P5W DH Deluxe and RAID 1

lendude

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Hi all,

Very noobish question here. I am planning to go with the P5W DH Deluxe and C2D as the basis of a new system.

A question re: RAID1 setup:

I plan to install a standalone single WD Raptor 36GB SATAII HD for the OS, and 2 x WD SE16 250GB SATA II HDs in RAID1 for all data, all on the ICH7 (it supports 3 SATA connections correct?).

Can I install the Raptor and OS (XP) first, and then install the 2 SE16s and create the RAID1 via the BIOS option setup afterwards? Do I need to use the F6 procedure to load the RAID drivers at the initial OS load even tho' I'm not going to use them until later?

Or do I need to get this all setup at the initial install of the OS?

Any suggestions and recommended procedures would be appreciated - cheers.

L
 

darkstar782

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Easiest thing to do is put the RAID1 on the Silicon Image controller (the EZ-Backup one).

This defaults to RAID1 mode and needs no configuration and no drivers.

As your system drive is not any form of RAID you are free to do it in any order you wish, you can set up the RAID array in a months time if you like, and you dont need to do any F6 driver installation, the EZ-Backup option shouldnt need any drivers, and the ICH7R option can have drivers installed when windows is up and running.
 

pgarnold

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Lendude,

I just finished setting up this exact same configuration on my new system, so here are a few pointers. Some of the documentation from ASUS is not totally understandable for your situation and some from Intel is misleading or wrong. So:

First step is to attach all 3 sata drives to the SATA1 (red connector) for Raptor, SATA3 and SATA4 (black connectors) for your RAID1 pair. You are right to use the ICH7R for all 3 because these are the fastest ones on the motherboard. The EZ-RAID (orange) connectors use the missing SATA2 connector, also attached to the ICH7R but SHARE that connection, e.g., both sata drives have to work through the one SATA2 port. This is a potential bottleneck for your data drives and that is why you don't want to use them. Hope this makes sense.

Step2: go into the bios and change the "IDE Configuration" on the main screen and change to "RAID", save, exit and reboot the system. At the end of the boot sequence, you will see the option to enter the Intel Matrix Storage Manager by hitting Ctrl "I". You should see all 3 disks with type non-RAID. Go through the exercise to designate the 2 data disks for your RAID1 pair, save, exit, and continue with a new install of Windows using F6 to load RAID drivers. Please get the latest drivers for RAID and for the Intel Matrix Storage Manager from the Intel website. They both come in the same item downloaded from Intel. See http://www.intel.com/support/chipsets/imsm/sb/CS-022648.htm#4 for more details and to get a copy of the latest drivers.

NOTE: when doing the F6, make sure you select the ICH7R for RAID driver. You have to scroll down off screen which is not obvious. It is kind of hidden. Use the RAID drivers for both your single sata drive (raptor) and for the RAID set. AHCI is sata but not RAID so it can't be used when mixing RAID and non-RAID sata drives.

Step 3: complete your windows setup. You will notice that your 2 data drives are not available. You need to now load the Intel Matrix Storage Manager from within Windows to make this all work. Once that is done, go to the IMSM and initialize and then format your data set. NOTE: Setting the disks in Step 2 for the data set DOES NOT CARRY OVER to data sets on which the OpSystem is not loaded. You may be able to just skip that part of step 2, I don't know since I didn't go back and erase the Ctrl "I" setup once I discovered that the fix was done within Windows.

The IMSM has a lot of very nice features including monitoring of your disks for detection of early failure, data integrity (due to system crashes) that automatically fix and repair themselves, etc.

Good Luck,

Paul
 

darkstar782

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I didnt realise the EZ-RAID worked as a port multiplier, but I hardly think two drives in a RAID1 (not even RAID0) array are ever going to saturate 300MiB/s anyway :p
 

lendude

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Hi guys,

Hey, many thanks for the quick replies - much appreciated.

darkstar782 - Thanks for the feedback. I had thought about using the SI controller to make it easy but what I'd read seemed to indicate it was a relatively poor performer compared to the ICH7R so I was hoping someone had come up with an answer...

...which you did Paul. Thanks so much man - you are a god! You're right - I had read the P5W manual and couldn't figure out how to use the ICH7R for a non-RAID single and RAID1 at the same time - I was getting to think it wasn't possible and would have to resort to the OS Raptor on the ICH7R and the RAID1 on the SI controller!! There's no way I would have thought that the Intel RAID drivers could be used for both the Raptor and the RAID set - I was trying to think how I could F6 the RAID drivers and have both work and it didn't seem rational to my rather limited knowledge! So you're a life saver - can't wait to get the board and goodies and get started!

