Intel to announce "lightspeed" chip

http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/09/18/intel_laser_chip/


Quote:
For PC users, the advance would mean an Internet connection nearly 1,000 times faster than broadband is today. Such an advance would mean a movie could be downloaded in minutes rather than hours, and several content streams -- like Internet-delivered TV -- could be watched simultaneously.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nf/20060918/tc_nf/46306
49 answers Last reply
More about intel announce quot lightspeed quot chip
  1. There are laser chips by NEC allready:
    Quote:
    The communications chip NEC has developed is called a Vertical-Cavity Surface Emitting Laser, or VCSEL, which converts electric current to laser pulses, as the Newscientest.com article states. The VCSEL diode is made from "a blend of gallium arsenide and indium gallium arsenide rather than the usual aluminum gallium arsenide to be able to transfer pulses more rapidly through optic fiber". The outcome is the ability to transfer data over fiber optics at about 25Gbits/sec.

    http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=1370

    But we'll have to wait before we can have such technology in general purpose chips.
  2. Is that what it looks like?



    hmmm.. Do we get a light show when its under load? :oops: . o O (J/K!!)
  3. Maybe we can sync our chips to Pink Floyd. 8)
  4. Quote:
    There are laser chips by NEC allready:
    The communications chip NEC has developed is called a Vertical-Cavity Surface Emitting Laser, or VCSEL, which converts electric current to laser pulses, as the Newscientest.com article states. The VCSEL diode is made from "a blend of gallium arsenide and indium gallium arsenide rather than the usual aluminum gallium arsenide to be able to transfer pulses more rapidly through optic fiber". The outcome is the ability to transfer data over fiber optics at about 25Gbits/sec.

    http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=1370

    But we'll have to wait before we can have such technology in general purpose chips.

    Nice link, Thanks.
  5. Gaaah, you beat me to it.
  6. Dooohhhh :oops:
    :P

    Anyways, here's a link to Intel's paper on it:
    http://www.intel.com/research/platform/sp/hybridlaser.htm
    Quote:
    The laser is compact so it allows many lasers to be integrated on a single chip. The first demonstration hybrid silicon laser is only ~800 microns long. Future generations will be significantly smaller.

    Quote:
    With this highly integrated silicon photonic transceiver, it is possible to imagine a future world in which most computing devices are endowed with high–bandwidth optical connectivity. Be they servers, desktops, or smaller client devices, all devices will have access to substantially greater bandwidth at a lower cost.
  7. I thing is a very good concept but i dont thing it will be here for a very long time and intel will porbs chnge there minds or somehting stupid like that and give up.
  8. Quote:
    I thing is a very good concept but i dont thing it will be here for a very long time and intel will porbs chnge there minds or somehting stupid like that and give up.


    I doubt they'll give up on this, as chipmakers have been looking into fiber optics for some time now - the latencies of alloys alone is reason enough to make the move.

    This tech will probably start at the super-computer level and work its way down. So, you are right in this, it will probably take a very long time for us to see anything at the desktop level.
  9. Kinda wonder if those chips could look like the core's in that movie "IRobot".

    You know.. Vikki or Sunny. :lol:

    "My logic is undeniable."

    Gah.. wouldn't the ram chips need that type of speed as well?

    heh.. and GPU?

    You think they might end up with... 50-100k rpm hds? :oops:
  10. Quote:
    Gah.. wouldn't the ram chips need that type of speed as well?

    heh.. and GPU?

    You think they might end up with... 50-100k rpm hds? :oops:


    Ever heard of holographic storage? :wink:


    Cheers!
  11. Quote:
    Gah.. wouldn't the ram chips need that type of speed as well?

    heh.. and GPU?


    I could see fiberoptic RAM becoming an actuality. If they develop this process fully, then the GPU could be made the same way (If it isn't part of the CPU by then.)


    Quote:
    ]You think they might end up with... 50-100k rpm hds? :oops:


    Years ago, they were talking about holographic storage. Where you could have a cube, made up of transparent (to the eye) layers which would be read in 3d by a laser. I wonder if anyone's still working on this. :?

    Quote:
    Kinda wonder if those chips could look like the core's in that movie "IRobot".

