Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

YES! Core2Duo + AGP!

Tags:
  • Motherboards
  • Asus
  • Graphics Cards
  • Next Generation
  • Product
Last response: in Motherboards
Share
September 23, 2006 1:47:30 PM

I have a 6800GS AGP video card I like and now I can combine it with Core2Duo.

If anyone is interested in keeping agp until the next gen video cards come out that is.

Asus P5PE-VM
$65 on TigerDirect.com

More about : core2duo agp

a b V Motherboard
a b Ĉ ASUS
a b U Graphics card
September 23, 2006 4:36:41 PM

How about Core2Duo and still being able to keep your AGP video card and DDR RAM?
Plus having PCI-E x16 and DDR2 upgrade option on the same board?
Asrock 775Dual-VSTA $56
Review of the 775Dual-VSTA motherboard

(also the ASUS P5PE-VM was $53 @ Newegg and it also uses DDR not DDR2)
September 23, 2006 5:04:36 PM

Hahah excellent review. A card running in 4x mode (slower than agp 4x) keeps up with one running in 16x. Maybe the people who swear blindly that you have to have pci-e to play games will think differently now.

The best feature is the fact it has 4 PCI slots. I do wonder when i look at new mobos with lots of pci-e slots what i am meant to put in them. Only mainstrream pci-e based cards are graphics cards.

I might just buy one of these, It's a common sense board, with needed features. Upgrade i have been looking for, and will save me 400quid.
Related resources
September 23, 2006 5:08:48 PM

the PCI express slot only runs at x4 speeds. does this make a real-world difference?
September 23, 2006 5:11:17 PM

Quote:
the PCI express slot only runs at x4 speeds. does this make a real-world difference?


Not really. If you are buying this board you most likely have an AGP card anyway and want a cheap core2duo upgrade. The difference is most likely due to the board quality rather than the speed of the PCI-E slot.
September 23, 2006 5:19:31 PM

but the AGP is true AGP slot right?
September 23, 2006 5:21:11 PM

Yes.
September 23, 2006 6:04:44 PM

this I will buy!! dirt cheap and i can keep my 6800 until dx10 cards come out
September 23, 2006 6:21:36 PM

And then have your Direct X10 card limited on PCIe 4x?
September 23, 2006 6:29:50 PM

Quote:
And then have your Direct X10 card limited on PCIe 4x?



People buying this board want a cheap upgrade for their current hardware. Look at the cost's then see why what you are saying is irrelevent to people who will buy this board.

If you buy a "better" board you'll have to buy a PCI-E gfx card now which is another cost, DDR2 Memory another cost. Then when DX10 cards come out those will both be obsolete which means more cost. Buying for something that doesn't even exist is the biggest mistake you can make when building a computer (unless the release is imminent). With vista not even released officially yet DX10 is non existant

If you care so much about DX10 (which is over hyped) you wouldn't be buying this board.
September 23, 2006 6:34:27 PM

The point of the board is that you put your existing RAM+AGP card in it now, then slowly upgrade Gfx and Ram, then replace mobo.
September 23, 2006 7:24:40 PM

The point of this mobo that you keep your gfx, ram oh and PSU!!! I will never pay 250$ for a m/b. Not all of us can pay 1500$ cash to get a newer system.
and another thing is that ddr2 ram exists and is overhyped, only ddr2@800mhz makes a noticeable difference which is like 7-8%? Next gen gfx cards are just round the corner. At around xmas time DX10 will exist, in the case that is really bs and doesn't make that much difference from dx9 it will make my choice to buy this mobo ever more justified. I'll just wait and see.
September 23, 2006 9:31:57 PM

Quote:
the PCI express slot only runs at x4 speeds. does this make a real-world difference?

Not according to Anandtech.
September 23, 2006 10:28:02 PM

^^
So AGP 8x still has a couple of years in it yet ;) 
September 23, 2006 10:35:57 PM

As far as I can remember, the 8X bandwidth in the AGP was never close to being saturated.
September 23, 2006 10:56:23 PM

Quote:
As far as I can remember, the 8X bandwidth in the AGP was never close to being saturated.


