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Boycott HP Products

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Anonymous
a b α HP
January 20, 2005 7:47:02 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

About a year ago, I purchased a HP (Compaq) iPAQ h5550 and paid ~ 650.
I upgraded my 3835 unit and was told by HP that they would be
supporting Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition (Landscape mode), later
to find out that they retracted that statement. At the time they
retracted the statement, my unit was only 6 months old. The iPAQ's are
overpriced to begin with, but how can HP expect a person to spend $650
every 6 months or even a year. As a computer reseller, I no longer sell
or buy HP products (including printers!). Hind sight, I should have
bought a Dell Axiom instead. I encourage others to boycott HP as well.
They used to be the leader in printers, but there are so many other
manufacturers out there that build a better printer. Now as far as
technical support goes, you all know what I mean! I shouldn't have to
learn another language. This is America, isn't it?

More about : boycott products

Anonymous
a b α HP
January 20, 2005 12:27:21 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Reply to message from jstefani@gmail.com (Thu, 20 Jan 2005 07:47:02) about
""Boycott HP Products"":

j> About a year ago, I purchased a HP (Compaq) iPAQ h5550 and paid ~ 650.
j> I upgraded my 3835 unit and was told by HP that they would be
j> supporting Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition (Landscape mode), later
j> to find out that they retracted that statement. At the time they
j> retracted the statement, my unit was only 6 months old. The iPAQ's are
j> overpriced to begin with, but how can HP expect a person to spend $650
j> every 6 months or even a year. As a computer reseller, I no longer sell
j> or buy HP products (including printers!). Hind sight, I should have
j> bought a Dell Axiom instead. I encourage others to boycott HP as well.
j> They used to be the leader in printers, but there are so many other
j> manufacturers out there that build a better printer. Now as far as
j> technical support goes, you all know what I mean! I shouldn't have to
j> learn another language. This is America, isn't it?

Compaq was bought out, yet the transition was extremely smooth, with the
exception that a few models did not get the updates they would have
otherwise - of course a few plans did change.

The pocket pc I use most is my cheapest one to date, about half of the
price you quote, complete with wifi, blue tooth, etc. I would be bitter too
if I consistently overbought in a volatile industry, but I wouldn't
complain about the optional decision.

There have been plenty of posts about the x30 losing dominance to the x50
within weeks, but I did not see someone screaming for a boycott.

Hate that you had trouble, but calling for a boycott is stronger language
than is called for given the reasoning you provide.

BTW, here in America you really need to be bilingual if you want to see the
whole country.
Anonymous
a b α HP
January 20, 2005 1:47:50 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

jstefani@gmail.com wrote:
> About a year ago, I purchased a HP (Compaq) iPAQ h5550 and paid ~ 650.
> I upgraded my 3835 unit and was told by HP that they would be
> supporting Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition (Landscape mode), later
> to find out that they retracted that statement. At the time they
> retracted the statement, my unit was only 6 months old. The iPAQ's are
> overpriced to begin with, but how can HP expect a person to spend $650
> every 6 months or even a year.

No you shouldn't. Think of it just like a cell phone, not like a computer
that needs constant patches or upgrades. Why do you need top of the line
softwear every 6 months? Thats like saying i want hp to give my h5550
screen an upgrade because its not VGA like the hx4705.

They shouldn't have lied to you back then, though.

> As a computer reseller, I no longer
> sell or buy HP products (including printers!). Hind sight, I should
> have bought a Dell Axiom instead. I encourage others to boycott HP as
> well.

That's your perogative. I happen to love HP handhelds. Dell is good too,
but the new ipaqs are so sleek.
So you want us to boycott because they don't provide upgrades for the OS
every month?

> They used to be the leader in printers, but there are so many
> other manufacturers out there that build a better printer. Now as
> far as technical support goes, you all know what I mean! I shouldn't
> have to learn another language. This is America, isn't it?

They still do have one of the best printers. And yes, as far as technical
support goes, alot of companies are importing tech support. Hell, dell has
been doing it for the last 4 years. I don't like it either, but it's
cheeper for them. And last I checked, they are out to make money.

Ryan
Related resources
Anonymous
a b α HP
January 20, 2005 3:01:05 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

The other day, I went to 31 flavors. I asked for a peanut butter and
chocolate scoop on a regular cone. After I paid good money for it ($1.75)! I
drove away. Well, I wanted to eat it before it melted AND I didn't want my
wife to know that I was eating ice-cream again, so I started licking away in
the car as I drove onward. I must have been a good 5 miles down the road
when I started to notice that this particular peanut butter and chocolate
ice-cream had very little peanut butter because I hadn't really tasted any
yet. As I was coming to the end of the delicious treat I realized that THEY
in fact LIED to me and this cone didn't have an ounce of peanut butter!
Being as it was to late to return the cone, I felt as if I had been made a
complete fool. The humanity! Well I for one will never buy nor sell another
31 flavors cone in my life..... unless they have a sale....or build one next
to my office..... or......

<jstefani@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1106225222.749628.69840@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> About a year ago, I purchased a HP (Compaq) iPAQ h5550 and paid ~ 650.
> I upgraded my 3835 unit and was told by HP that they would be
> supporting Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition (Landscape mode), later
> to find out that they retracted that statement. At the time they
> retracted the statement, my unit was only 6 months old. The iPAQ's are
> overpriced to begin with, but how can HP expect a person to spend $650
> every 6 months or even a year. As a computer reseller, I no longer sell
> or buy HP products (including printers!). Hind sight, I should have
> bought a Dell Axiom instead. I encourage others to boycott HP as well.
> They used to be the leader in printers, but there are so many other
> manufacturers out there that build a better printer. Now as far as
> technical support goes, you all know what I mean! I shouldn't have to
> learn another language. This is America, isn't it?
>
Anonymous
a b α HP
January 20, 2005 5:20:07 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

You cannot buy a Dell "Axiom". Dell sells a line that they have branded
"AXIM", but I could not find a single reference to a line called "Axiom".

Bobby

"MobileRick" <rcr682k2@email.wintu.edu> wrote in message
news:uOv2zjx$EHA.2032@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> The other day, I went to 31 flavors. I asked for a peanut butter and
> chocolate scoop on a regular cone. After I paid good money for it ($1.75)!
> I
> drove away. Well, I wanted to eat it before it melted AND I didn't want
> my
> wife to know that I was eating ice-cream again, so I started licking away
> in
> the car as I drove onward. I must have been a good 5 miles down the road
> when I started to notice that this particular peanut butter and chocolate
> ice-cream had very little peanut butter because I hadn't really tasted any
> yet. As I was coming to the end of the delicious treat I realized that
> THEY
> in fact LIED to me and this cone didn't have an ounce of peanut butter!
> Being as it was to late to return the cone, I felt as if I had been made a
> complete fool. The humanity! Well I for one will never buy nor sell
> another
> 31 flavors cone in my life..... unless they have a sale....or build one
> next
> to my office..... or......
>
> <jstefani@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1106225222.749628.69840@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> About a year ago, I purchased a HP (Compaq) iPAQ h5550 and paid ~ 650.
>> I upgraded my 3835 unit and was told by HP that they would be
>> supporting Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition (Landscape mode), later
>> to find out that they retracted that statement. At the time they
>> retracted the statement, my unit was only 6 months old. The iPAQ's are
>> overpriced to begin with, but how can HP expect a person to spend $650
>> every 6 months or even a year. As a computer reseller, I no longer sell
>> or buy HP products (including printers!). Hind sight, I should have
>> bought a Dell Axiom instead. I encourage others to boycott HP as well.
>> They used to be the leader in printers, but there are so many other
>> manufacturers out there that build a better printer. Now as far as
>> technical support goes, you all know what I mean! I shouldn't have to
>> learn another language. This is America, isn't it?
>>
>
>
Anonymous
a b α HP
January 20, 2005 5:24:46 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Hum...

Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. A couple notes:

1. HP might be one of the top consumer printer companies however they barley
scratch the surface when it comes to commercial printing.

2. Now that Compaq and HP are one I'd have to say the company is more known
for it's servers and network components.

3. I'd doubt you'll convince many people to stop buying their $5,000+ top of
line, industry best servers because of a PPC issue/spat.
Anonymous
a b α HP
January 20, 2005 11:13:59 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 10:47:50 -0500, "DarkSheer"
<rdettl@____dundee.net> wrote:

>So you want us to boycott because they don't provide upgrades for the OS
>every month?
I would point out when the PPC came out with a flashable ROM the
promise from all these manufacturers was that you could upgrade your
device rather than buying a new one. I didn't see any manufacturer
going out of their way to say they would *****NOT**** provide upgrades
when new OSs come out.

When they advertised the flashable ROM they all but promised an
upgrade path.

That in my book is bait and switch.

If xxxxxx business in this state did that the federal government
and the state government would force them to pay millions in
fines. (If you bought a Ford Taurus in 2001 and Ford refused to
sell you new tires they would be in deep trouble with the government.)


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Anonymous
a b α HP
January 20, 2005 11:36:51 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

On 20 Jan 2005 04:47:02 -0800, jstefani@gmail.com wrote:

>About a year ago, I purchased a HP (Compaq) iPAQ h5550 and paid ~ 650.
>I upgraded my 3835 unit and was told by HP that they would be
>supporting Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition (Landscape mode), later
>to find out that they retracted that statement. At the time they
>retracted the statement, my unit was only 6 months old. The iPAQ's are
>overpriced to begin with, but how can HP expect a person to spend $650
>every 6 months or even a year.
One word: stockholders.

Another word: money

http://quote.morningstar.com/Quote.html?ticker=HPQ

The bottom line: the stockholders/CEO/board of directors want you
to buy a new device rather than upgrade your old device.

They want their revenue stream to continue. It's all about the
money.



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
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Anonymous
a b α HP
January 20, 2005 11:36:52 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 09:27:21 -0500, xTenn
<xtennremovethispart@tds.net> wrote:
>Hate that you had trouble, but calling for a boycott is stronger language
>than is called for given the reasoning you provide.
As a former HP user who went over to the dark side.....Dell, I say go
for it.

Over the years HP has done everything in it's power to encourage users
like me to migrate to Dell. IMHO the final straw came when Dell
offered to sell me a BETTER device for A MUCH LOWER PRICE.

I paid alot less for the Dell product and got a much better quality
device than the HP.


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---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
Anonymous
a b α HP
January 20, 2005 11:46:37 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

On 20 Jan 2005 04:47:02 -0800, jstefani@gmail.com wrote:

>About a year ago, I purchased a HP (Compaq) iPAQ h5550 and paid ~ 650.
>I upgraded my 3835 unit and was told by HP that they would be
>supporting Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition (Landscape mode)

The WM2003SE release date was only mentioned 6 months ago, so how do
you get 'about a year ago you were told this' ? \Me thinks you're
exaggerating to make your point.

> , later
>to find out that they retracted that statement. At the time they
>retracted the statement, my unit was only 6 months old. The iPAQ's are
>overpriced to begin with, but how can HP expect a person to spend $650
>every 6 months or even a year. As a computer reseller, I no longer sell
>or buy HP products (including printers!). Hind sight, I should have
>bought a Dell Axiom instead.

Well, that wouldn't have helped - we're in the same boat.

I got stiffed twice, once when the european X3i's came with bluetooth
for no cost- about 3 weeks after I got mine new, and once when they
wouldn't update the ROM to 2003SE so I'd have to buy an X30 if I
wanted it.

>They used to be the leader in printers, but there are so many other
>manufacturers out there that build a better printer. Now as far as
>technical support goes, you all know what I mean! I shouldn't have to
>learn another language. This is America, isn't it?

Err, no not here, it's the UK. In fact you're the first american I've
seen round these parts, stranger. You need to can that parochial
attitude you have there fella.
Anonymous
a b α HP
January 21, 2005 12:16:31 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Reply to message from Amy Gray <JudgeAmyGrayNOSPAM@hotmail.com> (Thu, 20
Jan 2005 20:13:59) about ""Re: Boycott HP Products"":

AG> If you bought a
AG> Ford Taurus in 2001 and Ford refused to sell you new tires they would
AG> be in deep trouble with the government.)

Oh great- another car thing... ;) 

How about a ford that you can change an engine in in case something breaks
or is recalled from the factory, but you can't put the next year's model
engine in. Or would you insist that they spend the bucks and make the new
engine backwards compatible?

I hate it too, but with a hardware change I can understand the extra
development effort needed to make an upgrade. Perhaps there should be a
reasonably priced upgrade (not unlike recent compaq for the 3835) to
counter this? Would there be a strong enough market to warrant this?

I do have to wonder who spawns the major OS changes, since it appears to be
Microsoft, not the individual manufacturers. The time to retrofit the
previous models is proportional to the changes in the OS, so I wonder how
many changes there are in 2005? How many new features would have to be
removed or changed depending on the hardware of the particular retrofitted
unit? As in the case of VGA or landscape support is it even possible
without major rewrites of portions? If they made the changes, is there much
danger in software reading the version and attempting to us the very
features not present, prompting massive discontent with paying customers
and requiring high priced quick development patches?

Besides, there is no way that V8 is going to work woth that 4 cylinder
transmission - especially if they are a power user and pop the clutch. :) 
Anonymous
a b α HP
January 21, 2005 12:23:28 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Reply to message from Amy Gray <JudgeAmyGrayNOSPAM@hotmail.com> (Thu, 20
Jan 2005 20:36:52) about ""Re: Boycott HP Products"":


AG> As a former HP user who went over to the dark side.....Dell, I say go
AG> for it.

AG> Over the years HP has done everything in it's power to encourage users
AG> like me to migrate to Dell. IMHO the final straw came when Dell
AG> offered to sell me a BETTER device for A MUCH LOWER PRICE.

AG> I paid alot less for the Dell product and got a much better quality
AG> device than the HP.

Going back to the original post, would there not be just as much cause to
boycott Dell (Lack of upgrades)?
January 21, 2005 12:26:21 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Are you pissed off at HP, Amy?

