Getting new pc, conroe or amd......??

[Swany420]

I am buying a new pc soon and i am looking at cpus first, i just cant decide amd or conroe.... they each have there own positives and negatives....

Amds positives are that they have more mobos that support nforce 590 chipset but the negative is that conroe is just so much better, performance wise. were talkin for the e6600 4 mb l2 cache compared to amds am2 x2 4000 that has 1 mb l2 cache.... the 4000 is the only cpu from amd besides the most expensive one that is am2 and has 1 mb l2 cache,,,

Conroe on the other hand has greatttt performance and is a overclockers dreamm but only has 1 mobo i saw that was a nforce 570 chipset, have not yet seen 590s for the conroe but i dont understand why when intel and nvidiaa are sorta a team now.....

anyone have any suggestions on the cpu and mobo i should get........ i am looking forward to run a 512mb video card and hopfully going for sli with 2 512mb cards in there..........

but as i said conroe mobos have very few choices to pick from .....

price range for whole pc is 1000-1500

 

[mapex]

what size monitor and resolution are you going to be running? if you absolutely must have two gpus check out the nvidia 7950gx2. Check out this review THG did on video cards. http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/09/26/the_best_gaming_video_cards_for_the_money/page4.html
But if you're not running anything too extreme, there's really not a need for sli or crossfire

 

[Heyyou27]

1) The E6600 is generally as fast or faster than the FX62.
2) AMD recently bought ATI, causing Intel to try and distance themselves from ATI, and Nvidia getting closer to Intel.
3) When using SLI or Crossfire, the memory is not added together the way Nvidia pretends it is. (2*512MB does not equal 1GB of video memory)
4) If you have a large monitor (1600x1200 or greater) an SLI or Crossfire setup may be a good idea depending on the games you're running.

 

[SciPunk]

So the question isn't about which CPU you want, it's what combination of CPU and motherboard you want.

Good point.

One choice (if it is a choice) is to wait a while for a better batch of motherboards to come on the scene, and for the price of the C2D to drop a bit too. Then there would be no question, right?

 

[Swany420]

well to add on to my question..... it sounds like conroe will be great but the only thing is i heard a lot of things about windows vista........buggy as hell and is just not a good idea to buy within the first couplke months its out.,....just until they get all the bugs out.....but i am a bigggg gamer and plan to overclock a lottt and i am trying to go for a decent 20 inch wide screen monitor.......

sli sounds good and all but as i said conroe does have the performaance but doesnt have the options that amd looks to have........i really want conroe but i am a big gamer and having just 1 gpu might be good enough but i dought it with all the new games coming out........

thoughhhh i was thinkin of gettin the new dual gpu that nvidia just came out with.......do you still have to have a mobo that runs sli even if both gpus fit into one pci 16 slot????? because if not then i am already picking conroe....but i am looking for something with 512 mb or higher for gpus.....

what do anyone of you suggest.........buy an expensive gpu setup now or should i wait till dx10 comes out....... becvause like i said i am not using vista until a couple months after its released.........

and also ....... i was looking at watercooling cases that have the water cooling system already built in ,,,,,, like th new thermaltakes? any input on water cooling...........i am looking to over clock a lot

 

[wolfman140]

Some basic thoughts, my two cents (and in not a particular order):

1) Go Conroe, there's no sense in spending money to go BACKWARD in technology back down to Athlonx2. And besides, Conroe chips are cheap as hell if you ask me. (only $230 for a E6400 c'mon now)

2) Or if you want to wait till DX10 and Vista, wait to see what happens with the new quad-conroe's coming out and look for price drops and/or maybe get one of those

3) Corsair Cool Water kit got a lot of good reviews, its fairly cheap, and easy to setup (Zipzoomfly has it for $160)

4) I wouldn't be concerned about Vista/DX10 at this point. There's so many of us that are looking down upon Vista as there is no point to move to it really.