Correct. This i what annoys me about new motherboards. I appreciate things have to move on but some AGP support from manufacturers wouldn't go a miss. Not everyone is a hardcore gamer, and computers revolve around things other than graphics cards :roll:
September 23, 2006 11:14:36 PM

Correct.

Unfortunately, most of the people on this forum are gamers, and they feel the need to put in their opinions, even though they are impertinent to the discussion.

I think that PCIe was just an evolutionary step, not revolutionary. GPU companies wanted to sell more cards, so along came a new technology on the PCI bus that let you put more parts on the same bus. Brilliant! Can't do that with AGP, so PCIe is instantly better.

Makes me wonder why SATA was invented...we still can't saturate an IDE bus...so why do we need something faster? Oh, right, to sell more stuff to people who don't know any better. Like me...my 3 drives are SATA. :roll:
September 23, 2006 11:22:27 PM

If you're not a gamer, why do you care about AGP/PCIe? Surely onboard video will do just fine.

Another main advantage of PCIe (above the bandwidth) is it holds extra power. Mosts cards today are PCIe + an extra connector, you might need 2 or 3 connectors to run the same card on AGP.

And.. you don't see any advantage in SATA? Do you know what "airflow" is? Get a server case with 8 drives and test the heat with IDE and SATA drives.

As for the AsRock motherboard, I quote "Pairing the motherboard with a top end GPU results in performance that can be up to 10% slower in certain applications than competing motherboards." Just remember that they obviously mean today's high-end. If it's 10% today, what will it be in a years time? Two? Three? I wouldn't base buying a new system around the hope that somehow bandwidth requirements stay semi-stable.

Synergy6
September 23, 2006 11:26:14 PM

Quote:
Correct.

Unfortunately, most of the people on this forum are gamers, and they feel the need to put in their opinions, even though they are impertinent to the discussion.

I think that PCIe was just an evolutionary step, not revolutionary. GPU companies wanted to sell more cards, so along came a new technology on the PCI bus that let you put more parts on the same bus. Brilliant! Can't do that with AGP, so PCIe is instantly better.

Makes me wonder why SATA was invented...we still can't saturate an IDE bus...so why do we need something faster? Oh, right, to sell more stuff to people who don't know any better. Like me...my 3 drives are SATA. :roll:


Agreed. 1 IDE slot on new boards...So how do i plug in a HDD, DVD and CD-Writer? Are there SATA DVD Writers? I haven't seen one. Why would i want one? My current drive is fine. On the plus I like SATA because it's more compact, but 6-8 connectors on new mobo's. Who really has that many drives. I know you'll get the people who do, but they are the minority. 2/3 years time fair enough phase IDE out, but it seems nothing accomodates for people with "older" hardware anymore.

Also the new boards have far too many PCI-E slots. Where am i going to put my 4 PCI cards? Some of the new Asus ones have 2 PCI Slots!!! Although they "redeem" theirselves with plenty of onboard features the majority of users never use, and i doubt even the enthusiasts use.
September 23, 2006 11:43:28 PM

This cute little Asrock mobo is exactly what I was waiting for. I seriously consider a CPU upgrade, but for me, it also meant changing RAM, Gfx, and even PSU. a mobo like this one could allow me to keep my DDR and my AGP card for a while, then change the DDR for DDR2, then buy a DX10 PCI-E graphics card, and finally replace the mobo with something with more features...

a soft upgrade, at a soft price : 52€ (= $66.56)

and performance seems to be there too...
September 24, 2006 6:23:29 AM

Quote:
As for the AsRock motherboard, I quote "Pairing the motherboard with a top end GPU results in performance that can be up to 10% slower in certain applications than competing motherboards." Just remember that they obviously mean today's high-end. If it's 10% today, what will it be in a years time? Two? Three? I wouldn't base buying a new system around the hope that somehow bandwidth requirements stay semi-stable.

Synergy6

The general idea behind the Asrock boards are to allow people to get started on an upgrade path to C2D without getting everything all at once. They allow you to keep your existing RAM and graphics card and enable one to buy when they can. Their performance isn't high-end, more along the lines of low-end mainstream. Most people who purchase this board will do it for convenience and price and with the notion that they will replace it with a better board in the future when they can. People who buy top-end graphics cards do not usually fit this style of thinking and do not usually buy motherboards like this.
September 24, 2006 12:04:39 PM

Quote:
People who buy top-end graphics cards do not usually fit this style of thinking and do not usually buy motherboards like this.


