first build ?'s

[noobe]

Guys,
I'm thinking of building my first pc. I'm thinking of a sff build.
I'm thinking of :
ultra products micro fly case
amd cpu 939 maybe x2
mid - high end graph card nvidia ? pci-e
nec dvd+/- cdrw or lite on not sure

My ? now. What mobo is a good one to start the build with? Mainly a gaming system build. As you can tell i don't know much about pc builds and or which components to go with. Tia for any ideas u have on this.

 

[noobe]

mpilchfamily,
Are there any mobo's out there that will let me go am2 and ddr2 in a sff build? If so which ones are good ones to look at?
Just thought of something. If i use high end gpu and cpu. Will the heat be high in the small case? Can i go liquid cool? Should i ?

 

[noobe]

Sorry about that. sff small form factor. I 'm thinking of building a micro atx mobo build.

 

[noobe]

Sorry just read an article on small builds in a mag. I thought sff was a standard term. Should have known better.

As to mobo which micro atx boards are good ones to start looking at? I've heard of Asus and gigabyte.Don't know if the micros are as good as the atx's they put out.

 

[rwpritchett]

Read up on some of the articles at www.sfftech.com.

They specialize in the small computer segment.

 

[WR2]

SFF with either AMD AM2 or Intel Conroe CPUs should not be a problem.
Here are a couple reviews of that case you're considering:
SharkyExtreme Review MicroFly Micro-ATX Case
Modders-Inc Review MicroFly Micro-ATX Case

Have you set a budget yet?

 

[noobe]

MPILCH,
I wasn't thinking of going sli with this one but if so i think i could go with a shuttle case.

I didn't think about a budget. Just want to get good parts and have little to no problems with the build. I do want to get a good cpu,gpu,and mobo setup with no compatability problems. I think the micro fly sounds like a good case for this build. It has a removable mobo tray. Still don't know if i want to the psu is all that good.

 

[noobe]

Guys,
Which mobo should i look at? Which ones should i avoid? Which cpu should i look at "i.e. venice, winchester,etc"?tia

 

[rwpritchett]

You'll need to give a budget for your build plus you need to let us know what items you <i>don't</i> need (operating system, monitor, etc.) so we can meet that budget with the best parts. All we know right now is that you want a SFF gaming system that's mATX and maybe s939. By the way, the only reason to go s939 is if you are limited by budget. Otherwise, go AM2 or C2D.

 

[noobe]

rw,
Sorry about not giving enough info.I guess the budget is somewhere between $1500-$2000.the op sys will be xp pro. I have a monitor already. i've heard amd cpu's are the way to go if you ever plan to overclock. Heard they were better overall then intel also.In regards to the ram? What do the latencies have to do with performance?

 

[noobe]

Guys,
did a little looking around at newegg. Found some possible parts. What do y'all think?
asus model# m2n-mx $77
asus model#m2npv-vm $85
Gigabyte model#ga-m51gm-s2g $78

amd model#ada4400cdbox toledo $245
amd model# ada4000csbox windsor $209
amd model# ada4800cdbox toledo $280

I don't know the difference between toledo and windsor cpu. I assume some are better then others.

 

[rwpritchett]

I'm just going off of memory, but I believe Toledo is a s939 with 2 x 1M cache while a windsor is a AM2 with 2x 512k cache.

For $1500, you could easily build a nice C2D system. Also, SFF and overclocking don't go very well together for two reasons: 1) case airflow, 2) not enough space for a big aftermarket CPU heatsink.

It's best if you go SFF to get the best performance you can afford without overclocking.

How about this setup:
Shuttle Core 2 Duo Barebones 975X Intel Chipset$429.99

Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 Conroe$317.99

OCZ Gold Series 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 $219.99

Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD3200KS 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive$99.99

XFX PVT71PUDE3 Geforce 7900GS 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 XT Edition Video Card$209.99

Microsoft Windows XP Professional With SP2B 1 Pack - OEM$139.99

That's about $1500 with shipping, and it's fast enough that you won't need to overclock. Add a little more if you need speakers, keyboard, mouse, etc.

 

[rwpritchett]

I agree, Shuttle's do limit your upgradeability. Plus, they are more expensive than buying a case, mobo, and PSU separately. They are, however, the only manufacturer that is offering a mATX platform with an intel 975X chipset and supports crossfire, if desired. Other mATX boards are usually based on the 945 chipset, some on the 965G. Also, they don't get much smaller than a Shuttle, if that is your goal.

