Getting an X-Fi card + Logitech Z5500's

d3v

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I'm gonna upgrade my Audigy 2 + P5800 5.1's to an X-fi Fatal1ty FPS + Logitech Z-5500's but have 2 questions...

Is the only difference between the X-fi Fatal1ty FPS and the X-Fi Xtreme Music the front panel + remote control? If so, I'll go with the X-Fi Xtreme Music.

The kit is primarily for gaming, by the way. So please state weather the X-Fi Xtreme Music has x-RAM and if it supports the latest EAX ect ect.

Second question is what other 3rd party cables would I need? I want to be able to rig everything up via optical and analog.

Thanks in advance.
 

slicessoul

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Latest EAX ?
What i know the latest EAX is EAX 3 advanced HD. Audigy 2ZS support it. If you wanna go high, get the X-Fi Platinum.

If the Logitech Z-5500 support optical, then buy the optical cable as 3rd party cable. X-Fi doesn't provide it.
 

halcyon

Splendid
The X-Fi Fata1ity and Elite Pro both have 64MB of X-Ram. Which, currently, has very limited use and very few games support this resource. However, that may change if developers decide X-Ram is worth their effort. There are already a sprinkling of games that support it.

Cables? For the Logitech Z-5500's you'd likely want to use the Z-5500's included analog cables so that you can experience the X-Fi's EAX capabilities...something you'll not be able to do if you connect them via S/PDIF...optical or digital. I think you'll truly enjoy the X-Fi+Z-5500 combination.

If you should decided to ever hook your X-Fi up to a receiver and would like to experience its EAX on the receiver you'd need to get Creative's HT cable ( http://www.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=1&subcategory=16&product=14309 ), or attempt to create something similar with multiple cables and adapters that may be available @ RadioShack, etc. Otherwise you can push the X-Fi's 2-channel stereo PCM signal to the reciever via S/PDIF and allow the reciever to upmix the signal to simulated surround if desired and said receiver has the ability (D.ProLogic II or DTS Neo, etc.).

Personally, I'm not sure I'd make the investment in the X-Fi Fata1ity but would more consider the X-Fi Platinum, thus losing the 64MB of gimic-RAM, unless the $$ is truly disposable.

Good luck and enjoy.
 

d3v

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Thanks for the advice. You are right, the Platinum version is the best value for money. I never knew it existed cos not many UK retailers stock it. Had to search quite hard. I found one now. Gonna get it :p
 

GreenJelly

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Is the only difference between the X-fi Fatal1ty FPS and the X-Fi Xtreme Music the front panel + remote control? If so, I'll go with the X-Fi Xtreme Music.

Yes.

Great sound card... amazing sound, and improves gaming performance...

You can always upgrade the X-Fi to the Fatality. I bought the upgrade because the SPDIF output is on the same spot as the Line in. If you use a receiver and want to plug this system into that receiver, and then want to use a microphone for gaming, then the front pannel is needed:(

The software for the remote that comes with the product is really nice... when you get the card, you MUST install the software off the CD, then you go to the website and upgrade the drivers
 

justencase

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I use the xtreame and the 5500's setup tips the 5500's have a built it decoder so you have to change the signal to external decoder ... Hope that saves you some setup time took me a while to get it all in digital sound..... but sounds great . You wont need a home sterio with that set up .. If you have any questions just Pm me .. Been there dont that with setting those up.
 

halcyon

Splendid
I use the xtreame and the 5500's setup tips the 5500's have a built it decoder so you have to change the signal to external decoder ... Hope that saves you some setup time took me a while to get it all in digital sound..... but sounds great . You wont need a home sterio with that set up .. If you have any questions just Pm me .. Been there dont that with setting those up.

Going all-digital from the X-Fi to the Z-5500's is the single-cable (thus more elegant) way to go if you don't mind completely losing the X-Fi's multi-channel EAX abilities. The only way to get EAX out of the X-Fi is to connect via analog cables. If you do connect digitally you've got to use the Z-5500's decoder to upmix the 2-channel stereo to 5.1 channel surround IF you want surround. I've tried it both ways, just for my edification, and found that the 6-Channel Direct sounds considerably more pleasant to me. ...especially when using slight EAX settings for music, the kit seems very pleasant for personal surround.
 

GreenJelly

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I use the xtreame and the 5500's setup tips the 5500's have a built it decoder so you have to change the signal to external decoder ... Hope that saves you some setup time took me a while to get it all in digital sound..... but sounds great . You wont need a home sterio with that set up .. If you have any questions just Pm me .. Been there dont that with setting those up.