--
There are only two valid activities in this world:
personally attending to the injured and hungry,
and picking fights in newsgroups.
- Lore Sjöberg
Anonymous
a b α HP
January 21, 2005 1:25:50 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 21:16:31 -0500, xTenn
<xtennremovethispart@tds.net> wrote:

>How about a ford that you can change an engine in in case something breaks
>or is recalled from the factory, but you can't put the next year's model
>engine in. Or would you insist that they spend the bucks and make the new
>engine backwards compatible?
No but they also can't go and arbitrarily dump sales of the oil you
put in the engine or the tires.

Not putting out an OS upgrade would be the equivalant of not
allowing users to change the oil, spark plugs, etc.

And yes, if they advertise you can put in a new engine in future
models then yes they need to make the engine available.

The bottom line is if you're HP then don't promise users in 2002
that you can upgrade to the next OS unless you're prepared to
offer that upgrade.

When I got my devices that promised upgrading the OS through
the flashable ROM I can count on zero fingers the number
of manufacuterers who made it clear that they would not be
offering the upgrade.

I bought those devices with the clear understanding they
would offer upgrades to fill those flashable ROMS.

That in my book is fraud.
Anonymous
a b α HP
January 21, 2005 1:58:10 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

inline below

Reply to message from Amy Gray <JudgeAmyGrayNOSPAM@hotmail.com> (Thu, 20
Jan 2005 22:25:50) about ""Re: Boycott HP Products"":


AG> No but they also can't go and arbitrarily dump sales of the oil you
AG> put in the engine or the tires.

AG> Not putting out an OS upgrade would be the equivalant of not allowing
AG> users to change the oil, spark plugs, etc.

Funny, but since that stuff is required to continue operation of the
vehicle as it was designed when it left the factory I would compare that to
electrical power or memory cards...


AG> The bottom line is if you're HP then don't promise users in 2002 that
AG> you can upgrade to the next OS unless you're prepared to offer that
AG> upgrade.


My hp/compaq 3835 did have an optional upgrade to 2003...



AG> When I got my devices that promised upgrading the OS through the
AG> flashable ROM I can count on zero fingers the number of manufacuterers
AG> who made it clear that they would not be offering the upgrade.


So now they are guilty because they did not come out and state they would *
not* do something? This is just too easy...



AG> That in my book is fraud.


That in my book is a grudge against hp... but in a nice, perky way.
Anonymous
a b α HP
January 21, 2005 2:00:34 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Get over it. You are a mature and responsible adult fully capable of
making sound decisions. If you made a decision based on a promise that
HP later withdrew, maybe next time you'll wait until the promise is
fullfilled before making the investment. Furthermore, you're letting
your personal feelings interfer with a business decision. Maybe HP
products aren't right for you. Maybe you had a bad experience with HP.
Ultimately, though it is your responsibility to provide your clients
with the best solution for their need. If HP is so wacked out, why then
are they still in business? I spent $345 for my PPC and do not forsee
spening another $345 or other amount to replace it for at least two
years. I am quite happy with the product, although the user is a bit
wacked out.

Sign me,
Dr. Phil

Come on baby lite my fire: http://www.spreadfirefox.com

jstefani@gmail.com wrote:
> About a year ago, I purchased a HP (Compaq) iPAQ h5550 and paid ~ 650.
> I upgraded my 3835 unit and was told by HP that they would be
> supporting Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition (Landscape mode), later
> to find out that they retracted that statement. At the time they
> retracted the statement, my unit was only 6 months old. The iPAQ's are
> overpriced to begin with, but how can HP expect a person to spend $650
> every 6 months or even a year. As a computer reseller, I no longer sell
> or buy HP products (including printers!). Hind sight, I should have
> bought a Dell Axiom instead. I encourage others to boycott HP as well.
> They used to be the leader in printers, but there are so many other
> manufacturers out there that build a better printer. Now as far as
> technical support goes, you all know what I mean! I shouldn't have to
> learn another language. This is America, isn't it?
>
Anonymous
a b α HP
January 21, 2005 2:15:00 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Are you a therapist Bruno?

David H
Come on baby lite my fire:http://www.spreadfirefox.com

Bruno wrote:

> Are you pissed off at HP, Amy?
>
> --
> There are only two valid activities in this world:
> personally attending to the injured and hungry,
> and picking fights in newsgroups.
> - Lore Sjöberg
Anonymous
a b α HP
January 21, 2005 2:29:40 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Amy Gray wrote:

> On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 21:16:31 -0500, xTenn
> <xtennremovethispart@tds.net> wrote:
>
>
>>How about a ford that you can change an engine in in case something breaks
>>or is recalled from the factory, but you can't put the next year's model
>>engine in. Or would you insist that they spend the bucks and make the new
>>engine backwards compatible?
>
> No but they also can't go and arbitrarily dump sales of the oil you
> put in the engine or the tires.

Please name 1 car manufacturer that manufactures Oil or Tires.



>
> Not putting out an OS upgrade would be the equivalant of not
> allowing users to change the oil, spark plugs, etc.

No. The oil, spark plugs, and belts are REQUIRED for the automobile
to function. Your device will continue to function with or without an
upgrade to the OS.



>
> And yes, if they advertise you can put in a new engine in future
> models then yes they need to make the engine available.

Business environments are subject to change. I believe that companies
are putting disclaimers on all announcments of a financial nature
indicating that the statements contained therein are forward-thinking
and subject to change.


>
> The bottom line is if you're HP then don't promise users in 2002
> that you can upgrade to the next OS unless you're prepared to
> offer that upgrade.

Anytime you purchase equipment or software based on anticipated future
developments, you assume the responsibility of risk in the event that
the future developments do not develop. The is/was one of the HUGE

issues surrounding the PeopleSoft/Oracle merger - new PS clients
concerned that Oracle would discontinue support for the software that
they just implemented for millions of dollars. But ultimately, if
Oracle discontinues support - they discontinue support (although
it would probably be a bad business decision).


>
> When I got my devices that promised upgrading the OS through
> the flashable ROM I can count on zero fingers the number
> of manufacuterers who made it clear that they would not be
> offering the upgrade.


>
> I bought those devices with the clear understanding they
> would offer upgrades to fill those flashable ROMS.
CAVEAT EMPTOR!



>
> That in my book is fraud.

>
>
Anonymous
a b α HP
January 21, 2005 2:43:14 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

DarkSheer wrote:
[...]
> They still do have one of the best printers. And yes, as far as
>
I used to hate HP printers. At my last job it was all HP LaserJets, even
going back to some LaserJet II's, and the damn things just would not break.
How're you supposed to justify new toys and increases in the IT budget with
equipment like that? ;-)

Tony
Anonymous
a b α HP
January 21, 2005 2:43:15 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 23:43:14 GMT, "Tony A." <what@where.why.com>
wrote:

>DarkSheer wrote:
>[...]
>> They still do have one of the best printers. And yes, as far as
>>
>I used to hate HP printers. At my last job it was all HP LaserJets, even
>going back to some LaserJet II's, and the damn things just would not break.
>How're you supposed to justify new toys and increases in the IT budget with
>equipment like that? ;-)
>
>Tony
>
HP Printers are the gold standard, they last forever. I have an HP
Laserjet IIIP that i've had for like 14 years, the thing refuses to
die.

