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New rig incoming, feel free to advise please

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September 25, 2006 12:48:24 PM

- P5B (intel i965X - "Core 2 Duo" Ready)
- CORE 2 DUO E6700 - 2x2666Mhz (DualCore "Conroe" BOX)
- Corsair 2x1GB DDR2-1067 Dominator XMS2 (TWIN2X2048-8500C5DF)
- Asus EN7950GX2/2PHT/1G PCIE (2x500/1200-512bit) Retail
- 150GB RaptorX SATA WD1500AHFD (Gamer Ed. 16MB 10.000rpm)

I'm not a great OC lover, i only play slightly w/ Ram times and cpu speed, thus would you add a watercooling system? What components would you swap for?

Thank you vm.
September 25, 2006 4:41:05 PM

Good rig.. I think you are a gamer, am I right so far? If so, no components need change, expect the HDD. Try put a SATAII in, for even more speed 8) .

I dont trust water cooling, water doesn't belong in a computer, in my opinion. If you install it incorrectly it will mean the end of your new rig.
September 25, 2006 4:42:14 PM

no point in goin for water cooling if yer only tinkering a little with OCing
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September 25, 2006 5:05:02 PM

Quote:
Good rig.. I think you are a gamer, am I right so far? If so, no components need change, expect the HDD. Try put a SATAII in, for even more speed 8) .


Guess again. Maybe go do a little research before posting such BS.
September 25, 2006 5:45:35 PM

I wouldn't go for the dominator memory for a Conroe build, especially if you are not going to overclock. I would either OC the system (which you are going to have alot of OC room with that ram and M/B) or go for some cheaper memory with tighter timings, something like this: G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 (PC2 5400). It's your call in the end.
September 25, 2006 5:56:07 PM

suggested changes :

seagate 320gb 7200.10 (data) + 74gb raptor 10000 rpm (apps and games)

intel core 2 duo e6600 cheaper and e6700 doesnt bring much more performance to the table at the increased price you pay.

ati x1950xtx or get a cheaper one if you are going to upgrade to directx 10 as soon as it comes out (if only if :D  ) if you do get acheaper one look at the 7900gs or 1900gt or 7900gt.

get a aftermarket cooler so you get slightly lower temps and slightly less noise (watercooling is slightly overkill :lol:  )

dont get the 1111mhz corsair dominator ram for core 2 duo, especially not for core 2 duo unless you're very very very heavily overclocking, as they dont give much of a performance increase for the price. also perhaps wait a while before buying because ram is expensive at the moment.. :(  .id get ddr2 800 instead if you want performance, itll be cheaper and the dominator ram wont perform much better than 800mhz ddr2, also latency is hhidden more with core 2 duo so there is no need to get very tight timings if you're going with core 2 duo.
September 25, 2006 6:23:06 PM

Quote:
Good rig.. I think you are a gamer, am I right so far? If so, no components need change, expect the HDD. Try put a SATAII in, for even more speed 8) .


Guess again. Maybe go do a little research before posting such BS.

Can you express yourself alittle better?
September 25, 2006 6:26:38 PM

1) Get cheaper RAM if you aren't overclocking

2) Get E6600

3) Don't bother with watercooling

4) Get a Scythe Ninja or similar even if you don't OC - they're quiet as.


oh and to the guy who said:

Quote:
Good rig.. I think you are a gamer, am I right so far? If so, no components need change, expect the HDD. Try put a SATAII in, for even more speed .


Yeah, those Raptors are real slow, damn, make sure you get a SATAII disk, much faster than those Raptors that run off your serial port....what's that? The S in SATA is serial? Well I'll be.....why'dju wana plug a drive into the serial port for??
September 25, 2006 6:50:56 PM

Quote:

Yeah, those Raptors are real slow, damn, make sure you get a SATAII disk, much faster than those Raptors that run off your serial port....what's that? The S in SATA is serial? Well I'll be.....why'dju wana plug a drive into the serial port for??


:lol: 

yeah because sata is too slowwwww get sata 2! its sooooo much more faster, hardly. Oh and make sure you get a 2500000rpm ( :lol:  ) disk as well itll make games a lot more quicker, no it will, honest youll just have a hole in the side of your case, oh and and a fried HDD... :lol: 

SATAII doesnt make much if any difference, RPM does make a difference however. Although a high rpm disk will obivously be running hotter than a standard720rpm disk killercop. :wink:

he was only trying to help, dont worry killercop were only joking aboutn the HDD :D 
September 25, 2006 6:57:14 PM

Heh, okay. But on paper the SATAII can transer twice more than SATA disks... Though I know the RPM, and all the other, is the same, and I know the biggest difference is the RPM. I ment SATAII, for getting alittle more speed, for the price is almost the same. Thats what I ment.
September 25, 2006 7:12:20 PM

Quote:
Heh, okay. But on paper the SATAII can transer twice more than SATA disks... Though I know the RPM, and all the other, is the same, and I know the biggest difference is the RPM. I ment SATAII, for getting alittle more speed, for the price is almost the same. Thats what I ment.


