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I also need help with Duplex on my IP4000 (Different Probl..

Last response: in Computer Peripherals
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September 23, 2005 8:50:50 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

It seems that if I print the same document with exact same settings the
print quality of black is paler when using Duplex.

It seems that it is not using the same black ink as the Non Duplex printing.

Anyone know if this is the case, or should I try a reinstall of the
software?


Thanks

Mike

More about : duplex ip4000 probl

Anonymous
September 23, 2005 9:01:04 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

FIRST YOU SHOULD USE ONLY CANON OEM PIGMENTED INK AND SELECT PLAIN
PAPER. THEN YOU SHOULD USE A HIGH QUALITY PAPER LIKE HAMMERMILL PREMIUM
INKJET PAPER THAT YOU CAN GET AT STAPLES OR OFFICE DEPOT. YOU SHOULD
NOT EXPERIENCE THAT.

BUT IF YOU DO NOT USE CANON OEM INK THEN YOU CANNOT EXPECT THE PRINTER
TO PERFORM AS CANON MFG IT.

Mikey wrote:

>It seems that if I print the same document with exact same settings the
>print quality of black is paler when using Duplex.
>
>It seems that it is not using the same black ink as the Non Duplex printing.
>
>Anyone know if this is the case, or should I try a reinstall of the
>software?
>
>
>Thanks
>
>Mike
>
>
>
>
September 23, 2005 9:07:02 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I am using CANON ink and top quality paper.

I am also only talking about a standard word document.

I have printed out two versions of the same document. The only difference
is that one is set to DUPLEX and the other single sheet.

It defiantly looks like each document uses the different Black ink.


Mike
Related resources
September 23, 2005 9:44:50 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

> Even Cannon support could not help me, all they said was to reinstall
> drivers as wrong in may be going to printer.
>
> Fat lot of good they are, although I may wind them up this week about it.

Well, keep in mind that level 1 support is pretty much limited to
things you can read for your self in the owners manual. That's their
purpose in life. In all fairness most problems can be solved with
level 1, but if you have an issue they can't resolve it can get
escalated to level 2 which from what i've read in here requires waiting
around for them to phone you back.

Regarding your issue... I would ask that you repeat your experiment of
duplexing making sure you are printing a black text document... i.e. no
color. I've observed on my ip3000 when doing normal documents with a
tad of color that it would mix cyan, magenta, and yellow to make black
when I had a document with only text but some in different colors. I
noticed this only because I was running low on magenta but assumed
since my black (bci-3e) was untouched that I would have more than
enough to finish the job. And well, everything was printed in various
shades of cyan.

Is this your issue? I have no clue. I've only observed a difference
my self when printing mixed color and black text. But it may be
possible your printing in the bci-6 black for some reason.

Also, don't discount the paper you're using. You might want to try the
same thing with some inkjet bond paper. The results might be better.
Anonymous
September 23, 2005 11:42:58 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

measekite wrote:
> FIRST YOU SHOULD USE ONLY CANON OEM PIGMENTED INK AND SELECT PLAIN
> PAPER. THEN YOU SHOULD USE A HIGH QUALITY PAPER LIKE HAMMERMILL
> PREMIUM INKJET PAPER THAT YOU CAN GET AT STAPLES OR OFFICE DEPOT. YOU
> SHOULD NOT EXPERIENCE THAT.
>
> BUT IF YOU DO NOT USE CANON OEM INK THEN YOU CANNOT EXPECT THE PRINTER
> TO PERFORM AS CANON MFG IT.
>

BULLSHIT!!!

It's common knowledge that Canon in duplex mode prints with worse quality
than in normal single mode. Since in duplex is also bloddy slow, it's far
quicker if you print in software duplex and turn paper by yourself.
September 23, 2005 11:42:59 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I have tried that, but if duplex is select (whether auto or manual) the
quality is lower.

Any more help appreciated.


Mike
Anonymous
September 23, 2005 11:49:35 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Mikey wrote:

> I am using CANON ink and top quality paper.
>
> I am also only talking about a standard word document.
>
> I have printed out two versions of the same document. The only difference
> is that one is set to DUPLEX and the other single sheet.
>
> It defiantly looks like each document uses the different Black ink.
>
>
> Mike
>

Yes, you are absolutely correct. This has nothing to to do with
what kind of ink you are using - OEM or compatible - as Measekite
would like you to believe.

I get the same results as you using duplex with my iP5000 - which I
hate duplexing with, by the way. It's agonizingly slow. When printing a
document using duplex, your printer doesn't use the large pigmented
black cartridge. It mixes the three CYM colors to imitate black, thus
you get that dark grey text, so to speak, that you mentioned. I checked
the duplex printout with a strong magnifier and could plainly see CYM
dot splatters of red and blue (yellow is harder to see). This mixing
colors to make "black" ink is intentional. My best guess is that Canon
is doing this is because they know they would get smudging of the ink
since pigmented black ink takes a lot longer to dry than the dye ink colors.

I never ever use the duplex feature. I consider it inferior, now more
than ever since it mixes colors to make black.

I duplex manually. When I print one side of a page I often have to blow
on it before showing it back in for the flip side. Smudge risk.

So either accept the lighter shade of pale or flip and get genuine
black. I prefer the latter.

-Taliesyn
Anonymous
September 24, 2005 3:37:59 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Mikey wrote:

>I have tried that, but if duplex is select (whether auto or manual) the
>quality is lower.
>
>Any more help appreciated.
>
>
>Mike
>
>
THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN WITH MY PRINTER.

>
>
>
September 24, 2005 4:19:34 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Thanks to all for your posts.

Even Cannon support could not help me, all they said was to reinstall
drivers as wrong in may be going to printer.

Fat lot of good they are, although I may wind them up this week about it.

