because the
> i9900
> uses a different print head with more nozzles and smaller droplets, I'm
> more
> worried about clogging than I would be with a lower-end printer.
>
> Has anybody with an i9900 had any experience (positive or negative) with
> any
> refill kits?
>
> I would only refilling the 6 main colors; the red and green get used so
> little that it doesn't make sense to refill them. I've been looking
> through
> all the archived posts on here and so far my list of choices is as
> follows:
>
> inksupply.com - mostly positive opinions, a 6-color kit with empty
> cartridges
> is $72.45
> hobbicolors.com - few opinions, a kit costs $17 but only includes a single
> syringe that you have to rinse; smells like trouble
> inkgrabber.com or inkjetmaddness.com - no refills; full cartridges only.
> Price
> is either $15 or $20 for a six-pack
> alotofthings.com - useless since they won't ship to Canada
> weink.com - mostly positive opinions but $200 is outrageous!
> inkjetsaver.com - low cost $27 plus $18 for empty cartridges, but I found
> one
> article on here that called this a "disaster"
> inkjetgoodies.com - few opinions, a kit costs $71.64
> printerfillingstation.com - few opinions, an 8-color kit costs $60 but it
> doesn't come with empty cartridges
> inkproducts.com - few opinions, a kit costs $64.95
> atlanticinkjet.com - apparently they use (or did use) the highly acclaimed
> Formulabs ink, a 6-color kit with empty cartridges would be $22+22+18=$62
> CAD
>
> Has anybody used any of the above with an i9900?
>
> --Tom.
>
Related resources
August 24, 2005 8:03:08 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I went onto the Nifty Forum and checked out some posts by Grandad35. He
refills his carts with Formulabs inks for his i9900 and also has developed
custom profiles for Formulabs inks and several papers. The profiles are
available to be downloaded for personal use only from the Forum. He can
also answer any questions you might have about refilling for this printer.

Do you have a friend in the US who can order Formulabs inks for you and
reship them to Canada? Probably less costly to just order MIS inks to have
shipped directly. You might also look through the posts and email Taliesyn
who lives in Canada to see what inks he is using. He had wanted to order
Formulabs inks as well.

"Tom" <tom8192@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:p cROe.296330$5V4.128299@pd7tw3no...
> I've had my i9900 for over a year now and recently I've been printing a
> lot
> more of those 13 X 19 posters so the ink costs are starting get expensive.
> So
> far I've only used Canon OEM inks but I'd like to switch to refills to
> save
> some money. I realize that the BCI-6 cartridges are among the easiest to
> refill and there are many companies selling refill kits, but because the
> i9900
> uses a different print head with more nozzles and smaller droplets, I'm
> more
> worried about clogging than I would be with a lower-end printer.
>
> Has anybody with an i9900 had any experience (positive or negative) with
> any
> refill kits?
>
> I would only refilling the 6 main colors; the red and green get used so
> little that it doesn't make sense to refill them. I've been looking
> through
> all the archived posts on here and so far my list of choices is as
> follows:
>
> inksupply.com - mostly positive opinions, a 6-color kit with empty
> cartridges
> is $72.45
> hobbicolors.com - few opinions, a kit costs $17 but only includes a single
> syringe that you have to rinse; smells like trouble
> inkgrabber.com or inkjetmaddness.com - no refills; full cartridges only.
> Price
> is either $15 or $20 for a six-pack
> alotofthings.com - useless since they won't ship to Canada
> weink.com - mostly positive opinions but $200 is outrageous!
> inkjetsaver.com - low cost $27 plus $18 for empty cartridges, but I found
> one
> article on here that called this a "disaster"
> inkjetgoodies.com - few opinions, a kit costs $71.64
> printerfillingstation.com - few opinions, an 8-color kit costs $60 but it
> doesn't come with empty cartridges
> inkproducts.com - few opinions, a kit costs $64.95
> atlanticinkjet.com - apparently they use (or did use) the highly acclaimed
> Formulabs ink, a 6-color kit with empty cartridges would be $22+22+18=$62
> CAD
>
> Has anybody used any of the above with an i9900?
>
> --Tom.
>
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 8:05:00 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article <pcROe.296330$5V4.128299@pd7tw3no>, tom8192@hotmail.com (Tom)
wrote:

> Has anybody with an i9900 had any experience (positive or negative)
> with any refill kits?

Measekite note: he's looking for people with *experience*, not
unsupported, prejudicial opinions.

Jon.
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 3:26:05 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I run an i9100 which is the 6-color equivalent of the i9900 or the big
brother (wide carriage version) of the i960. I have run almost 16
ounces of each color using the weink continuous feed with the weink
inks over the last year or so with no problems. The weink prices are
about $5 per 16 oz more than the others, or a total of $30 for an
awful lot of ink and no problems. You pays your money and you takes
your choice.

Jim


On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 02:46:45 GMT, tom8192@hotmail.com (Tom) wrote:

>I've had my i9900 for over a year now and recently I've been printing a lot
>more of those 13 X 19 posters so the ink costs are starting get expensive. So
>far I've only used Canon OEM inks but I'd like to switch to refills to save
>some money. I realize that the BCI-6 cartridges are among the easiest to
>refill and there are many companies selling refill kits, but because the i9900
>uses a different print head with more nozzles and smaller droplets, I'm more
>worried about clogging than I would be with a lower-end printer.
>
>Has anybody with an i9900 had any experience (positive or negative) with any
>refill kits?
>
>I would only refilling the 6 main colors; the red and green get used so
>little that it doesn't make sense to refill them. I've been looking through
>all the archived posts on here and so far my list of choices is as follows:
>
>inksupply.com - mostly positive opinions, a 6-color kit with empty cartridges
>is $72.45
>hobbicolors.com - few opinions, a kit costs $17 but only includes a single
>syringe that you have to rinse; smells like trouble
>inkgrabber.com or inkjetmaddness.com - no refills; full cartridges only. Price
>is either $15 or $20 for a six-pack
>alotofthings.com - useless since they won't ship to Canada
>weink.com - mostly positive opinions but $200 is outrageous!
>inkjetsaver.com - low cost $27 plus $18 for empty cartridges, but I found one
>article on here that called this a "disaster"
>inkjetgoodies.com - few opinions, a kit costs $71.64
>printerfillingstation.com - few opinions, an 8-color kit costs $60 but it
>doesn't come with empty cartridges
>inkproducts.com - few opinions, a kit costs $64.95
>atlanticinkjet.com - apparently they use (or did use) the highly acclaimed
>Formulabs ink, a 6-color kit with empty cartridges would be $22+22+18=$62 CAD
>
>Has anybody used any of the above with an i9900?
>
>--Tom.
August 24, 2005 10:10:30 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

> too bad there are no reliable venders selling branded ink. I know that canon is
> overpriced and really wish there was an alternative. i spent a lot of time researching
> the problem and unfortunately came up empty handed

There are plenty of reliable venders. I'll agree that most venders
don't disclose what they are using... but neither does Canon.

Your main arguments that you repeat over and over again are as follows

1. "There are no brands"
This is a lie. I've done very little research and know of at least two
"brands". Print-rite who I bought dot matrix ribbons from in the past.
Media Street who are a manufacturer and distributer of inks and
papers. I know for a fact that their products can be bought at
Hassleblads. You've been told this before as well as others I don't
know off the top of my head. Hell even IMS I would call a brand
available at Costco.

2. "The don't disclose what they are giving you"
Some do.

3. "They are unprofessional"
If you don't like cottage industry don't support it. Plenty of options
to choose from whether you want to support monks, dikes on bikes, small
business or huge business.

4. "Venders use to give advice on this forum"
This is true, and hosted a faq. But the only person who had a problem
with this arangement that had been going on for 10 years was you.

5. "You risk your printhead"
This is true... you do. But given the cost of OEM inks vs the risk to
a print head so long as you make it through two refills you have saved
money. The lifespan of the printhead is so limited anyway according to
canon's numbers. What i'd reccomend is buying alot of it and getting
your self a new cheep printer and actually measuring out how different
media affects the printhead life.

6. "Don't listen to the aftermarket church"
Rather then the only member of the Church of the OEM who continualy
floods this group with spam? Why not change this, don't listen to
fanatics, your self included.

You only have two really valid points... with OEM you have some
assurance it's compatable with your printer and anything else is an
option question as to it's long term effects. This is an important
thing to point out to people seeking advice you would not be wrong in
doing so. But you do it over and over again... posting again and again
basicly the same message, the same statements. This is the very thesis
of spam... you are a spammer for Canon.

But the real question is why do you care so much what people use? What
affect does it have on you personaly? I like to share information with
others because this is something I enjoy... and I benifit from other's
who also share information. I have no loyality to any church of
thought regarding the subject, only to rational. I made the choice to
use aftermarket ink... in fact you were the person who's arguments
helped make my final choice. It seems to me if there is a force at
work trying to hard to make me choose something without question that
by all rights I had to question that... and if as you say the most
that you risk is a printhead that risk is small and the benifit
outweighs it.

In the end... I wish you should respect the choices they make... let
them deside what is best for them. At end game that's all that
matters. I do wish Canon would stop employing people to flood
discussion boards and blogs. I dislike spammers as does most the
civilized world.