5) I thought I read reviews saying the new Nvidia chips weren't that good at overclocking? If you want to overclock go read some reviews on the top Asus board available (I've heard many good things)

All in all I don't see the point in going back to Athlon 90nm technology, and a cheapy board if you're gonna wanna OC big. Go for a Conroe, and spend the extra $ on damn good motherboard.

 

[mapex]

the 7950gx2 doesn't require sli as it only uses one slot. Personally I'd go conroe, find a good board with all the features that you want, you could even pick one with crossfire compatibility so you could run a crossfire setup later on. If you're worried about dx10 and vista, I'd get a midgrade card such as the 1900xt for now and then upgrade once some good dx10 cards come out. Any board that supports conroe will also support the core 2 quadro so it's got upgrade capabilities throughout the end of 2007 into 2008.

 

[Swany420]

thats great advice!!

the only thing is i have been reseaeching and reaserching for the past year because i have been saving my money and this is my first build

what i heard about crossfire wasnt good.....not anyware as close as sli nvida

but if i do get conroe.... i heard people had problems with installing it as the bios werent up to date for conroe....... so they had to put their old cpu back in and install the bios then ttake it out again and install the conroe.....is this truee??

also is heat an isue with conroe??

 

[WizardOZ]

My suggestion is that you wait another 2 or 3 months before buying anything. I am not going to make any specific recommendations, just raise some pertanent issues.

It is clear that you have an existing system, which means that you can keep doing your thing for now.

Unless you are willing to deal with the unexpected surprises and glitches inherent in any brand new technology, I wouldn't recommend buying anything right now. New, high performance technology is called "cutting" or "bleeding" edge for a very good reason. Your posts do NOT indicate that you have either the experience or enthusiasm level required to operate on this edge. It can be EXTREMELY frustrating to be in that zone if all you want to do is play your favourite game(s) and use the system for any other routine things you do.

I am struck by the number of posters here that are focused on the hardware side, to the point they forget the object of the exercise is to run applications (games, spreadsheets, word-processors, etc.) in a stable, productive environment. In the context of your proposed application, gaming, this means a system that will provide a high enough frame rate to play the game, WITHOUT crashing on a regular and frequent basis, leading you to spend more time trouble-shooting the hardware than playing your game(s). Are you sure that is where you want to be? Buying Model 1 Mark 0 hardware guarantees that is where you will end up.

The reason that there is practically no support for SLI or Crossfire systems on the Intel side is because, until Conroe, AMD owned the performance equation in terms of gaming and almost all other applications. The only place where Intel performance consistently beat AMD was in audio/video creation and processing. This was because Intel deliberately designed the P4 to excel in this area. AMD chose to design their chips to be generalists. Funny how AMD tended to blow Intel away, at lower clock speeds too.

Now that Conroe CPUs significantly outperform current AMD product in all spheres, one can expect that support for features like SLi and Crossfire will show up fairly soon on the Intel side. But, you would be wise to step back a bit and examine what else you may wish to use your system for, other than gaming.

For example, if you are in a position to do a lot of video capture onto your system, you should be taking a serious look at ATI's All-In-Wonder video cards. They do a great job of video capture from a number of input sources, without the need for additional hardware. But if this is an issue, and you need to get the ATI card, you will need a system that supports Crossfire if you want to do the multi card/multi monitor thing. On that subject, you may want to wade into that pond slowly, both from a hardware availability and cost point of view.

I suggest that you consider getting the best MB with the most features with one video card and monitor first. Familiarize yourself with the features and quirks of the system, then move on to more sophisticated and expensive configurations. It is my understanding that the Apple 30" widescreen monitor is something extraordinary, both in terms of quality and performance (and price). This is the monitor that is included in the Tom's Hardware Ultimate Gaming PC ($10 K value). You may want check out the specs / components in this system to get some idea of what is available. That's assuming you have a minimum of $10 K to spend.

