Argh ... 6 mo old PC died

[homeyclaus]

Alright, here is the scoop - this is so annoying:

6 mo old pc
Athlon X2 3800+
Gigabyte GA-K8-NF-9 MB
EVGA NVidia 7800 GT
2 GB ( 4x 512 ) Crucial PC3200 RAM
200 GB Maxtor HD
Samsung DVD Burner
(blah, blah)

Power supply: Antec SP-500 (that would be a Smartpower 500W)

The problem:

The unit is dead as a doornail. As in, finish some games, turn it off, go away for long weekend, come back, hit the power, nothing. No fans, no beeps.

Standard dead pc troubleshooting procedure:

Disconnect everything except the video card (and leave the ram and cpu in), and obviously the power supply and atx power button. Nothing. Fan does not spin, no beeps, nothing. Yes, peripherals are not connected to PS either.

Fine, dead PS. Plug in this cheap-o 300W unit I have lying around. Beep, boots to bios screen. Fine.

Stop by Staples, get another smartpower 500. Put it in. Hit power. Nothing. Unplug everything as above, hit power. Nothing.

Ok, possibly something getting grounded/shorted somewhere.

Pull out motherboard, inspect, re-mount. Plug in bare minimum. I get a boot screen. Plug the rest back in, system dead again. Unplug to minimum, system still dead.

Any other ideas? I pinged Giga-byte and Antec tech support (Antec says they dropped the -5V rail as ATX 2.0 no longer specifies it, so this may be it), but it's unlikely I have two bad power supplies.

Other ideas? Anything I missed? Yes, I wore a static strap. Again, this case had not been opened in the preceding five months or so.

Thanks for any help or ideas!

 

[dasickninja]

Wow, I mean wow, you've gone over all the things that i think would be the problem, have you tried using the PSU on a seperate mobo? That way you could see if its a problem with your board itself or if it truely is a PSU issue.

 

[doolittle]

Funny how the 300w worked perfectly and neither of the SP500s did - almost like the ATX connector on the 300w is making good power connection and the SP-500s aren't?

I would check the old SP-500 by connecting a junk hdd and cdrom then "jump-start" it by shorting out the power_good to ground then plugging in & powering on the rear power sw, then you can see if it powers on the hdd/cd and check the voltages. Maybe both are good?

If so then get a small screwdriver and "crimp" all the female connectors very slightly so they grip the motherboard's male posts better and try it again...? Well that is the only way I know to fix slutty power connectors.

 

[homeyclaus]

Folks, thanks for your answers.

I don't think I want to mess around with crimping stuff - the system worked fine before, and I think it rather unlikely that the connectors will uncrimp themselves.

Unfortunately, the 300W PSU does not have enough juice to power the PC (I don't feel like risking the rest of the PC to find out), or this would all be moot.

After playing with the unit some more after the port, the verdict is that the replacement PSU is DOA. Antec has not been of help - I asked them if there were any known issues:

The message posted to their online system:
------
Trouble Ticket ID: 60992
User: xxxxxxxxxxxx
Date and Time Submitted: 09-14-2006 @ 06:32:32PM
Trouble Type: Power Supplies
Trouble Priority: Dead Product
-------------------------------------------------------
Short Description: System dead w SP-500 (two tried), not with other PS
-------------------------------------------------------
Please save this email for your records
--------

Asked about potential issues with the mainboard and PSU.

The answer:

-------
Please be advised that a comment has been added to your trouble ticket:
-------------------------------------------------------
Trouble Ticket ID: 60992
Description: System dead w SP-500 (two tried), not with other PS
Comment By: John Bowen
-------------------------------------------------------
Comment: Please review our RMA Policy & Procedures
(http://www.antec.com/us/support_rma.html) and AQ3 Warranty
(http://www.antec.com/us/warranty.php?value=en&Submit=Submit) before
filling out our RMA Request Form. Be sure to put your Customer Care Ticket
ID number on your RMA request form. Please download the RMA Request
form (http://www.antec.com/pdf/rma_form.pdf). Fill it out and fax
(510-661-2083) or email (rma@antec.com) it back to the RMA Department with a
copy of your invoice or receipt from the purchase. When the RMA
Department receives the paperwork, they will verify all the information is
correct and the product(s) are within warranty. The RMA number to return
your defective part will be emailed to you within two business days. Be
sure to check your SPAM email folders because our confirmation emails may
be blocked or filtered out by your email host. And if at all possible
in the comments section of the request form could you enter the model of
the motherboard and its model number Your support issue has been
transferred to Antec's RMA department for follow-up.