And considering how much $$$ it cost at the time i'm not in a hurry
for it to die.

I've had too many problems with software that threw up if you tried to
use a non HP or Epson printer with it. Of course the Epson printers
have long since died but the HP still keeps chugging along.
Anonymous
a b α HP
January 21, 2005 3:30:51 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

"Justin Emlay" <JEmlay@NoSpam.com> wrote in
news:uJplr8z$EHA.2156@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl:

> Hum...
>
> Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. A couple notes:
>
> 1. HP might be one of the top consumer printer companies however they
> barley scratch the surface when it comes to commercial printing.
>
> 2. Now that Compaq and HP are one I'd have to say the company is more
> known for it's servers and network components.
>
> 3. I'd doubt you'll convince many people to stop buying their $5,000+
> top of line, industry best servers because of a PPC issue/spat.
>
>
>

Found out from a Dell sales rep that the x50v will NOT be upgradeable to
WM 2005. To me , that is also lame given these devices just came out and
2005 is around the corenr.

John

--
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
RPA - Raggio Pocket PC Applications
www.theraggios.com/rpa
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Anonymous
a b α HP
January 21, 2005 3:30:52 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

<Snip>
> Found out from a Dell sales rep that the x50v will NOT be upgradeable to
> WM 2005. To me , that is also lame given these devices just came out and
> 2005 is around the corenr.
>
> John
>
> --
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> RPA - Raggio Pocket PC Applications
> www.theraggios.com/rpa
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

John;

Can you provide a little more details about x50v not being upgradeable to
WM2005? I was told when I ordered mine last week that it *would* be
upgradeable. Just wondering what the source of your information is.

Thanks!

Bobby
Anonymous
a b α HP
January 21, 2005 5:37:47 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

"David C. Holley" <DavidCHolley@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:o EPJF32$EHA.2584@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> Get over it. You are a mature and responsible adult fully capable of
> making sound decisions. If you made a decision based on a promise that HP
> later withdrew, maybe next time you'll wait until the promise is
> fullfilled before making the investment.

This is the dumbest thing I have ever read. You are blaming the victim that
someone lied to, because he is a "responsible adult"?

Are you the same person that says a rape victim was "asking for it", or that
an assault victim "had it coming"?

If so, get off the internet and go back to the trailer park.


Furthermore, you're letting
> your personal feelings interfer with a business decision. Maybe HP
> products aren't right for you. Maybe you had a bad experience with HP.
> Ultimately, though it is your responsibility to provide your clients with
> the best solution for their need. If HP is so wacked out, why then are
> they still in business? I spent $345 for my PPC and do not forsee spening
> another $345 or other amount to replace it for at least two years. I am
> quite happy with the product, although the user is a bit wacked out.
>
> Sign me,
> Dr. Phil
>
> Come on baby lite my fire: http://www.spreadfirefox.com
>
> jstefani@gmail.com wrote:
>> About a year ago, I purchased a HP (Compaq) iPAQ h5550 and paid ~ 650.
>> I upgraded my 3835 unit and was told by HP that they would be
>> supporting Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition (Landscape mode), later
>> to find out that they retracted that statement. At the time they
>> retracted the statement, my unit was only 6 months old. The iPAQ's are
>> overpriced to begin with, but how can HP expect a person to spend $650
>> every 6 months or even a year. As a computer reseller, I no longer sell
>> or buy HP products (including printers!). Hind sight, I should have
>> bought a Dell Axiom instead. I encourage others to boycott HP as well.
>> They used to be the leader in printers, but there are so many other
>> manufacturers out there that build a better printer. Now as far as
>> technical support goes, you all know what I mean! I shouldn't have to
>> learn another language. This is America, isn't it?
>>
Anonymous
a b α HP
January 21, 2005 8:35:17 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

"NoNoBadDog!" <mypants_bjsledgeATpixi.com> wrote in
news:#LsYMg2$EHA.1908@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl:

> <Snip>
>> Found out from a Dell sales rep that the x50v will NOT be upgradeable
>> to WM 2005. To me , that is also lame given these devices just came
>> out and 2005 is around the corenr.
>>
>> John
>>
>> --
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> RPA - Raggio Pocket PC Applications
>> www.theraggios.com/rpa
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> John;
>
> Can you provide a little more details about x50v not being
> upgradeable to
> WM2005? I was told when I ordered mine last week that it *would* be
> upgradeable. Just wondering what the source of your information is.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Bobby
>
>

I called Dell's 800 number and spoke to a sales rep. I asked him about
the upgrade and he said that there would not be an upgrad available for
x50v to 2005. To be honest he didn't seem to sure so I asked him to ask
his manager. He came back and said sorry it won't be upgradeable. I
almost didn;t believe that he actually asked a manager for whatever
that's worth. He seemed a bit incompetent.

I'm encouraged to hear that you were told that there woudl be an upgrade.
I may call back tomorrow and ask again. (Best 2/3 ?). Heck I'd be
surpirsed if they don;t sell the x50v with 2005 in a fe wmonths wehen it
comes out and offer upgrades. Didn't it just come out and isn;t 2005
coming in a few months? Seems kind of lame that a brand new device is
outdated in 6 months. I have to feel like it would hurt sales. I'm
hesitant. If I knew it was upgradeable I would have ordered already. I
am using an HP 548 now. It;s time for an upgrade for sure, but I don't
want to regret not wating another few months. If the x50v is not
upgradeable maybe it will fall dramatically in price when 2005 comes out?

While on the subject of the x50v, what do you all think about buying a
new device on Ebay for $400? The seller has a great rating and is
selling many units. Lookslike he bought in bulk.

Later,
John

--
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
RPA - Raggio Pocket PC Applications
www.theraggios.com/rpa
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Anonymous
a b α HP
January 21, 2005 8:35:18 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

"rpadev" <rpadev@nospam.optonline.net> wrote in message
news:p w0Id.580$dd7.123@fe11.lga...
> "NoNoBadDog!" <mypants_bjsledgeATpixi.com> wrote in
> news:#LsYMg2$EHA.1908@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl:
>
>> <Snip>
>>> Found out from a Dell sales rep that the x50v will NOT be upgradeable
>>> to WM 2005. To me , that is also lame given these devices just came
>>> out and 2005 is around the corenr.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> --
>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>> RPA - Raggio Pocket PC Applications
>>> www.theraggios.com/rpa
>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
>> John;
>>
>> Can you provide a little more details about x50v not being
>> upgradeable to
>> WM2005? I was told when I ordered mine last week that it *would* be
>> upgradeable. Just wondering what the source of your information is.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Bobby
>>
>>
>
> I called Dell's 800 number and spoke to a sales rep. I asked him about
> the upgrade and he said that there would not be an upgrad available for
> x50v to 2005. To be honest he didn't seem to sure so I asked him to ask
> his manager. He came back and said sorry it won't be upgradeable. I
> almost didn;t believe that he actually asked a manager for whatever
> that's worth. He seemed a bit incompetent.
>
> I'm encouraged to hear that you were told that there woudl be an upgrade.
> I may call back tomorrow and ask again. (Best 2/3 ?). Heck I'd be
> surpirsed if they don;t sell the x50v with 2005 in a fe wmonths wehen it
> comes out and offer upgrades. Didn't it just come out and isn;t 2005
> coming in a few months? Seems kind of lame that a brand new device is
> outdated in 6 months. I have to feel like it would hurt sales. I'm
> hesitant. If I knew it was upgradeable I would have ordered already. I
> am using an HP 548 now. It;s time for an upgrade for sure, but I don't
> want to regret not wating another few months. If the x50v is not
> upgradeable maybe it will fall dramatically in price when 2005 comes out?
>
> While on the subject of the x50v, what do you all think about buying a
> new device on Ebay for $400? The seller has a great rating and is
> selling many units. Lookslike he bought in bulk.
>
> Later,
> John
>
> --
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> RPA - Raggio Pocket PC Applications
> www.theraggios.com/rpa
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