Cheers again

Mikey
Anonymous
September 24, 2005 4:19:35 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Mikey wrote:

> Thanks to all for your posts.
>
> Even Cannon support could not help me, all they said was to reinstall
> drivers as wrong in may be going to printer.
>

Yes, "Reinstall The Drivers". In other words, they haven't a clue what
you're talking about.

No, like you, I get two shades of black. One pure black pigmented when
duplexed manually, the other an off black dye mixture when using auto
duplex. I used very high quality paper, which obviously makes no difference.

If I have a 100 sheets both sides to print I simply print the odd sides,
and then the even sides. I can live very well without auto duplexing. I
got tired of having a cup of coffee while waiting for each each sheet to
come out of the printer.

-Taliesyn
Anonymous
September 24, 2005 5:31:01 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article <rl0Ze.2520$G64.2017@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com>,
inkystinky@oem.com says...
>
>
> Mikey wrote:
>
> >I have tried that, but if duplex is select (whether auto or manual) the
> >quality is lower.
> >
> >Any more help appreciated.
> >
> >
> >Mike
> >
> >
> THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN WITH MY PRINTER.
>
> >
> >
Familiarity with your previous posts leads me to think you would not
know the difference.
September 24, 2005 6:14:28 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

measekite <inkystinky@oem.com> wrote:
>Mikey wrote:
>
>>I have tried that, but if duplex is select (whether auto or manual) the
>>quality is lower.
>>
>>Any more help appreciated.
>>
>>
>>Mike
>>
>>
>THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN WITH MY PRINTER.

Measekite you are either in need of a better quality pince-nez or you are lying
again or you have a special Canon 'employee of the year' version of the ip4000.

The difference in quality between duplex and simplex printing is clear to the
naked eye, both black text and colour output is slightly less intense when
automatic duplexing. I have not played around with the settings to see if this
can be improved but this performance is out-of-the-box for the ip4000.

Your totally unresearched and biased postings about this printer do Canon and
this newsgroup a serious disservice. I believe this is a good printer for the
price but it is less than perfect and for some people it simply does not meet
their needs, it's high time you understood that.
Tony
September 24, 2005 6:55:18 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

measekite <inkystinky@oem.com> wrote:
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

>>It's common knowledge that Canon in duplex mode prints with worse quality
>>than in normal single mode.
>>
>
>MINE DOES NOT

Wrong

The difference in quality between duplex and simplex printing is clear to the
naked eye, both black text and colour output is slightly less intense when
automatic duplexing. This is out-of-the-box performance for the ip4000.


>>Since in duplex is also bloddy slow,
>>
>
>IT IS THE SAME SPEED. YOU CANNOT COUNT THE FLIP TIME.

Wrong again

It is 5-10%slower ignoring the turnaround time using standard settings.

Tony
September 24, 2005 7:05:23 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

> ...millions of users choose canon because they want to print 5 to 20 page
> documents on both sides of the paper by pressing the print button and
> comming back a few minutes later with a properly colated stack of output

I know i'll get harrassed for this.

Manual duplexing results in properly colated stack of output. This
might not be true on some printers who's output is copy side down but
on cheap inkjets who leave copy side up i.e. no U turn after an image
is printed manual duplexing = colated.

*It was their target goal to sell 15 million units by the end of 2004
I don't know if they met their goal but there are at least millions of
canon users of which only a fraction have printers that duplex as in
2004 you could buy low cost non-duplexing models. And of those only a
fraction actually duplex. And Canon's focus has been mostly single
fuction photo printers which duplexing isn't really nessicary manual or
otherwise.

It is possible that canon may have sold millions of pixmas but what
evidence do you have that the majority of canon users use duplex
printing. None at all. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice enough
feature. In fact I know many ip3000s were purchaced by businesses by
the bucket load when they learned that a sub $100 inkjet with a very
low cost per page for black could duplex, even if it's a slow duplex.
But I don't see this as being millions. I see this as being handy for
SOHO or a branch office. Home users I don't see bothering even though
canon is trying to push double sided photo paper.

But as others have pointed out, quality might suffer as a result of
auto duplexing, and manual duplexing is faster esp since the printer
offers two trays. And let's face it, inkjets require dry time and are
not the best devices to auto duplex, but manual duplexing at the very
least allows for maxium dry time for each sheet.

*http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/worldbiz/archives/2004/...

So anyone who makes it a point not to auto duplex isn't stupid. They
are using their own skills at observation to establish that it's not a
time effective means to print on a Pixma, and others observe there is a
loss in quality. It's up to the user whether they want to use auto
duplex and fetch a cup of coffee or manualy duplex. Given the yield on
the pixma is limited to 500p for the bci-3e I would suspect that
massive amounts of duplexing isn't a viable option anyway so it's
rather a moot point.
September 24, 2005 7:17:40 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

> Do I belong in this newsgroup?
> I don't know but at least I do no deliberate harm.

You talk about printers. On that note alone you belong in this group.

You're "in da buzzniss"(sic) according to our resident spammer. This
makes you more qualified than many other people including my self.
Anonymous
September 24, 2005 9:32:26 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Taliesyn wrote:
> Mikey wrote:
>
>> Thanks to all for your posts.
>>
>> Even Cannon support could not help me, all they said was to reinstall
>> drivers as wrong in may be going to printer.
>>
>
> Yes, "Reinstall The Drivers". In other words, they haven't a clue what
> you're talking about.
>
> No, like you, I get two shades of black. One pure black pigmented when
> duplexed manually, the other an off black dye mixture when using auto
> duplex. I used very high quality paper, which obviously makes no
> difference.
>
> If I have a 100 sheets both sides to print I simply print the odd sides,
> and then the even sides. I can live very well without auto duplexing. I
> got tired of having a cup of coffee while waiting for each each sheet to
> come out of the printer.
>
> -Taliesyn

I was annoyed by the same light printing for duplex. It took a lot of
searching, but somewhere on the canon site it says that it automatically
lightens the pigmented ink when doing duplex to avoid to avoid
transferring ink to the inside of the printer (pigmented ink will tend
to smear). If you use the highest quality mode it will add some
dye ink to try and fill in the spaces (as noted above, but there still
does seem to be some pigmented). In standard mode it seems to be just
pigmented, but light (but a reasonable speed).