What cpu have you got and have you tried an OC yet? *Woops - just read your sig, which answers both the above questions :oops: )

Cheers,
L
 

pgarnold

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darkstar782,

I tend to agree with you on the speed. A lot of what I have read indicates there is little difference in going for SATA II over SATA I in actual performance. The prices for the two are almost the same as well.

Here is something I found on another thread:

Re: P5W DH Deluxe-Lets make it certain;best way of Raid0?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

yeah i know how you feel when i first had mine i was running on the ez raid ...
and was ok but not stunning ... then i tried the intel raid and had quite a jump .... if i remember the figures....

burst speed .....
ez raid - 191 mb/s
intel raid 330 mb/s

just to note... im not running raptors 2x hitachi 250 drives.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now this is for a RAID 0 setup which is not directly comparable but it does point out that there is at least one area where the EZ-RAID is not as fast as the directly connected disks. The question then is, could you tell the difference if one didn't have a way to measure, using only one's "feeling".

Probably not in most cases on normal daily use. The EZ_RAID does do everything in hardware and thus takes load off of the CPU, which is a nice feature. Of course if your running a Conroe, you probably have a few cycles to spare. :lol:

Paul
 

darkstar782

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Yes but burst speed is just to the Cache of the drive, so lets say 32MiB (2*16MiB) on a RAID 0 array,

Given that 32MiB will take ~97ms to fill on the Intel before you are limited by the speed of the drive, and will take ~167ms to fill on the EZ-Raid, you are loosing such a small amount of time that its irrelevent imho :)

Burst transfer rates mean nothing really, on reading there is rarely a cache hit and its only applicable on writing if you are writing a very small amount of data (less than the cache size assuming the cache is empty).

Still, I'm not 100% sure how SATA port multipliers work, having never used one, or even seen a real one untill now, and it could be that they have nasty negative affects when trying to access both drives on the same port at the same time, as adding two drives to a PATA cable (even ATA/133 which should be fast enough for most drives) does.

Given that fact, or rather, that unknown quantity, I'd probably agree that the Intel ICH7R is the best option unless:

1. You already have a Windows install on the single drive and cant be bothered to reinstall with drivers etc.

2. You want to keep the SATA ports on the ICH7R for future expandabilty, seeing as the SI controller can only do RAID0, RAID1, and JBOD of two disks AFAIK (havent actually tried this controller), and you may wish to add a single drive in the future, or an SATA optical drive like the Plextor PX-760SA
 

wilcofan

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Hey all,

I'm trying to get my P5W DH Deluxe up and running in a hard drive setup like the one described in this thread. A Raptor on the OS and two SATA Barracuda's in Raid1.

Avoiding the single Silicon Image bus for both drives is my first instinct in favor of the Intel although under 1011 original bios I could not even use the EZ-Backup setup, it wouldn't recognize the Barracuda's in XP.

I've updated the bios to 1407 and have read everything I can find and feel I've got the procedure correct for setting up RAID. I've got the latest Intel Matrix Storage drivers on a Floppy for the F6 part.

Problem: the Intel Matrix Option ROM page always shows up incomplete. It only shows the top two lines and never gives me the option to CTRL+i. The message shows up consistently on reboots but no option ever.

Anybody seen this?

Thanks,
Bobby
 

pgarnold

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Wilcofan,

Suggest you just skip the F6 and control "I" part. I am not sure that is really needed for your situation. The important part, and what finally worked for me in my similiar setup, was to load the Intel Matrix Storage Manager in Windows after Windows was completely installed. This is just like loading some other Windows program, going through a standard install. Windows won't see your RAID data set before you load the IMSM.

Once IMSM is loaded you will see the disk drives you want for the RAID set. It is at this point that you need to initialize each one (I think by clicking on their names in a table you will see - left colume) and then you can designate them as a RAID set and after than format them.

What I found was that setting up with the control "I" at boot HAD NO EFFECT on any RAID set if it was not the data set to which the opsys was loaded. Since you are loading your opsys to a Raptor (as I did) and the Raptor is not a RAID set all the control "I" setup stuff doesn't work for your RAID data set.