    You know.. Vikki or Sunny. :lol:

    "My logic is undeniable."


    I was kinda hoping it would look more like the girl in Weird Science. 8)
  12. Quote:
    Gah.. wouldn't the ram chips need that type of speed as well?

    heh.. and GPU?

    You think they might end up with... 50-100k rpm hds? :oops:


    Ever heard of holographic storage? :wink:


    Cheers!


    Ooooh, snuck that one in while I was pontificating..... :P
  13. Quote:
    Ooooh, snuck that one in while I was pontificating..... :P


    :D it happens...

    Amazing technology, "old" theory & dificult to implement. Anyway, it's my conviction it will be another major leap, sooner or later.


    Cheers!
  14. Quote:
    You think they might end up with... 50-100k rpm hds? :oops:


    Ever heard of holographic storage? :wink:


    Cheers!

    Nope... I'm a simple guy. Only thing I do remember way back... was Holographic DVD, not even sure if thats out yet, but is it?
  15. Quote:
    Amazing technology, "old" theory & dificult to implement. Anyway, it's my conviction it will be another major leap, sooner or later.


    Cheers!


    I hope it doesn't come too soon. My brain is getting full. I'm still trying to mentally process this:
    Quote:
    It has also been reported
    that high-K/polySi transistor exhibits severely degraded
    channel mobility due to the coupling of low energy surface
    optical (SO) phonon modes arising from the polarization of
    the high-K to the inversion channel charge carriers [ref. 13],
    and that metal gate may be more effective in screening the
    high-K SO phonons from coupling to the channel under
    inversion conditions [ref. 13-14]. On the other hand, the use
    of high-K/metal-gate requires a p-type metal and a n-type
    metal with the right work functions for high-performance
    CMOS logic applications on bulk Si [ref. 15].


    from a link Jack gave the other day, when I saw this "lightspeed" chip info. Now I'm reading the white paper on it. I don't think I could possibly pass up info on holographic storage - so smoke may begin pouring out my ears. :(

    I wish I could purge old info out of my head. I can remember word-for-word the theme from The Facts of Life, but I can't even remember the point I was going to make with this post. :?
  16. I'm so confused... I finally convince myself to get a conroe, or maybe
    a kentsfield. And then this comes along.

    Does anybody know what it will cost?
    Does anybody know when it will be out?

    Only kidding.
  17. I think optical computers will pave the way for quantum state computers. What comes after that I dont know... but at that time im pretty sure Doom 3 will run ok :) lol
  18. I thought the telcoms where already using fiber optic switches ? I know they are not chips but dont they process signals ? It seems to me they just need to miniturize those ?

    Edit: Holy brain farts I forgot I posted already lol
  19. Im just waiting for that vurtual reality chip. Then we can use it to create a hollodeck like in Star Trek the Next Generation. I would go in that sucker an never come out! :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:
  20. Exactly.. fiber optic switches.... They use it to transfer data through fiber optics, much better bandwidth then through copper and much lower latency.

    Uhm, I think. Someone verify me on this :P
  21. OHHHH YA... Gettin som on the holodeck :twisted:

    schwing!

    Something about coupling with light creates a slippery floor.

    I'm such a geek....
  22. Quote:
    http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/09/18/intel_laser_chip/


    For PC users, the advance would mean an Internet connection nearly 1,000 times faster than broadband is today. Such an advance would mean a movie could be downloaded in minutes rather than hours, and several content streams -- like Internet-delivered TV -- could be watched simultaneously.


    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nf/20060918/tc_nf/46306

    Word.
  23. Quote:
    This is quite abit different than what Intel announced. Optical materials with the III-V's are child's play, silicon on the other hand is quite unique. Considering the processing challenges of III-V, integrating an optical interconnect technology into silicon, where standard processing is well characterized, would represent a hugely promising step forward for interconnect speed. It would make Hypertransport look like Humptytransvestite. :)


    :lol:
    Humptytransvestite? Is that a new cross-platform development?
  24. Quote:
    Ever heard of holographic storage? :wink:


    Quote:
    Nope... I'm a simple guy. Only thing I do remember way back... was Holographic DVD, not even sure if thats out yet, but is it?


