Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

BEST cooling for E6600, P5WDH Deluxe, Scythe good enough?

Last response: in Overclocking
Share
September 21, 2006 2:35:51 PM

Hi,
I'm looking to overclock my rig next week and was hoping to find out what the BEST cooling setup for my situation is. Some considerations:
1) no water cooling
2) lowers temps dramatically (and I mean A LOT)
3) easy installation (NO mobo removal)
4) will fit in the P180B

Will I need some Arctic Silver? I'm using the stock fan that came with the E6600. There is already some paste on there I think.

Goals - get the CPU to around 3.6Ghz at 400Mhz FSB.

THANKS! Your thoughts?

PS. I was looking at the Scythe Ninja Plus:
http://www.scythe-usa.com/product/cpu/006/scnj1000p.htm...
September 21, 2006 2:45:25 PM

Hey Wusy!

I read your guide and tried to OC a little to see how it worked out. I upped my FSB from 266 to 270, and restarted. The FSB then registed 250 and CPU at ~2300 in Asus AI. WTF? Why would it actually go down? I just wanted to do this as a trial run before getting started, and before getting my cooling unit.

Not to get off the topic too much, but thanks!
September 21, 2006 2:49:50 PM

PS. Again, not to move away too much from my original question, but in your guide, where you say you should disable the CPU fan. Does this assume then you have an aftermarket cooler on? I'd like to OC a little as a test run, but dont want to disable my fan in the process (I think your guide assumes you have a cooler on no?). Thanks for clarifying this.
September 21, 2006 3:24:02 PM

Quote:
lowers temps dramatically (and I mean A LOT)

Be more specific. Do you have temp targets at load, etc.?

Quote:
Will I need some Arctic Silver?


Depends on the HSF you choose. If you get something with a highly polished surface, AS Ceramique might be better. Are you going to lap your IHS?

Quote:
PS. I was looking at the Scythe Ninja Plus


That's a fine product. Scythe recently released the Infinity. I need to look around and see if there are any good reviews of that one yet. OK, Pro Clockers loved it. I don't know that site. Let's look some more... OK, Silent PC Review says it doesn't cool as well as their Ninja Plus. Then they go off saying that there is high variation in heat pipe quality on the Ninja Pluses. That's not good... Here's another glowing review that pits the Infinity against the stock cooler. I don't know this site either.

I'd really like to see Scythe cut the mass of their HSFs. These units are getting huge and really heavy but if SPCReview is accurate, all the extra mass of the Infinity didn't yield a performance increase. Odd...
September 21, 2006 3:30:06 PM

Great. Thanks for the info. I'd like to keep my temps below 45C when OCing. Do you think this is possible if I want to take it up to 3.6 Ghz ???

Can you install the Scythe Ninja Plus without removing the mobo? Has anyone actually installed one on a P5W DH in a Antec P180???

Thanks!
September 21, 2006 3:42:42 PM

Thanks Wusy. I think that guide said you can install the Infinity without removing the mobo.

I guess it's a fist fight between the Infinity and the Ninja. Which one boys? The INF is $20 more. Is it worth it???? Performance looks the same.

If the Ninja installation is easy, then I'll probably go with that. If not, I'll go with the INF. Waiting to hear if anyone has actually installed one of these into a P180?????
September 21, 2006 3:43:10 PM

Quote:
Great. Thanks for the info. I'd like to keep my temps below 45C when OCing. Do you think this is possible if I want to take it up to 3.6 Ghz ???


Look at the anandtech forum. I think that's where I ran into someone that OC'ed to 3.6 and stayed below 50C. Note that this individual was using the onboard monitor so accuracy is unknown. Below 45C OC'ed - I assume you mean load temp? My gut instinct is that you'd need water or more for that temp but someone with actual C2D OC experience should be able to give you better info.
September 21, 2006 3:44:40 PM

Ok thanks Clue. I'll look into it.
September 21, 2006 3:45:17 PM

Quote:
I guess it's a fist fight between the Infinity and the Ninja. Which one boys? The INF is $20 more. Is it worth it???? Performance looks the same.


