Help for a friend

[mickeddie]

I am building my first PC and have had tons of help from this forum. A co-worker of mine wants my opinion on 2 entry level PC's from tigerdirect. I am thinking of building her a system and want some advice on the best, cheapest components for an entry level PC that will be used by an 11 year old for on-line games, school, and my co-worker just for regular computer useage.

I was thinking of one level up from rock-bottom. For price should I go AMD? If so do I want a Sempron or Athlon? If Intel which CPU? Pentium D or Celeron? I can figure out the mobo from the CPU that is recommended.

What case with PSU? Is $50 too cheap?

thanks!!

 

[shadowduck]

I am building my first PC and have had tons of help from this forum. A co-worker of mine wants my opinion on 2 entry level PC's from tigerdirect. I am thinking of building her a system and want some advice on the best, cheapest components for an entry level PC that will be used by an 11 year old for on-line games, school, and my co-worker just for regular computer useage.

I was thinking of one level up from rock-bottom. For price should I go AMD? If so do I want a Sempron or Athlon? If Intel which CPU? Pentium D or Celeron? I can figure out the mobo from the CPU that is recommended.

What case with PSU? Is $50 too cheap?

thanks!!

Well first of all avoid tiger direct like the plague. Very bad.

Stay away from the Pentium D- with the E6300 is there no reason to even consider any P-D model. On the AMD side I would look at the X2-3800+. It is really your choice. AMD you will spend more money on RAM, Intel will get you on the motherboard.

You want to spend at least $60 on a PSU ONLY. Cheap PSUs are a huge source of computer woes. I would personally go with the Antec Sonta II with comes with a 450W PSU and its on sale at Newegg for $89 before a $15 MIR. The PSU is of good quality, and the case is a very nice one.

 

[f1nal_0men]

Here is a system that will keep the cost down, but is also upgradeable:

motherboard
$69.99
I was looking for a motherboard with the Nforce 4 chipset, so it's plenty fast and supports all the new feautres, plus onboard video. I believe the 6100 is one of the fastest onboard videocards you can get. It will be able to play back videos, and even play some older basic games (even The Sims at low low quality) no problem.

processor
$83.99
You could save some money and go sempron, but these processors are much faster then there budget counterparts. This will have plenty of speed for browsing the internet, and playing flash games, checking email, and burning dvds.

memory
$95.99
This memory stood out, for under 100$ you could get DDR2 667mhz, from mushkin, a very respectible memory brand, and dual channel. This is an awesome deal.

case & psu
$59.99
Yay for sales! 25$ off original price, plus is a good looking case that comes with a 'hefty' power supply for what you'll need. Infact I have that exact same PSU in my computer, and I run high end ocz ram, athlon xp, 7800gs (fastest agp card), 2 sata HDs, dvd burner, 3 fans, soundblaster x-fi, and I overclock. It never skips a beat. For what your getting it will sail along.

harddrive
$64.99
WD, SATA2, 16mb cache, 160gb, for 65$? No contest. Sure you can get more gbs for the dollar, but I doubt that 11 year old will ever touch 10gb.

dvd burner
$28.99
You could save 5$ and just get a plan 'ol dvd drive, but I also remembered a co-worker will be using this computer as well, and you might as well spend the extra few dollars so you can backup data, make your own movies, music cds, whatever.

Total comes to $404. Now I already can hear people critisizing you should get a better power supply, or dual core, or a 'real' videocard. Remember what he wants. It's an 11 year old using this computer for online games. This computer will be plenty good enough for her. And that power supply will be just fine, it wont ever break a sweat with these components. I hope I helped

 

[angry_ducky]

I'll second everything teh other duck said, and I'll add this:

For the online gaming system, stay away from Celerons/Semprons and integrated graphics. At the very least, get an Athlon 64; preferably an A64 X2 or Core 2 Duo. For the video card, go with this Leadtek 7300GT for $84.

For the other system, go with a low-end Athlon 64, and integrated graphics. You'll want 1GB RAM for both, and I'd go with the Sonata II for both builds. I'd go with THIS hard drive.

 

[mickeddie]

You helped a LOT. Thank you!!!

 

[angry_ducky]

You helped a LOT. Thank you!!!

It's my pleasure . It's always nice to have someone thank you for your time.

 

[f1nal_0men]

You helped a LOT. Thank you!!!

It's my pleasure . It's always nice to have someone thank you for your time.

Heh, he replied to my post :twisted: but I'm sure he means to both of us.