    No, as far as I know, it isn't out yet; again, AFAIK, there's nothing holographic-made, comercially available.

    But, the physical/mechanical (Damn! And one'd think that mechanical parts would be out of the issue...) basics are pretty straightforward:

    http://www.inphase-technologies.com/technology/tour/index.html

    (slide show)

    Intel (among others), is addressing silicon-based lasers (as JumpingJack mentioned), using the Raman effect, which looks very promising for Comms & interconnects, although silicon is nowhere near the best "light emitter", due to its chemical properties:

    http://www.intel.com/research/platform/sp/

    Holographic storage is another matter, although the basics are the same.

    Well, simple guys are just like complex guys: It only matters what you do with the adjective. :wink:


    Cheers!
  25. Quote:
    I hope it doesn't come too soon. My brain is getting full. I'm still trying to mentally process this:
    It has also been reported
    that high-K/polySi transistor exhibits severely degraded
    channel mobility due to the coupling of low energy surface
    optical (SO) phonon modes arising from the polarization of
    the high-K to the inversion channel charge carriers [ref. 13],
    and that metal gate may be more effective in screening the
    high-K SO phonons from coupling to the channel under
    inversion conditions [ref. 13-14]. On the other hand, the use
    of high-K/metal-gate requires a p-type metal and a n-type
    metal with the right work functions for high-performance
    CMOS logic applications on bulk Si [ref. 15].


    from a link Jack gave the other day, when I saw this "lightspeed" chip info. Now I'm reading the white paper on it. I don't think I could possibly pass up info on holographic storage - so smoke may begin pouring out my ears. :(

    I wish I could purge old info out of my head. I can remember word-for-word the theme from The Facts of Life, but I can't even remember the point I was going to make with this post. :?

    :D Yes, while the basics may be somewhat straightforward, when you go deeper into it (if you're interested, of course!), that's not simple from a non-technical stand-point; however, it's worth to take the time & try to grasp as much as possible; that's why I haven't gone through Jack's installments, yet; I haven't had the time to make a worthy attempt to pay it the due attention, make my own research & ask the pertinent questions.

    You focused a very interesting & stressing point: There's so much info & data to digest, nowadays, that it's almost an Herculean task to keep up-to-date with some consistent, basic understanding. Very helpful "solution": try to keep (& improve, if possible) those elementary physical principles clean: after all, Physical laws & logic are universal. :wink:


    Cheers!
  26. Quote:
    I think optical computers will pave the way for quantum state computers. What comes after that I dont know... but at that time im pretty sure Doom 3 will run ok :) lol


    Yes, photons would be the best qubit "substrate", concerning Quantum Computing (best universal speedsters, integer spin, massless & available...); but, they carry no charge at all; pretty difficult to control, then. Even with atoms/electrons, it's darn difficult to maintain quantum superposition for a reasonable amount of time, without disrupting it: and this, is the most fundamental quantum state in QC.


    Cheers!
  27. Found this interesting:
    http://colossalstorage.net/3d_holo.htm
    Quote:
    The holographic optical drive will use the Einstein/Planck Theory of Energy Quantum Electrons to control molecular properties by an atoms electron movement/displacement. The Patented Semiconductor Integrated Optical Read / Write Head Fig. 1 plans to use Ultraviolet/Blue laser diodes with Voltage transducer to write, new definition of term include photon/laser induced electrical field poling Fig. 2, and UV/Blue laser diode and Nanooptical transistor or Nanofloating gate Mos Fet to read.


    Won't be soon:
    Quote:
    Research and development on techniques and functions for controlling ferroelectric perovskite's dipole dielectric properties write, erase and storage states in nanocrystal memories will need to be created. The techniques developed would be for fast read/write control of ferroelectric molecules, which have an almost infinite storage persistence of data.


    But, still this is fascinating.
  28. Quote:
    Found this interesting:
    http://colossalstorage.net/3d_holo.htm

    Won't be soon:
    The techniques developed would be for fast read/write control of ferroelectric molecules, which have an almost infinite storage persistence of data.


    But, still this is fascinating.