Good Luck,

Paul
 

wilcofan

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Thanks,

One thing about what you suggest, don't I have to set the IDE Configuration to RAID before install?

If I don't set them to RAID I can't launch the Intel Matrix Manager later on, right?

If I do set them to RAID I can't instal XP without formatting the drives through the Intel Matrix beforehand, right?

Confused,
Bobby
 

pgarnold

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Wilcofan,

You need to set the IDE Configuration to "RAID" and then do the install of Windows using F6 to load the RAID drivers. Make sure you scroll down to get the correct driver since it will be off-screen and it won't be obvious.

Since you are plugging all 3 SATA disk drives into the connectors labeled SATA1, SATA3, SATA4 (all connected to the ICH7R south bridge) and this is controlled by the settings in IDE Configuration, RAID is the proper setting and driver to use. There is also a setting and drivers for AHCI but this is only for single SATA drives. Your single Raptor will be able to use the RAID drivers as well as the AHCI. The AHCI will NOT work for your RAID set, so you must use RAID for all drives.

You will NOT be able to see your RAID1 drives in Windows until after you install the Intel Matrix Storage Manager. So the possibility exists that when you load the IMSM, it will reload the RAID drivers anyway, so it can see your RAID set. You will be able to launch the IMSM even if you don't have a RAID set attached. In fact you have to define the set as a RAID set in IMSM, so the system won't know they are a RAID set until this is done. Defining the set using Control "I" does NOT work if the dataset is not used for the OpSys. This last point was the one that drove me crazy because it was NOT documented in anything I read.

There are a few paths here that I did NOT take to answer your questions. I did define the RAID1 set using Control "I" but after Windows was loaded, I could not see anything. After I loaded the IMSM as an application in Windows, I was finally able to see my RAID disks. There were NOT identified as RAID however. They were just 2 new disk drives that the system now finally saw. Both of my disks were setup as a RAID1 set on a previous system I had. Windows and IMSM did NOT see that way, however, and required that I initialize each disk, redefine as a RAID set, and then reformat before they became usable.

I hope this clarifies things, Good Luck,

Paul
 

jamesgoddard

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Can I chip in here, and add that when using RAID1 the Sil4723 (EZ_RAID) chip is by far the best option.

I saw a full test the other day that compared the performance of the EZ_RAID to the Intel Matrix RAID of the southbridge, when using RAID1, they are identical except the EZ_RAID has lower CPU usage. I will try and find this article.. (EDIT) just found the article - "In short, RAID 1 performance of the SteelVine chip is on par with ICH7 RAID performance and at slightly less CPU utilization" http://www.hothardware.com/viewarticle.aspx?page=2&articleid=863&cid=3

The single 300MBs connector to the southbridge is not a performance bottleneck as the Sil4723 handles the mirroring load, and thus presents the uplink as a single drive, the data volume between the Sil4723 and the southbridge is no greater than a single drive on this port.

CPU load when using the Sil4723 is much lower, as again this chip handles the mirroring IO..

There are other benefits to the Sil4723, like automatic failover, automatic rebuild of new disks etc, less admin overhead. In all you would be mad not to use it.
 

wilcofan

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Hey guys,

Turns out I had a bad hard drive. That's why the Intel page wouldn't fully load and offer the "CTRL+i" option when set under RAID in the bios.

Thanks for the replies.
Bobby
 

icecoldpbr843

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I need some help with RAID as well.

I am building the ultimate MythTV setup. I will be using the same motherboard (Asus P5W DH) and a Core 2 Duo E6400. My case will hold up to 6 hard drives. I want to be able to store as much digital media as humanly possible while maintaining a RAID setup to ensure my data is safe.

I propose to buy six (6) Western Digital Caviar SE 16 750 GB hard drives and set them up in a RAID 1 configuration (for total redundancy). My biggest problem is that I won't have enough money to buy all 6 drives at once. Is it possible to start with 2 drives (configured in RAID 1) and add the remaining 4 drives at a later time?

Thanks!
 

dips

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I have to resurrect this thread. I set-up a similar set-up using both the Ctrl-I and F6 approach. My OS is windows 2003. Upon booting, as mentioned, only my OS drive appears in My Computer. Upon opening intel matrix storage console, the raid array i created in Ctrl-I set-up already appeared as a RAID 1 set-up.

Am I missing something? How do I get windows to recognize the raid set? Should I try to delete the raid array and re-make it so that windows will recognize it?

Any help would be appreciated.