So this is an annoying feature, it is a feature though, so you are not
going to 'fix' it.
Anonymous
September 24, 2005 9:32:27 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Yupei wrote:

> Taliesyn wrote:
>
>> Mikey wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks to all for your posts.
>>>
>>> Even Cannon support could not help me, all they said was to reinstall
>>> drivers as wrong in may be going to printer.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, "Reinstall The Drivers". In other words, they haven't a clue what
>> you're talking about.
>>
>> No, like you, I get two shades of black. One pure black pigmented when
>> duplexed manually, the other an off black dye mixture when using auto
>> duplex. I used very high quality paper, which obviously makes no
>> difference.
>>
>> If I have a 100 sheets both sides to print I simply print the odd sides,
>> and then the even sides. I can live very well without auto duplexing. I
>> got tired of having a cup of coffee while waiting for each each sheet
>> to come out of the printer.
>>
>> -Taliesyn
>
>
> I was annoyed by the same light printing for duplex. It took a lot of
> searching, but somewhere on the canon site it says that it automatically
> lightens the pigmented ink when doing duplex to avoid to avoid
> transferring ink to the inside of the printer (pigmented ink will tend
> to smear). If you use the highest quality mode it will add some
> dye ink to try and fill in the spaces (as noted above, but there still
> does seem to be some pigmented). In standard mode it seems to be just
> pigmented, but light (but a reasonable speed).
>

Thanks for the info. However, in standard mode, which I used for my
tests, I found blue and red dots.

-Taliesyn

> So this is an annoying feature, it is a feature though, so you are not
> going to 'fix' it.

Not an absolutely necessary feature anyway.
Anonymous
September 25, 2005 12:23:52 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Tony wrote:

>measekite <inkystinky@oem.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Mikey wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>I have tried that, but if duplex is select (whether auto or manual) the
>>>quality is lower.
>>>
>>>Any more help appreciated.
>>>
>>>
>>>Mike
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN WITH MY PRINTER.
>>
>>
>
>Measekite you are either in need of a better quality pince-nez or you are lying
>again or you have a special Canon 'employee of the year' version of the ip4000.
>
>

TONY DA TIGER IS IN DA BUSINESS. YOU CANNOT BELIEVE ANYTHING HE SAYS.

>The difference in quality between duplex and simplex printing is clear to the
>naked eye, both black text and colour output is slightly less intense when
>automatic duplexing. I have not played around with the settings to see if this
>can be improved but this performance is out-of-the-box for the ip4000.
>
>Your totally unresearched and biased postings about this printer do Canon and
>this newsgroup a serious disservice.
>

BEING IN DA BUSINESS AND GIVING PARTICIPANTS IN THIS NG ADVICE SO YOU
CAN MAKE MORE MONEY IS A SERIOUS DISSERVICE.

>I believe this is a good printer for the
>price but it is less than perfect and for some people it simply does not meet
>their needs, it's high time you understood that.
>Tony
>
>

I GUESS IT BREAKS DOWN LESS SO YOU DO NOT MAKE AS MUCH MONEY.
Anonymous
September 25, 2005 12:25:05 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

TONY DA TIGER MAKE MONEY FROM MANY OF YOU IDIOTS. HE DOES NOT BELONG IN
THIS NG.

Tony wrote:

>measekite <inkystinky@oem.com> wrote:
>
>
>>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>>It's common knowledge that Canon in duplex mode prints with worse quality
>>>than in normal single mode.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>MINE DOES NOT
>>
>>
>
>Wrong
>
>The difference in quality between duplex and simplex printing is clear to the
>naked eye, both black text and colour output is slightly less intense when
>automatic duplexing. This is out-of-the-box performance for the ip4000.
>
>
>
>
>>>Since in duplex is also bloddy slow,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>IT IS THE SAME SPEED. YOU CANNOT COUNT THE FLIP TIME.
>>
>>
>
>Wrong again
>
>It is 5-10%slower ignoring the turnaround time using standard settings.
>
>Tony
>
>
>
Anonymous
September 25, 2005 12:53:34 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Taliesyn wrote:

> Yupei wrote:
>
>> Taliesyn wrote:
>>
>>> Mikey wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks to all for your posts.
>>>>
>>>> Even Cannon support could not help me, all they said was to
>>>> reinstall drivers as wrong in may be going to printer.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, "Reinstall The Drivers". In other words, they haven't a clue what
>>> you're talking about.
>>>
>>> No, like you, I get two shades of black. One pure black pigmented when
>>> duplexed manually, the other an off black dye mixture when using auto
>>> duplex. I used very high quality paper, which obviously makes no
>>> difference.
>>>
>>> If I have a 100 sheets both sides to print I simply print the odd
>>> sides,
>>> and then the even sides. I can live very well without auto duplexing. I
>>> got tired of having a cup of coffee while waiting for each each
>>> sheet to come out of the printer.
>>>
>>> -Taliesyn
>>
>>
>>
>> I was annoyed by the same light printing for duplex. It took a lot of
>> searching, but somewhere on the canon site it says that it automatically
>> lightens the pigmented ink when doing duplex to avoid to avoid
>> transferring ink to the inside of the printer (pigmented ink will tend
>> to smear). If you use the highest quality mode it will add some
>> dye ink to try and fill in the spaces (as noted above, but there still
>> does seem to be some pigmented). In standard mode it seems to be just
>> pigmented, but light (but a reasonable speed).
>>
>
> Thanks for the info. However, in standard mode, which I used for my
> tests, I found blue and red dots.
>
> -Taliesyn
>
>> So this is an annoying feature, it is a feature though, so you are not
>> going to 'fix' it.
>
>
> An absolutely necessary feature anyway.
>
>
September 25, 2005 1:50:56 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

measekite <inkystinky@oem.com> wrote:
>TONY DA TIGER MAKE MONEY FROM MANY OF YOU IDIOTS. HE DOES NOT BELONG IN
>THIS NG.