Many of the hardware-oriented posters here are into overclocking and other "tweaks" to boost performance by relatively small margins. You don't strike me as someone who is either interested in such things, or has the technical knowledge to indulge in this (I could be wrong - if so I appologize). Overclocking not only requires significantly more elaoborate (read expensive) cooling systems, it VOIDS the warranty on the chips that are overclocked. This is a point to consider. There is a most interesting and useful post in the sound card forum re the impact of stand-alone sound cards vs on-board sound in Tom's Forums - you may want to check it out.

On the issue of Windows Vista vs XP, that is irrelevant. Vista is still in (relatively early) Beta testing, and therfore won't be out for at least 6 months. More like a year, so don't worry about it. Furthermore this is just one more reason to wait a few more months before buying a new system.

A web site that you should seriously consider visiting is www.annoyances.org This a great site for all kinds of info and solutions to "quirks", "undocumented features" and short-comings of MS operating systems and software.

Hope this helps.

 

[wolfman140]

Yes, when Conroe first came out and so did the motherboards...some of them (one of them being the best one from Asus I keep forgetting the model its like PW-5 Deluxe I think) didn't ship with a Conroe-supporting BIOS. I would imagine that any of them shipping these days WOULD have the newer BIOS chip in them that supported Conroe out of the box. But you'd have to double check.

I wouldn't 100% agree with Oz. Yes, I'm sure there are plenty of cases when something was DOA and not working correctly with the new hardware, but then again there's plenty of cases with hardware thats been around for a few years so I think its inaccurate to say that most new hardware isn't working perfectly. I, personally, had no problems whatsoever building my rig. It went 100% perfect at stock settings. Trying to OC was another issue (I couldn't do it till Gigabyte came out with a new BIOS a week or so later). But besides that, everything worked 100% with eachother, no hiccups, no problems.

I also am against the idea of "don't build your own computer with the newest technology because you're a noob". My friend, the only way to learn things is to do it yourself and get right in there. I've never had a problem building any of my computers, even the first one. You just have to make sure you select all the right components and read reviews on them. As long as you do that right, you should be golden. Any idiot can put a computer together its quite simple. There's always a chance something isn't going to work right, but thats how you learn. For example, I just put a new HD in my gf's PC and was trying to install Windows. It kept freezing halfway thru the installation...So after a couple tries I checked the net and voila there was an answer. I had OC'ed the PC...and apparently Windows gets touchy when you try to install it with the PC overclocked (so I reset the BIOS). So there's something new I learned. So I guess a good rule of thumb is to have access to another computer/internet while building so you can look up problems and solutions.
But that's the worst case scenario...Everything SHOULD work fine anyway...But if it doesn't the net is a greay resource to solve problems (by other people's experience).

Its really simple here's a basic rule of thumb:
1) Get a Conroe

2) Get a motherboard that has good reviews, is good at OC'ing, and people haven't had to install new BIOS chips in. And make sure nobody's had any problems with the kind of RAM you get.

3) Get a respectable, high quality power supply unit.

4) Get 2 gigs of quality RAM that has nothing but good reviews

After that its all gravy...HD models, videocards, case, etc. They can vary depending on what you want. (I wouldn't recommend getting an EVGA or XFX card because they OC for you and many people have had problems with them) Ok I hope you liked that novel. The only way to learn is to do my friend, and if you have problems, solve them. It really isn't hard, really. Just do your research on your parts, and you're set.

 

[WizardOZ]

Wolfman had some valid points, but it strikes me that he? is missing some of the points I made.

I didn't say that one shouldn't build a system from current components. What I did say is that first-generation components tend to exhibit a high rate of stability problems, which is NOT the same as DOA. I also pointed out that this may not be a situation the OP (based on the content and context of the post) wanted to be in and that his/her technical qualifictions may not be suficient to deal with such problems. A carefull perusal of my first post will also show that I acknowledged that my assesment of the OP's skill level could have been mistaken, and that I did in fact appologise for any unintended insult. I also pointed out that waiting a few more months would give the OP a greater selection of components to choose from, with some of the early implementation issues addressed.