    Yes, fascinating indeed.
    There is a number of difficult to solve issues with holographic storage but, it's my conviction that its delayed implementation has a lot more to do with exhausting current storage technologies, up to a point where holographic storage will be pertinent... profit-wise. And, solid-state storage is popping up, right now.

    (I wonder if our own hemoglobin - molecules in our blood red cells which bind oxygen atoms to its iron ones - could serve as ferroelectric molecules as well... joking! :D )


    Cheers!
  29. Quote:

    (I wonder if our own hemoglobin - molecules in our blood red cells which bind oxygen atoms to its iron ones - could serve as ferroelectric molecules as well... joking! :D )


    Cheers!


    Actualy I had heard something about some one useing blood on hard drives to store data so that joke isnt far off lol

    I googled around and couldnt find a link but will keep looking but for now here is a link for a Blood powered fuel cell (Vampire laptop anyone ?)
    http://www.engadget.com/2005/05/14/biological-fuel-cell-runs-on-blood/
  30. I was reading somewhere that it would start to make it's way to consumers by the end of this decade 2009-2010(2-3 years).
  31. Quote:

    (I wonder if our own hemoglobin - molecules in our blood red cells which bind oxygen atoms to its iron ones - could serve as ferroelectric molecules as well... joking! :D )


    Cheers!


    Actualy I had heard something about some one useing blood on hard drives to store data so that joke isnt far off lol

    I googled around and couldnt find a link but will keep looking but for now here is a link for a Blood powered fuel cell (Vampire laptop anyone ?)
    http://www.engadget.com/2005/05/14/biological-fuel-cell-runs-on-blood/

    :lol: I was really joking! This is amazing, I only hope vitamin K3 (?) isn't toxic (in excess) and will be downloadable through next-gen fast & wide network interconnects! Vampire Laptop w/USB 10.0 syringe! :D


    Cheers!
  32. Quote:

    (I wonder if our own hemoglobin - molecules in our blood red cells which bind oxygen atoms to its iron ones - could serve as ferroelectric molecules as well... joking! :D )


    Cheers!


    Actualy I had heard something about some one useing blood on hard drives to store data so that joke isnt far off lol

    I googled around and couldnt find a link but will keep looking but for now here is a link for a Blood powered fuel cell (Vampire laptop anyone ?)
    http://www.engadget.com/2005/05/14/biological-fuel-cell-runs-on-blood/

    :lol: I was really joking! This is amazing, I only hope vitamin K3 (?) isn't toxic (in excess) and will be downloadable through next-gen fast & wide network interconnects! Vampire Laptop w/USB 10.0 syringe! :D


    Cheers!

    I dont know but the idea of being able to pull over in my car and pay some street person like 10$ to "recharge" my laptop sounds kinda cool lol
  33. Quote:
    here is a link for a Blood powered fuel cell


    Your avatar now begins to worry me. 8O


    :P
  34. Quote:
    here is a link for a Blood powered fuel cell


    Your avatar now begins to worry me. 8O


    :P

    Yes they had the Matrix all wronge.... LOL
  35. Quote:
    I dont know but the idea of being able to pull over in my car and pay some street person like 10$ to "recharge" my laptop sounds kinda cool lol


    Bloody good idea.


    Cheers!
  36. Quote:
    I dont know but the idea of being able to pull over in my car and pay some street person like 10$ to "recharge" my laptop sounds kinda cool lol


    Bloody good idea.


    Cheers!

    Or it could give an entirely new meaning to war driving... hehehehe
  37. So in a few years, we can have blood powered computers with laser chips and holographic storage. 8)

    I suggest one finds a way to apply Bell's Theorem to networking.

    This way we can have instantaneous connection regardless of distance.
    Quote:
    This action of observer A on distant particle B does not diminish with distance, cannot be shielded and travels faster than light. This (in theory) distant influence is unmediated, unmitigated and immediate. This (in theory) quantum connection between two particles once together now apart is a lot like voodoo--no known force connects particles A and B--just the fact of their once being together suffices to mingle their phases.


    Quote:
    Irish physicist John Stewart Bell considered the EPR system and showed with a devilishly clever proof that all conceivable models of Reality must incorporate this instant connection. What Bell showed is that despite the fact that Relativity prohibits instantaneous connections, despite the fact that no such connections have ever been observed either in EPR experiments or any other, despite the fact that quantum theory itself predicts no observable instant connections, despite all these considerations from Fact and Theory, the Reality of the EPR particles is such that their initial contact must create an instantaneous voodoo-style link between them below the level of Appearances.

