It really makes you think and say WTF?

"Politicians should serve two terms. One in office, and one in prison."

sadly it don't surprise me.

i even heard that due to the improvised weapons they use over there and the tanks not being equiped to deal with them properly, the soldiers bolt on any pieve of spare armour or metal they can because there isn't the money to afford proper armour upgrades.

i also read an article in the sunday times magazine about a merchant banker in the terratorial army(british) who was basically put in charge of the banking system in basra. he needed 48 Million or so and wondered how he could persuade the people in baghdad to give it to him. in the end when he asked they said yes with no hesitation. that sort of money was a drop in the ocean.

some crazy stuff happening.

**Awards PhukFace +5 Stars**
Amen!!!

youre an asshat. you wouldnt know courage if it came up and bit you in the ass. and you damn well wouldnt know sh[i][/i]it about bravery obviously.

you say noone is getting freedoms and it is getting alot worse since weve been there?

how the fu[i][/i]ck would you know? I just got back in december from over there(second time being there, and yes it has gotten a helluva lot better in fact). im guessing new schools, and national roads are not an improvement. i guess having the freedom to choose who you rulers are isnt freedom. i guess personal liberties that werent allowed to you before isnt freedom either?

youre a focking tool and a downright idiot for those comments.

so you can go on being "brave" sitting there at youre computer while these soldiers, airmen, and marines are being "pussies and no heroic" saving each other lives as well as saving the lives of a country that hasnt known certain freedoms before.

fu[i][/i]cking idiot. do some research and look sh[i][/i]it up before you start talking out the side of you mouth, you obviously have no clue what is going on over there, besides what youre precious news station are telling you. next time you want to be someone special, how about asking someone who has been there a couple of times before you start spouting bullsh[i][/i]it.

you might look a little smarter then, instead of looking like a total focktard right now.

have a nice day and enjoy youre freedoms to talk sh[i][/i]it about people who are giving/enforcing the rights that every man, woman, and child should have.

-cam

if thats all you can muster, so be it.

ok i'll bite.

you speak of freedoms. interesting.

what is the point of schools if you don';t know if you are going to be bombed the next day or if your family will be killed while attending that school

what is the point of national roads if you do not know they are safe to travel on.

what is the point of being able to decide on who is in power only have what their puppet masters allow.

what is the point of freedoms if your life or death depends on where you stay and what religion you are.

also, why Iraq. we KNOW, i.e it is proven that the reason were false.

why not china. since the second world war they have been FAR, FAR worse than iraq as havce alot of african countries and practically all regoins of the world. what has iraq done? turned on it s benefactors perhaps?

no, your points are countered by every bad thing going on there.

the soldiers are not brave, merely doing what they are told.

you have nothing to fight for, much to fight against yes, but nothing to fight for.

why dupe yourself into believeing that crap? make the pill easier to swallow?

You are not my type.

No we weren't.

Where do you get this freedom BS? Did we go over there and see how a democratic government would work? Nope. AAMOF, people are starting to drop out of it one by one as they know that they can get more for themselves in other means.

They did not want this, and we did not approach it correctly. All we wanted was a stronghold in the middle east that would releive our reliance on places like Saudi Arabia and Israel.

They are cannon fodder. 3000 of them have died for less than nothing. There is no freedom, and they are dead. More have died in this occupation than in the TOTALLY UNRELATED 9-11 incident, but yet the two are still used by those who don't know their foot from their ass.

And how the fuccc do you think we are doing anything well over there? Do you even read anything besides Fox.com?

Fucc off dipshit. You are meat. You are paid less than civvies to go over to secure oil interests. Don't like it? Tough. You are not serving your country, but a small group of people who thought it was in their best interest to invade and remove a leader that was giving them grief.

I know exactly what the real sacrifice is you fukknut. I never said I didn't. READ WHAT I SAID and realize that I am saying that it is a WORTHLESS SACRIFICE you mind-numbed diickweed.

Also, look up the definition of "liberal". Before the shiitheads in the GOP hate campaign started using it as a curse word, it simply meant "more willing to accept alternate viewpoints". So get your gun out of your arse and learn to talk with something beside what your superiors tell you to.

You mean the ones that you, in a uniform, go up and ask them?

They were ruled by a despot. They know how to lie to a guy with a gun.

But your mother sure is.

so sit in your fuc[i][/i]king little chair, typing away at your precious computer, whining about how something needs to be done, but dont do anything like the lot of you.

I see you are using thesaurus.com. You must know a lot of insutling words, probably from what your parents told you when you were a kid. Ever grow out of that little man?

Despite the fact that you are an ignorant hateful son of an ugly bitch, I still wish you a safe TOD and trip home.