I misunderstood, I didn't realise you wanted two builds, so this is what I recommend for online gaming with a minimal price tag:

CPU
$185.00
Core 2 Duo is currently the fastest dual core proc out there, and for 185$ it has amazing price/performance value. Just like the angry_ducky suggested.

Motherboard
$85.99
This motherboard is absolutely astounding. C2D support, SLI support, DDR2 800 support, and for 86$? No brainer. Downside - this board doesn't have the best overclocking capabilites.

Memory
$131.99 (with a 15$ MIR)
Just to be safe, go with corsair memory. Alot of people swear with it's compatibilty with just about any system, and that asus board is picky about certain memory. It's also go tight timings (12-4-4-4) and it's only 20$ more then that budget memory in that other system (after MIR).

case & psu
$84.99 (with a 15$ MIR)
This case, again recommended by angry_ducky, has good build quality, looks good, and includes a quality power supply. There is no comparison in value for a case that comes with a psu under 100$.

Videocard
$128.05
Uh, wow. I knew I could find an absolutely astounding price for this videocard. No, it's not newegg, but I did a quick search from Resellerratings.com and found it had over 60% lifetime satisfaction, remember, most people don't have a reason to go and give there input is everything went through smoothly. If something goes wrong, most people feel a need to share there negative expierence. All in all, it's the 'best' last gen videocard that can compete with todays 150$-200$ midrange videocards, for only 128$. Remember that your framerate is important in online gaming, especially in FPS games, such as CSS. Everytime your computer draws a frame, it also gathers data where players are, so the faster you draw frames, the faster your opponents data refreshes, giving you a better chance to hit him.

If your not going to be doing alot of video editing/decoding, and such, you wont need alot of harddrive space. Stick with the same harddrive I recommended on that other build. Same goes for the dvd burner.

Total for this system comes to: 710$, and we are talking high end cpu, fastest last-gen videocard, super compatible, and super quality corsair ram, elegant case with a quality psu. For it is under 700$ after MIR. I out done myself I think

==============

As for angry_ducky's recommendation, I would have to agree with a couple of his points, but disagree on others. That seagate harddrive maybe a better choice, and it will save you about 20$ too.

The Antec Sonata II for the low end system is a waste, you do not need a better psu for that low end system, and Cooler Master and Antec's quality are both top notch. So just save the money and go with the Cooler Master one, well, thats what I recommend you do anyways, it is your choice

For the higher end system I made here, yes, dual core is your best bet, like we all agree on.

The 7300gt at 84$ vs x850xt at 128$, no contest, x850xt smacks that 7300gt around

Again, just my two cents, and once again, I hope I helped in your buying decision.

 

[angry_ducky]

The 7300gt at 84$ vs x850xt at 128$, no contest, x850xt smacks that 7300gt around

Look at the memory clocks on that 7300GT. 1.4GHz GDDR3 in an $84 card. I was gonna recommend this BFG 7600GT, but seeing as how this card performs very closely (and overclocks very well, to boot).

I'll dig up a review of that 7300GT tomorrow afternoon; it's 12 AM here, and I have school tomorrow.

 

[f1nal_0men]

The 7300gt at 84$ vs x850xt at 128$, no contest, x850xt smacks that 7300gt around

Look at the memory clocks on that 7300GT. 1.4GHz GDDR3 in an $84 card. I was gonna recommend this BFG 7600GT, but seeing as how this card performs very closely (and overclocks very well, to boot).

I'll dig up a review of that 7300GT tomorrow afternoon; it's 12 AM here, and I have school tomorrow.

Here is one that has both cards
http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html?modelx=33&model1=532&model2=565&chart=196

HL2 E1 at 12x10 4xaa 8xaf
x850xt 46fps
7300gt 13fps

Oblivion 10x7 outdoor max quality
x850xt 21fps
7300gt 5fps

Prey 12x10
x850xt 34fps
7300gt 15fps

I rest my case.

 

[mickeddie]

Um...I wanted a recommendation for one build, not two.

But thanks so much again. I certainly did not expect you to make me an actual shopping list...but that makes it very easy.

Eddie

 

[f1nal_0men]

Um...I wanted a recommendation for one build, not two.

But thanks so much again. I certainly did not expect you to make me an actual shopping list...but that makes it very easy.

Eddie

Sorry, got confused with angry_ducky's post, well with the 2 systems, if it isn't going to be used for any real gaming, and just internet games/email/school work, that sorta thing, the first system is perfect.

 

[mickeddie]

My co-worker wants a machine with a little musscle so I went with the e6300 build.