To improve system performance we are closing your Support Ticket. If
you need to follow up on this issue with Antec Customer Support, you may
still do so. Please reference your Customer Care ID number when
contacting us again.



Thank you,

John Bowen
Antec Customer Support
---------

Translation: F*** off.

Nice.

Recommendations for replacements?

 

[doolittle]

Actually, the 300w may be able to work (depending on the brand and +12v specs)

eXtreme PSU calc[/url]"]System Type: Single Processor
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ 2000 MHz 1.40v
CPU Utilization (TDP): 100% TDP

RAM: 2 Sticks DDR SDRAM
Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GT 470 MHz
Video Type: Single Card

SATA HDD: 1 HDD

DVD-RW/DVD+RW Drive: 1 Drive

Sound Blaster - All Models: Yes

Fans
Regular: 1 Fan 80mm; 1 Fan 120mm;

Motherboard, keyboard and mouse: Yes

PSU Utilization: 100% (peak utilization)

Total: 261 Watts

© 2004 - 2006 OuterVision.com and it's licensors. All rights reserved.

The 7800gt uses about 57w and the x2 3800 around 65w so that would be 4.75A and 5.4A respectively on the +12v, hdd / cdrom /fans add 4 so thats only 14.2A max total demand on the +12v. It may be worth a shot with the old 300W psu to fire it up and see if you have everything else working.

For a replacement, I have to plug my fave low cost PSU, SPARKLE ATX-400PN-B204 ATX 12V 2.0 400W $42 shipped @ ewiz (have used this on dozens of budget game builds) or maybe Antec's TPII-480 for $75 shipped @ buy.com or Antec's TPII-550 for $85 shipped @ chiefvalue since the truepower series are much better than smartpower series - they don't haev the DOA and quick-death issues as the SP series seem to have as of late. Reminds me of the Thermaltake RMAs of similiar nature a couple of years ago.

 

[dasickninja]

You should send that to the next Tech Support woes column.
Also I recommend the Seasonic S12-330 for $54.

 

[Pain]

I would think those power figures are under full load, so I wouldn't hesitate to power it up with the 300W supply. I just wouldn't put the machine under load. A 6800U, for example, pulls about 75W under load, and about 30 idle.


But, I don't think it matters since it appears to be 2 dead supplies, or something else related to those supplies.

 

[homeyclaus]

Hey, thanks for the wattage numbers.

I don't think I'll send any more money Antec's way.

Everyone, thanks for your help!

 

[306maxi]

Folks, thanks for your answers.

I don't think I want to mess around with crimping stuff - the system worked fine before, and I think it rather unlikely that the connectors will uncrimp themselves.

Unfortunately, the 300W PSU does not have enough juice to power the PC (I don't feel like risking the rest of the PC to find out), or this would all be moot.

After playing with the unit some more after the port, the verdict is that the replacement PSU is DOA. Antec has not been of help - I asked them if there were any known issues:

The message posted to their online system:
------
Trouble Ticket ID: 60992
User: xxxxxxxxxxxx
Date and Time Submitted: 09-14-2006 @ 06:32:32PM
Trouble Type: Power Supplies
Trouble Priority: Dead Product
-------------------------------------------------------
Short Description: System dead w SP-500 (two tried), not with other PS
-------------------------------------------------------
Please save this email for your records
--------

Asked about potential issues with the mainboard and PSU.