The reason problem is what you are shown and what you know you ignore,
and what you don't know you invent.
August 25, 2005 1:21:24 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Tom wrote:
> I've had my i9900 for over a year now and recently I've been printing a lot
> more of those 13 X 19 posters so the ink costs are starting get expensive. So
> far I've only used Canon OEM inks but I'd like to switch to refills to save
> some money. I realize that the BCI-6 cartridges are among the easiest to
> refill and there are many companies selling refill kits, but because the i9900
> uses a different print head with more nozzles and smaller droplets, I'm more
> worried about clogging than I would be with a lower-end printer.
>
> Has anybody with an i9900 had any experience (positive or negative) with any
> refill kits?
>
> I would only refilling the 6 main colors; the red and green get used so
> little that it doesn't make sense to refill them. I've been looking through
> all the archived posts on here and so far my list of choices is as follows:
>
> inksupply.com - mostly positive opinions, a 6-color kit with empty cartridges
> is $72.45
> hobbicolors.com - few opinions, a kit costs $17 but only includes a single
> syringe that you have to rinse; smells like trouble
> inkgrabber.com or inkjetmaddness.com - no refills; full cartridges only. Price
> is either $15 or $20 for a six-pack
> alotofthings.com - useless since they won't ship to Canada
> weink.com - mostly positive opinions but $200 is outrageous!
> inkjetsaver.com - low cost $27 plus $18 for empty cartridges, but I found one
> article on here that called this a "disaster"
> inkjetgoodies.com - few opinions, a kit costs $71.64
> printerfillingstation.com - few opinions, an 8-color kit costs $60 but it
> doesn't come with empty cartridges
> inkproducts.com - few opinions, a kit costs $64.95
> atlanticinkjet.com - apparently they use (or did use) the highly acclaimed
> Formulabs ink, a 6-color kit with empty cartridges would be $22+22+18=$62 CAD
>
> Has anybody used any of the above with an i9900?
>
> --Tom.
>
I've used nothing but after market carts in my i9900 after the oem were
all used up. I have never had a head clog nor have I (or my clients)
noticed any color difference at all.
You have to nuts to continue to use oem inks.
Frank
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 2:55:32 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I have used Hobbicolors refill kit for my ip8500, extremely happy so far.
The kit came with 8 3rd party BCI-6 cartridges using plastic screws to seal.
It works effortlessly. Just screw and unscrew. No tricks and no gimmick and
cheap as supposed to. In my opinion those cartridges are the best you can
get so cheaply. The ink is also fantastic. Colors are so close to OEM that
my wife can not tell which is which without staring at the prints back and
forth for a minute. Still some of the prints there are hardly any difference
at all. I have no problems for 8 moths already. I notice that I rarely need to
run clean cycles. That's a sign of trouble free operation.

You are right about getting only one syringe from their refill kit. But if
you buy the kit you will find that the syringe they provide is probably the
best you can get. It's made in Germany. They said because the syringe uses no
rubber it will last just about forever. Remember ink will eat the rubber rather
quickly. If you use separate syringes and don't rinse them you will find them
stuck in the syringe within a few months. You have to buy another set again.
I found it more practical to use one that will last long although have to rinse
between refills. It may smell like trouble to you. But it actually keeps you
out of trouble from those cheap (should be free) syringes made in China.

Talking about weink, they used to be a cheapy 2 years ago. For really no reason
they skyrocketed their prices more than doubled. They are worse than Canon in
getting your money for ink.

Formulabs is a popular brand name and for that reason will cost you more.
There are many good reports about Formulabs but there are also a few bad ones
too. Refilling itself can cause some problems if you do not have some basic
knowledge to keep your printers from getting into problems. Formulabs should
be fine except a little pricey although not as crazy as weink.

Steve

Tom wrote:

> I've had my i9900 for over a year now and recently I've been printing a lot
> more of those 13 X 19 posters so the ink costs are starting get expensive. So
> far I've only used Canon OEM inks but I'd like to switch to refills to save
> some money. I realize that the BCI-6 cartridges are among the easiest to
> refill and there are many companies selling refill kits, but because the i9900
> uses a different print head with more nozzles and smaller droplets, I'm more
> worried about clogging than I would be with a lower-end printer.
>
> Has anybody with an i9900 had any experience (positive or negative) with any
> refill kits?
>
> I would only refilling the 6 main colors; the red and green get used so
> little that it doesn't make sense to refill them. I've been looking through
> all the archived posts on here and so far my list of choices is as follows:
>
> inksupply.com - mostly positive opinions, a 6-color kit with empty cartridges
> is $72.45
> hobbicolors.com - few opinions, a kit costs $17 but only includes a single
> syringe that you have to rinse; smells like trouble
> inkgrabber.com or inkjetmaddness.com - no refills; full cartridges only. Price
> is either $15 or $20 for a six-pack
> alotofthings.com - useless since they won't ship to Canada
> weink.com - mostly positive opinions but $200 is outrageous!
> inkjetsaver.com - low cost $27 plus $18 for empty cartridges, but I found one
> article on here that called this a "disaster"
> inkjetgoodies.com - few opinions, a kit costs $71.64
> printerfillingstation.com - few opinions, an 8-color kit costs $60 but it
> doesn't come with empty cartridges
> inkproducts.com - few opinions, a kit costs $64.95
> atlanticinkjet.com - apparently they use (or did use) the highly acclaimed
> Formulabs ink, a 6-color kit with empty cartridges would be $22+22+18=$62 CAD
>
> Has anybody used any of the above with an i9900?
>
> --Tom.
>
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 4:09:17 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Tom wrote:

>I've had my i9900 for over a year now and recently I've been printing a lot
>more of those 13 X 19 posters so the ink costs are starting get expensive. So
>far I've only used Canon OEM inks
>

REAL SMART

>but I'd like to switch to refills to save
>some money.
>

RISKING A PRINTHEAD

>I realize that the BCI-6 cartridges are among the easiest to
>refill and there are many companies selling refill kits, but because the i9900
>uses a different print head with more nozzles and smaller droplets, I'm more
>worried about clogging
>

YOU CERTAINLY SHOULD BE

>than I would be with a lower-end printer.
>
>Has anybody with an i9900 had any experience (positive or negative) with any
>refill kits?
>
>

IF YOU DARE TAKE A CHANCE ONLY USE NAME BRAND INK. YOU WILL MOST LIKELY
NOT GET A GOOD VENDOR WHO WILL SELL YOU THAT BECAUSE THEY DO NOT WANT TO
DISCLOSE WHAT THEY SELL YOU.

>I would only refilling the 6 main colors; the red and green get used so
>little that it doesn't make sense to refill them. I've been looking through
>all the archived posts on here and so far my list of choices is as follows:
>
>inksupply.com - mostly positive opinions, a 6-color kit with empty cartridges
>is $72.45
>hobbicolors.com - few opinions, a kit costs $17 but only includes a single
>syringe that you have to rinse; smells like trouble
>inkgrabber.com or inkjetmaddness.com - no refills; full cartridges only. Price
>is either $15 or $20 for a six-pack
>alotofthings.com - useless since they won't ship to Canada
>
>
I FOUND THEM TO BE UNPROFESSIONAL

>weSTink.com - mostly positive opinions but $200 is outrageous!
>
>
I DO NOT TRUST THEM

>inkjetsaver.com - low cost $27 plus $18 for empty cartridges, but I found one
>article on here that called this a "disaster"
>inkjetgoodies.com - few opinions, a kit costs $71.64
>printerfillingstation.com - few opinions, an 8-color kit costs $60 but it
>doesn't come with empty cartridges
>inkproducts.com - few opinions, a kit costs $64.95
>atlanticinkjet.com - apparently they use (or did use) the highly acclaimed
>Formulabs ink, a 6-color kit with empty cartridges would be $22+22+18=$62 CAD
>
>
FORMULABS IS THE ONLY BRANDED INK BUT THEY WILL NOT SELL YOU THE BRANDED
VERSION IN SMALL QUANTITIES. EVEN THEY HAD TROUBLE. THEY CHANGED THE
MAGENTA AND DID NOT TELL THEIR VENDORS WHO RESOLD WITHOUT TESTING AND
CAUSE PROBLEMS FOR MANY PEOPLE.

STILL THEY ARE THE ONLY COMPANY THAT I KNOW OF. NONE OF THE VENDORS YOU
MENTIONED MEET WHAT I CALL THE SPECIFICATIONS THAT A VENDOR SHOULD.

TOO BAD FORMULABS DOES NOT SELL PREFILLED CARTS TO ALL OF THE BIG BOX
STORES UNDER THE FORMULABS OR SENSINENT NAME.

>Has anybody used any of the above with an i9900?
>
>--Tom.
>
>
>
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 4:09:51 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

UP UR WHOLE WID A HURSHE BAR

Jon O'Brien wrote:

>In article <pcROe.296330$5V4.128299@pd7tw3no>, tom8192@hotmail.com (Tom)
>wrote:
>
>
>
>>Has anybody with an i9900 had any experience (positive or negative)
>>with any refill kits?
>>
>>
>
>Measekite note: he's looking for people with *experience*, not
>unsupported, prejudicial opinions.
>
>Jon.
>
>
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 4:17:21 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

WESTINK USED TO GIVE ADVICE ON THIS NG AND FINALLY I FORCED HIM TO
DISCLOSE THAT HE IS A VENDOR. HE ADMITTED THAT HIS ONLY PURPOSE FOR
GIVING ADVICE WAS TO MAKE MONEY. WE HAVE NOT HEARD FROM THE LIAR FOR A
WHILE.

ALSO, HE SELLS CARTS FOR $2.00 LESS THAN YOU CAN GET CANON FOR AT COSTCO.

zakezuke wrote:

>> weink.com - mostly positive opinions but $200 is outrageous!
>>
>>
>
>Keep in mind that the $200 fee includes alot of stuff and 135ml bottles
>of ink. The inksupply kit has 1/2 the ink for $72.45 only has 2oz of
>ink per color. To be a fair contest add the cost of the bulk ink
>(45.95) for a total of $118.40 for 4oz/118ml of ink. And it also
>includes a bonus bottle of one color... where the equlivent at
>inksupply.com would be $8.00.. so $126.40.
>
>Strickly speaking the bulk 4oz mis ink @ $8.00 is less than the $10.35
>price for 135ml of weink.com ink.
>
>Why consider spending $73.60 extra (+$12.27/tank)? Well I didn't but
>that doesn't mean there are not things to consider. I have no direct
>experence with their ink so I can't speek on that issue, but their kit
>includes sponge free tanks. Key advantage is the fact that they will
>in all likelyhood last the lifetime on the printer and hold more ink.
>The disadvantage is the fact that you must vacuum fill which takes
>longer than the sponge type and more prone to foaming in my experence.
> The sponge type do have a limited lifespan, and tend to cost $5ish a
>pop. I picked the sponge type because I feel they are easier to
>refill.
>
>I don't represent either company... I only evaulated these products in
>the past.
>
>
>
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 4:19:13 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

TOO BAD THERE ARE NO RELIABLE VENDORS SELLING BRANDED INK. I KNOW THAT
CANON IS OVERPRICED AND REALLY WISH THERE WAS AN ALTERNATIVE. I SPENT A
LOT OF TIME RESEARCHING THE PROBLEM AND UNFORTUNATELY CAME UP EMPTY HANDED.