I added a 17" lcd, the 7300gt GPU and a pair of $25 speakers and am charging her a total of $1k even.

How much do you usually charge aquantances for labor? Is $100 (plus I'm keeping the rebates) too much for a co-worker?

 

[mickeddie]

One more question...with the e6300 and no overclocking can I use the standard thermal compound that comes with the HS or should I clean it and use AS5?

 

[shadowduck]

One more question...with the e6300 and no overclocking can I use the standard thermal compound that comes with the HS or should I clean it and use AS5?

Standard. AC5 will run it cooler, but its not required.

 

[f1nal_0men]

My co-worker wants a machine with a little musscle so I went with the e6300 build.

I added a 17" lcd, the 7300gt GPU and a pair of $25 speakers and am charging her a total of $1k even.

How much do you usually charge aquantances for labor? Is $100 (plus I'm keeping the rebates) too much for a co-worker?

All depends on the relationship, I guess. 100$ + rebates seems a bit much, but thats just me I guess. Also, for speakers, you can do alot better then the 25$ special. These are amazing for only 33$. I hope she enjoys his new system.

 

[jimw428]

Don't waste your time with all these BS suggestions (albeit well meaning) for a do it yourself computer. If you want to keep your friend happy, suggest she buy a Dell or HP for around $500. It will work, have a meaningful warranty, legit OS and support is but a phone call away.

Info from Tom's
http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/09/14/bts_sales_2006/

 

[tool_462]

I agree with Jim here. For someone who doesn't know much about PC's, I always recommend going Dell or eMachines or similar if they are spending under $600-700 or so. (Even if it is a potential client.) It is just a better value and less hassle since you dont have to be the tech support.

Also, I usually charge 10% and keep rebates, just for a guideline if you start building for a few people. It spread really fast for me, built a couple "cool looking" PCs and started getting calls from people asking if I could "make their computer look cool" By that they are talking about side windows and lighting, a lot of people don't even know stuff like that exists! Good luck in your builds!

 

[f1nal_0men]

Don't waste your time with all these BS suggestions (albeit well meaning) for a do it yourself computer. If you want to keep your friend happy, suggest she buy a Dell or HP for around $500. It will work, have a meaningful warranty, legit OS and support is but a phone call away.

Info from Tom's
http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/09/14/bts_sales_2006/

Just because you believe it to be the best suggestion, doesn't make it the best decision. Don't go out of your way to be a complete asshole. If you have a suggestion, make it, and let whoever needs the advice make the final decision.

With that in mind, Dell, HP, Gateway, whatever, also has it's downsides. You are limited to certain hardware choices. You can just as easily buy a legit os copy with your system from newegg. And the os you get from a prebuilt computer will be full of trial software, a true pain to remove it all, wich you can never get rid of it all. So you essentially never get a clean windows install.

Buying from Dell is cheaper? HA! I built a system as close to what mickeddie suggested, and it came up over 1200$. Where does the value come in? Infact this dell system still had a ton of downfalls yet in comparison.
1) Dell uses there own motherboards (I think, if I'm wrong someone correct me on this one) so you never really know what kind of stability, or features it will ultimately have. There are reasons you can't just go out and buy a dell motherboard -_-

2) The videocard is slower, x1300pro was the best videocard that the system could be outfited with (I realise that you could probably call up dell and get them to put a better videocard in, but they will charge you alot more then it's worth)

3) The harddrive is slower. It never specified, but at best it's an 7200rpm 8mb cache sata drive, why not sata2 and 16mb cache?

4) Cheap no-name ram

5) Dell keyboard and speakers, I doubt they will last, or are quality components.

...
Yes, dell, or any computer manufactorer is sometimes better in certain situations, but when your spending 700$ (without os/monitor/speakers) you can do alot better for your money buying piece buy piece, getting quality hardware, and getting exactly what you (or in this case, your friend) wants.

If your wondering this is what that dell build had for hardware.