Shop around. I saw the Inf for $52 USD today.
September 21, 2006 3:47:39 PM

Quote:
VR-Zone tested it with FM121 and found it to be better than Ninja Plus.
I guess the higher fin density in Infinity requires slightly more than the near-silent 1300RPM.
http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=3929

I'd just use that 1300RPM 120mm as case fan.


Yea, I found that right before you posted it. Makes sense, really. Increased surface area with closer fin proximity implies that higher air force would be required to approach its max heat removal rate.

That thing is a monstah! No wonder they call it the Infinity...
September 21, 2006 3:53:28 PM

Hehehehehhe. Here is another link with photos:
http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:bmVj7F7AfkAJ:www.xt...

Seems like this baby works in the P180B, so I will probably go with this one and just pay up.

I wish someone would share their experience of installing this baby. I would love to know how it went and hear the pros and cons.

ANYONE OUT THERE? Hellooooooooooo!

Thanks guys.
a b K Overclocking
September 21, 2006 4:56:17 PM

Quote:
Great. Thanks for the info. I'd like to keep my temps below 45C when OCing. Do you think this is possible if I want to take it up to 3.6 Ghz ???

Can you install the Scythe Ninja Plus without removing the mobo? Has anyone actually installed one on a P5W DH in a Antec P180???

Thanks!


You will not be able to keep your load temps below 45C if you plan on OC to 3.6GHz. My E6600 is clocked at 3.0GHz and I use the Scythe Ninja Plus. It idles at 39C, and it is 55C under load. I use Core Temp to measure the temperature.

You will have to remove the motherboard to install the metallic backplate if the P5W DH does not have one. You will also need to screw in the retention bracket from underneath the mobo.
September 21, 2006 7:10:52 PM

Sounds like the Ninja is a pain in the butt. What about the Infinity? I am yet to hear anyone post a comment here who has actually put one together without any hitches. Really strange though. There are tons of enthusiasts here, and the the P180, P5WDH and E6600 are such popular components.

Did you see those links. That guy was having some issues with the INF touching a capacitor, I think it melted his board in the end.

So again, if anyone has put one of these puppies together, let us know! THANKS! :lol: 
September 21, 2006 7:41:55 PM

I remember reading the inifinity needed its own backplate also. Most high-end mobo's should have enough clearance. All heavy coolers will required you to take out the mobo to mount, some even require you to mount the mobo on the cooler O.O

You might want to check out the Vigor Monsoon II or the Titan Amanda. Those are Air powered TEC coolers, work better than air, almost the same as water, but around $120.
September 21, 2006 8:12:40 PM

Quote:
Those are Air powered TEC coolers, work better than air, almost the same as water, but around $120.


Air powered? Do they only work outdoors on a windy day?

Does Baron use one?
a b K Overclocking
September 21, 2006 8:16:21 PM

Quote:
Sounds like the Ninja is a pain in the butt. What about the Infinity?


The Ninja & Infinity both uses the same retention mechanism. Therefore, you will need to screw in the retention brackets from underneath the motherboard.

Most large HSF will have a similar setup.
September 21, 2006 8:38:44 PM

The Scythe Ninja is ideal for a new build, with the retension bracket being mounted from the underside of the Mobo. The Ninja's mounting bracket is simple and secure, but be careful with the installation. Those heatsink fins don't just LOOK like razor blades. 8O

I think the Ninja is especially suited to computer cases with a rear exhaust fan that lines up with the CPU, like some Lian Li models. The units 12cm cooler will distribute the hot air directly out of the case. Though lately Ninjas are scarce on the market, they are definitely worth the search.
September 21, 2006 8:41:35 PM

My bad... must have lost concentration there for a sec, no they are gas powered... you need to use methane gas to generate steam in order to revolve the turbines to power the thing =)

Actually, they use a peltier cooling system, which adds an extra edge to normal air-cooling. These are low-performance models, designed to decrease temps more than air cooling, but not below ambient. They take an additional 50W or so power though, for the peltier system, but their performance is quite remarkable. There are a number of reviews out there, if your interested.