Wanna borrow a shovel?
September 25, 2006 7:16:30 PM

HDD's can barely hit the limit for SATA right now, therefore SATAII is pointless.

Back to the real discussion, I agree with what most people say. e6600, DDR2-800 at max, since your only doing minor OC'ing.

No need for watercooling, especially since you don't seem to have much experience with it and it's a pain in the arse for a beginner. Get a decent HSF, like the Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro. One of the best HSF for the money, and perfect for minor OC'ing. No need for a huge Scythe HSF, even though those are nice.
September 25, 2006 7:28:11 PM

Quote:
Heh, okay. But on paper the SATAII can transer twice more than SATA disks... Though I know the RPM, and all the other, is the same, and I know the biggest difference is the RPM. I ment SATAII, for getting alittle more speed, for the price is almost the same. Thats what I ment.


Wanna borrow a shovel?

Yes thank you,

SO I CAN SMASH YOUR FUCKIN HEAD WITH IT.

GEEZ, you are some MORONS in here!!! Just because i don't even have 100000000000 post recorded, and not spending all day long, at this crappy forum, you don't have to downplay me! And just because I write that a SATAII HDD is faster than SATA, you don't have to throw mud at me! You stupid assholes! SATAII is in fact faster, BUT I NEVER SAID THAT IT WOULD MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE.
September 25, 2006 7:33:29 PM

Nice.

If someone posts asking for advice and someone gives bad advice, it's usually a good idea to draw attention to that fact so that it's clear that it is bad advice.

Oh, and if you cared to check, I have something around about 1600 posts - which according to my stats is about 9 per day. Not exactly spending 'all day long at this crappy forum', more like...errr, perhaps a half hour?
September 25, 2006 7:36:28 PM

Quote:
Nice.

If someone posts asking for advice and someone gives bad advice, it's usually a good idea to draw attention to that fact so that it's clear that it is bad advice.

Oh, and if you cared to check, I have something around about 1600 posts - which according to my stats is about 9 per day. Not exactly spending 'all day long at this crappy forum', more like...errr, perhaps a half hour?


I can see that it's a good idea to draw attention to my "bad" advice. But you could do that IN A NICE AND RESPECTFUL WAY PLEASE.
September 25, 2006 8:06:57 PM

Quote:
Good rig.. I think you are a gamer, am I right so far? If so, no components need change, expect the HDD. Try put a SATAII in, for even more speed 8) .


Guess again. Maybe go do a little research before posting such BS.

Can you express yourself alittle better?

Simply putting in an a SATAII drive does not mean it will outpeform a Raptor. Go look here.

Random access time: Sata150 Raptor 150GB: 8ms, Sata300 WD500GB, 16MB cache: 13ms

Max read t'fer rate: Raptor: 86MBps Sata300: 72MBps

Just go down the benchmark list and note how the Raptor compares to the Sata300...
September 25, 2006 8:11:06 PM

Yes, I got it now. Of course RPM is a more important factor than Mbs, but I just saw the 10,000 RPM, which I overlooked before. Sorry for the coincidence, keep the HDD!
September 25, 2006 8:16:15 PM

Quote:
Yes, I got it now. Of course RPM is a more important factor than Mbs, but I just saw the 10,000 RPM, which I overlooked before. Sorry for the coincidence, keep the HDD!


Like one poster said, SATA150 is not saturated (even by the Raptor 150) so until HD performance increases significantly, SATA300 is just unused bandwidth. So it's not just the 10K rpm of the Raptor that's killing your argument. Let's just hope that HD performance grows to where the SATA300 bandwidth capability is stressed. There is hope - just look at the performance improvements made for 7200 rpm drives over the last year.
September 25, 2006 8:16:22 PM

Quote:
Good rig.. I think you are a gamer, am I right so far? If so, no components need change, expect the HDD. Try put a SATAII in, for even more speed 8) .

I dont trust water cooling, water doesn't belong in a computer, in my opinion. If you install it incorrectly it will mean the end of your new rig.


Yes, i consider myself a gamer ;)  I'm buying a new computer to play The Guild 2, it worths 2500$.

