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Question: Epson ink level indicators BOGUS???

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Anonymous
September 1, 2005 6:01:45 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Hey, all.

I was in a camera store recently, and the salesman was pitching a Canon
printer. One of the things he said was that the Epson software which
tells the levels of the ink pots (I have a 777) is basically worthless;
he said it's based on timing, rather than any true indicator of ink
levels.

The Canon printer, he says, uses a laser to detect ink levels - when
the amount of ink is low enough to allow a laser through the ink
vertically, a sensor is tripped and you get a low ink warning.

Weird. Is this true?

One think he pointed out which I do agree with is that Epson's
cartidges are all opaque: what better way to check your ink levels than
to just look at the flippin' cartridge. Canon's cartridges are
transparent, according to him.

All that's interesting, but what I'm most curious about is the Epson
ink indicator in the driver software. Is it based on some timing
algorithm which may or may not be accurate?

Thanks!

BD
September 1, 2005 6:41:54 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

> One of the things he said was that the Epson software which
> tells the levels of the ink pots (I have a 777) is basically worthless;
> he said it's based on timing, rather than any true indicator of ink
> levels.

It's not based on timing but on drops, and it's true it is an estimate.
You can end up with 1ml, 2ml, or 3ml left that you could print with
but can't because you are locked out. You could use a chipresetter but
you run the risk of running dry esp since they are not transparent
tanks.

> The Canon printer, he says, uses a laser to detect ink levels - when
> the amount of ink is low enough to allow a laser through the ink
> vertically, a sensor is tripped and you get a low ink warning.

Wow, it makes it sound so high tech.
http://www.steves-digicams.com/2004_reviews/canon_ip400...
I guess it technicaly could be a laser led, I don't honestly know. But
it's true they do use light and a prism to establish whether or not the
reservoir is empty, which means there is roughly 20% left in the
sponge. It's rather simple, when there is fluid in the chamber the
light gets refracted and doesn't shine though the prism, but when empty
the light doesn't become refracted and gets reflected by the prism.
But there is really no warning or indication if they are empty or not.
The only real difference here is you can continue to print on something
that is seen as empty until empty if you so desire.

The newest canon tanks use chips to estimate how much ink is left, and
might also use a prism as well but I don't know for a fact. I've not
met one nor seen any reviews, but they are still clear. All things
being equal.... i'd rather have a float.

> All that's interesting, but what I'm most curious about is the Epson
> ink indicator in the driver software. Is it based on some timing
> algorithm which may or may not be accurate?

Near as i'm aware it's covered in the printer it self, and it's imply
the drop count. IIRC I think 20,000 drops was the number it estimated
as being empty, but it stops sometime before that... I seem to remember
the first time I changed one of my light magenta tanks it cleaned them
all and claimed everything was empty with numbers ranging from 16000 to
21000 IIRC.
September 2, 2005 1:20:33 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I have a canon and the ink level indicator is totally inaccurate. It does
have a prism at the bottom of the ink reservoir. When the ink level drops
to the point where the prism is exposed the light (laser? I don't think so!)
that shines through that part of the cartridge can then hit a sensor that
signals low ink in that cart. You can use it for a few more prints and it
then tells you that you are out of ink. When you put a new cart in the
indicator shows it as full. From the full indication to the low ink signal
there is no measurement of actual ink remaining in the cart. In addition,
if you remove the cart before the low ink indicator comes on and refill it,
when it is replaced in the printer it doesn't register as full. The low ink
signal must be triggered to then go to full when a new or refilled cart is
inserted. You are right in that the transparent carts permit you to simply
remove the cart and look at it to see how much ink remains.

I believe that the chipped epson carts "remember" estimated ink level
remaining based on the number of pages printed and probably includes the
cleaning cycles also which expend ink.