The answer:

-------
Please be advised that a comment has been added to your trouble ticket:
-------------------------------------------------------
Trouble Ticket ID: 60992
Description: System dead w SP-500 (two tried), not with other PS
Comment By: John Bowen
-------------------------------------------------------
Comment: Please review our RMA Policy & Procedures
(http://www.antec.com/us/support_rma.html) and AQ3 Warranty
(http://www.antec.com/us/warranty.php?value=en&Submit=Submit) before
filling out our RMA Request Form. Be sure to put your Customer Care Ticket
ID number on your RMA request form. Please download the RMA Request
form (http://www.antec.com/pdf/rma_form.pdf). Fill it out and fax
(510-661-2083) or email (rma@antec.com) it back to the RMA Department with a
copy of your invoice or receipt from the purchase. When the RMA
Department receives the paperwork, they will verify all the information is
correct and the product(s) are within warranty. The RMA number to return
your defective part will be emailed to you within two business days. Be
sure to check your SPAM email folders because our confirmation emails may
be blocked or filtered out by your email host. And if at all possible
in the comments section of the request form could you enter the model of
the motherboard and its model number Your support issue has been
transferred to Antec's RMA department for follow-up.

To improve system performance we are closing your Support Ticket. If
you need to follow up on this issue with Antec Customer Support, you may
still do so. Please reference your Customer Care ID number when
contacting us again.



Thank you,

John Bowen
Antec Customer Support
---------

Translation: F*** off.

Nice.

Recommendations for replacements?

Translation. You have two dead PSU's and you want them to magically fix them from a few thousand miles away. Get off your butt and RMA them :roll: What else are tech support meant to say when it's quite clear that both of your PSU's appear to be dead?????? All they can do is get you to RMA them.

 

[asdasd123123]

Saw three others with issues with Antec just today here on toms.. Maybe they're just a bad provider?

 

[homeyclaus]

Translation. You have two dead PSU's and you want them to magically fix them from a few thousand miles away. Get off your butt and RMA them :roll: What else are tech support meant to say when it's quite clear that both of your PSU's appear to be dead?????? All they can do is get you to RMA them.

Riiight... I suppose two DOA's and one lasting 9 months this year is my fault? Sure - I drop kick them before installing just to be sure I get to wait four weeks for a return.

I want them fixed? Hell no - how about not breaking in the first place? Oh, yes, you think it's my fault and thus unreasonable, and that me waiting a total of eight weeks this year because of faulty parts is what I deserve.

Perhaps them stating that, "yes, it looks DOA," would be appropriate, rather than referring me to their RMA policy. The language used means "I don't feel like supporting you, go make your case with the RMA guys." It's not hard to set up a more reasonable customer support work flow.

Staples is getting the DOA back - why have two poor quality power supplies.

 

[Pain]

I think the point is that they can't help you via email to repair the units, so there is little else they can do except have you send them back. What else do you expect them to do?

Go buy another brand PSU and when you get your replacement from the RMA, keep it as a spare. Sounds like a reasonable plan.

 

[homeyclaus]

My point is from a customer support perspective, some politeness can really help cement customer loyalty. Even just to say sorry you have been having such bad luck with our products.

A CSR could go the extra mile and offer to credit both units to a higher end PSU, or at least say that this is what they could do in the RMA department. That's 10 seconds of effort, and would have kept the customer.

"Case closed, get in the other line over there. Next." works, but given the choice of two failure-prone (i.e. > 1%) products, I'd pick the one that cared just one bit over the other.

 

[306maxi]

My point is from a customer support perspective, some politeness can really help cement customer loyalty. Even just to say sorry you have been having such bad luck with our products.

A CSR could go the extra mile and offer to credit both units to a higher end PSU, or at least say that this is what they could do in the RMA department. That's 10 seconds of effort, and would have kept the customer.

"Case closed, get in the other line over there. Next." works, but given the choice of two failure-prone (i.e. > 1%) products, I'd pick the one that cared just one bit over the other.

What they're talking about is a support case. Support meaning that they're trying to fix your problem without getting the unit physically worked on. They're exhausted all of their options and now your PSU needs to get repaired. That's it. If you don't like it then don't send your PSU off for RMA.

It's not standard practice from any company to upgrade units unless your PSU has been superceded. As someone who up until recently had been a CSR for over 3 years I think that Antec have done the right thing by you and you're just expecting too much. Your case was closed because Antec probably don't keep cases open for any longer than they need to so as to give good statistics on their customer service and times taken to resolve cases. To you it may seem rude but this guy is just doing the job as best he can.