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AM2 lifecycle...discuss...please stay on the AM2 topic.

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September 25, 2006 12:10:42 AM

Hey there folks. I bought a new AM2 system with a slower CPU so that I can upgrade to some next gen CPU in the near future. Have I been burnt? What do you figure this socket's lifecycle will be? If I can't upgrade to a pretty decent chip a year and a half down the road, I'll never buy AMD again, bottom line.

Discuss
September 25, 2006 12:20:42 AM

The FX line looks to be moving to a different socket based on the Socket F in 4x4. Otherwise, I don't think you'll have much problem upgrading later for AM2. AM3 is supposed to be out H2 2007/Q1 2008 and that will add K8L, DDR3 and HT3.0. However, AMD has said that K8L's memory controller is also backwards compatible with DDR2 in order to support the AM2 platform. That means that you will be able to upgrade to AMD's next generation although it won't be as fast as on it's native platform.
September 25, 2006 1:22:51 AM

Quote:
Hey there folks. I bought a new AM2 system with a slower CPU so that I can upgrade to some next gen CPU in the near future. Have I been burnt? What do you figure this socket's lifecycle will be? If I can't upgrade to a pretty decent chip a year and a half down the road, I'll never buy AMD again, bottom line.

Discuss



No there will be a new dual core in August or so of next year, though 5000+ will be much cheaper in retail in the next few months. That will be close to an FX60.
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September 25, 2006 2:54:06 AM

Just wanted to point out that DDR3 is supposed to run at 1.5V vs 1.8v for DDR2. Unless the motherboard can dial down the Memory voltage or that DDR3 can run at .3v over spec or a combination of the two then you should be okay.
September 25, 2006 3:31:58 AM

Hi Jack,

I will do my best. I have been looking for any documentation on just this issue. The only thing I had heard initially was the drop in operating voltage to 1.5V. I have been check on the various memory vendor sites but have not located any DDR3 information. I do remember several of the vendors have announced DDR3 Engineering samples. I will also check with my Intel contacts and see what they have to say. I have know a Desgin Engineer for the new Bearlake chipset. He works on the RVP boards. The Bearlake-G+ board is the first one to support DDR3 and the Bearlake-X which will replace the Bad Axe eventually is supposed to support DDR3 when it launches. Of course this is all dependent on the Memory Vendors being able to provide enought DDR3 at the board launch.
September 25, 2006 4:03:42 AM

your cpu will be good for a bit.although amd is changing to a new socket in the next year or so,you will still be able to upgrade to a higher performing cpu.on the am2 line.as for upgrading to the newest and latest in a year or so,well that may very well require a new board and cpu.but that happens man.it lets you see what is out there.i personally like to change hardware quite frequently and yes it is costly,but it is also fun and challenging.so buck up and take it like a man.later dude.goodluck.

Dahak

EVGA NF4 SLI MB
X2 4400+@2.4 S-939
2 7800GT'S IN SLI MODE
2X1GIG DDR400 MEMORY IN DC MODE
WD300GIG HD
520WATT PSU
EXTREME 19IN.MONITOR
September 25, 2006 4:05:13 AM

Well, we are in luck. Samsung has put up information since the last time I looked. Micron only had marketing blurbs.

http://www.samsung.com/Products/Semiconductor/DDR3SDRAM/index.htm

Here are some excerpts for those not wanting to follow the thread.


EDP(Electronic Data Processing) Systems work more efficiently with DRAM that provides high performance and low power consumption. DDR3 SDRAM is ready to be released to easily meet the needs of these types of applications. DDR3 SDRAM uses 1.5V, reducing module power consumption by up to 30% compared to DDR2 at the same speed.

Here is their marketing blurb but with a lot more infomation than what Micron had. Notice the error they have in their chart listing composition. :) 

http://www.samsung.com/Products/Semiconductor/Support/ebrochure/memory/ddr3_datasheet_200609.pdf

Qimondo again has limited marketing blurb.

http://www.qimonda.com/computing-dram/ddr3/index.html

And Elpida has about the same information as Samsung does. Looks like Samsung and Elpida are the ones to watch out for for the first and early samples of DDR3 to be available.

http://www.elpida.com/en/products/ddr3.html
September 25, 2006 1:22:14 PM

Wow, thanks guys! Lots of good info here. I'm rather disappointed regarding all of these new sockets. I'll have to see what's out there in a year and make a decision. I love this motherboard and paid quite a bit of money for the upgradeability and performance. I was hoping it would last me well into Vista (6mo to a year after the release to iron out some things).

I guess I'll just have to wait and see what happens. I would really appreciate it if they mastered AM2 in a year and a half and came out with a top dog at that time.
September 25, 2006 6:27:40 PM

Seriously, who really cares about socket changes? I sure don't. I'm not going to complain when I buy a Quad-core K8L and won't be able to use it in my S939 board.

Motherboards are the cheapest component (unless you want an overpiced "enthusiast board", which isn't worth it IMO) in a system and are easy to change out. :wink:
September 25, 2006 6:49:10 PM

Quote:
Seriously, who really cares about socket changes? I sure don't. I'm not going to complain when I buy a Quad-core K8L and won't be able to use it in my S939 board.