Completely wrong, this newsgroup provides me with no money any way you want to
analyse it.
It provides me with information and a sense of achievement on the rare
occasions that I can help someone.
The reasons for that are obvious to several participants with whom I have
conversed by e-mail.

Do I belong in this newsgroup? I don't know but at least I do no deliberate
harm. Other people will be the judge of that, your opinion on that matter is as
redundant as your intellect.
Do you belong here with your foul mouthed invective, constant refusal to admit
it when you are wrong, your deliberate lies, shouting and spitefully childish
changing of other peoples posts? You do deliberate harm and that is the reason
that I answer your posts on rare occasions; an attempt to restore some balance.
You cannot string a sentence together without referring to body parts or bodily
waste....correction....you can't string a sentence together.

Tony
Anonymous
September 25, 2005 2:42:04 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Tony wrote:

>measekite <inkystinky@oem.com> wrote:
>
>
>>TONY DA TIGER MAKE MONEY FROM MANY OF YOU IDIOTS. HE DOES NOT BELONG IN
>>THIS NG.
>>
>>
>
>Completely wrong, this newsgroup provides me with no money any way you want to
>analyse it.
>
>

IT PROVIDES YOU WITH PUBIC RELATIONS.

>It provides me with information and a sense of achievement on the rare
>occasions that I can help someone.
>
>

BULLSHIT..YOU ARE IN DA BUSINESS

>The reasons for that are obvious to several participants with whom I have
>conversed by e-mail.
>
>Do I belong in this newsgroup? I don't know but at least I do no deliberate
>harm. Other people will be the judge of that, your opinion on that matter is as
>redundant as your intellect.
>Do you belong here with your foul mouthed invective, constant refusal to admit
>it when you are wrong, your deliberate lies, shouting and spitefully childish
>changing of other peoples posts? You do deliberate harm and that is the reason
>that I answer your posts on rare occasions; an attempt to restore some balance.
>You cannot string a sentence together without referring to body parts or bodily
>waste....correction....you can't string a sentence together.
>
>Tony
>
>
Anonymous
September 25, 2005 2:44:32 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

zakezuke wrote:

>>...millions of users choose canon because they want to print 5 to 20 page
>>documents on both sides of the paper by pressing the print button and
>>comming back a few minutes later with a properly colated stack of output
>>
>>
>
>I know
>
MATT ZAKOWSKI - HERE COMES ANOTHER THESIS

>i'll get harrassed for this.
>
>Manual duplexing results in properly colated stack of output. This
>might not be true on some printers who's output is copy side down but
>on cheap inkjets who leave copy side up i.e. no U turn after an image
>is printed manual duplexing = colated.
>
>*It was their target goal to sell 15 million units by the end of 2004
>I don't know if they met their goal but there are at least millions of
>canon users of which only a fraction have printers that duplex as in
>2004 you could buy low cost non-duplexing models. And of those only a
>fraction actually duplex. And Canon's focus has been mostly single
>fuction photo printers which duplexing isn't really nessicary manual or
>otherwise.
>
>It is possible that canon may have sold millions of pixmas but what
>evidence do you have that the majority of canon users use duplex
>printing. None at all. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice enough
>feature. In fact I know many ip3000s were purchaced by businesses by
>the bucket load when they learned that a sub $100 inkjet with a very
>low cost per page for black could duplex, even if it's a slow duplex.
>But I don't see this as being millions. I see this as being handy for
>SOHO or a branch office. Home users I don't see bothering even though
>canon is trying to push double sided photo paper.
>
>But as others have pointed out, quality might suffer as a result of
>auto duplexing, and manual duplexing is faster esp since the printer
>offers two trays. And let's face it, inkjets require dry time and are
>not the best devices to auto duplex, but manual duplexing at the very
>least allows for maxium dry time for each sheet.
>
>*http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/worldbiz/archives/2004/...
>
>So anyone who makes it a point not to auto duplex isn't stupid. They
>are using their own skills at observation to establish that it's not a
>time effective means to print on a Pixma, and others observe there is a
>loss in quality. It's up to the user whether they want to use auto
>duplex and fetch a cup of coffee or manualy duplex. Given the yield on
>the pixma is limited to 500p for the bci-3e I would suspect that
>massive amounts of duplexing isn't a viable option anyway so it's
>rather a moot point.
>
>
>
Anonymous
September 25, 2005 2:45:52 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

zakezuke wrote:

>>Do I belong in this newsgroup?
>>I don't know but at least I do no deliberate harm.
>>
>>
>
>You talk about printers. On that note alone you belong in this group.
>
>You're "in da buzzniss"(sic) according to our resident spammer. This
>makes you more qualified than many other people including my self, MATT ZAKOWSKI.
>
>
>
September 25, 2005 8:16:58 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"zakezuke" <zakezuke_us@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Do I belong in this newsgroup?
>> I don't know but at least I do no deliberate harm.
>
>You talk about printers. On that note alone you belong in this group.
>
>You're "in da buzzniss"(sic) according to our resident spammer. This
>makes you more qualified than many other people including my self.

You are very kind but I have learnt more than I have contributed here, often
from yourself.
Tony
September 25, 2005 8:38:46 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

>>measekite <inkystinky@oem.com> wrote:
>>
>>>TONY DA TIGER MAKE MONEY FROM MANY OF YOU IDIOTS. HE DOES NOT BELONG IN
>>>THIS NG.
>>>
>>Completely wrong, this newsgroup provides me with no money any way you want
>>to
>>analyse it.
>>
>IT PROVIDES YOU WITH PUBIC RELATIONS.