    .....head spins......twitch develops on left side.......
  38. So maybe you could set up a quantum entanglement between two particles and then alter the phase of one (I would recomend microwaves) and if you observed the other it would repeat the variations... interesting lol Maybe when they became entangled a sort of mini black hole was created (at the plank level of course) and a white whole also perhaps in binary with the electrons going in and out so that they orbit both.... well it sounds fascinating :) Well enough of my sensless jabering for the day LOL
  39. Quote:
    So maybe you could set up a quantum entanglement between two particles and then alter the phase of one (I would recomend microwaves) and if you observed the other it would repeat the variations... interesting lol Maybe when they became entangled a sort of mini black hole was created (at the plank level of course) and a white whole also perhaps in binary with the electrons going in and out so that they orbit both.... well it sounds fascinating :) Well enough of my sensless jabering for the day LOL


    Good call with microwaves. :idea:

    We might have a problem with the mini Black Holes. This group is concerned that they may be unstoppable once created.

    Quote:
    No, really -- you just don't want to know this. There’s a remote, but extremely terrifying possibility our planet is about to be swallowed from within by a man-made black hole. In fact, our planet could be booby trapped with baby black holes already.

    It is one weird way to go. One moment, you’re here. And the next -- you’re not. It will be sudden, and dramatic. Within seconds, the planet, with everything and everyone on it, is reduced to nothingness. Or actually: it is squeezed together into a tiny black hole, no more than 9 millimeters wide.
  40. Quote:
    I suggest one finds a way to apply Bell's Theorem to networking.

    This way we can have instantaneous connection regardless of distance.


    Seems there's a slight prob with the phase space, gents:

    a. In 1983, Alain Aspect (et al) performed an experiment which concluded that, with a high but not absolute certainty!, Bell inequalities are violated (several experiments were performed since then, with the same results); so much for QM non-locality & hidden variables (http://perso.orange.fr/eric.chopin/epr/aspect.htm);

    b. Planck's equation for the photon's energy E is: E=h*f, where h is Planck's constant & f, frequency. One of the most important consequences of Planck's work is that, a quantum (h) cannot exist as free energy in sub-multiples of itself (like 1/2h, 1/3h, 1/4h,... 1/nh) but, rather, in integer multiples of itself (h, 2h, 3h,... nh), its total energy depending upon frequency, as well. For a zero rest-mass particle like the photon (a quantum of light), its total energy (frequency dependent), cannot take the value of 1/2h*f, since there's no such thing as a half-photon;

    c. The experiment referred in a. used photons as probes; we already know that there are no half-photons... and, according to the Special Theory of Relativity, no particle (even with zero rest-mass) can travell faster than the speed of light (as a matter of fact, only zero rest-mass particles can). So, even if any spooky action at a distance was/is to exist as a physical reality, it could never carry any faster-than-light information from point A to B without the faster-than-light 1/2h*f, that is, half a quantum, for instance.

    Conclusion A: Quantum Mechanics is tougher to grasp than one could suppose (in the current case, see Entanglement);

    Conclusion B: Your suggestion can be considered an entangled state between Bell's inequalities & networking (which has information transportation hidden in it); and, you cannot have half-Bell's inequalities :D ;

    Finally, a disclaimer: This is a crude approach to the subject (QM) from another subjet (myself) whom's is not an expert... on both subjects! :wink:


    Cheers!
  41. Quote:
    We might have a problem with the mini Black Holes. This group is concerned that they may be unstoppable once created.


