DX10 conumdrum...

[Olim]

I need a new GPU because my current one has broken, but I'm reluctant to spend a lot knowing the dx10 cards are just around the corner. hence I'm thinking along the lines of a 7600gt.

How much will dx10 actually change things? will it pretty soon mean all dx9 cards are fairly obsolete with the new games?

 

[The_Abyss]

1) You will need Vista to see DX10 benefits

2) Some games are Vista only but

3) DX9 cards and games will be here for quite a while yet

 

[Olim]

will games that are based on dx10 be playable with dx9 cards? surely for a while at least before dx10 is the sdtandard

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Early DX10 games will all have DX9 fallbacks.

I doubt we'll see DX10 only games until 2009, DX9 or at least DX9.0C should be the base fallback for everything for quite some time.

The next step may be requiring 32bit precision (thus DX9.0C / GF6-7/X1K), but even that is likely off in the distance.

 

[commanderspockep]

The word is DX9 titles (XP titles) wont be playable on DX10 (Vista). Whether programmers make their DX10 games playable on DX9 machines is soon to be seen. Keep in mind its all speculation still. But ape seems reasonable in his assesment.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

DX9 titles should play on Vista.

The only thing is to enable additional Vista features of DX9.0L they will need to be coded to use those features, otherwise it will run in a pseudo 'compatability' mode.

The problem is that there will need to be 3 render paths if games are to be optimized for all 3 scenarios.

 

[13thmonkey]

The word is DX9 titles (XP titles) wont be playable on DX10 (Vista). Whether programmers make their DX10 games playable on DX9 machines is soon to be seen. Keep in mind its all speculation still. But ape seems reasonable in his assesment.

Bull....

There have been several tech sites testing Dx9 games on Vista, and they work, sometimes there are troubles, but generally they are ok, but slower, most of this has been put down bad/immature drivers.

 

[sailer]

I read something last week that said that Vista was being delayed until Easter. If so, you and I and everyone else will have to wait even longer before DX10 cards become necessary.

I know don't trust everything that you (I) read, but at the same time, Vista has been put off so many times that I wonder if it will ever get released. On one hand, I would like to be happy that Microsoft is working out the bugs so we don't have to, but on the other, I wish they'd stop announcing release dates and then fail to meet them. I say that as a person who is a Microsoft stockholder.

 

[laitainion]

As I understand it, Vista will come with the latest iteration of DirectX 9, which I think will be functionally identical to DirectX on Windows XP, as a side by side installation with DirectX 10. DirectX 9 will never be updated again, so provide 'permanent' backwards compatibility for all pre-DirectX 10 games (assuming the core Win32 API's the particular game requires are also there) with DirectX 10 being updated into the future.

I believe the this is necessary because of the changes to the way Windows handles Graphics Drivers (more 2-way communication and offloading iirc), which requires a different architecture for DirectX 10 to fully exploit this.

Also, Paul Thurrott has tested numerous games on various Vista builds, and performance has improved a what with Vista, and the drivers for it, maturing. If you're interested, this is an interesting article on gaming in Vista which is definitely worth a read.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

As I understand it, Vista will come with the latest iteration of DirectX 9, which I think will be functionally identical to DirectX on Windows XP,

No it will be enhanced beyond DX9.0C found in XP closer to DX9.0X found in the X360, it is the currently pseudonamed DX9.0L and will be backwards compatible with some probably minor issues, while exposing new features of the Vista driver-resource access/management.

I believe the this is necessary because of the changes to the way Windows handles Graphics Drivers (more 2-way communication and offloading iirc), which requires a different architecture for DirectX 10 to fully exploit this.

Actually alot of those features will be added to DX9.0L according to MSDN, only a few minor items will require DX10, and those are the ones that require DX10 hardware to fully eploit them anyways.

Also, Paul Thurrott has tested numerous games on various Vista builds, ...[/quote]

Not really that informative, Extremetech's look provided more insight on the how and what, but everyone is still using the DX9.0 end of the equation on current builds, not on the Ultimate build, but that should mean that the level of backward compatability won't be lost.

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1989806,00.asp
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1972220,00.asp

 

[Slava]

I looked through all posts quickly and I might have missed it. But it looks like everyone failed to mention that DX10 (next generation) video cards are expected to be much faster (up to 50% or more) than the top of the line current cards. DX10 support (in games) or not, Vista or not, answering the OP's original question:

Yes. Top of the line current cards will be "fairly" obsolete in the near future. My personal opinion is that they will be very obsolete soon.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Well he was talking about the 'obsolete factor' more than just the performance.

But if you look to part 2 (of the 4 part extremetech article) you see Bob Drebin say; While DirectX 10 may only be exposed under Vista, ATI's DirectX 10 capable graphics cards are designed to deliver strong performance in DirectX 9 games running on Windows XP as well.

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1985154,00.asp

Not quite the YES answer hoped for to the question asked "The first DX10 cards are going to have to be the fastest DX9 cards on the market as well, right?", but good enough.

However I guess your and my definition of Obsolete is different.

BF2 finally made the GF4ti Obsolete and Oblivion finally made the R8500-9250 & GFFX cards Obsolete.

Will the future DX10 cards make the current cards Obsolete, no, will it make them regretable pruchases in a couple of weeks, yeah probably, once the mid-level G8x and RV6xx cards hit the market. But if you need a card now, it's safe to say it will play for a while, but it's also safe to say there may be a twinge of regret, and some sweet replacements may be here soon enough.

 

[Slava]

However I guess your and my definition of Obsolete is different.

Yep.

BF2 finally made the GF4ti Obsolete and Oblivion finally made the R8500-9250 & GFFX cards Obsolete.

Yep. Obsolete as in "no longer capable of playing new games such as BF2 at all". Yeah good point.

Will the future DX10 cards make the current cards Obsolete?

Right. Not in the sense that they will be unusable.

"will it make them regretable pruchases in a couple of weeks, yeah probably, once the mid-level G8x and RV6xx cards hit the market.

Right. That's what I meant. And I think that since he asked whether new cards would make current cards "failry" obsolete, I think that my answer was fairly accurate. When your card performs at 50% the speed of a new card you cannot help feeling that what you have is fairly obsolete.

But if you need a card now, it's safe to say it will play for a while, but it's also safe to say there may be a twinge of regret, and some sweet replacements may be here soon enough.

Yep-yep.