I have not developed any pubic or pubLic relations from this newsgroup; but
your response clearly defines your preocupation with body parts.

As for public relations (with an "L" in the middle) how can I get public
relations if my location and any information about my business is not available
to readers of this ng, or is that too difficult a notion for you to understand?
Talk about thin arguments; maybe you are one of those tragic individuals that
have no knowledge or skill of any value to anyone so you try to unsuccessfully
develop an expert persona and when that fails you just get nasty, anonymously,
showing yourself to be the coward that you clearly are.

>
>>It provides me with information and a sense of achievement on the rare
>>occasions that I can help someone.
>>
>BULLSHIT..YOU ARE IN DA BUSINESS

So ????

BTW what is your relationship with http://www.stinkyink.com ?

Tony
Anonymous
September 25, 2005 9:43:04 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Tony wrote:

>"zakezuke" <zakezuke_us@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>Do I belong in this newsgroup?
>>>I don't know but at least I do no deliberate harm.
>>>
>>>
>>You talk about printers. On that note alone you belong in this group.
>>
>>You're "in da buzzniss"(sic) according to our resident spammer. This
>>makes you more qualified than many other people including my self.
>>
>>
>
>You are very kind but I have learnt more than I have contributed here, often
>from yourself.
>Tony da Tiger
>
>
Anonymous
September 25, 2005 9:44:32 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Tony wrote:

>>>measekite <inkystinky@oem.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>TONY DA TIGER MAKE MONEY FROM MANY OF YOU IDIOTS. HE DOES NOT BELONG IN
>>>>THIS NG.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Completely wrong, this newsgroup provides me with no money any way you want
>>>to
>>>analyse it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>IT PROVIDES YOU WITH PUBIC RELATIONS.
>>
>>
>
>I have not developed any pubic or pubLic relations from this newsgroup;
>

HA HA HA DO YOU EXPECT HIM TO ADMIT IT.

>but
>your response clearly defines your preocupation with body parts.
>
>As for public relations (with an "L" in the middle) how can I get pubic
>relations if my location and any information about my business is not available
>to readers of this ng, or is that too difficult a notion for you to understand?
>Talk about thin arguments; maybe you are one of those tragic individuals that
>have no knowledge or skill of any value to anyone so you try to unsuccessfully
>develop an expert persona and when that fails you just get nasty, anonymously,
>showing yourself to be the coward that you clearly are.
>
>
>
>>>It provides me with information and a sense of achievement on the rare
>>>occasions that I can help someone.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>BULLSHIT..YOU ARE IN DA BUSINESS
>>
>>
>
>So ????
>
>BTW what is your relationship with http://www.stinkyink.com ?
>
>Tony
>
>
>
>
September 25, 2005 12:36:20 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

>>>>measekite <inkystinky@oem.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>TONY DA TIGER MAKE MONEY FROM MANY OF YOU IDIOTS. HE DOES NOT BELONG IN
>>>>>THIS NG.
>>>>>
>>>>Completely wrong, this newsgroup provides me with no money any way you want
>>>>to analyse it.
>>>>
>>>IT PROVIDES YOU WITH PUBIC RELATIONS.
>>>
>>I have not developed any pubic or pubLic relations from this newsgroup;
>>
>HA HA HA DO YOU EXPECT HIM TO ADMIT IT.

Admit what exactly, do you have a point to make?
If so please stop shouting and provide some clarification so that we can
attempt to understand the deep and profound subtlety of your post.

Once more....what is your relationship with http://www.stinkyink.com ?


>>your response clearly defines your preocupation with body parts.
>>
>>As for public relations (with an "L" in the middle) how can I get public
>>relations if my location and any information about my business is not
>>available
>>to readers of this ng, or is that too difficult a notion for you to
>>understand?
>>Talk about thin arguments; maybe you are one of those tragic individuals that
>>have no knowledge or skill of any value to anyone so you try to
>>unsuccessfully
>>develop an expert persona and when that fails you just get nasty,
>>anonymously,
>>showing yourself to be the coward that you clearly are.


>>>>It provides me with information and a sense of achievement on the rare
>>>>occasions that I can help someone.

BULLSHIT..YOU ARE IN DA BUSINESS

So ???? Your point is what exactly?
September 26, 2005 9:27:36 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

<Measekite drivel snipped>

Thank you Measekite...your answers proved my case perfectly.
I now know that you cannot answer a simple question and I can relax and ignore
you for a while.
End of thread.
Tony
Anonymous
September 26, 2005 8:02:58 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

*HICKERY DICKERY DOC
DA MOUSE RAN UP DA COCK
DA COCK STRUCK ONE
DA UDDER GOT AWAY.

AH HA HA HA*

Tony wrote:

><Measekite drivel snipped>
>
>Thank you Measekite...your answers proved my case perfectly.
>I now know that you cannot answer a simple question and I can relax and ignore
>you for a while.
>End of thread.
>Tony
>
>
September 27, 2005 3:23:31 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

> you cannot duplex manually

Actually the canon drivers support manual duplexing. Its rather why
you have to check the "automatic" box after you select "duplex
printing". If you actually owned a canon and used this feature you
would no this.