    :lol:
    There's - really - no such danger (possibility should be more appropriate, since a black-hole doesn't have to be a danger...).
    Gravity is about 10^34 times weaker (IIRC) than electromagnetism; even if the LHC (or other collider) could produce thousands per second, they would evaporate quite rapidly, as stated in the article, through Hawking radiation (that, would be dangerous!); secondly, there are very high density regions within our solar system (namely, at the Sun's core) & in its vicinity (other stars) which can achieve densities many orders of magnitude higher than any collider one can think of, for the next millenium (which would be different of taking advantage of an existing one; another matter, altogether).
    Lastly, even an ordinary particle can be considered a B-H (just imagine 0.511MeV - Mega electron Volts - in a point-like particle: an electron or positron!); it can do a lot of harm but, surely, it cannot eat you! :D


    Cheers!
  42. Quote:
    a. In 1983, Alain Aspect (et al) performed an experiment which concluded that, with a high but not absolute certainty!, Bell inequalities are violated (several experiments were performed since then, with the same results); so much for QM non-locality & hidden variables (http://perso.orange.fr/eric.chopin/epr/aspect.htm);

    b. Planck's equation for the photon's energy E is: E=h*f, where h is Planck's constant & f, frequency. One of the most important consequences of Planck's work is that, a quantum (h) cannot exist as free energy in sub-multiples of itself (like 1/2h, 1/3h, 1/4h,... 1/nh) but, rather, in integer multiples of itself (h, 2h, 3h,... nh), its total energy depending upon frequency, as well. For a zero rest-mass particle like the photon (a quantum of light), its total energy (frequency dependent), cannot take the value of 1/2h*f, since there's no such thing as a half-photon;

    c. The experiment referred in a. used photons as probes; we already know that there are no half-photons... and, according to the Special Theory of Relativity, no particle (even with zero rest-mass) can travell faster than the speed of light (as a matter of fact, only zero rest-mass particles can). So, even if any spooky action at a distance was/is to exist as a physical reality, it could never carry any faster-than-light information from point A to B without the faster-than-light 1/2h*f, that is, half a quantum, for instance.

    Conclusion A: Quantum Mechanics is tougher to grasp than one could suppose (in the current case, see Entanglement);

    Conclusion B: Your suggestion can be considered an entangled state between Bell's inequalities & networking (which has information transportation hidden in it); and, you cannot have half-Bell's inequalities :D ;


    Thanks for sharing this. While the suggestion of Bell's Theorem was tongue-in-cheek, I never heard of anyone refuting it. I've always heard it referred to as a "quantum anomoly" or "voodoo". I do appreciate this info.


    Quote:
    Finally, a disclaimer: This is a crude approach to the subject (QM) from another subjet (myself) whom's is not an expert... on both subjects! :wink:


    Is anyone truly an expert on QM?
    Those who don't know QM think they don't understand it, while those who know QM know they don't understand it. :?
  43. Quote:
    We might have a problem with the mini Black Holes. This group is concerned that they may be unstoppable once created.


    :lol:
    There's - really - no such danger (possibility should be more appropriate, since a black-hole doesn't have to be a danger...).
    Gravity is about 10^34 times weaker (IIRC) than electromagnetism; even if the LHC (or other collider) could produce thousands per second, they would evaporate quite rapidly, as stated in the article, through Hawking radiation (that, would be dangerous!); secondly, there are very high density regions within our solar system (namely, at the Sun's core) & in its vicinity (other stars) which can achieve densities many orders of magnitude higher than any collider one can think of, for the next millenium (which would be different of taking advantage of an existing one; another matter, altogether).
    Lastly, even an ordinary particle can be considered a B-H (just imagine 0.511MeV - Mega electron Volts - in a point-like particle: an electron or positron!);

    While I do respect the efforts of those concerned with possible outcomes of scientific research - I find it quite refreshing to see FUD spreading outside of this forum:
    Quote:
    Our goal is to prevent, and also make plans on surviving when possible, particle accelerator mishaps including quantum vacuum collapse, mining the quantum vacuum, formation of a stable stranglet, and the creation of artificial mini-black holes.

    http://lifeboat.com/ex/particle.accelerator.shield

    Quote:
    it can do a lot of harm but, surely, it cannot eat you! :D

    Get in my belly!!!

    Sorry, for some reason that last line brought an image of Fat Bastard from Austin Powers into my head. :oops:
  44. Quote:
    Thanks for sharing this. While the suggestion of Bell's Theorem was tongue-in-cheek, I never heard of anyone refuting it. I've always heard it referred to as a "quantum anomoly" or "voodoo". I do appreciate this info.