If it were me, I'd probably buy either the Gigabyte or Asus mATX 965G motherboards and put it in one of the above suggested cases. I would personally like to see more P965 and 975X based mATX motherboards out there.

For the OP, who is a first time builder, it might be easier to get a packaged barebones to put together that will serve his purposes. If he's up to it, then go ahead and piece it together separately.

 

[noobe]

rwpritchet,
Why should i go intel instead of amd? I thought amd was the cpu to go with. More like a am2. Another ? i have is what's a c2d?

Logain,
Why do you like the aspire? I saw the micro fly looks cool. If you have reasons for or against the micro fly let me know. Also let me know pros and cons with the aspire. I know the micro fly is a little longer to fit a full size atx psu.

 

[rwpritchett]

rwpritchet,
Why should i go intel instead of amd? I thought amd was the cpu to go with. More like a am2. Another ? i have is what's a c2d?

C2D = Core 2 Duo (a.k.a. Conroe) Intel's latest offering.

At the moment, Intel's new C2D processors are at the top of the dual-core performance pile. I'm sure AMD will release something in the future to best it, but right now Intel is king. If you are looking at getting a single core processor, AMD is still the way to go since they are cheaper, faster, and more efficient than the Pentium 4.

Take a look at THG's CPU charts to compare the processors that you are considering.

Also, with RAM prices at record levels, C2D's are even more enticing because they don't take a big performance hit with slower (cheaper) RAM. AM2 processors need high-end RAM to perform well.

The only real thing that AMD has going for them right now is that there is a better selection of chipsets and therefore motherboards to choose from. AMD's have nVidia chipsets available that will allow SLI for gaming, but if you don't plan on running multiple graphics cards, this point is moot.

 

[rwpritchett]

Here's an article you should read before deciding which path to take:

C2D vs AM2

 

[sactownbwoy]

You can go with a SN27P2 (AM2) or a SD37P2 (C2D) both from shuttle. I have the SN27P2 with a am2 3800 single core clocked to 2.7 from 2.4 and it only gets to about 50C under load. I also have a x1900xt 512 clocked to xtx speeds with the zalman vf900cu and it only gets to about 73C under load. The only bad thing was the chipset with the zalman cooler all the hot air from the graphics card is blown right onto it. I have upgraded the cooler for the chipset but what i did was take it off and us AS5 and now it only get up to about 52C under load. The psu in only a 400w but according to shuttle it can handle an fx cpu and high end gpu no problem. check anandtech they did a review. The SD37P2 does crossfire out of the box. They are both nice shuttle boxes.

 

[noobe]

rwp,
Thanx for the amd c2d comparision. It looks like the c2d is the way to go for now.
? now is which mobo? still thinking matx.
the cpu probably the e6400

For a case i'm thinking one of these:
lian li pc v300b
sg01
apevia x qpack bk
I like the removable mobo tray. Seems easier to build with this feature. Are the lian li and sg01 harder to place parts in then the apevia?
A side from cost what are the pros and cons of each case?
tia

 

[rwpritchett]

Here's some more reading for you:

Silverstone Sugo SG01 Review

Lian Li V300B Review

Aprevia (Aspire) X-Qpak Review with video

For a motherboard, how about this one:
ASUS P5B-VM Socket T (LGA 775) Intel G965 Express Micro ATX Intel Motherboard

 

[noobe]

RWP,
I like the sg01 and the lain li. i noticed something with the sg01. if you look at the inside of the case. Just above the front the switches and below the drive cages. There is a piece looks about the size of a pci slot. Is that used to hold the front face plate on? Can this be modified to hold fan controler and temp guage?
The lain li looks to be the easiest to build on. With removable trays. How hard is the sg01 to build on?

Alomost forgot Thank you for all the help.

 

[rwpritchett]

I think the Silverstone is the best of the bunch. I like the Lian Li but I'm not sure I could get used to the optical drives being on the side instead of the front. Also, if you go to Silverstone's website, they have some neet addon accesories for the sg01.

I saw that little plate hiding behind the front just above the USB and audio hookups. I don't know what it is. I read all of the reviews on newegg and nobody mentions it. Since there doesn't appear to be any access to it from the front, it probably isn't meant for any add-ins. The case does have two 5.25 bays so if you only have one DVD drive you could put a fan controller in the other space.