On to the heart of the issue,

Wolfman, your recomendations are fine as far as they go, but I am concerned about the aggressiveness of some of them in the context of the OP's post. Based on the questions asked and the apparent tone of the poster, I would assume a limited level of experience and expertise. As I noted in my first post, the OP gives the impression that s/he has limited experience and expertise. This is my interpretation/opinion. As stated before, I could be wrong, and I do appologize if I am.

The point is that, when giving advice to an individual who is, apparently, of limited experience/skill, a conservative approach is more useful, in my experience. At the very least, one should make the risks and caveats of the advice being given clear. In medical circumstances, this is called "informed consent". I think that similar constraints apply in this case. After all, a significant amount of money, time and effort is involved here, not to mention potential headaches and serious aggravation afterwards.

You may wish to keep these points in mind in future. I do this from experience - both personal and professional.

 

[AmdMELTDOWN]

let me gather my data...


get a conroe! :lol:

 

[wolfman140]

Oz,
I respect your concern, points of view, and politeness. Something that is often missing in these forums most of the time.

Well, I just guess I disagree with the idea that first generation products have issues. Well...I don't mean FIRST generation...For instance, the FIRST Conroe's that were available were different models and revisions, etc., and were OEM (which is what I actually have) And the FIRST boards that shipped (not all, just the Asus one) had outdated BIOS chips. Since then, revisions have been made, retail versions are available, and Asus has addressed the outdated BIOS chip issue. So how long is the time frame before something becomes "second generation"? I would think that these revisions that have been already made, will classify them as "second generation" because any tweaks or fixes have been made already (for the most part). I guess I just believe that you're just as likely to get issues from older hardware, as from newly developed hardware in the stage that Conroe is in.

Like I mentioned, the hardest part about building a computer is doing your research ahead of time. If you do it correctly and make sure there's no compatibility issues, you really, really should be good to go. Putting it together is easy. So while he does the research, he should learn a lot about all of these issues. Which in turn makes him more and more experienced. He has to do the same research even for older components.

I suppose you're REAL main point is that, given the state of the OP's apparent inexperience, you feel that SHOULD he encounter a problem he might be overwhelmed. But then again I say, he's just as likely to encounter these problems with older hardware just as much as new. So he's going to learn it one way or another. I really believe the only way to learn is by doing. He should keep his other computer around and hooked up so that if something goes wrong or needs to do additional research, its there to use. I myself would've had a problem building my comps if I didn't have another computer to research issues on the net while I did. So...I think that if he can read...and search the net well to find his answers, he shouldn't have too much trouble going ahead.
Bottom line, I still stand by my opinion of getting a Conroe and a great mobo with it. Even if there are more more issues in general and it may have problems (which i'm doubting anyway), its still worth it to move AHEAD with newer technology, rather than go backwards.

Respectfully,
Wolfman

 

[WizardOZ]

Wolfman

You may be surprised to find that I basically agree with you re all your points. I was trying to do the "senatorial" thing - you know the "sober second thought" stage of planning. Besides which, if someone has already waited a year to assemble the components for a new system, what is 1 or 2 months more? Especially when you know that 1) the Christams sale will be here soon and 2) that much more product selection and development wil be there. This is a pure win for the OP. Plus more time for research and reviews to show up.

Based on my experience, most hardware that is at the 1.1(or +) stage of development should be stable enough even for new users to work with and have few problems. This isn't always the case, and for software, one of the biggest companies out there takes at least 3 attempts before they sort of get it right. And even then, there are running sores that never seem to get fixed.

Another reason that I was recommending a more careful approach is that so damned many of the "newby" posts display such levles of rudeness, impatience and bloody-mindedness that I can't help wondering just how long it has been since these individuals finnished potty training. Tragically, I have to wonder the same thing about a number of the "experienced" posters here You know exactly what I mean..

Stay cool.