We had this convo before... when you were ranting about how programing
software didn't support this feature. Either this is a lie or you
forgot.
Anonymous
September 27, 2005 5:10:37 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Taliesyn wrote:
> Mikey wrote:
>
>> I am using CANON ink and top quality paper.
>>
>> I am also only talking about a standard word document.
>>
>> I have printed out two versions of the same document. The only
>> difference is that one is set to DUPLEX and the other single sheet.
>>
>> It defiantly looks like each document uses the different Black ink.
>>
>>
>> Mike
>
>
> Yes, you are absolutely correct. This has nothing to to do with
> what kind of ink you are using - OEM or compatible - as Measekite
> would like you to believe.
>
> I get the same results as you using duplex with my iP5000 - which I
> hate duplexing with, by the way. It's agonizingly slow. When printing a
> document using duplex, your printer doesn't use the large pigmented
> black cartridge. It mixes the three CYM colors to imitate black, thus
> you get that dark grey text, so to speak, that you mentioned. I checked
> the duplex printout with a strong magnifier and could plainly see CYM
> dot splatters of red and blue (yellow is harder to see). This mixing
> colors to make "black" ink is intentional. My best guess is that Canon
> is doing this is because they know they would get smudging of the ink
> since pigmented black ink takes a lot longer to dry than the dye ink
> colors.
>
> I never ever use the duplex feature. I consider it inferior, now more
> than ever since it mixes colors to make black.
>
> I duplex manually. When I print one side of a page I often have to blow
> on it before showing it back in for the flip side. Smudge risk.
>
> So either accept the lighter shade of pale or flip and get genuine
> black. I prefer the latter.
>
> -Taliesyn

Well damn, and I just got an iP4000. I haven't
compared a duplex to a non-duplex yet. My old HP
970 works just fine with duplexing with pigmented
ink. But like you I find the duplexing,
especially the wait for the second side to be a
big bore. It isn't much more trouble and way
faster to just turn the pile of paper over and
print the back side.
Anonymous
September 27, 2005 5:10:38 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

George E. Cawthon wrote:

> Taliesyn wrote:
>
>> Mikey wrote:
>>
>>> I am using CANON ink and top quality paper.
>>>
>>> I am also only talking about a standard word document.
>>>
>>> I have printed out two versions of the same document. The only
>>> difference is that one is set to DUPLEX and the other single sheet.
>>>
>>> It defiantly looks like each document uses the different Black ink.
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, you are absolutely correct. This has nothing to to do with
>> what kind of ink you are using - OEM or compatible - as Measekite
>> would like you to believe.
>>
>> I get the same results as you using duplex with my iP5000 - which I
>> hate duplexing with, by the way. It's agonizingly slow. When printing a
>> document using duplex, your printer doesn't use the large pigmented
>> black cartridge. It mixes the three CYM colors to imitate black, thus
>> you get that dark grey text, so to speak, that you mentioned. I
>> checked the duplex printout with a strong magnifier and could plainly
>> see CYM dot splatters of red and blue (yellow is harder to see). This
>> mixing
>> colors to make "black" ink is intentional. My best guess is that Canon
>> is doing this is because they know they would get smudging of the ink
>> since pigmented black ink takes a lot longer to dry than the dye ink
>> colors.
>>
>> I never ever use the duplex feature. I consider it inferior, now more
>> than ever since it mixes colors to make black.
>>
>> I duplex manually. When I print one side of a page I often have to
>> blow on it before showing it back in for the flip side. Smudge risk.
>>
>> So either accept the lighter shade of pale or flip and get genuine
>> black. I prefer the latter.
>>
>> -Taliesyn
>
>
> Well damn, and I just got an iP4000. I haven't compared a duplex to a
> non-duplex yet. My old HP 970 works just fine with duplexing with
> pigmented ink. But like you I find the duplexing, especially the wait
> for the second side to be a big bore. It isn't much more trouble and
> way faster to just turn the pile of paper over and print the back side.
>

If you duplexed 20 pages automatically and then the same 20 manually
(print the even, then the odd pages), you'd find you'd save several
minutes. I did this test once, maybe just 10 pages, and was amazed
at the difference. I don't remember the time each took. Anyway, manual
felt like half the time. One day when I'm bored I'll set it do the 20
pages automatically while I go out and watch a two hour movie. They
should be ready by the time I return. . . :-)

And auto duplexing gives you that rather crummy looking black (dark
grey) compared to bold black pigmented from manual duplexing.

-Taliesyn
September 27, 2005 5:10:39 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Taliesyn wrote:

> And auto duplexing gives you that rather crummy looking black (dark
> grey) compared to bold black pigmented from manual duplexing.
>
> -Taliesyn

Please don't tell our resident idiot cause I'm all in favor of idiots
who think they are a genius proving themselves wrong.
Frank
September 27, 2005 5:21:50 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

> If you have an application which allows printing on
> even side/odd side only then duplex may not be so necessary. However, if you
> have applications which don't support even/odd side printing - i.e.
> Microsoft Publisher - then the duplex feature comes in quite handy.

Thanks for the useful analisis. The only time I saw the use of a
composite black was when I was duplexing on a ip3000 which lacked the
dye black, and I was using mixed black and colored text. Nice to know
I might avoid this using a 5 tank printer.

I would point out that the driver offers not only auto duplexing but
manual duplexing as well. It might be possible that manual duplexing
might offer the same shortcommings as auto duplexing, but it's easier
than typing in pages 1,3,5-999 and 2,4,6...1000 for the pages to print.
Anonymous
September 27, 2005 8:17:41 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

George E. Cawthon wrote:

> Taliesyn wrote:
>
>> Mikey wrote:
>>
>>> I am using CANON ink and top quality paper.
>>>
>>> I am also only talking about a standard word document.
>>>
>>> I have printed out two versions of the same document. The only
>>> difference is that one is set to DUPLEX and the other single sheet.
>>>
>>> It defiantly looks like each document uses the different Black ink.
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, you are absolutely correct. This has nothing to to do with
>> what kind of ink you are using - OEM or compatible - as Measekite
>> would like you to believe.
>

BULLSHIT AND COWSHIT

>>
>> I get the same results as you using duplex with my iP5000 - which I
>> hate duplexing with, by the way.
>

DUMB DEE DUMB DUMB DUMB

>> It's agonizingly slow. When printing a
>> document using duplex, your printer doesn't use the large pigmented
>> black cartridge.
>