    Is anyone truly an expert on QM?
    Those who don't know QM think they don't understand it, while those who know QM know they don't understand it. :?


    You're welcome.
    Actually, Bell's inequalities are correct, in what concerns its formal structure (correlations between observed/measured experiments) and leads us, observers & integral parts of the experiment, to conclude that, if QM is a valid theory of reality, then it must be non-local (i. e., it must account for some spooky action at a distance, other than light's); experiments, such as Alain Aspect's, have confirmed that, measuring the photon's spin here (say, 1) will influence the outcome there (-1); and, it happens that way.
    But, QM is a local theory; that makes up for the "violation" of Bell's inequalities I mentioned in my previous post (and which might've mislead you; my fault); as you can see, the results achieved by the Bell inequalities vs QM vs Experiment don't match:

    Quote:
    The Bell-Freedman inequality say that Delta <=0. The experimental measurement leads to :
    Delta = 0.064 +/- 0.009
    Quantum Mechanics expects the following result :
    Delta = 0.059

    The BCHSH inequality states that S'<=0. The experimental measurement leads to :
    S' = 0.1 +/- 0.02
    Quantum Mechanics gives the value :
    S' = 0.12


    although QM vs Experiment do match (approx.).

    Again, Alain Aspect's experiment factually states that, if you measure photon A spin here, you know what the outcome will be, there, with photon B spin.


    Cheers!
  45. Quote:
    Get in my belly!!!

    Sorry, for some reason that last line brought an image of Fat Bastard from Austin Powers into my head. :oops:


    (hope you're not writing from the inside!) :D


    Cheers!
  46. So theoreticaly it is possible to transmit data faster then light ? If this is true then that would have tremendous value if/when we get FTL drives working. (Im leaning to the possibility that FTL is possible but we are just too dumb to figure it out yet) I realy need this FTL Broadband ! hmm it could be hell for pop ups and spam though (as it is my 10 or 15Mbp's doesnt give me much time to close the crap and I have to use a blocker lol)
  47. Quote:

    You're welcome.
    Actually, Bell's inequalities are correct, in what concerns its formal structure (correlations between observed/measured experiments) and leads us, observers & integral parts of the experiment, to conclude that, if QM is a valid theory of reality, then it must be non-local (i. e., it must account for some spooky action at a distance, other than light's); experiments, such as Alain Aspect's, have confirmed that, measuring the photon's spin here (say, 1) will influence the outcome there (-1); and, it happens that way.
    But, QM is a local theory; that makes up for the "violation" of Bell's inequalities I mentioned in my previous post (and which might've mislead you; my fault); as you can see, the results achieved by the Bell inequalities vs QM vs Experiment don't match:

    The Bell-Freedman inequality say that Delta <=0. The experimental measurement leads to :
    Delta = 0.064 +/- 0.009
    Quantum Mechanics expects the following result :
    Delta = 0.059

    The BCHSH inequality states that S'<=0. The experimental measurement leads to :
    S' = 0.1 +/- 0.02
    Quantum Mechanics gives the value :
    S' = 0.12


    although QM vs Experiment do match (approx.).

    Again, Alain Aspect's experiment factually states that, if you measure photon A spin here, you know what the outcome will be, there, with photon B spin.


    Cheers!

    At the risk of a complete dehibilitating brain aneurysm, could this be validating the pan-dimensionsal aspect of String Theory?
    Non-local or faster-than-light would not apply if two points that are miles apart in the third dimension - may occupy the same space in the, say, seventh dimesion.
    For a visual: Take a 12 inch strip of paper, and put a dot on each end. Fold the paper back on itself so the dots are back-to-back. In two-dimensional space, the dots are 12 inches apart, but in three-dimensional space, they are occupying the same point.

    Quote:
    Gravity is about 10^34 times weaker (IIRC) than electromagnetism

    There is also a theory that Gravity is the same strength as Electromagnetism. Gravity exists in all dimensions, thereby "dilluted", while the other forces are "dimension localised".

    As you can tell, I'm no expert on QM or String Theory. I'm in this for the intense headaches processing all this information causes. I believe this is called sado-mathisism.