I really detest your attitude, but it does not warrant your death.

BTW, go up and ask a Blackwater "employee" how much they make.

I am sure you will be so happy that the government is willing to pay them more than you.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en [...] ted+states

this is the most ridiculous thing you can say.

ok lets just say we are there because we are told to go(funny how many military personnel actually believe it IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO!)

And we are there getting killed and whatnot. so you are saying it is not bravery when you risk your life to save your brother in arms life? it is not bravery to patrol these unsafe streets you talk about, EVERYDAY? Thats not bravery? you are so full of it with that comment, but believe what you want to believe. in your life, you will never be a brave person, that I know is true.


on to the main points(as i know you jabs at someones bravery is just to get me riled.),

so it is better to not have the freedoms at all then to have to defend youre freedoms?

thats the only question I need to ask. How you answer will ultimately decide what kind of person you really are.

the question isnt what has Iraq done.... The question is what has their former corrupt gov't done.

1. Gas innocent Kurds.
2. Invade Kuwait to secure their position in the harbor along side of Iran.

Now we could go into the whole WMD debate if you want. (which even your leftwing fu[i][/i]ckheads agreed they were there.)

But I know it will end up with eventually saying, well wheres the proof? So I will go ahead and counter with where is the proof of their destruction?
Yes, we havent found anything significant as it pertains to WMDs. But we also havent found anything significant to the destruction of the WMDs, that we know they had. (Dont say we dont know if they had them, The prior regime has used them before)

like what rogue elements of orginizations blowing up schools and roads and such? Thats another reason we are there. To protect those while a stable non corrupt govt is setup. Surely you can see that right?

again that is false. I fight so people like you can talk bad about people like me. I fight for everyones right to believe what they want to believe. I fight so someday those people may have a stable less corrupt life, and can actually enjoy life.

just because you dont stand for anything, doesnt mean we all stand for nothing. Some people have the backbone to stand and others have the backbone to yap.

you have chosen youre side, and I have chosen mine.

Which is right? I have no clue. But I know I am making a difference, and you are just bitching.

The only thing that is hard to swallow here is the tons of BS you are trying to push down my throat. I dont need a reason to do what I fell is right. I guess helping out you fellow man(of all nations, creed, color, etc.) isnt something you believe in.

also you apparently cant take the fact that all sides of the govt (left and right) truly believed in the weapons.

Guess the left cant see through their own sh[i][/i]it sometimes.

Ah, the bastion of the insecure. To relate ones own disagreement to a level of proof of manhood.

If you want to believe that getting yourself killed in a conflict (a civil war we facilitated) is something you are doing for your country, you are truly being misled.

You were beaten down to believe that following orders and doing things the military way was truly being a man. Hate to say it, it is being a weapon. A sword to be swung by another arm that does not have concern for you as a person, but as a resource.

Says who? Some of these people have risked their lives in other ways. There are rescue personnel, cops, firemen, organ doners. They all put their lives at risk to help someone. Going in and startinga war that has killed more than the despot it removed is not helping anyone. Especially when diplomatic means were curbing him just fine.

(You don't believe that they were? What would have happened if Saddam was seen as weak by his enemies? Just what you are seeing now. SO immediate capitulation like a lap dog would not have been in his best interest. He would have been dead faster than his "peers" killed him at his "democratic" hanging.)

But you are losing track of the big picture. Savinga person in the street is one thnig, but causing the situation that made it necessary to save him is another.

Ah, struck a nerve there! And you do not even know the slightest of what I believe. You put your own words and feelings behind mine and see it coming from where you want it to.

I support you as a person, I do not want to see you die for this. I am tired of the lies, and really sick that they have fed you so much dis-information that you are willing to die for a corporate interest and NOT the safety of our own land and people.

Where did I say that you were meat to ME? Point it out please. You are putting words in my mouth.

You are a person, an individual, and deserve better treatment than a statistical analysis of success and failure based on losses and cost. But that is what you are! Your tags nothing more than a barcode to tell the people who find your body who you are. So that they can notify your family and bring you back with your own american flag, but not be allowed to be sen for fear it might ruin someones approval rating.

Another fallacy, ignoring the fact that I never said you were, but that you were being used as such, I can say that 90% of the stuff our military does today has little or no impact on my our freedoms. We are too much of a busybody in conflicts that we do not deserve to be in, have no buisness being in. It is not my safety that you are fightig for there, but our oil interests. Our foothold and military stronghold.

The men who fought for my freedoms died long before you and I were born, and I thank them for the fight they waged for them.

Wow, witty rebuttal. How old are you? 22? Try to come up with something more than HS level, will ya?