"BD" <bobby_dread@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1125605996.966641.309420@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hey, all.
>
> I was in a camera store recently, and the salesman was pitching a Canon
> printer. One of the things he said was that the Epson software which
> tells the levels of the ink pots (I have a 777) is basically worthless;
> he said it's based on timing, rather than any true indicator of ink
> levels.
>
> The Canon printer, he says, uses a laser to detect ink levels - when
> the amount of ink is low enough to allow a laser through the ink
> vertically, a sensor is tripped and you get a low ink warning.
>
> Weird. Is this true?
>
> One think he pointed out which I do agree with is that Epson's
> cartidges are all opaque: what better way to check your ink levels than
> to just look at the flippin' cartridge. Canon's cartridges are
> transparent, according to him.
>
> All that's interesting, but what I'm most curious about is the Epson
> ink indicator in the driver software. Is it based on some timing
> algorithm which may or may not be accurate?
>
> Thanks!
>
> BD
>
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Anonymous
September 2, 2005 4:46:00 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Burt wrote:

>I have a canon and the ink level indicator is totally inaccurate.
>

I HAVE A CANON AND THE INK INDICATOR IS TOTALLY ACCURATE JUST LIKE THE
MANUAL SAYS

>It does
>have a prism at the bottom of the ink reservoir. When the ink level drops
>to the point where the prism is exposed the light (laser? I don't think so!)
>that shines through that part of the cartridge can then hit a sensor that
>signals low ink in that cart. You can use it for a
>

MANY MANY MORE PRINTS

>few more prints and it
>then tells you that you are out of ink. When you put a new cart in the
>indicator shows it as full. From the full indication to the low ink signal
>there is no measurement of actual ink remaining in the cart. In addition,
>if you remove the cart before the low ink indicator comes on and refill it,
>
ONLY AN IDIOT DOES THAT

>
>when it is replaced in the printer it doesn't register as full. The low ink
>signal must be triggered to then go to full when a new or refilled cart is
>inserted.
>
WHO CARES. I DO NOT HAVE THAT PROBLEM

>You are right in that the transparent carts permit you to simply
>remove the cart and look at it to see how much ink remains.
>
>I believe
>
DO NOT BELIEVE. ASK CANON TECH SUPPORT

>that the chipped epson carts "remember" estimated ink level
>remaining based on the number of pages printed and probably includes the
>cleaning cycles also which expend ink.
>
>"BD" <bobby_dread@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1125605996.966641.309420@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>>Hey, all.
>>
>>I was in a camera store recently, and the salesman was pitching a Canon
>>printer. One of the things he said was that the Epson software which
>>tells the levels of the ink pots (I have a 777) is basically worthless;
>>he said it's based on timing, rather than any true indicator of ink
>>levels.
>>
>>The Canon printer, he says, uses a laser to detect ink levels - when
>>the amount of ink is low enough to allow a laser through the ink
>>vertically, a sensor is tripped and you get a low ink warning.
>>
>>Weird. Is this true?
>>
>>One think he pointed out which I do agree with is that Epson's
>>cartidges are all opaque: what better way to check your ink levels than
>>to just look at the flippin' cartridge. Canon's cartridges are
>>transparent, according to him.
>>
>>All that's interesting, but what I'm most curious about is the Epson
>>ink indicator in the driver software. Is it based on some timing
>>algorithm which may or may not be accurate?
>>
>>Thanks!
>>
>>BD
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
September 2, 2005 9:58:24 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

measekite <inkystinky@oem.com> wrote:
snip
>I HAVE A CANON AND THE INK INDICATOR IS TOTALLY ACCURATE JUST LIKE THE
>MANUAL SAYS