Or you could just get the inifinty.
September 21, 2006 9:09:18 PM

It seems like both options are a pain to install, but worth it in the end. What is the back plate for? Heck, things are getting out of control. I hope I have space left in my case. Add this here, add that there. Hehehehhehe. I should have gone with something bigger.

How difficult is it to get into water cooling, and how much of an increase is it in performace? Does the cost justify it.

I need help on this one guys. Doesnt seem like there are too many people going in with the aftermarket coolers, judging by the lack of responses to this question vs others I've posted.

Maybe water is the way! YOUR THOUGHTS ???
September 21, 2006 9:13:53 PM

Good grief no. I looked at the prices of water cooling - NO WAY. For the cost, you could rather just get better stock performance components. Thats the hole point of OC'ing, getting more performance for less money. Water cooling just blows that idea right out the water. Not for me. Scythe Infnity is looking good. A couple of hours to go before I buy. Thanks guys.
September 21, 2006 11:08:15 PM

:idea: maybey take a look at a tunic tower the best hs at the moment i tested both and the tunic is better 1
September 21, 2006 11:10:06 PM

Quote:
My bad... must have lost concentration there for a sec, no they are gas powered... you need to use methane gas to generate steam in order to revolve the turbines to power the thing =)

Actually, they use a peltier cooling system,


Yea, I was just teasing you. I've worked with air-cooled TECs and do not anticipate sticking one into my case. A 50 watt TEC is going to dump a load of heat into the case. I actually like the design because it has a fail-safe of sorts.
September 22, 2006 1:12:58 AM

for around 200 you can get an amazing watercooling system.. which will last forever (will be able to transfer it to any future computer)

will make your computer quieter, cooler, look sweeter and be another fun hobby

I am going to get watercooling for my new E6600.. can't wait.

Here is the link to my cart: Watercooling Parts

The only thing is missing is my Swiftech micro resevoir which is out of stock.

All together it will cost me $230USD (shipping included).

I think it will be well worth it, I just don't want to have to take my computer apart :( 
September 22, 2006 2:26:39 AM

I built the following in an Antec SOLO last week:

- ASUS P5B Deluxe WiFi AP
- Core 2 Duo E6600
- Thermalright SI-128 Heatsink w/ Panaflo M1A (medium air flow)
- Arctic silver

My temps are 29C-32C idle, 37C-39C with load (gaming). The Thermalright configuration directs the fan (therefore cooling) toward the motherboard, MOSFET, and NB chipset. I am not overclocking but a fan with higher air flow should work nicely.

Good luck.
September 22, 2006 3:09:41 AM

Quote:
TEC on air works nowhere as efficiently as on water. I've seen those TEC aircooling HSF for ages and they all suck.
The point of the high wattage drawn by TEC is for sub-ambient temperature not some I got to lower temperature by 5C compared to without using TEC on the same HSF.

TEC is reserved for watercooling for best performance.


Yea, air leaves the hot side too hot. A TEC will provide a temperature delta from hot to cold side as long as you keep it within its operating range. As the hot side gets hotter, the cold side also rises in temp. The thing is, typical water/TEC systems dump the heat outside the case. Taking the CPU heat and the TEC heat and dumping them both in the case is very significant since the TEC heat is probably 2X the CPU heat.
September 22, 2006 1:39:09 PM

On the water cooling issue - dont the sockets change constantly, and therefore at some stage you would need to upgrade your system. Also, new tech comes out so often that even though you invest $230 in a new system, it might be obsolete in a year due to the latest and greatest stuff out there.

I am still pretty undecided. I think water cooling is out. I like the Scythe Infinity and will probably go with that. Very hesistant to take everything out my case though - 1st build and everything went perfectly (touch wood). Dont want to stuff about and have something bomb on my. Maybe when I do my 1st round of upgrades (new HD etc) I'll pop it in.