I hope you STAY alive.

now whose using the thesaurus.com.

I believed this before I was in the AF and I will believe it afterwards. Fighting for freedoms should not be called to question by"being beaten down by orders" Noone orders me to stand up for those in need. I did this willingly.

and some of those people fled to canada and some of those people rebelled against the USA by giving away SSN's to the vietcong, allowing MORE harm on the USA and her Soldiers.

And going back on your word to help is also another thing, dont you agree?

yes you struck a nerve you insult my mother because you had nothing to come back with. why? she has nothing to do with this. Well until you brought her into this.

thats what struck the nerve...

sure, you would rather me do nothing while others die(including innocents). right?

quick question then...

what about N. Korea and Iran? if it came to defense of our own land would you defend it?
also, what about the taliban(not the country afghanistan but those who initiated an attack) would you/could you be ready to fight, considering they DID attack us on our home soil?

now granted you did not Actually say that I am meat to you, no. But when you reply that in the forums and it comes from your account you are implying that yes, I am meat to you. Semantics are boring so dont try to take back or twist what you JUST previously said.

this also affirms above point.

again see above comment about the Taliban. That was in our interest.

Actually a little older. and you can consider me as an unintelligent spoonfed troop supporting "Foxnews"(who I truly despise because of the bias, just so you know) and the GOP. But in all actuality, Im an Electrical Engineering Student in Auburn, Alabama. The military was a means to pay for my school as well as my wifes schooling. I hope you do realize that I am not as dumb as you take me to be, but just passionate about my beliefs, especially when someone tells me some of the best people in the world and some of the best friends/brothers in the world died for nothing. Thats harsh, hopefully you can see it from my point of view, as I am willing to look at it from your point of view, We may disagree but that is our rights, if we didnt man what a difficult time it would be as we would not have free thinking, and I do honestly believe that would suck balls. As for my comment about you having a nice life, it wasnt meant to be a witty response, trust me, these folks around here know I can "come up" with alot more things wittier than that, I was honestly wishing you a nice life.

Clinton said at the end of his Final term in office that Saddam was a threat and NEEDED to be taken out. Those honestly dont sound like innocent inspections to me.

and the yellow cake is fine, thank you very much...

Taking points out of context. I see how golden boy Bush (Mr. "Daddy transfer me away from than nasty Vietnam conflict" ) and "Waah" Cheney (Mr. 4H meow mewo) have tought you how to make an indefensible point retainable.

To the people who make the decisions of where you go, for how long, and why, yuo are a resource, just like meat.

They do not want to lose you anymor than they want to lose their property, but a fact is a fact. They are as heartless as the Auto Manufacturers and their cost estimates of how much a safety feature will cost to impliment verses thecost they would have if someone got hurt and blamed them. Hel, many big names do this.

And if our government is being controlled by these people, these lobbies, you think they have a different attitude when it comes to our military forces?


I never said Cut and Run. I never said that we should just drop the people in the pile of crap we laid for them. But bringnig up "helping others" as a reason for going over and ignoring the fact that we are the noes that destabalized the region (mostly from our lack of understanding of how this conglomeration of radically different religious doctrined individuals were only kept from fighting each other from fear of angering another). Bringing that up while ignoring the rest is playing with blinders on.

If that is what you need to keep your spirits up while you are over ther, so be it. Keep insulting those that you disagree with with no real basis of fact or reason.




I also find it so interesting that any time I wish you safe journey, you see it as some sort of insult. If you cannot take best wishes from the people you disagree with, your life will always be filled with conflict, even when you are no longer holding a gun.

as you did with me man... as you did with me...

agreed, that is why we can NEVER take away our 2nd amendment rights.

I do think that you've got Democracy confused with theocracy ... you should know better.

Damnit .. that was an Editorial without any fuc[b][/b]king proofs. We did not "loose" in Vietnam, because of the "political winds", we walked away. We're not "losing" Afghanistan ... the taliban is not necessarily throwing parades in town now are they?

Iraq is a mess, but it's a mess without Hussein (we saw him hung ) - now, if all the political opportunists will stop micro-managing the dissent, then, perhaps, the "parties involved" might finally realize some balance. I don't see the U.S. pulling out of Iraq until the majority of Iraqis tell us they can handle the situation.

And I hope it's not like we shamed ourselves in Vietnam.

one quick note,

i dont think we shamed ourselves, although i think we might have bit off a bit more than we could chew. again my stance will always be for helping those out of things that cant do themselves.

one quick note,

i dont think we shamed ourselves, although i think we might have bit off a bit more than we could chew. again my stance will always be for helping those out of things that cant do themselves.