As long as he has a good track record, I would not hesitate. I have had
good luck so far buying on eBay. FWIW, I bought an x50v directly from the
Dell website, while it was on sale, and used one of the downloadable coupons
from AximSite, so I paid $399.99 for it after all was said and done (of
course taxes and S/H brought it up some). I received it the next business
day, which is rare. It is the first time I have ever purchased from Dell,
and I was pleasantly surprised after hearing some of the horror stories
about ordering directly from Dell.

I agree that their support department leaves a lot to be desired. I
upgraded from an aged iPAQ 3835, and I was immediately impressed about how
much better the x50v is. I would have gone with the iPAQ 4715, but I could
find nothing to justify it's $200 higher pricetag. I use the x50v everyday,
filing reports while I travel, and it has performed flawlessly. I was
impressed with it's wireless capabilities. All things considered, I
consider it one of the best I have ever used.

Bobby
January 21, 2005 9:50:24 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 02:37:47 -0500, "Chance Hopkins"
<chance_hopkins@hotmail.com> removed the duct tape and proclaimed:

>Are you the same person that says a rape victim was "asking for it", or that
>an assault victim "had it coming"?
>
>If so, get off the internet and go back to the trailer park.

What I love most about usenet is the intelligent discourse.


--
There are only two valid activities in this world:
personally attending to the injured and hungry,
and picking fights in newsgroups.
- Lore Sjöberg
Anonymous
a b α HP
January 21, 2005 11:47:37 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

The bottom line, is that people are always going to complain about things,
but really, they're still going to buy products from HP, and, most likely, a
new Ipaq when it comes out. I know this because I've owned a 3835, 5455,
and now a (wonderful) 4700. I have had issues with HP, but what can I say,
I just love pocket PCs!


"Bruno" <insert@address.here> wrote in message
news:a2r1v01o8to9co0j25q4e4gugsj8mm62ds@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 02:37:47 -0500, "Chance Hopkins"
> <chance_hopkins@hotmail.com> removed the duct tape and proclaimed:
>
>>Are you the same person that says a rape victim was "asking for it", or
>>that
>>an assault victim "had it coming"?
>>
>>If so, get off the internet and go back to the trailer park.
>
> What I love most about usenet is the intelligent discourse.
>
>
> --
> There are only two valid activities in this world:
> personally attending to the injured and hungry,
> and picking fights in newsgroups.
> - Lore Sjöberg
January 21, 2005 1:56:05 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

DarkSheer wrote:

> jstefani@gmail.com wrote:
> > About a year ago, I purchased a HP (Compaq) iPAQ h5550 and paid ~ 650.
> > I upgraded my 3835 unit and was told by HP that they would be
> > supporting Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition (Landscape mode), later
> > to find out that they retracted that statement. At the time they
> > retracted the statement, my unit was only 6 months old. The iPAQ's are
> > overpriced to begin with, but how can HP expect a person to spend $650
> > every 6 months or even a year.
>
> No you shouldn't. Think of it just like a cell phone, not like a computer
> that needs constant patches or upgrades. Why do you need top of the line
> softwear every 6 months? Thats like saying i want hp to give my h5550
> screen an upgrade because its not VGA like the hx4705.
>
> They shouldn't have lied to you back then, though.
>
> > As a computer reseller, I no longer
> > sell or buy HP products (including printers!). Hind sight, I should
> > have bought a Dell Axiom instead. I encourage others to boycott HP as
> > well.
>
> That's your perogative. I happen to love HP handhelds. Dell is good too,
> but the new ipaqs are so sleek.
> So you want us to boycott because they don't provide upgrades for the OS
> every month?
>
> > They used to be the leader in printers, but there are so many
> > other manufacturers out there that build a better printer. Now as
> > far as technical support goes, you all know what I mean! I shouldn't
> > have to learn another language. This is America, isn't it?
>
> They still do have one of the best printers. And yes, as far as technical
> support goes, alot of companies are importing tech support. Hell, dell has
> been doing it for the last 4 years. I don't like it either, but it's
> cheeper for them. And last I checked, they are out to make money.
>
> Ryan

Ryan,

Yes, I'll second that about HP printers. I'm still using an HP 722C (300dpi)
printer that has got to be 7-8 years old. It just keeps on running, never missing
a beat. I even bought a used HP 722C on ebay as a spare. However, it's
still in the box. Who knows, I may never need it.

Scott
Anonymous
a b α HP
January 21, 2005 4:56:49 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Amy Gray <JudgeAmyGrayNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:rgk0v0dvvh8s4l1kl724m5ts9isdajb297@4ax.com:

> On 20 Jan 2005 04:47:02 -0800, jstefani@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>About a year ago, I purchased a HP (Compaq) iPAQ h5550 and paid ~ 650.
>>I upgraded my 3835 unit and was told by HP that they would be
>>supporting Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition (Landscape mode), later
>>to find out that they retracted that statement. At the time they
>>retracted the statement, my unit was only 6 months old. The iPAQ's are
>>overpriced to begin with, but how can HP expect a person to spend $650
>>every 6 months or even a year.
> One word: stockholders.
>
> Another word: money
>
> http://quote.morningstar.com/Quote.html?ticker=HPQ
>
> The bottom line: the stockholders/CEO/board of directors want you
> to buy a new device rather than upgrade your old device.
>
> They want their revenue stream to continue. It's all about the
> money.
>
>
>

Yes, I think its all about money, but not in the same way I think you do.
People tend to consider win mobile as an OS, but it seems to be more of
an embedded OS. Thus, old hardware may not run real well with an
upgraded OS. So, for the manufacturer to offer the upgrade, they need to
test the upgrade on old hardware, then they need to patch the OS to fix
any problems that might be because the hardware is old, then they need to
test it again, then beta test, then deploy, then offer technical customer
service to those who are having trouble installing the patch.

These hours have to come from somewhere, and most likely they have to
come from an R and D team. Frankly, it makes more sense for a company's
R and D team to work toward the company's future product line, and not
their past product line. This way, the company has an easier time
staying competitive. If they don't move in the right direction, they
die.