Burt wrote:

>I went onto the Nifty Forum and checked out some posts by Grandad35. He
>refills his carts with Formulabs inks for his i9900 and also has developed
>custom profiles for Formulabs inks and several papers. The profiles are
>available to be downloaded for personal use only from the Forum. He can
>also answer any questions you might have about refilling for this printer.
>
>Do you have a friend in the US who can order Formulabs inks for you and
>reship them to Canada? Probably less costly to just order MIS inks to have
>shipped directly. You might also look through the posts and email Taliesyn
>who lives in Canada to see what inks he is using. He had wanted to order
>Formulabs inks as well.
>
>"Tom" <tom8192@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:p cROe.296330$5V4.128299@pd7tw3no...
>
>
>>I've had my i9900 for over a year now and recently I've been printing a
>>lot
>>more of those 13 X 19 posters so the ink costs are starting get expensive.
>>So
>>far I've only used Canon OEM inks but I'd like to switch to refills to
>>save
>>some money. I realize that the BCI-6 cartridges are among the easiest to
>>refill and there are many companies selling refill kits, but because the
>>i9900
>>uses a different print head with more nozzles and smaller droplets, I'm
>>more
>>worried about clogging than I would be with a lower-end printer.
>>
>>Has anybody with an i9900 had any experience (positive or negative) with
>>any
>>refill kits?
>>
>>I would only refilling the 6 main colors; the red and green get used so
>>little that it doesn't make sense to refill them. I've been looking
>>through
>>all the archived posts on here and so far my list of choices is as
>>follows:
>>
>>inksupply.com - mostly positive opinions, a 6-color kit with empty
>>cartridges
>>is $72.45
>>hobbicolors.com - few opinions, a kit costs $17 but only includes a single
>>syringe that you have to rinse; smells like trouble
>>inkgrabber.com or inkjetmaddness.com - no refills; full cartridges only.
>>Price
>>is either $15 or $20 for a six-pack
>>alotofthings.com - useless since they won't ship to Canada
>>weink.com - mostly positive opinions but $200 is outrageous!
>>inkjetsaver.com - low cost $27 plus $18 for empty cartridges, but I found
>>one
>>article on here that called this a "disaster"
>>inkjetgoodies.com - few opinions, a kit costs $71.64
>>printerfillingstation.com - few opinions, an 8-color kit costs $60 but it
>>doesn't come with empty cartridges
>>inkproducts.com - few opinions, a kit costs $64.95
>>atlanticinkjet.com - apparently they use (or did use) the highly acclaimed
>>Formulabs ink, a 6-color kit with empty cartridges would be $22+22+18=$62
>>CAD
>>
>>Has anybody used any of the above with an i9900?
>>
>>--Tom.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 4:19:14 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article <588Pe.631$sV7.309@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>,
inkystinky@oem.com says...
> TOO BAD THERE ARE NO RELIABLE VENDORS SELLING BRANDED INK. I KNOW THAT
> CANON IS OVERPRICED AND REALLY WISH THERE WAS AN ALTERNATIVE. I SPENT A
> LOT OF TIME RESEARCHING THE PROBLEM AND UNFORTUNATELY CAME UP EMPTY HANDED.
>
There are several vendors selling branded refill inks from MIS,
Sensient, and others. They have offended inkystinky in some bizarre way
(even though he has not done business with any of them), and he confuses
the labeling of prefilled cartridges with the labeling of bulk ink. Bear
in mind that he is a non-user with no experience, and listen to the
users with actual experience. My very positive experience is with
alotofthings.com, but if they do not ship to Canada, you will have to
look elsewhere.
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 4:22:20 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

overload@spam.ftc.gov wrote:

>I run an i9100 which is the 6-color equivalent of the i9900 or the big
>brother (wide carriage version) of the i960. I have run almost 16
>ounces of each color using the westink continuous feed with the weink
>inks over the last year or so with no problems. The westink prices are
>about $5 per 16 oz more than the others, or a total of $30 for an
>awful lot of ink and no problems. You pays your money and you takes
>your choice.
>
>Jim
>
>
>On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 02:46:45 GMT, tom8192@hotmail.com (Tom) wrote:
>
>
>
>>I've had my i9900 for over a year now and recently I've been printing a lot
>>more of those 13 X 19 posters so the ink costs are starting get expensive. So
>>far I've only used Canon OEM inks but I'd like to switch to refills to save
>>some money. I realize that the BCI-6 cartridges are among the easiest to
>>refill and there are many companies selling refill kits, but because the i9900
>>uses a different print head with more nozzles and smaller droplets, I'm more
>>worried about clogging than I would be with a lower-end printer.
>>
>>Has anybody with an i9900 had any experience (positive or negative) with any
>>refill kits?
>>
>>I would only refilling the 6 main colors; the red and green get used so
>>little that it doesn't make sense to refill them. I've been looking through
>>all the archived posts on here and so far my list of choices is as follows:
>>
>>inksupply.com - mostly positive opinions, a 6-color kit with empty cartridges
>>is $72.45
>>hobbicolors.com - few opinions, a kit costs $17 but only includes a single
>>syringe that you have to rinse; smells like trouble
>>inkgrabber.com or inkjetmaddness.com - no refills; full cartridges only. Price
>>is either $15 or $20 for a six-pack
>>alotofthings.com - useless since they won't ship to Canada
>>weink.com - mostly positive opinions but $200 is outrageous!
>>inkjetsaver.com - low cost $27 plus $18 for empty cartridges, but I found one
>>article on here that called this a "disaster"
>>inkjetgoodies.com - few opinions, a kit costs $71.64
>>printerfillingstation.com - few opinions, an 8-color kit costs $60 but it
>>doesn't come with empty cartridges
>>inkproducts.com - few opinions, a kit costs $64.95
>>atlanticinkjet.com - apparently they use (or did use) the highly acclaimed
>>Formulabs ink, a 6-color kit with empty cartridges would be $22+22+18=$62 CAD
>>
>>Has anybody used any of the above with an i9900?
>>
>>--Tom.
>>
>>
>
>
>
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 4:31:23 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Steve Lee wrote:

> I have used Hobbicolors refill kit for my ip8500, extremely happy so far.
> The kit came with 8 3rd party BCI-6 cartridges using plastic screws to
> seal.
> It works effortlessly. Just screw and unscrew. No tricks and no
> gimmick and
> cheap as supposed to. In my opinion those cartridges are the best you can
> get so cheaply. The ink is also fantastic. Colors are so close to OEM
> that
> my wife can not tell which is which without staring at the prints back
> and
> forth for a minute. Still some of the prints there are hardly any
> difference
> at all. I have no problems for 8 moths already. I notice that I rarely
> need to
> run clean cycles. That's a sign of trouble free operation.
>
> You are right about getting only one syringe from their refill kit.
> But if
> you buy the kit you will find that the syringe they provide is
> probably the
> best you can get. It's made in Germany. They said because the syringe
> uses no
> rubber it will last just about forever. Remember ink will eat the
> rubber rather
> quickly. If you use separate syringes and don't rinse them you will
> find them
> stuck in the syringe within a few months. You have to buy another set
> again.
> I found it more practical to use one that will last long although have
> to rinse
> between refills. It may smell like trouble to you. But it actually
> keeps you
> out of trouble from those cheap (should be free) syringes made in China.
>
> Talking about weink, they used to be a cheapy 2 years ago. For really
> no reason
> they skyrocketed their prices more than doubled. They are worse than
> Canon in
> getting your money for ink.


THEY ARE REALLY NOT VERY PROFESSIONAL AND WAY OVERPRICED.

>
> Formulabs is a popular brand name and for that reason will cost you more.
> There are many good reports about Formulabs but there are also a few
> bad ones
> too. Refilling itself can cause some problems if you do not have some
> basic
> knowledge to keep your printers from getting into problems. Formulabs
> should
> be fine except a little pricey although not as crazy as weink.
>
> Steve
>
> Tom wrote:
>
>> I've had my i9900 for over a year now and recently I've been printing
>> a lot more of those 13 X 19 posters so the ink costs are starting get
>> expensive. So far I've only used Canon OEM inks but I'd like to
>> switch to refills to save some money. I realize that the BCI-6
>> cartridges are among the easiest to refill and there are many
>> companies selling refill kits, but because the i9900 uses a different
>> print head with more nozzles and smaller droplets, I'm more worried
>> about clogging than I would be with a lower-end printer.
>>
>> Has anybody with an i9900 had any experience (positive or negative)
>> with any refill kits?
>> I would only refilling the 6 main colors; the red and green get used
>> so little that it doesn't make sense to refill them. I've been
>> looking through all the archived posts on here and so far my list of
>> choices is as follows:
>>
>> inksupply.com - mostly positive opinions, a 6-color kit with empty
>> cartridges is $72.45
>> hobbicolors.com - few opinions, a kit costs $17 but only includes a
>> single syringe that you have to rinse; smells like trouble
>> inkgrabber.com or inkjetmaddness.com - no refills; full cartridges
>> only. Price is either $15 or $20 for a six-pack
>> alotofthings.com - useless since they won't ship to Canada
>> weink.com - mostly positive opinions but $200 is outrageous!
>> inkjetsaver.com - low cost $27 plus $18 for empty cartridges, but I
>> found one article on here that called this a "disaster"
>> inkjetgoodies.com - few opinions, a kit costs $71.64
>> printerfillingstation.com - few opinions, an 8-color kit costs $60
>> but it doesn't come with empty cartridges inkproducts.com - few
>> opinions, a kit costs $64.95
>> atlanticinkjet.com - apparently they use (or did use) the highly
>> acclaimed Formulabs ink, a 6-color kit with empty cartridges would be
>> $22+22+18=$62 CAD
>>
>> Has anybody used any of the above with an i9900?
>>
>> --Tom.
>>
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 3:21:00 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article <j%7Pe.4038$Z87.2047@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>,
inkystinky@oem.com (measekite) wrote:

> UP UR WHOLE WID A HURSHE BAR
>
> >Measekite note: he's looking for people with *experience*, not
> >unsupported, prejudicial opinions.