    P.S. Don't feel obligated to reply. I know your time is valuable, and I appreciate the input you've already shared. I'm just speculating while watching the Notre Dame football game.
    (Since you're European:
    football = American football
    Notre Dame = famous University in South Bend, Indiana - so famous that they named a Cathedral after it in Paris :P
    I have no association with Notre Dame, other than it looks like they are going to lose me $50 :( )
  48. Quote:
    So theoreticaly it is possible to transmit data faster then light ? If this is true then that would have tremendous value if/when we get FTL drives working. (Im leaning to the possibility that FTL is possible but we are just too dumb to figure it out yet) I realy need this FTL Broadband ! hmm it could be hell for pop ups and spam though (as it is my 10 or 15Mbp's doesnt give me much time to close the crap and I have to use a blocker lol)


    :D
    Well, as far as Special Theory of Relativity goes, that limitation is valid when any material support is considered (do not forget the interplay E=mc^2); it also applies to Relativistic Quantum Mechanics, when, for instance, the frequency v of a quantum (hv) cannot take infinite values. However, QM allows for non-classical states (like entanglement...) which are perfectly described in mathematical terms & comply with a supperb exactitude with experimental behaviour; we still lack a metalanguage (a language which translates one into another, sort of a codec) which is able to describe, in our common-sense terms, the profound physical impact it implies, without recurring to philosofical analogies (& even, to metaphysics); for instance, take a look at "entanglement" in any dictionary and check if you understand it better now, in QM terms.
    I'll give you another example of how nature might work, without contradicting itself: One of the most striking & innovative ideas of the late last century (The Inflationary Model of the Universe, Alan H. Guth, 1980) in Cosmology /High-Energy Particle Physics, states that, the early inflationary period expanded superluminaly, meaning that two points in spacetime would become further apart at faster-than-light speeds. No material support involved; hence, no STR contradiction.

    So much for your FTL broadband carriers! :wink:


    Cheers!
  49. Quote:
    At the risk of a complete dehibilitating brain aneurysm, could this be validating the pan-dimensionsal aspect of String Theory?
    Non-local or faster-than-light would not apply if two points that are miles apart in the third dimension - may occupy the same space in the, say, seventh dimesion.


    :D
    Nope, QM doen't need extra dimensions to work consistently; a more general framework (like String/M-Theories) might need up to 11-D to try to unify General Relativity (GR) & QM; that's the odd thing: Being a local theory, QM is able to explain the influence between causally-disconnected regions (see Alain Aspect's experiment & the Tunnel Effect, for instance); that's also why [almost] every cosmologist is trying to mod GR, which fails at very small (Planck) scales. There are innumerous theories on Quantum Gravity, one of which, Quantum Loop Gravity, deals with a conventional 4-D spacetime.

    Quote:
    There is also a theory that Gravity is the same strength as Electromagnetism. Gravity exists in all dimensions, thereby "dilluted", while the other forces are "dimension localised".


    Well, not exactly; According to the [updated] Standard Model (SM) of the universe, it's thought that, at the beginning (T=0), there was a single, unified force which "diverged" with temperature, after the BB (it's called symmetry-breaking...).
    Brane-Theories, are generalizations of string ones (instead of a 1-D string, it's also considered 2-D surfaces, 3-D volumes & extrapolation to n-D spatial dimensions); Kaluza-Klein topologies allow some extra dimensions to be "curled up" & not being directly detectable; addressing your [pertinet] point, some Brane-Theories try to explain the seemingly weakness of Gravity in our own 3S + 1T dimensional spacetime through the existance of an extra spatial dimension (say, a fifth), where gravity is much more powerful (even more than electromagnetism, proportionately) but only shows its comparative feebleness in the conventional 4-D spacetime. Of couse, there's the non-trivial issue of detecting such extra dimension(s).

    I only hope we're not irritating the mods! :wink:

    Quote:
    (Since you're European:
    football = American football
    Notre Dame = famous University in South Bend, Indiana - so famous that they named a Cathedral after it in Paris :P


    :D
    I've always found it odd that American Football is called... well, football! It's mostly played with the hands, unlike soccer (a british term, by the way), the European Football (well, planetary, I should say).
    Hope you're lucky, this or next time! :wink:


    Cheers!
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