Scott
Anonymous
a b α HP
January 21, 2005 4:56:50 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

"Scott Seidman" <namdiesttocs@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95E55B040A056scottseidmanmindspri@130.133.1.4...
> Yes, I think its all about money, but not in the same way I think you do.
> People tend to consider win mobile as an OS, but it seems to be more of
> an embedded OS. Thus, old hardware may not run real well with an
> upgraded OS. So, for the manufacturer to offer the upgrade, they need to
> test the upgrade on old hardware, then they need to patch the OS to fix
> any problems that might be because the hardware is old, then they need to
> test it again, then beta test, then deploy, then offer technical customer
> service to those who are having trouble installing the patch.
>
> These hours have to come from somewhere, and most likely they have to
> come from an R and D team. Frankly, it makes more sense for a company's
> R and D team to work toward the company's future product line, and not
> their past product line. This way, the company has an easier time
> staying competitive. If they don't move in the right direction, they
> die.

I've been following this thread and at one point was upset my HP2215 could
not be upgraded but I have moved on and believe these units are throw away
units, atleast that's what the manufacturers want as well. I have no plans
to buy a second edition unit because of that fact. My next purchase will be
a 2005 unit.

In my opinion a $650 unit to me is not realistic considering the policies of
these manufacturers. I wonder why a manufacturer doesn't come up with a
maintenance plan that guarantees all upgrades for 1 or 2 years at $50, $100,
or 200; it's a lot cheaper than buying two new devices. I believe HP can
warrant their prices due to the fact they're the market leader and are in
bed with businesses. That's where the money is. In summary, buy a unit
that makes financial sense because you're probably NOT going to get an OS
upgrade in the future.

--
Sitruc
Anonymous
a b α HP
January 21, 2005 6:32:13 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

"Sitruc" <sitruc@127.0.0.1> wrote in news:#mQ91v8$EHA.3368
@TK2MSFTNGP15.phx.gbl:

> In summary, buy a unit
> that makes financial sense because you're probably NOT going to get an OS
> upgrade in the future.
>

Also, ask if the unit does what you want it to do. If it does, there isn't
much call for an OS upgrade.

Scott
Anonymous
a b α HP
January 21, 2005 6:32:14 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Reply to message from Scott Seidman <namdiesttocs@mindspring.com> (Fri, 21
Jan 2005 10:32:13) about ""Re: Boycott HP Products"":


SS> Also, ask if the unit does what you want it to do. If it does, there
SS> isn't much call for an OS upgrade.


Exactly. One of the reasons for the rapid change is to get more people, the
holdouts, into the market of pdas, not to force everyone to rebuy.
Otherwise there would be no patches, etc for the older units, which is not
the case. Heck, even the accessory market flourishes with the previous
units, not the hottest on the market.
Anonymous
a b α HP
January 21, 2005 6:38:36 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

David C. Holley wrote:
> Amy Gray wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 21:16:31 -0500, xTenn
>> <xtennremovethispart@tds.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> How about a ford that you can change an engine in in case something
>>> breaks or is recalled from the factory, but you can't put the next
>>> year's model engine in. Or would you insist that they spend the
>>> bucks and make the new engine backwards compatible?
>>
>> No but they also can't go and arbitrarily dump sales of the oil you
>> put in the engine or the tires.
>
> Please name 1 car manufacturer that manufactures Oil or Tires.
>

First name one PPC manufacturer that designes whole OS's.

>> Not putting out an OS upgrade would be the equivalant of not
>> allowing users to change the oil, spark plugs, etc.
>
> No. The oil, spark plugs, and belts are REQUIRED for the automobile
> to function. Your device will continue to function with or without
> an upgrade to the OS.
>

It would be like saying ford came up with a car with better tires than the
model you baught last year. You won't automatically get those new tires
just because they are on the newest model.

Ryan
Anonymous
a b α HP
January 21, 2005 7:03:54 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Scott wrote:
> DarkSheer wrote:
>
>> jstefani@gmail.com wrote:
>>> About a year ago, I purchased a HP (Compaq) iPAQ h5550 and paid ~
>>> 650. I upgraded my 3835 unit and was told by HP that they would be
>>> supporting Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition (Landscape mode),
>>> later to find out that they retracted that statement. At the time
>>> they retracted the statement, my unit was only 6 months old. The
>>> iPAQ's are overpriced to begin with, but how can HP expect a person
>>> to spend $650 every 6 months or even a year.
>>
>> No you shouldn't. Think of it just like a cell phone, not like a
>> computer that needs constant patches or upgrades. Why do you need
>> top of the line softwear every 6 months? Thats like saying i want
>> hp to give my h5550 screen an upgrade because its not VGA like the
>> hx4705.
>>
>> They shouldn't have lied to you back then, though.
>>
>>> As a computer reseller, I no longer
>>> sell or buy HP products (including printers!). Hind sight, I should
>>> have bought a Dell Axiom instead. I encourage others to boycott HP
>>> as well.
>>
>> That's your perogative. I happen to love HP handhelds. Dell is
>> good too, but the new ipaqs are so sleek.
>> So you want us to boycott because they don't provide upgrades for
>> the OS every month?
>>
>>> They used to be the leader in printers, but there are so many
>>> other manufacturers out there that build a better printer. Now as
>>> far as technical support goes, you all know what I mean! I shouldn't
>>> have to learn another language. This is America, isn't it?
>>
>> They still do have one of the best printers. And yes, as far as
>> technical support goes, alot of companies are importing tech
>> support. Hell, dell has been doing it for the last 4 years. I
>> don't like it either, but it's cheeper for them. And last I
>> checked, they are out to make money.
>>
>> Ryan
>
> Ryan,
>
> Yes, I'll second that about HP printers. I'm still using an HP 722C
> (300dpi) printer that has got to be 7-8 years old. It just keeps on
> running, never missing a beat. I even bought a used HP 722C on ebay
> as a spare. However, it's
> still in the box. Who knows, I may never need it.
>

Here here. Definatly. Hell, at work, we have a half dozen from like 10
years ago. Still working like they were a year old.

Ryan
January 21, 2005 8:46:23 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

jstefani@gmail.com wrote:

> About a year ago, I purchased a HP (Compaq) iPAQ h5550 and paid ~ 650.
> I upgraded my 3835 unit and was told by HP that they would be
> supporting Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition (Landscape mode), later
> to find out that they retracted that statement. At the time they
> retracted the statement, my unit was only 6 months old. The iPAQ's are
> overpriced to begin with, but how can HP expect a person to spend $650
> every 6 months or even a year. As a computer reseller, I no longer sell
> or buy HP products (including printers!). Hind sight, I should have
> bought a Dell Axiom instead. I encourage others to boycott HP as well.
> They used to be the leader in printers, but there are so many other
> manufacturers out there that build a better printer. Now as far as
> technical support goes, you all know what I mean! I shouldn't have to
> learn another language. This is America, isn't it?
>
Mate, SE only has a few new icons. Nothing groundbraking!

--
Marc
See http://www.imarc.co.uk/ for contact details.
January 21, 2005 9:45:59 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 16:24:11 -0700, "Sven, MVP-Mobile Devices"
<sejohannsen@hotmail.com> removed the duct tape and proclaimed:

>I'm just curious. I understand that it would be irritating to buy a piece of
>electronics and have the new and improved version come out shortly
>thereafter...

That is almost always what happens when you buy technology. Get over
it, or don't buy any.