1) I said "I wouldn't", I was giving *my* opinion.
2) If he's not worried about any top end cards, then DX10 shouldn't be on his radar for quite a while.
Synergy6
September 24, 2006 12:34:36 PM

The general idea behind the Asrock boards are to allow people to get started on an upgrade path to C2D without getting everything all at once. They allow you to keep your existing RAM and graphics card and enable one to buy when they can.

But mostly, a mobo that costs fifty bucks won't cause any tears when you upgrade and throw it away.
September 24, 2006 1:06:02 PM

Quote:
The general idea behind the Asrock boards are to allow people to get started on an upgrade path to C2D without getting everything all at once. They allow you to keep your existing RAM and graphics card and enable one to buy when they can.

But mostly, a mobo that costs fifty bucks won't cause any tears when you upgrade and throw it away.


lol! I bet you could still sell it for 20 bucks!!
September 24, 2006 1:53:55 PM

Quote:
the PCI express slot only runs at x4 speeds. does this make a real-world difference?

Not according to Anandtech.

Word.

Thanks the lord for innovation!
September 24, 2006 9:48:31 PM

Quote:
1) I said "I wouldn't", I was giving *my* opinion.
Synergy6

Gotcha. :wink:
September 25, 2006 5:03:32 AM

Quote:
Agreed. 1 IDE slot on new boards...So how do i plug in a HDD, DVD and CD-Writer? Are there SATA DVD Writers? I haven't seen one.


Clicky

Quote:
Why would i want one? My current drive is fine.


Good question...now, there isn't really an answer. Maybe the IDE controller on the user's mobo is damaged, and instead of replacing the mobo...

Yeah, that was bull, I'm sorry.
September 25, 2006 8:21:16 AM

Quote:
Agreed. 1 IDE slot on new boards...So how do i plug in a HDD, DVD and CD-Writer? Are there SATA DVD Writers? I haven't seen one.


Clicky

Quote:
Why would i want one? My current drive is fine.


Good question...now, there isn't really an answer. Maybe the IDE controller on the user's mobo is damaged, and instead of replacing the mobo...

Yeah, that was bull, I'm sorry.

Cool they are out. I don't need one though ;)  My ATA one is as fast and in perfect working order :p  At least they are pretty cheap. I will be glad to see the end of the ribbon cables, just not while all my stuff is on them ;) 
September 25, 2006 3:21:37 PM

Yeah, and supposedly they have problems. I hear they can be glitchy, and during the Windows installation process there's a good chance that it won't be detected, simply because no one uses them.

And besides...what's the point of having a SATA interface for optical storage? If a hard drive can't saturate the IDE bus, then there's no way in hell an optical drive can...foolishness.
September 25, 2006 3:31:27 PM

Quote:
And besides...what's the point of having a SATA interface for optical storage? If a hard drive can't saturate the IDE bus, then there's no way in hell an optical drive can...foolishness.


Airflow? It's a bit annoying when you've just switched your HDDs to SATA and lost those huge cables, but have to run a couple more of them because optical drives are behind the times. There are considerations in technology which don't come down to "How much bandwidth?"

Synergy6
September 25, 2006 3:37:28 PM

Majority of people don't have 6 SATA drives and thus don't require that much airflow. You are a special case. Why should the design of boards be made around the minority? Server's could have a lot of drives, but you don't want a SLI board in a server do you?
So who are these boards aimed at? People with more money than brains by the looks of most of them.
And still why do away with the 2nd IDE connector, it wouldnt take much just to leave 2 there.
You can have 8 sata and 2 IDE connectors, or can't you? Is that illegal to have on a motherboard?
September 25, 2006 4:13:50 PM

I bought the Asrock 775 Dual VSTA mobo, even after reading some horror stories, but I have no problems with it, Its not a great overclocker, but i did not buy it for that. I bought it as a stop gap, can't upgrade everything at once due to monetary constraints.

So I bought this with an E6600, and a ThermalTake Golden Orb 2, and kept my existing DDR and AGP card to use with this.