Sorry! I meant experience of refilling, not doing strange things to
yourself with chocolate bars. I forgot that you have some unusual hobbies.

Jon.
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 3:21:00 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article <588Pe.631$sV7.309@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>,
inkystinky@oem.com (measekite the troll with a caps lock problem) wrote:

> I SPENT A LOT OF TIME RESEARCHING THE PROBLEM AND UNFORTUNATELY CAME UP
> EMPTY HANDED.

There's a typo there, it should be 'empty-headed'.

Jon.
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 7:38:01 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

You are such an idiot. I buy from them, I don't work for them.
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 8:19:56 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Frank wrote:

> Tom wrote:
>
>> I've had my i9900 for over a year now and recently I've been printing
>> a lot more of those 13 X 19 posters so the ink costs are starting get
>> expensive. So far I've only used Canon OEM inks but I'd like to
>> switch to refills to save some money. I realize that the BCI-6
>> cartridges are among the easiest to refill and there are many
>> companies selling refill kits, but because the i9900 uses a different
>> print head with more nozzles and smaller droplets, I'm more worried
>> about clogging than I would be with a lower-end printer.
>>
>> Has anybody with an i9900 had any experience (positive or negative)
>> with any refill kits?
>> I would only refilling the 6 main colors; the red and green get used
>> so little that it doesn't make sense to refill them. I've been
>> looking through all the archived posts on here and so far my list of
>> choices is as follows:
>>
>> inksupply.com - mostly positive opinions, a 6-color kit with empty
>> cartridges is $72.45
>> hobbicolors.com - few opinions, a kit costs $17 but only includes a
>> single syringe that you have to rinse; smells like trouble
>> inkgrabber.com or inkjetmaddness.com - no refills; full cartridges
>> only. Price is either $15 or $20 for a six-pack
>> alotofthings.com - useless since they won't ship to Canada
>> weink.com - mostly positive opinions but $200 is outrageous!
>> inkjetsaver.com - low cost $27 plus $18 for empty cartridges, but I
>> found one article on here that called this a "disaster"
>> inkjetgoodies.com - few opinions, a kit costs $71.64
>> printerfillingstation.com - few opinions, an 8-color kit costs $60
>> but it doesn't come with empty cartridges inkproducts.com - few
>> opinions, a kit costs $64.95
>> atlanticinkjet.com - apparently they use (or did use) the highly
>> acclaimed Formulabs ink, a 6-color kit with empty cartridges would be
>> $22+22+18=$62 CAD
>>
>> Has anybody used any of the above with an i9900?
>>
>> --Tom.
>>
> I've used nothing but after market carts in my i9900 after the oem
> were all used up. I have never had a head clog nor have I (or my
> clients) noticed any color difference at all.
> You have to nuts to continue to use aftermarket inks.
> Frank
August 25, 2005 9:21:14 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

canon_phreak wrote:
> You are such an idiot. I buy from them, I don't work for them.
>
You should kill file the moron. He is beyond stupid.
Frank
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 9:56:51 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I think so.
August 26, 2005 4:56:16 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article <EV6Pe.7856$A%1.7053@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>,
stevelee@hotmail.com wrote:
>I have used Hobbicolors refill kit for my ip8500, extremely happy so far.

This is great info, exactly the kind of reply I was hoping for. I believe the
8500 uses a simmilar print head as the 9900 (8 colors, 2 picoliters) so this
looks very promising.

>The kit came with 8 3rd party BCI-6 cartridges using plastic screws to seal.
>It works effortlessly. Just screw and unscrew. No tricks and no gimmick and
>cheap as supposed to. In my opinion those cartridges are the best you can
>get so cheaply.

Excellent! I was deliberating between spongeless and sponge cartridges, but
for some reason the spongeless ones leave me worried about giant spills if I'm
not careful.

>The ink is also fantastic. Colors are so close to OEM that
>my wife can not tell which is which without staring at the prints back and
>forth for a minute.

Sounds like you use the exact same "test" to evaluate photo quality as I do :) 

>Still some of the prints there are hardly any difference
>at all. I have no problems for 8 moths already. I notice that I rarely need to
>run clean cycles. That's a sign of trouble free operation.

How many refills of the photo-cyan and photo-magenta have you done during
those 8 months? I understand that the cartridges with sponges are are only
good for about 10 refills each. Did you intall all 8 Hobbicolors cartridges
all at once or did you have a mix of these and OEM installed for a while?

>You are right about getting only one syringe from their refill kit. But if
>you buy the kit you will find that the syringe they provide is probably the
>best you can get. It's made in Germany. They said because the syringe uses no
>rubber it will last just about forever. Remember ink will eat the rubber rather
>quickly. If you use separate syringes and don't rinse them you will find them
>stuck in the syringe within a few months. You have to buy another set again.
>I found it more practical to use one that will last long although have to rinse
>between refills. It may smell like trouble to you. But it actually keeps you
>out of trouble from those cheap (should be free) syringes made in China.

Makes sense to me. How critical is the rinsing? Is it just a quick flush with
water or do you need to do repeated cleanings with alcohol to rinse out every
last drop of ink?

>Talking about weink, they used to be a cheapy 2 years ago. For really no reason
>they skyrocketed their prices more than doubled. They are worse than Canon in
>getting your money for ink.

I really don't understand why ink prices vary so much. From the $17 for the
Hobbicolors kit to the $200 for the Weink kit you would think you're getting
at least 10X the amount of ink!

Since I haven't heard any negatives about Hobbicolors yet, and the eBay
feedback for this guy is almost 100% I'm really tempted to try this.

--Tom.
August 26, 2005 5:17:09 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article <N_7Pe.4037$Z87.1287@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>, measekite <inkystinky@oem.com> wrote:
>>Has anybody with an i9900 had any experience (positive or negative) with any
>>refill kits?
>
>IF YOU DARE TAKE A CHANCE ONLY USE NAME BRAND INK. YOU WILL MOST LIKELY
>NOT GET A GOOD VENDOR WHO WILL SELL YOU THAT BECAUSE THEY DO NOT WANT TO
>DISCLOSE WHAT THEY SELL YOU.

I realize that very few refill vendors will tell you who their supplier is,
and many of these vendors can and will change suppliers overnight without
telling their customers. I agree with you that there is no guarantee that
any vendor will provide you with ink that ensures trouble-free operation. I
also agree with you that suppliers can change their formulation overnight
without notifying the vendors; just like the whole Forumulabs magenta
incident.

Any refilling is obviously a gamble. The risk can be anything from a few
off-color photos to a dead print head. Given that the maximum risk is the
price of one print head, and the potential savings are typically higher than
that, it's a gamble that I'm willing to take. Also, by doing a bit of
research and reading testimonials from other users, the chances of getting
stuck with junk ink are much lower.

--Tom.
Anonymous
August 26, 2005 5:17:10 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Tom wrote:
> In article <N_7Pe.4037$Z87.1287@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com>, measekite <inkystinky@oem.com> wrote:
>
>>>Has anybody with an i9900 had any experience (positive or negative) with any
>>>refill kits?
>>
>>IF YOU DARE TAKE A CHANCE ONLY USE NAME BRAND INK. YOU WILL MOST LIKELY
>>NOT GET A GOOD VENDOR WHO WILL SELL YOU THAT BECAUSE THEY DO NOT WANT TO
>>DISCLOSE WHAT THEY SELL YOU.
>
>
> I realize that very few refill vendors will tell you who their supplier is,
> and many of these vendors can and will change suppliers overnight without
> telling their customers. I agree with you that there is no guarantee that
> any vendor will provide you with ink that ensures trouble-free operation. I
> also agree with you that suppliers can change their formulation overnight
> without notifying the vendors; just like the whole Forumulabs magenta
> incident.
>
> Any refilling is obviously a gamble. The risk can be anything from a few
> off-color photos to a dead print head. Given that the maximum risk is the
> price of one print head, and the potential savings are typically higher than
> that, it's a gamble that I'm willing to take. Also, by doing a bit of
> research and reading testimonials from other users, the chances of getting
> stuck with junk ink are much lower.
>
> --Tom.
>
You seem to know what you are talking about. The other guy doesn't.
Jon B.
August 26, 2005 5:43:29 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article <pYROe.297$MN5.225@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net>, "Burt" <sfbjgNOSPAM@pacbell.net> wrote:
>Tom - I've been refilling my i960 (six color) printer with MIS inks and been
>very happy with them. I've used them for almost a year now and had no
>clogs.

I'm assuming you're using the empty cartridges that come with the kit. How
many times have you refilled each cartridge? I've read that the sponge
cartridges are only good for about 10 refills while the spongeless
cartridges last much longer but are more difficult to refill.

> The color match is quite good. I'm in touch with several very
>discerning people who are using Formulabs ink from Alotofthings, but I do
>understand that they don't ship to Canada. One participant, Stevelee,
>posted his successful use of Hobbicolors inks on this NG and I've mentioned
>that in my previous posts.

I admit Hobbicolors does look like a good alternative. However the price of an
8-color 2oz kit is $29 from Hobbicolors and $94 from Inksupply/MIS. Why the
huge difference? Maybe you get what you pay for?

>I'd suggest that you go onto Neil Slade's site and read his info and then
>sign into the Nifty-Stuff Forum and follow the threads that are of interest
>to you. You can ask the same question you posed here and see if you get a
>response. Most of the people on that Forum use Canon printers and most also
>refill their carts. In a very short time that forum has grown to over 500
>participants. There are very helpful people on both this NG and the Nifty
>forum, but the forum delves into more detailed issues on refilling carts.

I've visited the nifty-stuff forum and briefly looked at some the posts.
There's a LOT of information to sift through over there!

--Tom.
August 26, 2005 7:33:57 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Tom - Before the Nifty Stuff site was up I emailed Neil Slade a few times
with questions about refilling. I'm sure he was much relieved to see the
Nifty site start as much of the info he repeatedly gave to individuals is
either on his site or on the Nifty forum. I'm glad you went onto that
forum. As you get into refilling you wll go back and many or your questions
will be answered.