--
There are only two valid activities in this world:
personally attending to the injured and hungry,
and picking fights in newsgroups.
- Lore Sjöberg
Anonymous
a b α HP
January 21, 2005 10:30:06 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 21:23:28 -0500, xTenn
<xtennremovethispart@tds.net> wrote:

>Going back to the original post, would there not be just as much cause to
>boycott Dell (Lack of upgrades)?
Excpet that HP advertised the upgrades alot more than Dell did.
Anonymous
a b α HP
January 21, 2005 10:45:51 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 23:29:40 -0500, "David C. Holley"
<DavidCHolley@netscape.net> wrote:

>Please name 1 car manufacturer that manufactures Oil or Tires.
Here is a news flash for you: auto companies make alot of their
money on repairs/parts/sevice. They sell you that new car with
dollars signs flashing in front of their eyes at you
bringing that new car in every 3,000 miles for an oil
change/service at their own service facility in the dealership.

They even design it so the cars 300+ computers only talk to
the compters at the dealership.

So you have to go to the dealership to get their oil, tires
and other service. Your local mechanic is rapidly headed
to the point where he can't read information from the cars
computers so he diagnose what is wrong with the car.


>No. The oil, spark plugs, and belts are REQUIRED for the automobile
> to function. Your device will continue to function with or without an
> upgrade to the OS.
I would point out with everything computerized in the car they
can just replace the entire system parts. So if your radiator/
oil pump/starter/etc. blows they just replace the part/computer
the whole shebang. Ulititmatley everything in the car can
be replaced (for a huge price of course).


>Business environments are subject to change. I believe that companies
> are putting disclaimers on all announcments of a financial nature
> indicating that the statements contained therein are forward-thinking
> and subject to change.
Talk about closing the barn door after the horses have escaped. When
I bought a number of devices they (especially HP) made a big deal
about their devices being upgradeable when a new OS comes out. They
went out of their advertise the upgrades.

When I went to purchase my HP568 for instance I went over the
ads with a fine tooth comb lookiing for all the fine print about
upgrades. There wasn't any. They essentially guaranteed
an upgrade would be available.
Anonymous
a b α HP
January 21, 2005 10:55:14 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 21:26:21 -0500, Bruno <insert@address.here> wrote:

>Are you pissed off at HP, Amy?
Yes. See my previous post where I mention customer support for
HP not knowing a PPC if it hit them in the head.

Don't know about customer support for Dell, everything i've bought
from Dell worked flawlessly out of the box so i've never had a need
to call for customer support.
Anonymous
a b α HP
January 21, 2005 11:01:50 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

On 21 Jan 2005 13:56:49 GMT, Scott Seidman
<namdiesttocs@mindspring.com> wrote:

>Yes, I think its all about money, but not in the same way I think you do.
>People tend to consider win mobile as an OS, but it seems to be more of
>an embedded OS. Thus, old hardware may not run real well with an
>upgraded OS. So, for the manufacturer to offer the upgrade, they need to
>test the upgrade on old hardware, then they need to patch the OS to fix
>any problems that might be because the hardware is old, then they need to
>test it again, then beta test, then deploy, then offer technical customer
>service to those who are having trouble installing the patch.
Yes I recognize this....the lesson for all the manufacturers,
especially HP......don't be so quick to promise your customers
that upgrades will be available.



>These hours have to come from somewhere, and most likely they have to
>come from an R and D team. Frankly, it makes more sense for a company's
>R and D team to work toward the company's future product line, and not
>their past product line. This way, the company has an easier time
>staying competitive. If they don't move in the right direction, they
>die.
The bottom line then: don't promise the customer you're going to
provide upgrades unless you're PREPARED TO PROVIDE THE UPGRADES.
Anonymous
a b α HP
January 21, 2005 11:02:55 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:46:23 +0000, Marc <see@signature.url> wrote:

>jstefani@gmail.com wrote:
>

>Mate, SE only has a few new icons. Nothing groundbraking!

Well, and windows media 10 with lots of new features. And VGA and
screen rotation support (well VGA's no use if the PDA wasn't built
with a VGA screen of course!)

Cheers - Neil
Anonymous
a b α HP
January 21, 2005 11:02:56 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

SE doesn't imply WM10. At WM2003 SE release there were no PPC with WM 10.
Today, I can still count on one hand the PPCs that have WM10. I know of 2
that sold with it (X50, and some phone), 3 HP models (same series) and the
X30 that had a ROM upgrade to provide it. The majority of WM2003SE devices
do not have WM 10. As you said, VGA is only an issue if you buy a VGA PPC,
again I can count them on one hand. Screen rotation? It seems that Nyditot
has broken the code on screen rotation without a reset. I haven't tried that
yet, but if they have done it and included dynamic resolution changes on
PPC2002 and WM2003 (pre SE) devices, that's even better than what you get
with SE.

So I'm with Marc, SE isn't to die for, and the advantages are not across the
board on SE machines.

--
Sven, MS-MVP Mobile Devices
"Neil Smith [MVP Digital Media]" <neil@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:f2p2v0p5lkp7uoavo0utb8uei070f9tlqf@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 17:46:23 +0000, Marc <see@signature.url> wrote:
>
> >jstefani@gmail.com wrote:
> >
>
> >Mate, SE only has a few new icons. Nothing groundbraking!
>
> Well, and windows media 10 with lots of new features. And VGA and
> screen rotation support (well VGA's no use if the PDA wasn't built
> with a VGA screen of course!)
>
> Cheers - Neil
Anonymous
a b α HP
January 21, 2005 11:38:44 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 10:14:52 -0500, "Sitruc" <sitruc@127.0.0.1> wrote:

>I've been following this thread and at one point was upset my HP2215 could
>not be upgraded but I have moved on and believe these units are throw away
>units, atleast that's what the manufacturers want as well. I have no plans
>to buy a second edition unit because of that fact. My next purchase will be
>a 2005 unit.
At this point my next device most likely will be a Pocket PC/Cell
phone combination.

When I can get a free one through a cell phone carrier (like my
existing cell phone) then it will be a "throw away" commodity.
At the present time it is not. And at $400-$600+ that is hardly
a "throw away" device.


>In my opinion a $650 unit to me is not realistic considering the policies of
>these manufacturers. I wonder why a manufacturer doesn't come up with a
>maintenance plan that guarantees all upgrades for 1 or 2 years at $50, $100,
>or 200; it's a lot cheaper than buying two new devices. I believe HP can
>warrant their prices due to the fact they're the market leader and are in
>bed with businesses. That's where the money is. In summary, buy a unit
>that makes financial sense because you're probably NOT going to get an OS
>upgrade in the future.
IMHO this is going to follow the PC path, where in the years ahead
you'll get a PC for next to nothing. In five years where a full
PC is now $2,000+ would likely be priced at a lower price then so
should a PPC also be priced less.


A few years ago a DVD player was $500+ now they are $29.00 at
walmart. A few years ago a PC was $4,000, now you can get a Pentium
4 for alot less. The PPC should be at the point in the product cycle
where a top of the line ppc should be also coming down in price.

So right now the PPC is not a throw away commodity.