Let me just say that I ran a custom Quake 4 timedemo using my old overclocked AMD64 3000+ (2.6ghz) and I was getting 36 fps on high Quality 1024x768 no anti aliasing with my old 6800GT, now I am getting 79 fps..... I know someone will tell me to get a new GPU, and i will at some point, but like i said b4 I am not made out of money.

I ran Counter Strike Source Stress Test with a custom script that reduces all the eye candy to get pure performance speeds here are the results:

AMD 64 3000+ @ 2.6 ghz average fps: 202
E6600 @ 2.4ghz average fps: 291

I had a cap on my max fps to 300, so it's quite possible that that cud be even higher.
September 25, 2006 4:27:33 PM

Quote:
Majority of people don't have 6 SATA drives and thus don't require that much airflow. You are a special case. Why should the design of boards be made around the minority? Server's could have a lot of drives, but you don't want a SLI board in a server do you?
So who are these boards aimed at? People with more money than brains by the looks of most of them.
And still why do away with the 2nd IDE connector, it wouldnt take much just to leave 2 there.
You can have 8 sata and 2 IDE connectors, or can't you? Is that illegal to have on a motherboard?


... I'm not quite sure who you think I am. I don't have 6 SATA drives, neither am I a "special case". I am interested in computer hardware, but then that doesn't exactly make me "special" around these 'ere parts.

Anyway, the point is you were saying "Why put optical drives on SATA when they don't saturate the IDE bus?" I was showing that there are other, non-bandwidth related issues that also advocate a change. You don't need a lot of drives to care about airflow.

I don't see how you go from me questioning one of your points to: "special case" "minority" "SLI board" "more money than brains" etc.

In fact, not that you cared to ask, but I think most boards SHOULD keep two IDE connectors. I do, however, disagree with the idea that putting optical drives on SATA is pointless. Perhaps if you spent less time making wild assumptions about my hardware situation you'd realise that.

Synergy6
September 25, 2006 4:28:36 PM

Jesus that difference in FPS in quake 4 is massive, did you use the Dual Core optimizer thingie?
September 25, 2006 4:34:37 PM

if you mean the multiple core option in the Quake 4 settings with update patch 1.3 then yes, i swtiched that on.

If you have a dual core cpu i recommend enabling that option in the Quake settings.
September 25, 2006 4:35:09 PM

Quote:
Majority of people don't have 6 SATA drives and thus don't require that much airflow. You are a special case. Why should the design of boards be made around the minority? Server's could have a lot of drives, but you don't want a SLI board in a server do you?
So who are these boards aimed at? People with more money than brains by the looks of most of them.
And still why do away with the 2nd IDE connector, it wouldnt take much just to leave 2 there.
You can have 8 sata and 2 IDE connectors, or can't you? Is that illegal to have on a motherboard?


... I'm not quite sure who you think I am. I don't have 6 SATA drives, neither am I a "special case". I am interested in computer hardware, but then that doesn't exactly make me "special" around these 'ere parts.

Anyway, the point is you were saying "Why put optical drives on SATA when they don't saturate the IDE bus?" I was showing that there are other, non-bandwidth related issues that also advocate a change. You don't need a lot of drives to care about airflow.

I don't see how you go from me questioning one of your points to: "special case" "minority" "SLI board" "more money than brains" etc.

In fact, not that you cared to ask, but I think most boards SHOULD keep two IDE connectors. I do, however, disagree with the idea that putting optical drives on SATA is pointless. Perhaps if you spent less time making wild assumptions about my hardware situation you'd realise that.

Synergy6

There seems to have been a misunderstanding. I never said Optical drives on SATA is pointless. I think its a great idea, the only point i was arguing was the fact that boards should still support 2 IDE connectors.

In an earlier post you did say...
Quote:
And.. you don't see any advantage in SATA? Do you know what "airflow" is? Get a server case with 8 drives and test the heat with IDE and SATA drives.

...which i took my 6 drives (for instance) figure from. That to me is a special case. If you don't have 8 drives fair enough, you were arguing the case for SATA with that example. I see your point, its a fair one. Most people don't have 8 drives though.
September 25, 2006 4:38:37 PM

I was simply using 8 as an extreme example to illustrate the point. I don't have 8 drives, nor will I ever (probably).