I thought you had a Canon Pixma ip4000 but I'm beginning to doubt that. The
chapter in the ip4000 users manual entitled "Checking the Status of the
Printer" clearly states that the ink status is reported as either full, low or
empty. There is no graduated scale. I can actually attest to this being true
since I have taken an ip4000 to pieces and the prsim mechanism is almost
primitive and has no capability to detect the actual ink level, also my printer
behaves exactly as the manual states.....Full, Low or Empty.
Mind you I like my ip4000, and would buy another similar product if I needed to.
Maybe you have a special ip4000 that is only given to Canon employees that has
a graduated scale and the facility to beam you up to the Enterprise (I wsih it
would); but I don't think so.
You have been caught out in yet another lie.
Tony
snip
September 2, 2005 10:36:26 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Tony wrote:
> measekite <inkystinky@oem.com> wrote:
> snip
>
>>I HAVE A CANON AND THE INK INDICATOR IS TOTALLY ACCURATE JUST LIKE THE
>>MANUAL SAYS
>
>
> I thought you had a Canon Pixma ip4000 but I'm beginning to doubt that. The
> chapter in the ip4000 users manual entitled "Checking the Status of the
> Printer" clearly states that the ink status is reported as either full, low or
> empty. There is no graduated scale. I can actually attest to this being true
> since I have taken an ip4000 to pieces and the prsim mechanism is almost
> primitive and has no capability to detect the actual ink level, also my printer
> behaves exactly as the manual states.....Full, Low or Empty.
> Mind you I like my ip4000, and would buy another similar product if I needed to.
> Maybe you have a special ip4000 that is only given to Canon employees that has
> a graduated scale and the facility to beam you up to the Enterprise (I wsih it
> would); but I don't think so.
> You have been caught out in yet another lie.
> Tony
> snip
hehehehe...good work Tony! :-)
Frank
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 2:08:28 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Oh no, not you... ;-)
September 2, 2005 6:28:53 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

> Of course the Canon ink level indicators are "accurate."
> Only on a Canon can you go from "full" to "low" before you finish printing the
> same 4x6 photo

Unless there happens to be a bead of ink on the side of the prism that
skews up the meter. Or if your desk or printer are slightly off level.
Lots of reasons why the simple meter system would fail and read just
full.
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 7:55:19 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Sometimes the no-minds of Usenet seem to me like herpes flare-ups. They
never really go away, there's no known cure for them, and they tend to
pop up with absolutely no warning and really ruin your day. And,
they're really hard to just ignore. ;) 
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 9:04:50 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Frank wrote:

> Tony wrote:
>
>> measekite <inkystinky@oem.com> wrote:
>> snip
>>
>>> I HAVE A CANON AND THE INK INDICATOR IS TOTALLY ACCURATE JUST LIKE
>>> THE MANUAL SAYS
>>
>>
>>
>> I thought you had a Canon Pixma ip4000 but I'm beginning to doubt
>> that. The chapter in the ip4000 users manual entitled "Checking the
>> Status of the Printer" clearly states that the ink status is reported
>> as either full, low or empty. There is no graduated scale. I can
>> actually attest to this being true since I have taken an ip4000 to
>> pieces and the prsim mechanism is almost primitive and has no
>> capability to detect the actual ink level, also my printer behaves
>> exactly as the manual states.....Full, Low or Empty.
>> Mind you I like my ip4000, and would buy another similar product if I
>> needed to.
>> Maybe you have a special ip4000 that is only given to Canon employees
>> that has a graduated scale and the facility to beam you up to the
>> Enterprise (I wsih it would); but I don't think so.
>> You have been caught out in yet another lie.
>> Tony
>> snip
>
> hehehehe...good work Tony! :-)
> Frank

hahahaha...good work Tony da Tiger :-(
September 3, 2005 1:35:09 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

measekite <inkystinky@oem.com> wrote:

Burt said "I have a canon and the ink level indicator is totally inaccurate."

You said "I HAVE A CANON AND THE INK INDICATOR IS TOTALLY ACCURATE"

You either lied or you deliberately distorted the thread to have a go at Burt.