MINE DOES. AND CANON SAYS SO. YOURS IS DEFECTIVE

>> It mixes the three CYM colors to imitate black,
>
NOPE

>> thus you get that dark grey text, so to speak, that you mentioned. I
>> checked the duplex printout with a strong magnifier
>

I DINK U NEED TO USEIT ON UR DICK. THAT IS SMALL ENOUGH

>> and could plainly see CYM dot splatters of red and blue (yellow is
>> harder to see). This mixing
>> colors to make "black" ink is intentional. My best guess is that
>> Canon is doing this is because they know they would get smudging of
>> the ink since pigmented black ink takes a lot longer to dry than the
>> dye ink colors.
>>
>> I never ever use the duplex feature. I consider it inferior,
>
LIKE YOU

>> now more
>> than ever since it mixes colors to make black.
>>
>> I duplex manually.
>
A SHMUCK. YOU CANNOT DUPLEX MANUALLY. ALL YOU DO IS PRINT SOME PAGES
AND THEN TURN THE PAPOR OVOUR AND DEN PRINT DA UTTER SIDE AND DEN
COLLATE DA STUFF. INSTEAD OF DAT YOUCOULD GO JERK OFF AND BE SURE TO
USE DA MAGNIFIER.

>> When I print one side of a page I often have to blow on it before
>> showing it back in for the flip side. Smudge risk.
>>
>> So either accept the lighter shade of pale or flip and get genuine
>> black. I prefer the latter.
>>
>> -Taliesyn
>
>
> Well damn, and I just got an iP4000. I haven't compared a duplex to a
> non-duplex yet. My old HP 970 works just fine with duplexing with
> pigmented ink. But like you I find the duplexing, especially the wait
> for the second side to be a big bore. It isn't much more trouble and
> way faster to just turn the pile of paper over and print the back side.
>
Anonymous
September 27, 2005 8:17:42 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

measekite wrote:

>
>>> I duplex manually.
>>
>>
> I CANNOT DUPLEX MANUALLY.

I'm not surprised. ;-)

> ALL YOU DO IS PRINT SOME PAGES
> AND THEN TURN THE PAPOR OVOUR AND DEN PRINT DA UTTER SIDE AND DEN
> COLLATE DA STUFF.

You don't "collate any stuff". The pages are already in the right order
after you print the second side. You just remove them from the tray.
Finished.

-Taliesyn
September 27, 2005 8:17:43 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Taliesyn wrote:
> measekite wrote:
>
>>
>>>> I duplex manually.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> I CANNOT DUPLEX MANUALLY.
>
>
> I'm not surprised. ;-)
>
>> ALL YOU DO IS PRINT SOME PAGES AND THEN TURN THE PAPOR OVOUR AND DEN
>> PRINT DA UTTER SIDE AND DEN COLLATE DA STUFF.
>
>
> You don't "collate any stuff". The pages are already in the right order
> after you print the second side. You just remove them from the tray.
> Finished.
>
> -Taliesyn

Whoa...bet that went right over his head!
Frank
Anonymous
September 27, 2005 8:19:02 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Frank wrote:

> Taliesyn wrote:
>
>> And auto duplexing gives you that rather crummy looking black (dark
>> grey) compared to bold black pigmented from manual duplexing.
>>
>> -Taliesyn
>
>
> Please don't tell our resident idiot (dats me) cause I'm all in favor
> of idiots who think they are a genius proving themselves wrong.
> Frank da CockRoach
September 27, 2005 10:11:57 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

>>> It's agonizingly slow. When printing a
>>> document using duplex, your printer doesn't use the large pigmented
>>> black cartridge.
>>
>
>MINE DOES. AND CANON SAYS SO. YOURS IS DEFECTIVE

It is you that is defective; the print quality from the ip4000 ***IS***
inferior with automatic duplexing. Just do a simple test with yours (simple for
normal people anyway but I'm sure you could get help from a 5 year old), the
reason for this is irrelevant, the fact is "it is a fact" - period. All of your
lies won't change the fact.

>YOU CANNOT DUPLEX MANUALLY.

Yes he can, you can't because it is far too complicated for you, but he and
everyone else can.

Tony
Anonymous
September 27, 2005 11:14:06 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I may as well jump in on the duplex vs. non duplex arguments. I just did a
test print with my iP4000. The document was created in Microsoft Publisher
and had two columns on each page. Each column was completely filled with the
words 'Duplex print darkness test'. A heavy, bold font set to 48 pts was
used for one column and the other had the same text, but printed with 12 pt.
Times Roman. A mixture of colors was used for the text - black, blue, red,
green, yellow, purple, teal. A portrait photo was also on the page. The
print test was run with the top cover of the printer open and a tightly
rolled scrap of paper was used to hold down the cover switch to prevent the
cover open message from popping up. I used 24# Weyerhaeuser Premium Multi
Purpose paper for this test.
The following tests were run:
1.- Duplex mode, plain paper, print quality = standard
2.- Duplex mode, plain paper, print quality = high
3.- Single sheet mode, plain paper, print quality = standard
4.- Single sheet mode, plain paper, print quality = high
5.- Single sheet mode, high res paper, print quality = standard
6.- Single sheet mode, high res paper, print quality = high

With the cover open it's very easy to see if the wide path from the BCI-3ebk
nozzles for pigmented black or if the narrow print path from the BCI-6 photo
black nozzles is used. In all cases only black ink appeared to be used for
black text, composite black for text was never observed. Also, smearing the
black output with a moist tissue did not pick up any color other than black,
nor did viewing the output with an 8x loupe.

For plain paper, the pigmented black is utilized for both text and photos.
Print quality could be high or standard, but pigmented black is used for
either setting. For other paper modes(i.e. high res paper) pigmented black
is not used, only photo black. The same ink usage characteristics are seen
regardless if duplex or single sheet mode is utilized and regardless if
print quality = high or standard is specified. Note: duplex is not an option
with any paper types except plain and photo paper plus double side.