Wish there was some simpler option to cool your CPU.
September 22, 2006 2:20:22 PM

May be a dumb question, but I just looked at a pic of the INF in a case, standing upright, and it looks pretty damn dangerous! Wont this cooler put undue strain on the mobo. It just looks like there will be so much stress on the pipes and mobo when standing the PC upright.
September 22, 2006 2:59:26 PM

Quote:
This article from X-Bit has some comparisons. It seems like the Zalman and the Ninja are neck in neck:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coolers/display/5-cool...

How difficult is the Zalman to install?

(article is dated, but relevant)


I've used both of them. I have installed the Zalman without removing the mobo. It is a little louder than the NPlus but in both of my S939 rigs the Zalman was 2 degrees C cooler. In terms of difficulty, it helps to have an extra pair of hands to get the Zalman started but it's no big deal. i prefer to mount any CPU and HSF outside the case just for access.
September 22, 2006 3:11:49 PM

Quote:
On the water cooling issue - dont the sockets change constantly, and therefore at some stage you would need to upgrade your system. Also, new tech comes out so often that even though you invest $230 in a new system, it might be obsolete in a year due to the latest and greatest stuff out there.

Wish there was some simpler option to cool your CPU.


I think if you buy good parts for water cooling, they will last you through a few rigs. I've seen people move from socket to socket easily.

Yea, a simple solution would be cool. Not on the horizon just yet. I'd like to see a CPU with internal coolant flow routing so I'm looking the other way!
September 22, 2006 3:33:46 PM

Fish i was in your shoes a few weeks ago. I opted to go with the Thermalright Ultra 120. This has out performed the ninja and the infinity. You wuill need to pick up a 2000+ rpm fan for it tho.

here is a pic of it in my system



You can mount it different ways. Horizontal like mine. Or verticle. Very easy to install as well. Also dont let the color of the heat pipes and base fool you. Is nickle plated copper. This is done for optimum heat transfer/disapation.
September 22, 2006 4:13:20 PM

OCNewB!

You just beat me to it man! Listen, thanks for the pic. That's awesome. I just found this link, and I was going to settle this debate once and for all by recommending the Thermalright Ultra-120 !!!!! SNAP! Look at the list of reviews from Silent PC. I was really impressed how comprehensive it is. Not only does the Ultra-120 cool slightly better, but it's smaller and easier to manage! Cant over promote this cooler yet because I havent installed it/used it, but going on my best judgement, I would say it SHOULD win hands down. I'm gonna go with it and buy it this weekend.

Thanks guys!

Here is the link (scroll down):
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article30-page1.html
September 22, 2006 4:15:30 PM

By the way, HOW THE HECK did you manage to get your P180 looking so neat and tidy. Mine looks like a dog show man. Cables everywhere! Your's really looks good. Well done.
September 22, 2006 4:32:47 PM

I would still say the Scythe Infinity would edge out the Thermalright, but then again, whats 1 degree of difference? I'm not sure how heavy the Thermalright is, but it can't be any heavier than the Infinity.

A lot also depends on the fan, and how you position things. If your heatsink fan can exhaust air straight out the back, than thats pretty much optimal.
September 22, 2006 4:42:34 PM

What fan did you buy with the heatsink. It seems you need to get one. You mentioned a 2400RPM one. Which one do you recommend?
September 22, 2006 4:43:25 PM

Also, what fan have you got on you v-card??? Have you OC'ed that as well. Please do share my good fellow. I'm very envious of your system!
September 22, 2006 4:51:43 PM

Get a Delta SHE =P

Panaflow, Scythe, TT, there are many good fans out there, depends on what you want. If you want a quiet high performance fan, than just narrow down your selections between them.
September 22, 2006 5:13:34 PM

Quote:
You can mount it different ways. Horizontal like mine. Or verticle. Very easy to install as well. Also dont let the color of the heat pipes and base fool you. Is nickle plated copper. This is done for optimum heat transfer/disapation.


Nice looking rig. Why did you choose go set it up horizontal? If you went vert, it would blow the hot air right out the back of the case. Would the fan clear the RAM if you set it up vertical?
September 22, 2006 5:32:57 PM

You cant see it well in the pic, but there is also an exhaust fan on the top of the case directly above the cooler. And since heat rises..well =).. The fan to the left of the cooler is a 2800rpm fan and i have it on exhaust as well on full blast. This sucks air from right to left and out, with the cooler fan blowing up an out.