Quote:
And besides...what's the point of having a SATA interface for optical storage? If a hard drive can't saturate the IDE bus, then there's no way in hell an optical drive can...foolishness.


What you originally commented on was my reply to the above post, my apologies for not checking the author.

Synergy6
September 25, 2006 4:39:29 PM

This post is going to have no relevance to anything:

EXTREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEME.
September 25, 2006 4:40:07 PM

heh no worries i thought you made that confusion. I personally like SATA. Ribbon cables are a pain in the ass. But i'll grin and bare them for now since all my IDE stuff works :p 
September 25, 2006 9:09:01 PM

yo

Here is something that might interest you, the 8xAGP standard is SLI capable. If dont believe me go read up on the standard, so PCIe isnt even an evolutionary step in its ability to support multiple graphics cards on the same bus, it just has a wider pipeline then 8xAGP, which isnt even being fully utilized even by dual GPU cards atm, only the 2x2 SLI configuration is capable of maxing out the PCIe bus, which is why it is necessary. The real reason PCIe was adopted was because Nvidia wanted to bring back SLI was so they could make more money, selling more single core GPU's and 8xAGP didnt have the scalability they needed to acomplish that goal. What does this mean for the average gamer? absolutely nothing, and what does this mean for the average computer user? Even less. Having multiple graphics cards or even multiple GPU's on one graphics card is an attempt to slow the fast moving pace of technological progress so they can make more money. Whats going to be better for their bottom line, building one card with a dual or quad core GPU, or building a card with a single core GPU, or dual single core GPU's, then giving us the option to go out and buy another card with a single core GPU, or two single core GPU's? money money money, Nvidia is shameless, and ATI is no better, if ATI was really interested in defeating Nvidia or providing the best possible product to the consumer they would have introduced a Dual core or Quad core GPU, but what they really want is more competition and to snow everyone over, and pad their bottom line, just like Nvidia. Dont believe everything you read, all these companies care about is making money, they dont give two shiits about graphics evolution they just care about how much money they can make durring the journey. Ah capitalism at its finest.

p.s the lighthouse keeper is fired.

Late
September 25, 2006 9:23:20 PM

Quote:
all these companies care about is making money, they dont give two shiits about graphics evolution they just care about how much money they can make durring the journey. Ah capitalism at its finest.


Thanks for the economics lesson. The primary aim of firms is generally assumed to be profit maximisation, or by extension, loss minimisation. How many tech companies do you know who have another primary aim?
Synergy6
September 25, 2006 9:42:56 PM

Quote:
Thanks for the economics lesson. The primary aim of firms is generally assumed to be profit maximisation, or by extension, loss minimisation. How many tech companies do you know who have another primary aim?
Synergy6


I write an intelligent response to something someone said and all you can do is be a smart arse, go bleed all over someone else, go find your mommy and tell her you just hit puberty, and that you need some tampons. Kill yourself...
September 25, 2006 9:50:30 PM

Beware that the motherboard listed by the OP can have issues where the network card doesn't work. We purchased 5 of these boards and 2 needed replacement due to the network card failing. Otherwise if you want your Core 2 machine on an 865 chipset, this is your board.
September 25, 2006 9:56:33 PM

Thanks for the plug :p 
Synergy6
September 25, 2006 10:02:55 PM

LoL Synergy, you edited your post after I had already written a comeback, thats NO FUN!

gg
September 25, 2006 10:14:34 PM

Quote:
well i was attempting to diffuse and instruct.
companies in tech create a product to grow into,so they can keep overhead costs reasonable,and progress that line of product until a profit is reached that is suitable.
we wouldnt buy 5 pounds of bologna for one sandwich ,just to turn around and spend more on another 5 pounds for a better recipe and so on.that would kill a deli in weeks.
the same applies to tech,a new core design every year would not only be costly,it would be stupid to throw that kind of money at the short term and make nothing from the prior design.


I dont dissagree on any particular point, but I do disagree with their direction and lack of vision, in going with SLI instead of just building a multicore GPU, also wouldnt it have been easier to build a driver set for a multicore GPU, and cause way less headaches in the long run for game designers, I think so.
Meh, but whatever...
!