Read the customer reviews of both the Lian Li and the Silverstone on newegg.com to get an idea of craftmanship and ease of installation. I imagine that its just a matter of preference on your part which one will suit your needs. Both are very good brands.

 

[abizzell]

Hey noobe!

I just completed my build of a MicroFly with a C2D E6400. I used my Antec 430watt PSU (standard size), two optical drives, flopy drive, Audigy2ZS sound card, VIA Firewire card, BFG 6600GTOC AGP card, and 2x1GB PC3200 DDR DIMMs on an ASUStek P5PE-VM mobo. The case, while flimsy when not fully fastened together, is spacious and cool.

I am only using a Zalman Alcu-7700 heatsink and fan long with the PSU exhuast fan and idle at a mobo temp of `40c with the CPU at around 40c as well. Running at 2.13GHz, 1064MHz FSB under load it maintains around 50c for the CPU and is fairly quiet.

The mobo tray is ok, but is essential in this case as the frame interferes with the installation of the CPU heatsink/fan as well as the PCI cards. When pulling it out you have to disconnect ALL of the power and IDE cables to prevent snagging and bending their connectors. The interior edges are not rolled and are rough enough to cut you or wiring. I filed them smooth and used rubber tubing to mask some of the pass-thru channels in the frame. Not a biggie!

I wanted to keep cost down so elected to use the P5PE mobo in order to keep my existing components hile upgrading the CPU and not have to buy a new mobo, DDR2, PCIe cards, SATA HDDs/optical drive, and PCIe video card. I have had good experience with ASUS and since their are so few boards available the suit the bill with Intel being too expensive and not trusting VIA based mobos I stuck with ASUS. The boards manual backward in its depiction of the IDE Primary and Secondary connectors on the board which caused a problem, but in questioning myinstallation, I saw the conflict between the stencils on the mobo and hat was shaown in the manual.

Also, like the page for the Microfly on Ultra's website, the manual is severely lacking in information. However, for the price the MicroFly is an excellent case, IMO. I read one review that stated the author couldn't get a good fit and alignment of the side and top panels once the case was loaded, but mine looks great after having the tray in and out and replugged 4 times.

If I had the $$ I would have opted for a 975x mobo with all it requires, but still, this setup smokes compared to my P4 2.53GHz/533MHz FSB socket 478 rig.

Good luck on your build!

 

[rwpritchett]

OK, here's a new list:

SILVERSTONE SST-SG01-B Black Aluminum/acrylic front panel, 1.5mm aluminum body MicroATX Desktop Computer Case - OEM $150
Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 Conroe 2.4GHz 4M sharing L2 Cache LGA 775 Processor - Retail $317
ASUS P5B-VM Socket T (LGA 775) Intel G965 Express Micro ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail $133
Patriot 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model PDC22G5300LLK - Retail $260
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD3200KS 320GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM $90 (MIR)
Microsoft Windows XP Professional With SP2B 1 Pack - OEM $140
ENERMAX Liberty ELT500AWT ATX12V 500W Power Supply - Retail $100 (MIR)
eVGA 512-P2-N573-AR Geforce 7900GTO 512MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail $260
LITE-ON 16X DVD±R DVD Burner W/LightScribe and 5X DVD-RAM Write Black ATAPI/E-IDE Model SHM-165H6S - Retail $35

Total: $1483 before shipping

This will blow the doors off pretty much anything (as long as the video card will fit in the case).

 

[abizzell]

rw-

Looks like a strong, fast, and well priced buy!

Like I said about the ASUS board I just bought, double check the ports: the book against the stencilling on the board against standard usage, i.e. color of connectors, location, etc. In my manual it appears they flipped the slides for both the 'front panel switches/lights' and 'front panel audio' onboard ports before labelling the graphics. Each has missing pins which appear to be upside-down and backward compared to the physical configuration on the board. Luckily, I didn't fry anything by plugging the "PLD" wires into the "PWR" switch pins; though it didn't want to start the machine, nor the 'PLD'.

I really like the SUGO! I'm into recording so had discounted the ICH8 with the 965 chipset as, IIRC, they don't support S/PDIF, but other than that, you've picked out great components for an excellent price.

An off-the-wall question- Were you ever a "crewchief"?
Your name is familiar.

Luck on the build.

abizzell