When the output from duplex is compared to the output from single side there
is an observable (slight) difference in print intensity. In plain paper mode
using duplex the output (both black and color) isn't as dense as in single
sided prints and is a bit lighter which nearly eliminates any bleed through
of the ink to the reverse side. In single side mode the bleed through is
very noticeable, enough so that printing on the reverse side would be
useless. This can be overcome if the intensity setting is moved to the
extreme left. Note that bleed through is only a problem with pigmented
black - BCI-3ebk - and not with any of the BCI-6 colors, including photo
black. The usage of pigmented black can be eliminated by specifying a
different paper type other than plain paper. This also results in crisper
text than if using pigmented black.

Duplex is a nice feature and in certain situations works very well. There is
a time lag to flip each page, but it can be shortened a little by adjusting
the drying time setting. If you have an application which allows printing on
even side/odd side only then duplex may not be so necessary. However, if you
have applications which don't support even/odd side printing - i.e.
Microsoft Publisher - then the duplex feature comes in quite handy. Just be
prepared to take a little break or do something else if you are printing a
long document.

One other note: The resident troll is likely to say the cause of the
pigmented ink bleed through is the result of using third party ink
(Formulabs). It is true that bleed through did occur using Formulabs ink,
but I also ran the same set of tests using OEM Canon ink and the results
were the same as were all the colors.
--
Ron


"Taliesyn" <taliesyn4@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:11jh8ell6j8kg14@corp.supernews.com...
> George E. Cawthon wrote:
>
>> Taliesyn wrote:
>>
>>> Mikey wrote:
>>>
>>>> I am using CANON ink and top quality paper.
>>>>
>>>> I am also only talking about a standard word document.
>>>>
>>>> I have printed out two versions of the same document. The only
>>>> difference is that one is set to DUPLEX and the other single sheet.
>>>>
>>>> It defiantly looks like each document uses the different Black ink.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, you are absolutely correct. This has nothing to to do with
>>> what kind of ink you are using - OEM or compatible - as Measekite
>>> would like you to believe.
>>>
>>> I get the same results as you using duplex with my iP5000 - which I
>>> hate duplexing with, by the way. It's agonizingly slow. When printing a
>>> document using duplex, your printer doesn't use the large pigmented
>>> black cartridge. It mixes the three CYM colors to imitate black, thus
>>> you get that dark grey text, so to speak, that you mentioned. I checked
>>> the duplex printout with a strong magnifier and could plainly see CYM
>>> dot splatters of red and blue (yellow is harder to see). This mixing
>>> colors to make "black" ink is intentional. My best guess is that Canon
>>> is doing this is because they know they would get smudging of the ink
>>> since pigmented black ink takes a lot longer to dry than the dye ink
>>> colors.
>>>
>>> I never ever use the duplex feature. I consider it inferior, now more
>>> than ever since it mixes colors to make black.
>>>
>>> I duplex manually. When I print one side of a page I often have to blow
>>> on it before showing it back in for the flip side. Smudge risk.
>>>
>>> So either accept the lighter shade of pale or flip and get genuine
>>> black. I prefer the latter.
>>>
>>> -Taliesyn
>>
>>
>> Well damn, and I just got an iP4000. I haven't compared a duplex to a
>> non-duplex yet. My old HP 970 works just fine with duplexing with
>> pigmented ink. But like you I find the duplexing, especially the wait
>> for the second side to be a big bore. It isn't much more trouble and way
>> faster to just turn the pile of paper over and print the back side.
>>
>
> If you duplexed 20 pages automatically and then the same 20 manually
> (print the even, then the odd pages), you'd find you'd save several
> minutes. I did this test once, maybe just 10 pages, and was amazed
> at the difference. I don't remember the time each took. Anyway, manual
> felt like half the time. One day when I'm bored I'll set it do the 20
> pages automatically while I go out and watch a two hour movie. They should
> be ready by the time I return. . . :-)
>
> And auto duplexing gives you that rather crummy looking black (dark grey)
> compared to bold black pigmented from manual duplexing.
>
> -Taliesyn
Anonymous
September 27, 2005 2:16:43 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

drc023 wrote:

> I may as well jump in on the duplex vs. non duplex arguments....

> In all cases only black ink appeared to be used for
> black text, composite black for text was never observed. Also, smearing the
> black output with a moist tissue did not pick up any color other than black,
> nor did viewing the output with an 8x loupe.
>

The color is there.

My latest tests under a highly magnified view showed as many cyan dots
as black ones. A few magenta ones were observed too. The lesser use of
black, which appears under strong magnification like the old dot matrix
printing, is filled in with the help of cyan (and an occasional magenta
dot) to make it all look one color. And it does. A dark grey . . .

My earlier claim that it was purely a composite black of the three
colors was erroneous. Black pigment IS used, but MUCH less, and filled
in with mostly cyan.

-Taliesyn
Anonymous
September 27, 2005 7:26:08 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Frank wrote:

> Taliesyn wrote:
>
>> measekite wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>>> I duplex manually.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I CANNOT DUPLEX MANUALLY.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm not surprised. ;-)
>>
>>> ALL YOU DO IS PRINT SOME PAGES AND THEN TURN THE PAPOR OVOUR AND DEN
>>> PRINT DA UTTER SIDE AND DEN COLLATE DA STUFF.
>>
>>
>>
>> You don't "collate any stuff". The pages are already in the right order
>> after you print the second side. You just remove them from the tray.
>> Finished.
>>
>> -Taliesyn
>
>
> *Whoa.*..bet that went right over his head!
> Frank

DATS WHAT UR MOMMY SAID TO YOU CAUSE SHE THOUGHT U WIRR A HORSE. BUT U
ARE A COCKROACH.
!