At Neil's suggestion I started refilling with MIS inks directly into the OEM
carts that came with my printer. The PM and PC are used up fastest,
followed usually by yellow and then magenta and cyan. I know that MIS is
compatable enough that I didn't have any problems and the colors were close
enough that I couldn't tell the difference. Read Neil's technique. He
refills "on the fly". I did that initially and It seemed to work out OK.
Here's how - 1) put on rubber gloves 2) open the ink container and have it
propped up in a place where you can't accidently knock it over 3) pull about
10 cc of ink into the syringe 4) take the cart out of the printer 5) put
your finger against the ink outlet port to seal it and open the fill hole 6)
fill to within a few mm. of the top of the reservoir 7) seal the fill hole
8) let the exit port drip till it stops 9) blot it against a paper towel
that is flat on the table to avoid touching the filter at the outlet port
10) replace the cart. 11) put the excess ink from the syringe back into the
container and close it. The cart is out of the printer for not much more
time than it would take to replace it with a new OEM cart.

There was conjecture on the Nifty forum that repeated removal and
replacement of carts for refilling could contribute to the filter and sponge
near it getting dried out and clogged. One person on the forum, Grandad35,
jerry-rigged a little device that he uses to backflush carts when they show
any sign of diminished feeding. Hooks it up to his hot water tap. There
are a few steps and you can read it if you really want to get the most
milage out of each cart. Grandad says that it takes him about two minutes
to do the whole process.

I don't do the refill on the fly any longer. I have two i960 printers and
three sets of carts. I replace the entire set every time one cart is down
to about 3/4 empty in the reservoir. It is best to visually monitor the ink
levels and not rely on the Canon software to show the carts as near empty.
By topping them off this way you don't let the sponge dry out as much and
you will extend the cart life for refilling. I then refill the set I've
removed and seal the exit ports with the original orange cap (OEM cart)
rubber banded on or non-eom cap that came with the cart originally. I also
put tape over the air vent hole to prevent evaporation and put the carts in
a sealed food container.

It sounds like a lot of steps but it really goes quickly. I do all of this
at my desk with a large, shallow plastic tray under it all to confine any
small drops of ink or the possibility of a larger spill. (hasn't happened
yet in a year of refilling)

Creating the fill hole and then sealing it is a critical step. There is a
long thread on the Nifty forum on this subject. People have used hot glue
guns, wax, a dab of silicone sealer, etc. Tape doesn't really assure you of
a good seal and you can get leaks into the printer. I'm presently using
very short stainless steel self tapping cap head screws with tight fitting O
rings. The Hobbicolor carts with the plastic screws look really good. I
have a set of these carts and will try them soon. The reports I've seen on
the spongeless carts are not good for refilling.

If you are an absolute color purist you would do well to fill virgin carts
with the ink you purchase and not mix them with OEM. I did mix them and
couldn't tell the difference. If you do a paper/ink color profile for your
printer, however, you will want to only use the ink that you profile.

The last piece of advice is probably not necessary. Don't pay any attention
to Measekite's rants. No one understands his motivation for spewing
disinformation and invective. Most of us have killfiled him and don't
respond any longer.
Anonymous
August 26, 2005 7:48:00 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article <OBuPe.2615$sw6.1813@fed1read05>, jonb@nowherespam.com (Jon B.)
wrote:

> You seem to know what you are talking about. The other guy doesn't.

That easy to spot, huh? :-)

Jon.
August 26, 2005 7:53:59 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Tom - about the syringes. The inks are totally water soluble and wash out
very easily. No alcohol necessary. A few pumps of the syringe after
washing will expell most of the water and you can then do the next color. I
prefer a syringe for each color as the process goes faster for me when
filling several carts. I then wash them out all at once. I got a handful
of them from a dentist friend. Be sure to dull the needle tips if you get
medical syringes. A few swipes on a carberundum stone will do it.

"(snip)

>>You are right about getting only one syringe from their refill kit. But if
>>you buy the kit you will find that the syringe they provide is probably
>>the
>>best you can get. It's made in Germany. They said because the syringe uses
>>no
>>rubber it will last just about forever. Remember ink will eat the rubber
>>rather
>>quickly. If you use separate syringes and don't rinse them you will find
>>them
>>stuck in the syringe within a few months. You have to buy another set
>>again.
>>I found it more practical to use one that will last long although have to
>>rinse
>>between refills. It may smell like trouble to you. But it actually keeps
>>you
>>out of trouble from those cheap (should be free) syringes made in China.
>
> Makes sense to me. How critical is the rinsing? Is it just a quick flush
> with
> water or do you need to do repeated cleanings with alcohol to rinse out
> every
> last drop of ink?
>
>>(snip)
Anonymous
August 26, 2005 11:19:32 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Inexpensive disposable syringes are readily available (in most states) at
any pharmacy or can be ordered from most ink vendors, but at a much higher
price. Like Burt said, get the blunt tipped ones if possible. I've used the
same set for several years without any problems. However, if you don't want
to use syringes at all there is an alternative I've come up with. For a
picture and description of a refilling setup I made, take a look on the
Nifty-stuff forum. http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=433

As to flushing out a syringe, all I do is fill the syringe with water and
then push it back out. Three times and it's completely clean. Takes about 10
or 12 seconds total.
--
Ron

"Burt" <sfbjgNOSPAM@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:rnwPe.723$5k1.19@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
> Tom - about the syringes. The inks are totally water soluble and wash out
> very easily. No alcohol necessary. A few pumps of the syringe after
> washing will expell most of the water and you can then do the next color.
> I prefer a syringe for each color as the process goes faster for me when
> filling several carts. I then wash them out all at once. I got a handful
> of them from a dentist friend. Be sure to dull the needle tips if you get
> medical syringes. A few swipes on a carberundum stone will do it.
>
> "(snip)
>
>>>You are right about getting only one syringe from their refill kit. But
>>>if
>>>you buy the kit you will find that the syringe they provide is probably
>>>the
>>>best you can get. It's made in Germany. They said because the syringe
>>>uses no
>>>rubber it will last just about forever. Remember ink will eat the rubber
>>>rather
>>>quickly. If you use separate syringes and don't rinse them you will find
>>>them
>>>stuck in the syringe within a few months. You have to buy another set
>>>again.
>>>I found it more practical to use one that will last long although have to
>>>rinse
>>>between refills. It may smell like trouble to you. But it actually keeps
>>>you
>>>out of trouble from those cheap (should be free) syringes made in China.
>>
>> Makes sense to me. How critical is the rinsing? Is it just a quick flush
>> with
>> water or do you need to do repeated cleanings with alcohol to rinse out
>> every
>> last drop of ink?
>>
>>>(snip)
>
>
August 26, 2005 7:21:22 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

>most of the ink they sell are pigmented and those are only for limited
>epson printers. they sell their ink with the niagra cfs and there have
>been reported problems.
>
>the ink the sell which they claim on their website is a no namefilled in
>a claimed compatible cart. The price they charge is 16 cents less than
>the real deal canon oem that you can get at costco. you are given
>people on this ng a line of <shinola>
>>Prite-rite by all respects is a brand.
>gimme a break
>Grasping at straws.
> You are not listening. Go To all of the big box stores and see what
> there is.

With all due respect, who's grasping at straws? I'm offering a
counter argument that's pretty good based on my limited research. So
either you are blind, ignorant, or lie.

You now say just because a manufacturer doesn't support canon as well
as Epson.... or more genericly a piezo based printhead than a thermal
it's not a brand? Or just because it's not carried by the big box
stores that it's not a brand? I would only assume that Asus, MSI,
Biostar, Soyo couldn't be called brands either because their products
were not until recently offered in big box stores.

Visit a Target, Walmart, Walgreens, London Drugs and look in their ink
section. See what you find... then come back and say there are no
brands.

Hell, even Canon... they took forever to get into printing. Rather
than go through the bother and effort to find their own distribution
channels they took their laser engines and sold them to everyone one in
their neighbor. Still do.

Media Street is by your own definition a brand. They manufacturer,
formulate, distribute via multiable channels. You can buy their
product in indy computer shops or mainstream camera shops. Print-rite
is by your own defination a brand. Any counter arugument about the
quality of their products is beside the point. You have been informed
that your statement about "there are no brands" was incorrect... so one
can only assume that you choose to continue to lie.

Now whether or not to choose a big name brand compay or cottage
industry is a choice that someone has to make, and is not for you to
decide for them. But the statement "there are no brands" is a 100%
wrong. There are brands, and logos, and distribution channels all over
the place. But all of this is beside the point because the big
question, the big question is..... who sells a product... is it a good
product.

What's sad is I support your existance in this group. We need someone
like your self to play devil's advocate... someone who would
independently evaluate many of the 3rd party venders (as you pointed
out name brand ink costs just as much as OEM ink), and list "good
reasons" why one should not consider it. But somone like you need to
approach the subject with honesty and not like a 2 bit spammer.

The basic argument is as follows, assuming canon

- Use of 3rd party inks in canon printers may affect the life of the
printhead-
True statement. They use a disposable thermal technology
-The cost of 3rd party inks from most venders is so low that if you
loose 1/8 the life of your printhead still costs less-

True statement

-Use of 3rd party inks will affect color rendering-
True Statement
-This affect can be compensated for, or desired-
True Statement

-Use of 3rd party inks will affect print life-
True statement
-Chromalife is only rated 20years under glass under normal conditions,
chromalife100 only 25 years according to wilhelm research, and only if
using premium canon papers. This can easily be improved upon, or for
non archival appliccations it doesn't matter.