However I did change it back vertical. Because i had 3 extra drive bays i mounted another 120mm fan there. I modded the existing face plates to hold the fan. I then took two heavy pieces of card board and traced out the 120mm fan and cut it out. Then i used a 15in piece of dryer hose, cut a circle out of the cardboard and made a wind tunnel that goes from the top 3bay 120mm fan directly to my cpu cooler 120mm fan. I'll take some pics when i get home to show u what it looks like. Was very fun. This dropped temps by about 4c.
September 22, 2006 5:35:30 PM

Quote:
I'll take some pics when i get home to show u what it looks like. Was very fun. This dropped temps by about 4c.


Cool! Cooling case mods rule! I look forward to the pics.
September 22, 2006 5:57:30 PM

Thats awesome! Those fans you mentioned arent right - some where 80mm and the others dont get to 2400rpms. King Mod Man, which fans do you have ????
September 22, 2006 6:00:07 PM

For the fan you can get This puppy. It comes with a speed controller so you can adjust if its to noisy. The vcard cool is KuFormula VF1. Its a bitch to install unless you have an extra set of hands(Girlfriends work well). I was able to squeeze a little more juice out of my vid card using it. Putting it at 630/790.


edit.. My P180b came with 3x 120mm fans with 3 settings of high med and low. My fan monitor reports them at 2400ish on high.
September 22, 2006 6:30:54 PM

A dumb qustion too - that 3 pin connector, does it supply power or is it just for monitoring. I got a fan with a 4 pin and 3 pin connector. I connected the 4pin the the PSU, and the 3 pin I just left. Was nervous to plug it in incase it was a double power whammy or something. Works fine, but would be nice if I could monitor it. Thanks.
September 22, 2006 6:34:54 PM

A quick response if you have a moment before I buy. I already have this fan in my case:
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E1683...

Will this work with the Thermalright cooler? Please let me know ASAP.

What I will do then is move this fan onto the cooler, and maybe get the Thermalake fan I mentioned before for the case.

Please let me know if that fan is good enough, then I can go ahead and buy.

THANKS!
September 22, 2006 6:53:19 PM

Quote:
A quick response if you have a moment before I buy. I already have this fan in my case:
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?item=N82E1683...

Will this work with the Thermalright cooler? Please let me know ASAP.

What I will do then is move this fan onto the cooler, and maybe get the Thermalake fan I mentioned before for the case.

Please let me know if that fan is good enough, then I can go ahead and buy.


Fans are relatively standardized, so a 12 fits in a 12 opening. You can get fans wired with 3 leads that let you monitor fan rpm. You can pay big bucks to get a quieter fan, or at least one that the seller convinces you is quieter... Assiming you're getting a 12cm x 2.5 fan, what it really gets down to is cfm vs dB and whether or not it's got the monitor lead. Realize that cfm and dB specs are not regulated by a government agency and manufacturers do what they want to do regarding how they measure. Also realize that a typical dBa or dBc measurement may not fully correlate with what your ear perceives as louder or quieter, let alone "more irritating". So I recommend going with a quality fan (your Vantec is good, as are fans by TT, Nexus, Yate Loon, Antec, $ilenX, etc.) and take the specs with a grain of salt, they are just a general guide. Some quiet fans use resistors to limit the rpm of the fan at a given voltage to keep the noise down and this also limits the cfm. For a HSF, I'd stay away from a quiet fan that will, for example, only go to 1100 rpm. I'm willing to put up with a little fan noise in exchange for increased cooling at load.

Did you look at the Arctic Cooling CPU HSF? Great value and performance per buck.
September 22, 2006 7:03:21 PM

I did, but didnt really see any benchies on that one. I think the Thermalright Ultra is a the way forward, really. A little more expensive, but so what. If I can get to 3.6ghz then I am all set. Thats the goal. An extra 1ghz per core would have cost a heck of a lot more that $60. I should get great performance out of that.

Thanks for the info on the fans. Much apprecaited.
!