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Anonymous
a b α HP
January 21, 2005 11:46:19 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 13:42:25 -0500, xTenn
<xtennremovethispart@tds.net> wrote:

>Exactly. One of the reasons for the rapid change is to get more people, the
>holdouts, into the market of pdas, not to force everyone to rebuy.
Wrong. Management for a company wants to guarantee a revenue stream
for stock holders by getting every customer to buy a new device.

HP stock holders want CF to get every current HP device user to
go out today and buy a NEW DEVICE.

If you're Microsoft you want every user buying a brand
spanking new PPC device with the Windows CE OS built in
along with Pocket Word and other stuff.

Ulitmately they want customers do buy the lastest and
trash the old device.



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Anonymous
a b α HP
January 21, 2005 11:57:34 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 08:47:37 -0800, "Darin" <darinr@endpcnoise.com>
wrote:

>The bottom line, is that people are always going to complain about things,
>but really, they're still going to buy products from HP, and, most likely, a
>new Ipaq when it comes out. I know this because I've owned a 3835, 5455,
>and now a (wonderful) 4700. I have had issues with HP, but what can I say,
>I just love pocket PCs!
HP's days are numbered. I've bought lots of products from HP over the
years, the last few products i've bought have been from companies like
Dell and others.

HP will go broke if it always assumes people will buy from them.

Well customers like me have bought our stuff from the competition.

For example my Digital camera is a Kodak, that is one
product that HP should have had in the bag. They missed the
boat on that one.


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Anonymous
a b α HP
January 22, 2005 12:19:41 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 23:00:34 -0500, "David C. Holley"
<DavidCHolley@netscape.net> wrote:

>with the best solution for their need. If HP is so wacked out, why then
>are they still in business?
In a few years they may not be. A good example is Microsoft should
own the browser market now. Instead Firefox is rapidly eating their
lunch.

Another good example is IBM. If you told me IBM would sell out their
PC division I would have asked what you were smoking. Well IBM sold
their enitre PC division to a company in China.








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Anonymous
a b α HP
January 22, 2005 12:42:44 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Reply to message from Amy Gray <JudgeAmyGrayNOSPAM@hotmail.com> (Fri, 21
Jan 2005 20:46:19) about ""Re: Boycott HP Products"":

AG> On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 13:42:25 -0500, xTenn <xtennremovethispart@tds.
AG> net> wrote:

>> Exactly. One of the reasons for the rapid change is to get more people,
>> the holdouts, into the market of pdas, not to force everyone to rebuy.
AG> Wrong. Management for a company wants to guarantee a revenue stream
AG> for stock holders by getting every customer to buy a new device.

So, if that was truly the case why would hp spend so much money on creating
accesories, only to make their own market obsolete?

Besides, do you really think that hp forcing people to buy new ppcs would
really generate enough revenue to actually impact stockholders on that
level? HP is a little bigger than that... Pocket PCs are probably a small
line on the last page of the quarterly reports.

But it is sweet of you to continue your smear campaign against hp. It is
important that people stick to what they believe in. ;) 
January 22, 2005 1:19:09 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 21:19:41 -0500, Amy Gray
<JudgeAmyGrayNOSPAM@hotmail.com> removed the duct tape and proclaimed:

>Another good example is IBM. If you told me IBM would sell out their
>PC division I would have asked what you were smoking. Well IBM sold
>their enitre PC division to a company in China.

IBM might have done that to get out of arrangements they had with
Microsoft. Now IBM will be free to do anything they want in the PC
market. Mac OS already runs on IBM PowerPC architecture, so who knows.
And there is Linux. M$ will be getting a run for its money in the next
few years.

--
There are only two valid activities in this world:
personally attending to the injured and hungry,
and picking fights in newsgroups.
- Lore Sjöberg
January 22, 2005 2:47:03 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

DarkSheer wrote:
> It would be like saying ford came up with a car with better tires than the
> model you baught last year. You won't automatically get those new tires
> just because they are on the newest model.

I agree, but the very name "PocketPC" implies that like a PC, you can
upgrade. For example, if i wanted to get the latest operating system
from Apple, I could and it would still work on my 3 year old iMac. Also
technically there's no reason why it cannot be done, to my knowledge
anyway. Its easy to see it as a way of HP getting users to upgrade
without making any new features themselves (after all, Microsoft code
it). I'm sure thats not the case, but thats how many people see it.


--
Marc
See http://www.imarc.co.uk/ for contact details.
Anonymous
a b α HP
January 22, 2005 12:30:12 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

On 1/21/2005 11:42:25 AM, xTenn wrote:
>Reply to message from Scott Seidman <namdiesttocs@mindspring.com> (Fri, 21
>Jan 2005 10:32:13) about ""Re: Boycott HP Products"":
>
>
> SS> Also, ask if the unit does what you want it to do. If it does, there
> SS> isn't much call for an OS upgrade.
>
>
>Exactly. One of the reasons for the rapid change is to get more people, the
>holdouts, into the market of pdas, not to force everyone to rebuy.
>Otherwise there would be no patches, etc for the older units, which is not
>the case. Heck, even the accessory market flourishes with the previous
>units, not the hottest on the market.
>

I've been watching this thread and figured I'd throw in my 2 cents here.

As someone who has had several PDAs, I can understand wanting to be able to
upgrade the OS. My PDAs to date have been the following, in order, Apple
Newton, Palm III, Palm IIIx, Palm m515, Dell Axim X50. I have always had a
PDA since around 1995. That's been about 10 years between the first 4 units,
since I just purchased my Axim. I really didn't need the Axim since my Palm
m515 still does everything that I bought it for back in 2002. I wanted
something new, and with various ways to connect to the net. (as a side note,
the Palm III went above and beyond the purchase reason when it *was* my
computer for about 4 months when I was in Korea, waiting for my computer
which was being shipped over. It had a modem, POP client, News client, ICQ,
and web browser)

The most compelling reason to upgrade a unit had always been memory, but that
doesn't seem to be a problem anymore thanks to SD and flash. I haven't
worried about running out of space since I bought the m515.

I think most consumers buy something to accomplish certain tasks now, not to
be able to do something in the future, although that could be a decision
maker when comparing a couple of devices that do the same thing equally well.
I bought my Axim to do the following:
1. Synchronize with Outlook
2. Get online (via ethernet, modem, bluetooth, or 802.11)
3. Web surf
4. Instant message
5. Financial management (via synchronizing and sometimes stand-alone)
6. Serial/PIN/Account/Logon management
7. View/edit MS Office documents

The Axim (and the m515 for that matter - minus the various net connections)
handles all of that now, and will continue to handle it, even after WinMob
2005 comes out, so it doesn't really matter to me if Dell offers an upgrade
or not.

Here is something else to think about. Think of all the problems people
encounter when upgrading ActiveSync. By not upgrading (to WM2k5), many
problems will be avoided. I'm sure many applications will no longer run
right, and will require many other upgrades to be compatible.

I had no compelling reason to upgrade the OS of any of these devices. Granted
I did do it with my Palms, but I didn't have to. I bought each unit, knowing
what it did, and it continued to do what I bought it for regardless of an OS
update or not. I'm not saying either way is the "right" or "wrong" way to go.
That depends on each individual user.

As always, this is just my own opinion, individual results may vary... ;-)

--
Walt
!