The indicator is accurate only when the cartidge is new or empty, otherwise it
has zero accuracy. Nobody with an IQ above 20 could call that accurate.
What a shame you continue to try to make pointless and vitriolic posts which
mislead the people who ask for help in this ng.
End of thread
Tony
Anonymous
September 3, 2005 10:16:25 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Tony,
On this subject you haven't caught MK in one of his many lies (at least
technically). In his case what he says is true. He does so little printing
and as a result uses so little ink that the ink indicator stays on Full. Of
course if he actually did enough printing to use enough ink make the
indicator change he would still post as he did - in which case he would be
lying as is the case with nearly all of his postings.
--
Ron

<Tony> wrote in message news:p art1of1.1.MvIa6ieVi5zZ3A@ue.ph...
> measekite <inkystinky@oem.com> wrote:
> snip
>>I HAVE A CANON AND THE INK INDICATOR IS TOTALLY ACCURATE JUST LIKE THE
>>MANUAL SAYS
>
> I thought you had a Canon Pixma ip4000 but I'm beginning to doubt that.
> The
> chapter in the ip4000 users manual entitled "Checking the Status of the
> Printer" clearly states that the ink status is reported as either full,
> low or
> empty. There is no graduated scale. I can actually attest to this being
> true
> since I have taken an ip4000 to pieces and the prsim mechanism is almost
> primitive and has no capability to detect the actual ink level, also my
> printer
> behaves exactly as the manual states.....Full, Low or Empty.
> Mind you I like my ip4000, and would buy another similar product if I
> needed to.
> Maybe you have a special ip4000 that is only given to Canon employees that
> has
> a graduated scale and the facility to beam you up to the Enterprise (I
> wsih it
> would); but I don't think so.
> You have been caught out in yet another lie.
> Tony
> snip
September 3, 2005 11:00:08 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Ron
You are absolutely correct; he didn't lie, he is simply a poor soul lost in a
quagmire of abject ignorance.
I am contrite. Thank you for your incisive wisdom.
Tony

"drc023" <d+r+c+0+2+3@sbcXXXglobalYYY.ZZZnet> wrote:
>Tony,
>On this subject you haven't caught MK in one of his many lies (at least
>technically). In his case what he says is true. He does so little printing
>and as a result uses so little ink that the ink indicator stays on Full. Of
>course if he actually did enough printing to use enough ink make the
>indicator change he would still post as he did - in which case he would be
>lying as is the case with nearly all of his postings.
>--
>Ron
>
><Tony> wrote in message news:p art1of1.1.MvIa6ieVi5zZ3A@ue.ph...
>> measekite <inkystinky@oem.com> wrote:
>> snip
>>>I HAVE A CANON AND THE INK INDICATOR IS TOTALLY ACCURATE JUST LIKE THE
>>>MANUAL SAYS
>>
>> I thought you had a Canon Pixma ip4000 but I'm beginning to doubt that.
>> The
>> chapter in the ip4000 users manual entitled "Checking the Status of the
>> Printer" clearly states that the ink status is reported as either full,
>> low or
>> empty. There is no graduated scale. I can actually attest to this being
>> true
>> since I have taken an ip4000 to pieces and the prsim mechanism is almost
>> primitive and has no capability to detect the actual ink level, also my
>> printer
>> behaves exactly as the manual states.....Full, Low or Empty.
>> Mind you I like my ip4000, and would buy another similar product if I
>> needed to.
>> Maybe you have a special ip4000 that is only given to Canon employees that
>> has
>> a graduated scale and the facility to beam you up to the Enterprise (I
>> wsih it
>> would); but I don't think so.
>> You have been caught out in yet another lie.
>> Tony
>> snip
Anonymous
September 5, 2005 9:25:41 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I SAID JUST LIKE THE MANUAL SAID

TONY DA TIGER IN THE $$BUSINESS

Tony wrote:

>measekite <inkystinky@oem.com> wrote:
>
>Burt said "I have a canon and the ink level indicator is totally inaccurate."
>
>You said "I HAVE A CANON AND THE INK INDICATOR IS TOTALLY ACCURATE"
>
>You either lied or you deliberately distorted the thread to have a go at Burt.
>
>The indicator is accurate only when the cartidge is new or empty, otherwise it
>has zero accuracy. Nobody with an IQ above 20 could call that accurate.
>What a shame you continue to try to make pointless and vitriolic posts which
>mislead the people who ask for help in this ng.
>End of thread
>Tony
>
>
!