If you approach your crucade with honesty.... integrity... you'll gain
credibility. But unfortunatly you are at the end of the day a trolling
spammer for canon.
Anonymous
August 26, 2005 8:27:55 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Frank wrote:

> canon_phreak wrote:
>
>> You are such an idiot. I buy from them, I don't work for them.
>>
> You should kill file the moron Frank . I am beyond stupid.
>
Anonymous
August 26, 2005 8:29:40 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Tom wrote:

>In article <EV6Pe.7856$A%1.7053@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>,
>stevelee@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
>>I have used Hobbicolors refill kit for my ip8500, extremely happy so far.
>>
>>
>
>This is great info, exactly the kind of reply I was hoping for. I believe the
>8500 uses a simmilar print head as the 9900 (8 colors, 2 picoliters) so this
>looks very promising.
>
>
>
>>The kit came with 8 3rd party BCI-6 cartridges using plastic screws to seal.
>>It works effortlessly. Just screw and unscrew. No tricks and no gimmick and
>>cheap as supposed to. In my opinion those cartridges are the best you can
>>get so cheaply.
>>
>>
>
>Excellent! I was deliberating between spongeless and sponge cartridges, but
>for some reason the spongeless ones leave me worried about giant spills if I'm
>not careful.
>
>
>
>>The ink is also fantastic. Colors are so close to OEM that
>>my wife can not tell which is which without staring at the prints back and
>>forth for a minute.
>>
>>
>
>Sounds like you use the exact same "test" to evaluate photo quality as I do :) 
>
>
>
>>Still some of the prints there are hardly any difference
>>at all. I have no problems for 8 moths already. I notice that I rarely need to
>>run clean cycles. That's a sign of trouble free operation.
>>
>>
>
>How many refills of the photo-cyan and photo-magenta have you done during
>those 8 months? I understand that the cartridges with sponges are are only
>good for about 10 refills each. Did you intall all 8 Hobbicolors cartridges
>all at once or did you have a mix of these and OEM installed for a while?
>
>
>
>>You are right about getting only one syringe from their refill kit. But if
>>you buy the kit you will find that the syringe they provide is probably the
>>best you can get. It's made in Germany. They said because the syringe uses no
>>rubber it will last just about forever. Remember ink will eat the rubber rather
>>quickly. If you use separate syringes and don't rinse them you will find them
>>stuck in the syringe within a few months. You have to buy another set again.
>>I found it more practical to use one that will last long although have to rinse
>>between refills. It may smell like trouble to you. But it actually keeps you
>>out of trouble from those cheap (should be free) syringes made in China.
>>
>>
>
>Makes sense to me. How critical is the rinsing? Is it just a quick flush with
>water or do you need to do repeated cleanings with alcohol to rinse out every
>last drop of ink?
>
>
>
>>Talking about weink, they used to be a cheapy 2 years ago. For really no reason
>>they skyrocketed their prices more than doubled. They are worse than Canon in
>>getting your money for ink.
>>
>>
>
>I really don't understand why ink prices vary so much. From the $17 for the
>Hobbicolors kit to the $200 for the WeStink kit you would think you're getting
>at least 10X the amount of ink!
>
>Since I haven't heard any negatives about Hobbicolors yet, and the eBay
>feedback for this guy is almost 100% I'm really tempted to try this.
>
>--Tom.
>
>
Anonymous
August 26, 2005 8:42:41 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

FOTOFREEK IS A NIFTY MODERATOR. BURT IS FOTOFREEK. HE IS A CHURCH LEADER.

Burt wrote:

>Tom - Before the Nifty Stuff site was up I emailed Neil Slade a few times
>with questions about refilling.
>
>
Anonymous
August 26, 2005 8:43:44 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Burt wrote:

>Tom - about the syringes. The inks are totally water soluble and wash out
>very easily. No alcohol necessary. A few pumps of the syringe
>

THAT IS ALL THE OLD FART CAN PUMP.
Anonymous
August 26, 2005 9:05:48 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

zakezuke wrote:
>>most of the ink they sell are pigmented and those are only for limited
>>epson printers. they sell their ink with the niagra cfs and there have
>>been reported problems.
>>
>>the ink the sell which they claim on their website is a no namefilled in
>>a claimed compatible cart. The price they charge is 16 cents less than
>>the real deal canon oem that you can get at costco. you are given
>>people on this ng a line of <shinola>
>>
>>>Prite-rite by all respects is a brand.
>>
>>gimme a break
>>Grasping at straws.
>>You are not listening. Go To all of the big box stores and see what
>>there is.
>
>
> With all due respect, who's grasping at straws? I'm offering a
> counter argument that's pretty good based on my limited research. So
> either you are blind, ignorant, or lie.
>
> You now say just because a manufacturer doesn't support canon as well
> as Epson.... or more genericly a piezo based printhead than a thermal
> it's not a brand? Or just because it's not carried by the big box
> stores that it's not a brand? I would only assume that Asus, MSI,
> Biostar, Soyo couldn't be called brands either because their products
> were not until recently offered in big box stores.
>
> Visit a Target, Walmart, Walgreens, London Drugs and look in their ink
> section. See what you find... then come back and say there are no
> brands.
>
> Hell, even Canon... they took forever to get into printing. Rather
> than go through the bother and effort to find their own distribution
> channels they took their laser engines and sold them to everyone one in
> their neighbor. Still do.
>
> Media Street is by your own definition a brand. They manufacturer,
> formulate, distribute via multiable channels. You can buy their
> product in indy computer shops or mainstream camera shops. Print-rite
> is by your own defination a brand. Any counter arugument about the
> quality of their products is beside the point. You have been informed
> that your statement about "there are no brands" was incorrect... so one
> can only assume that you choose to continue to lie.
>
> Now whether or not to choose a big name brand compay or cottage
> industry is a choice that someone has to make, and is not for you to
> decide for them. But the statement "there are no brands" is a 100%
> wrong. There are brands, and logos, and distribution channels all over
> the place. But all of this is beside the point because the big
> question, the big question is..... who sells a product... is it a good
> product.
>
> What's sad is I support your existance in this group. We need someone
> like your self to play devil's advocate... someone who would
> independently evaluate many of the 3rd party venders (as you pointed
> out name brand ink costs just as much as OEM ink), and list "good
> reasons" why one should not consider it. But somone like you need to
> approach the subject with honesty and not like a 2 bit spammer.
>
> The basic argument is as follows, assuming canon
>
> - Use of 3rd party inks in canon printers may affect the life of the
> printhead-
> True statement. They use a disposable thermal technology
> -The cost of 3rd party inks from most venders is so low that if you
> loose 1/8 the life of your printhead still costs less-
>
> True statement
>
> -Use of 3rd party inks will affect color rendering-
> True Statement
> -This affect can be compensated for, or desired-
> True Statement
>
> -Use of 3rd party inks will affect print life-
> True statement
> -Chromalife is only rated 20years under glass under normal conditions,
> chromalife100 only 25 years according to wilhelm research, and only if
> using premium canon papers. This can easily be improved upon, or for
> non archival appliccations it doesn't matter.
>
> If you approach your crucade with honesty.... integrity... you'll gain
> credibility. But unfortunatly you are at the end of the day a trolling
> spammer for canon.
>

I see that you have presented a logical, factually based and
intellectually honest rebuttal to mr measekite. I wonder what the reply
will be like.
Jon B.
August 26, 2005 11:58:46 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

>>You now say just because a manufacturer doesn't support canon as well
>>as Epson.... or more genericly a piezo based printhead than a thermal
>>it's not a brand? Or just because it's not carried by the big box
>>stores that it's not a brand? I would only assume that Asus, MSI,
>>Biostar, Soyo couldn't be called brands either because their products
>>were not until recently offered in big box stores.

> they are. and tese brands are sold by many resellers. no the same with ink

Funny. You wouldn't have called them brands 5 years ago before they
were sold in bigbox stores such as CompUSA. If you wanted Asus, MSI,
Biostar, Soyo, or any other big name motherboard OEM you had to resort
to indy computer shops to get them, or mail order from big warehouses.
That is a fact. It was only circa 2001 or so you started to see these
products sold in big box stores, and even then limited to just a
handful. But it doesn't matter because the whole upgrade industry is
for tinkers and weirdoes... the exact same sort of people you have no
respect for.

Asus is the best example. They were and are an OEM for computer
builders. Their stuff at first wasn't branded at all... they were just
products that system builders shoved in a box and got shipped off
including some of the bigboys. Taiwan outfits like Asus produced clone
motherboards for IBM compatibles. They were not IBM, they were not
Compaq, they were not even a brand, they were just a board
manufacturing facility. But it was through these companies in Taiwan
that the clone industry started, and just like then there were people
that would scream hand over fist that you should only buy a respected
named brand like IBM. After all who better than IBM to make an IBM.
Others stood by Compaq, being the first company who cloned the IBM
bios. And how dare anyone consider one of the junk builders like
Gateway, Norstar, or Dell. They were after all mystery boxes... who
knows what was inside them. But the fact remained that an IBM or even
a Compaq would cost you over $2000... where you could get a clone for
under $1000... and as the years when on thanks in no small part to
Award, AMI and Phoenix.... there were so many clones that it was the
clone and not the original that became the standard... bringing us to
today... that Compaq now owned by HP you can buy in Costco has an Asus
motherboard in it. Not to speak of the fact that for a good solid 10
years or so their products among others were sold branded in boxes in a
number of retail shops.

Oh but I see... it doesn't have distributed to a big box store does it
in order to qualify under your definition of brand.

Hassleblands, camera shops, indy computer shops, Walmart, Walgreens,
London drugs, bartell drugs, Longs drugsoffice depot, office max,
staples.

Now I would define a brand as a product that's sold under a single
label which people can reconize. Could be Widgets from Tawian...
bought by Acme and distrubted to whom ever.

Using your own defination.... any product that is made, sold under a
label to retail shops is a brand. Well... love to break it to you but
the examples I sited among others qualify 100%.... meaning you are
either blind, ignorant, or lying.

> >Media Street is by your own definition a brand. They manufacturer,
> >formulate, distribute via multiable channels.

> bullshavic

Not bullshavic... you set up the defination and I knew of two that meet
with you own requirements. I believe Media Street is long island
based where they forumlate, manufacturer, and distrubite ink. Oddly
enough, many people feel the same way you do about cottage industry. I
mean it's hard to believe that a bunch of lasermonks.com could get
together and basicly refill/recycle products that match that of
tradtional companies. So we have folks like MediaStreet... who
understand that people respect a tradtional corp. And their products
are distribted by normal distribution channels to established
retailers. I for example if I so desired could go to R&K photo, or
Glazer's Camera Supply and buy their papers and inks.

Unless you are telling me Kodak, Fuji, Illford, Oriental, Kentmere,
Afga, Poloraid are not brands. All my years with photography... I
respected many of these companys, but you come along and tell me these
are not brands of papers just because they are not sold in big box
stores? But wait.. they are.