Dimension E520 Intel® Core™2 Duo Processor E6300 (1.86GHz, 1066 FSB)
Operating System Genuine Windows® XP Professional with re-installation CD
Memory 1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz- 2DIMMs
Keyboard Dell USB Keyboard and Dell 2-button Scroll Mouse
Monitor 17 inch E177FP Analog Flat Panel
Video Cards 256MB ATI Radeon X1300 Pro
Hard Drives 160GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
CD or DVD Drive 16x DVD+/-RW Drive
Sound Cards Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
Speakers Dell A525 30 Watt 2.1 Stereo Speakers with Subwoofer
Hardware Warranty 1Yr Ltd Warranty, 1Yr At-Home Service, and 1Yr HW Warranty Support

TOTAL:$1,218.00

VERSUS

Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 Conroe ($183.00)
Microsoft Windows XP Professional ($139.99)
CORSAIR XMS2 2 x 512MB DDR2 675 ($131.99)
Logitech Black Standard Keyboard ($4.95)
Logitech Optical Mouse Black 3 Buttons 1x Wheel ($12.75)
Acer Black 17" 8ms LCD Monitor ($159.99)
eVGA Geforce 7300GT 256MB ($66.99)
WD Caviar RE 160GB 7200RPM 16MB SATA 3.0Gb/s ($64.99)
LG Black DVD Burner ($28.99)
Integrates Sound ($0.00)
Logitech X-230 32 Watts 2.1 Speakers ($32.99)
Warranty on all hardware is at least one year, up to 5 years.

TOTAL:$826.63

 

[jimw428]

Don't waste your time with all these BS suggestions (albeit well meaning) for a do it yourself computer. If you want to keep your friend happy, suggest she buy a Dell or HP for around $500. It will work, have a meaningful warranty, legit OS and support is but a phone call away.

Info from Tom's
http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/09/14/bts_sales_2006/

Just because you believe it to be the best suggestion, doesn't make it the best decision. Don't go out of your way to be a complete *******. If you have a suggestion, make it, and let whoever needs the advice make the final decision.

I made a good and sound suggestion you moron. The poster said his friend wanted a system for an 11 year old child to play some online games and surf the net.

I notice that in your "magic list" of components you conveniently neglected to include a MoBo, case and PSU. How does that change the price comparision?

So your suggestion is to have the friend do what? Order up all these parts, wait a week or more for the shipments, dump them in a box that he/she then carries over to the poster's house (so he can build his 2nd computer)? He then fiddle farts around getting the latest BIOS and hopefully is able slap it together and have it all "work".

This forum is filled with people seeking advice to solve Conroe compatibility issues with MoBo's and memory.

And BTW, your warranty comment is just so much crap. Warranty isn't synonymous with the support you receive from a computer system supplier.

Who is going to diagnose a problem, properly identify the faulty component, remove it, pack it up, go online for the RMA, ship it off and wait how long? Is the 11 year old going to do all this?

Or is he going to say "Mommy my computer doesn't work, can you call your friend again"?

The problem with techno geeks like you is that you fancy youself as a computer expert and therefore an expert on most everything.

In your scenario if everything works perfectly, then the poster has done the "friend" a favor and maybe, just maybe, saved a few bucks along the way. But if it doesn't go well, he's lost a friend for life.

There's a reason why Dell and HP are as big as they are and these are precisely the type of customers they serve so well. Hobbyist like you (and yes, me as well) are not their primary market focus.

So maybe the next time a neophyte asks for advice, you'll be empathetic and think through the issues instead of posting a parts list with criticism of those that actually thought through the issues, and proposed viable alternatives.

 

[f1nal_0men]

I made a good and sound suggestion you moron. The poster said his friend wanted a system for an 11 year old child to play some online games and surf the net.

That was my first problem with your post earlier, and this post now. Why do you have to be so insulting, how old are you? Must you insult other people to make yourself feel better? And if you read the post, it said he wanted the computer for an 11 year old child and his coworker, and as he already made his choice earlier, decided to get a system a little more powerful for that reason.

I notice that in your "magic list" of components you conveniently neglected to include a MoBo, case and PSU. How does that change the price comparision?

I'll admit, I did make a mistake. Forgeting the case, psu, and motherboard, because I was doing a direct comparison to the dell build. With those components I overlooked, raises the cost up to about $1002. Still $200 cheaper then the dell system.

So your suggestion is to have the friend do what? Order up all these parts, wait a week or more for the shipments, dump them in a box that he/she then carries over to the poster's house (so he can build his 2nd computer)? He then fiddle farts around getting the latest BIOS and hopefully is able slap it together and have it all "work".

First off, he said he would be building the computer for this friend, and he is making a profit off of it. Second, since when does newegg take longer then 5 business days to ship the hardware? Again, he said he would be building the computer for his friend, and he's doing it for a profit. I'm sure he considered the fact this is his first time building a computer and is confident he can get it togethor. If he wasn't, I'm sure he would of directed his/her friend to an online retailer, such as dell.

And BTW, your warranty comment is just so much crap. Warranty isn't synonymous with the support you receive from a computer system supplier.