And thanks for all the clever advises, guess i'll pick the 800 ddr n 6600 aswell.
September 25, 2006 8:43:09 PM

although sataII is faster in some synthetic tests that show burst speed. although you'd be hard to notice that in the 'real' world :) 
September 25, 2006 8:51:12 PM

I see.. Raptor is good, I get it now! :lol: 
September 25, 2006 8:52:04 PM

Quote:
although sataII is faster in some synthetic tests that show burst speed. although you'd be hard to notice that in the 'real' world :) 


Yea, that's why I mentioned the 16MB cache SataII - give it the best shot and all that.
September 25, 2006 9:29:52 PM

I'm surprised nobody mentioned RAID 0 - for the $229 the Raptor 150 costs at Newegg you could get a couple Seagate 7200.10 320 gig drives and load yer bloatware & games in record speed 8)
September 25, 2006 9:37:01 PM

I'm not saying anything... I have learned my lesson. :lol: 
September 25, 2006 9:39:17 PM

Quote:
I'm surprised nobody mentioned RAID 0 - for the $229 the Raptor 150 costs at Newegg you could get a couple Seagate 7200.10 320 gig drives and load yer bloatware & games in record speed


Not really worth it, IMO - if you're thinking rationally then you'll choose size over speed for hard disks any day, and on that basis I'd say this guy has likely tossed up whether or not he needs the space (not everyone uses BitTorrent!) and decided that the speed boost would be nice. If he hadn't thought about RAID0, I'd advise him to go with the Raptor instead - more reliable. Of course if I'm dishing out advice about hard disks, I'd say get one of those Seagates (or a smaller model) and save some cash.
September 25, 2006 10:48:55 PM

Quote:
Not really worth it, IMO - if you're thinking rationally then you'll choose size over speed for hard disks any day, and on that basis I'd say this guy has likely tossed up whether or not he needs the space (not everyone uses BitTorrent!) and decided that the speed boost would be nice. If he hadn't thought about RAID0, I'd advise him to go with the Raptor instead - more reliable.


?? Did you mean to say choose speed over size? :)  IMHO :wink: , the subjective appearance of speed (how quickly XP boots, games load, etc) is just as important as read/write latency, and even tho the 10K rpm Raptor has better benchies compared to a single 7200 rpm Seagate, a striped pair of the latter should beat a single Raptor's I/O. Unless you have some game or software with a whole bunch of tiny files scattered all over your drive (time to defrag?), I' say raw I/O is just as important as access time. Both drives have NCQ and a 16 meg buffer.

So for $229 you can get a fast 150 gig drive, or for $189.98 you can get an even faster 640 gig 'drive'. I know which is the "rational" choice for me :) 

I see on Newegg that the Raptor's MTBF is 1.2M hours - don't have any data on the Seagate but both have a 5 year manufacturer's warranty. I've used RAID0 in 5 sytems now, the oldest dating back to 2001, with no failures, so my guess is that if a drive does fail, it'll probably be time to upgrade the system anyway :lol: 
September 25, 2006 11:22:48 PM

Okay, if you are aware that I have established in my mind the following things I can explain my rationale.

1) A Raptor is faster than a 320gb Seagate
2) A Raptor isn't as fast as two 320gb Seagates
3) A Raptor is more expensive than two 320gb Seagates
4) A Raptor doesn't have the storage capacity of two 320gb Seagates

Now, onto my reasoning.

If this guy wanted loads of storage space, he would have specified, let's just say for the sake of ease, a 320gb Seagate.

If he wanted speed and storage space, he would perhaps have overlooked a RAID0 and gone for a 320gb Seagate and a Raptor.

So he's decided he wants speed, but doesn't need a huge amount of storage space, so he goes for just the Raptor.

However, even though the two 320gb Seagates are much, much larger and faster, and cheaper, they aren't the option he should go for - I'm not mentioning the increased risk of failure just for some extra space that he apparently doesn't need.

Instead, he should go for hidden option 3 - just a plain 'ol small 'regular' drive, perhaps a 200gb SATA (or, as some would argue, SATAII).

It may not bench as fast as a Raptor or a RAID0 setup or have the storage capacity of the drive array, but will do just what he wants with less power consumed (nominally, in the grand scheme of things) and is much, much cheaper.
September 26, 2006 1:54:18 AM

Quote:
I'm surprised nobody mentioned RAID 0 - for the $229 the Raptor 150 costs at Newegg you could get a couple Seagate 7200.10 320 gig drives and load yer bloatware & games in record speed 8)


Then you'd need two Raptor 150s to RAID0 them too. We're comparing interface bandwidth in this discussion, not MBps per buck.
September 26, 2006 2:23:55 AM

Quote:
Then you'd need two Raptor 150s to RAID0 them too.


No argument there. Don't recall if anybody mentioned a bottom line on costs.

Actually my post was more in response to gOdman recommending the Raptor and the Seagate - one for performance and the other for storage.

I just set up a system with a couple of the Seagates - very fast and very quiet, even with the sides off the case.
September 26, 2006 2:29:42 AM

Quote:
Actually my post was more in response to gOdman recommending the Raptor and the Seagate - one for performance and the other for storage.


For people that need loads of room, I like the idea of RAID10. It's very fast, very redundant and unfortunately, pretty expensive.

Quote:
I just set up a system with a couple of the Seagates - very fast and very quiet, even with the sides off the case.


Yes, I just got a Seagate perp and it's so quiet I'm suspicious...
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