I wasn't referring to the soldiers, I was referring to the politicians ..who promised the South Vietnamese that we would continue to financially support them, then our democrat (small fu*king d) controlled Congress cut off funding ... and we've all seen the film of what happened.

Tell that to the parents, sons, daughters, wives, or husbands of those that lost their lives.

Don't you EVER disgrace those brave Soldiers, Sailors, Marines, Airmen, and others that are heroes ENOUGH to go do their jobs in a foreign land. If you want to blame someone, then blame the politicians. Those men and women who died, DIED while doing what THEY were supposed to be doing.

Those 3,000 lost lives were RED BLOODED AMERICANS! Don't you EVER forget that! They DIED to fight for what THEY believe in. What are YOU willing to die for? Those men and women gave the ULTIMATE SACRIFICE for what they believe in. Can you even give half that?

Maybe if you served, you would have a better appreciation for what they do, but it is obvious that you won't. In case you can't figure it out, here's a tip. Watch the movie Blackhawk Down. Pay specific attention to THIS quote....

Maybe, if you understand that quote, then you will begin to realize what I am trying to say.

Until then, at least give the American SOLDIER, SAILOR, MARINE, AIRMAN or the others that are/were there the RESPECT they deserve. They earned it. They died for you and me and NOTHING less.

Where's my fucking tank? I want a King Tiger.

And there aren't human rights violations over here?

Ahmadinejad may be a hardliner, but take notice of the fact that the "wingnuts" are, even though the most vocal part of the government, are actually in the minority. As true democracy progresses in Iran, and mind you the country is still only around 30 years old, and actually takes a place on the word scene, said violations actually decreased. The role of human rights grops and voices of reason (and peace) win out.

As for their elections, like I said, may not like his positions, but among the Iranian people, he is popular, and also elected by a sizable and unquestionable margin. And FYI, very few, in fact only around 7% of Muslims would even consider electing or even tolerating bin Laden.

The fact remains, that if the US drops the pretenses of a hard line and actually start dialogue and such with Iran, things can look up. And with announcements of such today, the cooler heads, and not those spitting rhetoric can actually get something done.

Tell that to the parents, sons, daughters, wives, or husbands of those that lost their lives.

I am.

You are mixing messages again.

So the 150K people we sent to an unstable region that had no real threat to us in the US was a worthwhile endeavor for the "peace and security" of the Iraqi people? BS.

That sentiment only came about AFTER we did not find any WMDs.

Saying that they are cannon fodder is not insulting them. It is pointing the finger of blame at our leaders that will throw our troops into a situation that had all the top military brass, Colin Powell included, rolling their eyes at the inevitable consequences of such a poorly planned endeavor.

They died for what they were TOLD to believe in. They died because someone LIED to them. Now how is that calling them a non-red blooded American.

You need to wrap that flag around you a little less tightly, your brain needs more oxygen.

You mean the movie where troops use fireworks disguised as grenades to blow up trucks? Yeah. What about Patton, Tora Tora Tora, Full Metal Jacket? You are getting all puffed up and throwing your fire at someone who is not even insulting the ones you are trying to defend.

Why? that is what the politicians have been engineering. That somehow if you reject the decisions made by the top leaders, that somehow you are not American and you are not supporting the troops.

The two are separate issues, and until people like you can discern one from the other, you will always get up in arms whenever someone challenges your rather weak justifications for going into the war in the first place.

You need to read what someone is saying before you get all up in yourself.

You want to send more troops out? Why don't we send more of the national guard! We don't need them HERE helping us with things like that F5 tornado or anything.

No, send them off to be an occupational force in a civil war. Oh, and say it is for some noble cause because all of your original reasons were proven to be full of shhhhhhaving cream.

The Persecution of Bahá'ís in Iran -and- More Details Here
Anti Gay Executions
Atefeh Rajabi Sahaaleh

I think there have been human rights abuses everywhere, but on this scale? And for these reasons?

Tell me what you compare these (and thousands of others) systemic, barbaric practices of the Iran govenment to? The purported water boarding of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed?

In no way do I condone any of that crap, but the fact remains, besides Israel, Iran has the best chances of being a actually healthy democracy.

I think what everyone has to realize is that they do have a COMPARITIVELY democratic society for the area, but it is far from what many nations have today.

I think we need more diplomacy to try to handle it though.

When you form a Democarcy from an area that has lived under religious rule for so long, it takes time for it to truly find and assert itself. Otherwise you get what we are getting in Iraq with whats-his-face-black-turban-guy pulling his support from the current governmental establishment.

Not saying that he would be great to have on the congress or any decision making body, but when you have even the radicals with some representation in government, you stand less of a chance of them shooting at you.