Yes, I partly agree with you here. A good reason to go to any computer manufactorer is due to the warranty that covers the whole system. And they have over the phone, even on site warranty. But, no, my warranty comment isn't 'crap'. Why would you even say that it is? I didn't twist any words, nor did I lie about anything. All hardware he will buy will get a 1-5 year warranty. The terms of that warranty differ from hardware to hardware. I never said the warranty is as good as a prebuilt computer.

Who is going to diagnose a problem, properly identify the faulty component, remove it, pack it up, go online for the RMA, ship it off and wait how long? Is the 11 year old going to do all this?

Or is he going to say "Mommy my computer doesn't work, can you call your friend again"?

Or they could just bring it to the local hardware shop. With most of your comments you sure are making a whole boat load of assumptions. How do you know the poster didn't come to some sort of agreement with his/her coworker about future issues? Maybe he enjoys working with hardware, I know I do.

The problem with techno geeks like you is that you fancy youself as a computer expert and therefore an expert on most everything.

No, that line pisses me right off. How the hell do you get the idea that I consider myself an expert on mostly everything? Find ONE post in ANY forum about me giving advice to someone that doesn't involve hardware, or build advice. Thats a mighty large assumption. To me it's sounds like your just being insulting. Your entire post is so tunnel minded you don't take the second to think that someone else might be right. Sounds to me like you might be the one who thinks they know everything about everything. And it sounds like your getting offended that I'm sticking a pretty decent argument on why he should build his own.

In your scenario if everything works perfectly, then the poster has done the "friend" a favor and maybe, just maybe, saved a few bucks along the way. But if it doesn't go well, he's lost a friend for life.

What kind of friend would get upset about faulty hardware? If thats the only kind of people you know, you need to get out more - and thats not intended as an insult. I mean that very literal.

So maybe the next time a neophyte asks for advice, you'll be empathetic and think through the issues instead of posting a parts list with criticism of those that actually thought through the issues, and proposed viable alternatives.

I'm not an 'outside the box' kind of thinker. This person wanted to build a computer, so I assisted with just that. Now that you bring the option of getting a prebuilt computer, I gave my rebuttal, and still believe the best route is buying piece buy piece. The part that upsets me the most is you have to come out insulting.

But, ultimately this guy sounds like he/she has made the decision to buy hardware piece buy piece, and I only come onto these forums to help others, I will leave the post. No need to squable over something that has already been decided. I hope you can understand where I'm coming from.

 

[mickeddie]

I'm sure he considered the fact this is his first time building a computer and is confident he can get it togethor. If he wasn't, I'm sure he would of directed his/her friend to an online retailer, such as dell.

What gave it away that this is my first build? I am actually anticipating building my first machine for myself...I'm just waiting for my Asus P5w Dh which seems to be out of stock just about everywhere. Anyway I've done most everything inside a box with the exception of mounting a mobo and the cpu (well, that is a very big thing to never have done )

So this will be my test build...at least I'm not paying for it if I mess up (hahaha!!! I crack myself up)

 

[f1nal_0men]

I am building my first PC and have had tons of help from this forum

Although, after reading it now, ya, I realise you were talking about two different PCs. I am ashamed that me Jimw428 had to argue like this, and I apologize. And I will not reply to Jimw428's posts as I stated earlier.

 

[jimw428]

Don't waste your time with all these BS suggestions (albeit well meaning) for a do it yourself computer. If you want to keep your friend happy, suggest she buy a Dell or HP for around $500. It will work, have a meaningful warranty, legit OS and support is but a phone call away.

Info from Tom's
http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/09/14/bts_sales_2006/

Just because you believe it to be the best suggestion, doesn't make it the best decision. Don't go out of your way to be a complete *******. If you have a suggestion, make it, and let whoever needs the advice make the final decision.

Keep in mind that you're the one that started this diatribe with your insults and name calling, all in response to a perfectly reasonable suggestion. Nothing in my post was anything other than a suggested alternative. It's obvious you didn't read the initial post very well, maybe you were too busy jumping to conclusions. Or did you simply feel the need to vent?

I repeat, you are a moronic child!

 

[mickeddie]

Does the P5ND2 support Core 2? I hope so because it is on it's way along with the e6300.

 

[shadowduck]

Does the P5ND2 support Core 2? I hope so because it is on it's way along with the e6300.

Now is one hell of a time to ask that question.

Answer is no. While the motherboard supports 1066FSB, there is no Core2 support according to Asus.

Sorry.