> > Now whether or not to choose a big name brand compay or cottage
> > industry is a choice that someone has to make, and is not for you to
> > decide for them. But the statement "there are no brands" is a 100%
> > wrong. There are brands, and logos, and distribution channels all over
> > the place

> you r nuts

You could be correct... i'm trying to argue a simple point with you
where others have tried and failed. Could could be defined as nuts.
But that doesn't change the fact that on the issue of "there are no
brands of aftermarket ink" is wrong to say the least, a flat out lie to
say the worst. I freely admit that in the refill market the vast
majority of venders are small time mom and pop organizations who got it
into their heads to buy bulk ink and inject it into spent carts and
sell it for about 25% of new value... or better yet buying empty tanks
in bulk and selling new tanks. And many of these businesses are not
very professional.. this is very true. And a good percent don't
disclose what they put in tanks or bottles... why would they want to?
After all making 400% profit why would you tell anyone where you are
getting your supply from. Some on the other hand do... and better
still there are Brands sold with logos in retail stores. This is a
fact.

But in the end game... all that really matters is three things.
1. Who sells ink? (i.e. vender)
2. How much is it?
3. Is it any good?

Anything else might be relivent to some, but not all users. It's
important you learn to respect an individual's right to choose. Just
as we made a choice back in the 1980s... whether to go with Atari,
Commodore, Apple, IBM, or some other guys. And in any scenero where
companies are in competition... the consumer wins.
Anonymous
August 27, 2005 5:28:38 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

zakezuke wrote:

>>most of the ink they sell are pigmented and those are only for limited
>>epson printers. they sell their ink with the niagra cfs and there have
>>been reported problems.
>>
>>the ink the sell which they claim on their website is a no namefilled in
>>a claimed compatible cart. The price they charge is 16 cents less than
>>the real deal canon oem that you can get at costco. you are given
>>people on this ng a line of <shinola>
>>
>>
>>>Prite-rite by all respects is a brand.
>>>
>>>
>>gimme a break
>>Grasping at straws.
>>You are not listening. Go To all of the big box stores and see what
>>there is.
>>
>>
>
>With all due respect, who's grasping at straws? I'm offering a
>counter argument that's pretty good based on my limited research. So
>either you are blind, ignorant, or lie.
>
>You now say just because a manufacturer doesn't support canon as well
>as Epson.... or more genericly a piezo based printhead than a thermal
>it's not a brand? Or just because it's not carried by the big box
>stores that it's not a brand? I would only assume that Asus, MSI,
>Biostar, Soyo couldn't be called brands either because their products
>were not until recently offered in big box stores.
>
>
THEY ARE. AND TESE BRANDS ARE SOLD BY MANY RESELLERS. NO THE SAME WITH
INK.

>Visit a Target, Walmart, Walgreens, London Drugs and look in their ink
>section. See what you find... then come back and say there are no
>brands.
>
>Hell, even Canon... they took forever to get into printing. Rather
>than go through the bother and effort to find their own distribution
>channels they took their laser engines and sold them to everyone one in
>their neighbor. Still do.
>
>Media Street is by your own definition a brand. They manufacturer,
>formulate, distribute via multiable channels.
>
BULLSHIT

>You can buy their
>product in indy computer shops or mainstream camera shops. Print-rite
>is by your own defination a brand.
>
MORE BULLSHIT

>Any counter arugument about the
>quality of their products is beside the point. You have been informed
>that your statement about "there are no brands" was incorrect... so one
>can only assume that you choose to continue to lie.
>
>
NOE THE HORSESHIT

>Now whether or not to choose a big name brand compay or cottage
>industry is a choice that someone has to make, and is not for you to
>decide for them. But the statement "there are no brands" is a 100%
>wrong. There are brands, and logos, and distribution channels all over
>the place.
>
YOU R NUTS

>But all of this is beside the point because the big
>question, the big question is..... who sells a product... is it a good
>product.
>
>What's sad is I support your existance in this group. We need someone
>like your self to play devil's advocate... someone who would
>independently evaluate many of the 3rd party venders (as you pointed
>out name brand ink costs just as much as OEM ink), and list "good
>reasons" why one should not consider it. But somone like you need to
>approach the subject with honesty and not like a 2 bit spammer.
>
>The basic argument is as follows, assuming canon
>
>- Use of 3rd party inks in canon printers may affect the life of the
>printhead-
>True statement. They use a disposable thermal technology
>-The cost of 3rd party inks from most venders is so low that if you
>loose 1/8 the life of your printhead still costs less-
>
>True statement
>
>-Use of 3rd party inks will affect color rendering-
>True Statement
>-This affect can be compensated for, or desired-
>True Statement
>
>-Use of 3rd party inks will affect print life-
>True statement
>-Chromalife is only rated 20years under glass under normal conditions,
>chromalife100 only 25 years according to wilhelm research, and only if
>using premium canon papers. This can easily be improved upon, or for
>non archival appliccations it doesn't matter.
>
>If you approach your crucade with honesty.... integrity... you'll gain
>credibility. But unfortunatly you are at the end of the day a trolling
>spammer for canon.
>
>
>
August 27, 2005 8:06:07 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

> > Media Street is by your own definition a brand. They manufacturer,
> > formulate, distribute via multiable channels.

> bullshavick

I thought i'd add that you can find a dealer of the media street brand
your self from the main page.

http://www.mediastreet.com/index.html#dealer

For example near 92704
there is Samy's Camera, The Camera Company, Paul's Photo, Inc.

near 07932
Unique Photo

near 10014
Photo Gizzmo, Inc, Adorama

Unless you tell me these are not retail stores that sell brand name
products. Granted these are mostly small specality shops to medium
sized franchises.. not your big box shop... but never the less they are
retail stores that sell a product by a company who formulates,
manufacturers, and sells ink.

I'm not saying anything about the quality of their products... not
trying to promote these guys in anyway. Only using them as an example
of brand name 3rd party ink sold in retail stores who meet your three
requirements.

You can either be a man and admit you are wrong... or be a fool and
ignore a blatent fact.

You may continue to correct people and say that MIS is a vender label
and not a brand. You might be right, I don't know for a fact inksupply
offers Image Specalist's inks. They could be for canon WJ1020 WJ1008
WJ2032 WJ6053 WJ797 but I don't know for a fact that they are. But you
may not continue to say there are no brands... there are.
August 27, 2005 5:33:05 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

>>bullshavick

> ==========bullshavick==============
> ==========bullshavick==============

Just because you kick and scream doesn't make it any less so. I guess
I am nuts... I thought I could present a rational argument against your
assertion that their are no brands. Being a Stanford MBA I would have
thought you understood these concepts.

What I find remarkable is there are cases where I don't feel you are
wrong... and even agree with you in some cases. Yet somehow you've
flaged me as a spreader of bullshavick.

Fact: The Canon head has a limited life. You can not deny that, the
duty cycle is published and is equal to the printer's duty cycle.
Fact: There are name brand 3rd party inks you can buy in retail
stores. Not that the web enviroment isn't any less credible source.
Fact: Just because someone disagrees with you don't make them part of
a great conspiricy.

I support any rational, trustworthy, truthful dialog that promots the
spread of acurrate information on products. The problem is your
acting entirely on faith.
Anonymous
August 27, 2005 8:07:22 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

He like long posts so he can piss in the wind. Most people do not read
it in entirety.

zakezuke wrote:

>>>You now say just because a manufacturer doesn't support canon as well
>>>as Epson.... or more genericly a piezo based printhead than a thermal
>>>it's not a brand? Or just because it's not carried by the big box
>>>stores that it's not a brand? I would only assume that Asus, MSI,
>>>Biostar, Soyo couldn't be called brands either because their products
>>>were not until recently offered in big box stores.
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>>they are. and tese brands are sold by many resellers. no the same with ink
>>
>>
>
>Funny. You wouldn't have called them brands 5 years ago before they
>were sold in bigbox stores such as CompUSA. If you wanted Asus, MSI,
>Biostar, Soyo, or any other big name motherboard OEM you had to resort
>to indy computer shops to get them, or mail order from big warehouses.
>That is a fact. It was only circa 2001 or so you started to see these
>products sold in big box stores, and even then limited to just a
>handful. But it doesn't matter because the whole upgrade industry is
>for tinkers and weirdoes... the exact same sort of people you have no
>respect for.
>
>Asus is the best example. They were and are an OEM for computer
>builders. Their stuff at first wasn't branded at all... they were just
>products that system builders shoved in a box and got shipped off
>including some of the bigboys. Taiwan outfits like Asus produced clone
>motherboards for IBM compatibles. They were not IBM, they were not
>Compaq, they were not even a brand, they were just a board
>manufacturing facility. But it was through these companies in Taiwan
>that the clone industry started, and just like then there were people
>that would scream hand over fist that you should only buy a respected
>named brand like IBM. After all who better than IBM to make an IBM.
>Others stood by Compaq, being the first company who cloned the IBM
>bios. And how dare anyone consider one of the junk builders like
>Gateway, Norstar, or Dell. They were after all mystery boxes... who
>knows what was inside them. But the fact remained that an IBM or even
>a Compaq would cost you over $2000... where you could get a clone for
>under $1000... and as the years when on thanks in no small part to
>Award, AMI and Phoenix.... there were so many clones that it was the
>clone and not the original that became the standard... bringing us to
>today... that Compaq now owned by HP you can buy in Costco has an Asus
>motherboard in it. Not to speak of the fact that for a good solid 10
>years or so their products among others were sold branded in boxes in a
>number of retail shops.
>
>Oh but I see... it doesn't have distributed to a big box store does it
>in order to qualify under your definition of brand.
>
>Hassleblands, camera shops, indy computer shops, Walmart, Walgreens,
>London drugs, bartell drugs, Longs drugsoffice depot, office max,
>staples.
>
>Now I would define a brand as a product that's sold under a single
>label which people can reconize. Could be Widgets from Tawian...
>bought by Acme and distrubted to whom ever.
>
>Using your own defination.... any product that is made, sold under a
>label to retail shops is a brand. Well... love to break it to you but
>the examples I sited among others qualify 100%.... meaning you are
>either blind, ignorant, or lying.
>
>
>
>>>Media Street is by your own definition a brand. They manufacturer,
>>>formulate, distribute via multiable channels.
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>>bullshavic
>>
>>
>
>Not bullshavic... you set up the defination and I knew of two that meet
>with you own requirements. I believe Media Street is long island
>based where they forumlate, manufacturer, and distrubite ink. Oddly
>enough, many people feel the same way you do about cottage industry. I
>mean it's hard to believe that a bunch of lasermonks.com could get
>together and basicly refill/recycle products that match that of
>tradtional companies. So we have folks like MediaStreet... who
>understand that people respect a tradtional corp. And their products
>are distribted by normal distribution channels to established
>retailers. I for example if I so desired could go to R&K photo, or
>Glazer's Camera Supply and buy their papers and inks.
>
>Unless you are telling me Kodak, Fuji, Illford, Oriental, Kentmere,
>Afga, Poloraid are not brands. All my years with photography... I
>respected many of these companys, but you come along and tell me these
>are not brands of papers just because they are not sold in big box
>stores? But wait.. they are.
>
>
>
>>>Now whether or not to choose a big name brand compay or cottage
>>>industry is a choice that someone has to make, and is not for you to
>>>decide for them. But the statement "there are no brands" is a 100%
>>>wrong. There are brands, and logos, and distribution channels all over
>>>the place
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>>you r nuts
>>
>>
>
>You could be correct... i'm trying to argue a simple point with you
>where others have tried and failed. Could could be defined as nuts.
>But that doesn't change the fact that on the issue of "there are no
>brands of aftermarket ink" is wrong to say the least, a flat out lie to
>say the worst. I freely admit that in the refill market the vast
>majority of venders are small time mom and pop organizations who got it
>into their heads to buy bulk ink and inject it into spent carts and
>sell it for about 25% of new value... or better yet buying empty tanks
>in bulk and selling new tanks. And many of these businesses are not
>very professional.. this is very true. And a good percent don't
>disclose what they put in tanks or bottles... why would they want to?
>After all making 400% profit why would you tell anyone where you are
>getting your supply from. Some on the other hand do... and better
>still there are Brands sold with logos in retail stores. This is a
>fact.
>
>But in the end game... all that really matters is three things.
> 1. Who sells ink? (i.e. vender)
> 2. How much is it?
> 3. Is it any good?
>
>Anything else might be relivent to some, but not all users. It's
>important you learn to respect an individual's right to choose. Just
>as we made a choice back in the 1980s... whether to go with Atari,
>Commodore, Apple, IBM, or some other guys. And in any scenero where
>companies are in competition... the consumer wins.
>
>
>
August 27, 2005 10:05:20 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

> BTW - I access this newsgroup through my ISP newsgroup service and use MS
> outlook express as the NG reader. You can do several things with outlook
> express to make someone's posts disappear, get marked as read immediately,
> etc.

I "could" do that, but that would require effort... newsgroups while a
default offering are not offered by default. Besides for the most part
i'm happy with usenet. There was a nice german newsfeed that was free
and easy to signup for but it's no longer free and google groups is.
Besides, why should I change the way I do things for one person... i'm
lazy.

> The spammers and virus kooks can use
> email address "mining" software to pick up all the email addresses in the NG
> and barrage you with junk emails.

Agreed, best to use a dummy address, web based site, that sorta thing.

> You will only become "fun" to him if you continue to try to reason with him
> and then appear irritated with his responses. As you've seen, he takes
> great pleasure in trying to run people he disagrees with off of the NG. A
> real creep.

Well I refuse to call him a creep you see. I would suspect that is the
joy zone for such trolls. I disagree with him but he really doesn't
bug me. I'm all for "someone" playing devils advocate... we all can
get rather fanatical in our beliefs. I'm sure he'll continue to
harrass me even though i'm rather moderate on the scale of inks... and
if this gives him joy... great. Anyone else can just kill file the
user if they so desire.
August 28, 2005 12:36:26 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

>>Fact: The Canon head has a limited life.
>it usually will last more people the life of the printer

What evidence do you have to support the majority of users will
experence printhead failure before printer failure. Are you saying the
printer is so fragile that it will not outlast a thermal head made on a
silicon wafer?

The duty cycle of the printer is rated as the same duty cycle for the
head... 18,000 pages of which i'm sure I broke down for you before but
I'll do so again....

Black 1,500 character pattern 7,200 pages
Color A4, 7.5% duty per color pattern 5,400 pages
A4, photo, borderless printing 300 pages
4 x 6, photo, borderless printing 3,600 pages
Postcard, photo, borderless printing 1,500 pages

Given the fact that photo printing is becoming more popular... don't
you honestly feel that when printing at 50% to 75% yield that the print
head will be more likely to give out sooner? Let us try again...

Assuming 1500 characters/page represents a 2.5% yield

(x40)Black 100% yield character pattern 180 pages
(x13.3)Color A4, 100% duty per color pattern 405pages
(x) ?A4, photo, borderless printing 300 pages
....(x) ?4 x 6, photo, borderless printing 3,600 pages (((assuming full
letter)
....(x3.8915) = 925
.....(x) ?Postcard, photo, borderless printing 1,500 pages
.....(x6) =256

Let's be reasonable and cut down the % yield to 50%

360 1/2 yield black
---------------------------
810 Full letter yield
925
256
-----
1991 pages 50%ish yield.

Given the fact that photo printing uses yields in excess of 2.5%, 5%,
and 10%... and heck, and given the fact that the printhead officaly has
a limited lifespan, don't you think you should modifiy your statement,
"it usually will last more people the life of the printer". Dont get
me wrong... if you have any evidence to support your statement i'd be
happy to listen. But let's be fair here

about 2400 pages of text assuming 1500 = 1/3 of a page (very
reasonable)
1991 pages 50%ish yield.

If your statement is true then the printer is so poorly designed that
the mechanics that feed the paper and move the head won't last more
than 4 reems of paper. I can not accept that as a fact.

Fact: The printhead life on the canon is limited - this fact is
supported by the offical numbers canon publishes and the fact that the
head can be removed and replaced.

Wild assumption: The printhead will usually outlast the printer. A
statement that isn't backed up by the numbers, and doesn't match
reality.

Which brings us to an intersting point. Given the fact that photo
printing uses higher yields than general printing, and given the fact
that some users to experence head failure... isn't it more valid to
assume it's the head and not the medium you put in it is a far more
likely explanation to printhead failure? Unless users who complain
about printhead failure, even ones to state they are using OEM ink are
a figment of my imagination.
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 12:58:50 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article <L29Qe.1074$5k1.405@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>,
inkystinky@oem.com says...
> >
> >Fact: The Canon head has a limited life.
> >
> IT USUALLY WILL LAST MOST PEOPLE THE LIFE OF THE PRINTER
>
Of course it will, 'cause when it fails, the life of the printer is
over, since a replacement costs 75% of the price of a new printer, and
comes with no ink cartridges.
August 28, 2005 4:24:52 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Zake - a completely reasonable post. Let's see if he gives it his usual
obnoxious response.

BTW - I access this newsgroup through my ISP newsgroup service and use MS
outlook express as the NG reader. You can do several things with outlook
express to make someone's posts disappear, get marked as read immediately,
etc.

I used to access newsgroups through Google or Yahoo, but with these services
your email address appears unaltered. The spammers and virus kooks can use
email address "mining" software to pick up all the email addresses in the NG
and barrage you with junk emails. With NG access through my ISP (sbcglobal)
I can alter my email address by adding words in it that should obviously be
removed before sending me an email. This allows people to email me from the
NG but prevents the automatic mining of address from getting a useful email
address for me. Unfortunately, it also allows people to post with a bogus
email address if they wish so there is no way to correspond with them.


"zakezuke" <zakezuke_us@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1125185217.091976.274900@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> It appears that you are his newest "target" now that I've killfiled him
>> and stopped
>> responding to his posts.
>
> That's sad... I was classed as being not as much fun as your self.

You will only become "fun" to him if you continue to try to reason with him
and then appear irritated with his responses. As you've seen, he takes
great pleasure in trying to run people he disagrees with off of the NG. A
real creep.

(snip)
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 6:20:23 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Burt wrote: to Zake one and the same talking to himself again.

>Zake - a completely reasonable post. Let's see if he gives it his usual
>obnoxious response.
>
>BTW - I access this newsgroup through my ISP newsgroup service and use MS
>outlook express as the NG reader. You can do several things with outlook
>express
>
like get a virus

>to make someone's posts disappear, get marked as read immediately,
>etc.
>
>I used to access newsgroups through Google or Yahoo, but with these services
>your email address appears unaltered. The spammers and virus kooks can use
>email address "mining" software to pick up all the email addresses in the NG
>and barrage you with junk emails. With NG access through my ISP (sbcglobal)
>I can alter my email address by adding words in it that should obviously be
>removed before sending me an email. This allows people to email me from the
>NG but prevents the automatic mining of address from getting a useful email
>address for me. Unfortunately, it also allows people to post with a bogus
>email address if they wish so there is no way to correspond with them.
>
>
>"zakezuke" <zakezuke_us@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:1125185217.091976.274900@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>>>It appears that you are his newest "target" now that I've killfiled him
>>>and stopped
>>>responding to his posts.
>>>
>>>
>>That's sad... I was classed as being not as much fun as your self.
>>
>>
>
>You will only become "fun" to him if you continue to try to reason with him
>and then appear irritated with his responses. As you've seen, he takes
>great pleasure in trying to run people he disagrees with off of the NG. A
>real creep.
>
>(snip)
>
>
>
>
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 7:35:28 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Irwin Peckinloomer wrote:

>In article <L29Qe.1074$5k1.405@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net>,
>inkystinky@oem.com says...
>
>
>>>Fact: The Canon head has a limited life.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>IT USUALLY WILL LAST MOST PEOPLE THE LIFE OF THE PRINTER
>>
>>
>>
>Of course it will, 'cause when it fails, the life of the printer is
>over, since a replacement costs 75% of the price of a new printer, and
>comes with no ink cartridges.
>
>

DUH
!