Motherboards are the cheapest component (unless you want an overpiced "enthusiast board", which isn't worth it IMO) in a system and are easy to change out. :wink:


Yea I agree with ya about the enthusiast boards. When I bought my board almost 2 yrs ago it was $99 and was dirt cheap for what I got in features and still performs very well as you can see with my setup in my sig. But I guess if you have the money and that is what you want go for it. It is kinda like buying a lexus when you could get basically the same thing in a toyota. Just a few more bells and whistles but basically the same base.

(GlacierFreeze: If you don't care about socket changes then why are you posting here? Some of us do care because we want to get the most out of what we purchase.)

If I can get 2 to 2.5 years out of this board, I'll be a happy camper. This board is nice because it's got a third PCIx8 slot...maybe a PPU? It was time to get a new computer and I couldn't wait, so I tried to get the best upgrade-friendly setup I could for Vista when it matures a little more. I had no other choice as far as I'm concerned.
September 25, 2006 6:53:45 PM

I see your point. :D  My point was simply that some people are willing to shell out $400+ on a new CPU or GPU and complain about having to spend an extra $70 (if that much) on a new mobo.
September 25, 2006 7:12:46 PM

Quote:
I see your point. :D  My point was simply that some people are willing to shell out $400+ on a new CPU or GPU and complain about having to spend an extra $70 (if that much) on a new mobo.


Ahh I see, I appologize for the e-attitude ;) 

Instead...I gave out $250 on the board expecting some conroe-mashing CPU from AMD lol...i'm actually laughing... I will however buy AMD's FX62 if it falls to about $300 or $400 bucks. Unless of course something better comes out (which is what this thread is all about)...

$70 rounds up to 100 with shipping, tax, and exchange (maybe more than 100) and that's nothing to sneeze at. 100 bux is still 100 bux. You'd expect that if you buy new technology (minus VHS-BETA lol) you'd get support for that technology for at least 3 years...If AM2 dies after only 1.5 years i'd feel pretty ripped. When AM2 came out, AMD really wanted you to go with some of the faster chips and such. You'd think They would want to sell you another chip with huge performance gains wothout spending the money on a new mobo, money you could have spent on the new chip you're about to upgrade to.
September 25, 2006 7:15:14 PM

In regards to verndewd's question about the timings. These timings represent memory latency settings, and are measurements in cpu clock cycles. This would be my only concern for AMD's DDR3 platform... If you compare memory bandwidth of socket 939 vs. am2, DDR1 @ 400MHz vs. AM2 w/ DDR2 @ 800MHz... You'll find that AM2 actually provide the SAME, or sometimes even less memory bandwidth, using any CPU clocked under 2.4GHz.

So on the low end (2.2GHz and below), DDR2 @ 800MHz actually gives LESS memory bandwidth than the same configuration on Socket939 w/ DDR1 @ 400MHz...

This is due to the fact that DDR2 has inherently higher latencies (CAS 4 and 5 latencies on DDR2 vs. CAS 2 and 3 on DDR1). Sinse these latencies are measured in CPU clock cycles, higher clocked processors are less effected by the latency bottleneck, so with a AMD 64 AM2 3800+ CPU @ 2.4GHz, you WILL find MORE memory bandwidth (~7.4GB/sec using DDR2 @ 800MHz & CAS4) vs. Socket939 (~6GB/sec using DDR1 @ 400MHz & CAS2), but using the same memory, and a slower processor (3200+), you'll find that DDR2 800MHz will render less memory badnwidth.

DDR3 will have even higher latencies than DDR2, so even if speed of the ram is higher (upto effectively 1600MHz), the latencies increased too, and you could be looking at little performance/bandwidth increases unless your using a CPU with a higher clock frequency (perhaps anything 2.6GHz and up)...

The moral of the story is, there are still some benefits to using a new generation of DDR on AMD platforms, but because of AMDs architecture of smaller caches than intel and lower clockspeeds, the performance benefit may only be marginal unless you make smart purchasing choices and opt for a CPU with higher clock-rate. On the other, greener, side of the coin, energy effciency should see a great benefit from switching to DDR3.

Anyways, this is all just speculation based on the transition from s939 to AM2.. Happy Building everyone.
September 25, 2006 7:20:25 PM

I've read that despite there being a lower voltage required for ddr3, the higher clock frequencies available will result in an actual increase in power consumption.

Actually just reread your post and they did state 30% less power consumption at same clock speed. However, i'm sure they push higher clock speeds.
September 25, 2006 7:36:44 PM

it is true, but for the same frequency, you get less power used for DDR3 than DDR2. They're going to try to push DDR3 to 1600 MHz, DDR2 right now is topping out at 1066.

I will be surprised if AMD doesn't do the same thing intel did with their "BIOS update" for the new chips. If it supports both DDR2 and 3, then why would you need a new socket? They should make it pin-compatible, so that people can just drop in the new chip and, if they want DDR3 at some point, THEN they can upgrade the board. I haven't seen any proof that they're making a new socket for the DDR3 platform.
September 25, 2006 7:38:44 PM

Quote:
it is true, but for the same frequency, you get less power used for DDR3 than DDR2.

I will be surprised if AMD doesn't do the same thing intel did with their "BIOS update" for the new chips. If it supports both DDR2 and 3, then why would you need a new socket? They should make it pin-compatible, so that people can just drop in the new chip and, if they want DDR3 at some point, THEN they can upgrade the board. I haven't seen any proof that they're making a new socket for the DDR3 platform.


The DDR2 and DDR3 modules may not be compatible at all.

Socket AM3 for DDR3...... widely-spread news already. :roll:
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