Going all-digital from the X-Fi to the Z-5500's is the single-cable (thus more elegant) way to go if you don't mind completely losing the X-Fi's multi-channel EAX abilities. The only way to get EAX out of the X-Fi is to connect via analog cables. If you do connect digitally you've got to use the Z-5500's decoder to upmix the 2-channel stereo to 5.1 channel surround IF you want surround. I've tried it both ways, just for my edification, and found that the 6-Channel Direct sounds considerably more pleasant to me. ...especially when using slight EAX settings for music, the kit seems very pleasant for personal surround.

Nope EAX is available from the settings inside the configuration. and are just outputted in the Digital form...

Most good receivers will do a VERY good job at decoding the audio. In high quality receivers you will get better settings... but the utilities available are so easy to set up the sound, via the computer.

I just dont see why you would need SPDIF Optical and Digital out from the front panel. This seems really stupid to me.
 

halcyon

Splendid
I use the xtreame and the 5500's setup tips the 5500's have a built it decoder so you have to change the signal to external decoder ... Hope that saves you some setup time took me a while to get it all in digital sound..... but sounds great . You wont need a home sterio with that set up .. If you have any questions just Pm me .. Been there dont that with setting those up.

Going all-digital from the X-Fi to the Z-5500's is the single-cable (thus more elegant) way to go if you don't mind completely losing the X-Fi's multi-channel EAX abilities. The only way to get EAX out of the X-Fi is to connect via analog cables. If you do connect digitally you've got to use the Z-5500's decoder to upmix the 2-channel stereo to 5.1 channel surround IF you want surround. I've tried it both ways, just for my edification, and found that the 6-Channel Direct sounds considerably more pleasant to me. ...especially when using slight EAX settings for music, the kit seems very pleasant for personal surround.

Nope EAX is available from the settings inside the configuration. and are just outputted in the Digital form...

Most good receivers will do a VERY good job at decoding the audio. In high quality receivers you will get better settings... but the utilities available are so easy to set up the sound, via the computer.

I just dont see why you would need SPDIF Optical and Digital out from the front panel. This seems really stupid to me.

Give it a shot, and I believe you'll find otherwise. Anyone. X-Fi's don't output more than 2-channel PCM in digital format unless being used as pass-through for software with Dolby Digital or DTS multi-channel decoding. Therefore, you'l not get 6+ channel EAX out of an X-Fi when it is connected via digital output. You may get a downmixed 2-channell CMSS3D version that is upmixed by the receiver to simulated surround, but you will not get 6+ discrete channels direct via S/DIF from the X-Fi as you would with an analog connection. Not trying to initiate any unnecessary debate but if you can provide documenation or a link that proves otherwise please share. Perhaps there's been a firmware update for the X-Fi.
 

GreenJelly

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first 6+ channels of audio on a computer system is stupid... infact, unless you have a VERY large area, and your sitting at least 10-20 feet away from the front speakers, 6+ channel audio is rediculous...

SPDIF outputs are 5+ channels... and the X-FI exports DTS and Dolby Digital out the back connector. The additional channels are a part of these standards...

5.1 Audio is too much for computers... simply put, you cannot experiance surround sound when speakers are 4 feet away from you... well you can but the true sound improvement is very minimum. What I am interested in is using my PC as a Entertainment center with my HD-TV and big speakers.

ALL X-FI AUDIO CARDS WHERE BUILT WITH THIS IN MIND!

So yes, if you want, you CAN hook up your 7.1 audio system and play it... but as far as movies goes... 7.1 and 6.1 are dead standards. They simply do not make DVD's and/or HD/BLUE Ray with dedicated 8 or 7 channels..

If you question what I say, call your nearest high end audio store, and ask them for some GREAT computer speakers... They simply do not sell them, because good sound takes

A) Room to Develop
B) Takes big speakers
C) Takes allot of power

BOSE are NOT high end audio stores... Satalite speakers SUCK! sorry guys... but these are not systems worth working on.
 

GreenJelly

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Thanks for your opinions regarding audio. You may want to do some further research on which X-Fi's decode Dolby Digital and DTS.

I have a 5.1 system installed using the X-Fi Digital output to a reciever, right now... I bought the music version, but found out that I wanted to be able to use the mic for online gaming... Especially Compititions.

I have personal experiance with screwing up the 5.1 by accedently having the receiver and the soundblaster using two different effects. hehe...

You may notice that certain versions of PowerDVD wont output 5.1 sound.

The best system to use for Computer speakers is a 2.1 or 4.1 speaker system. Anything else is allot of waste, due to the restrictions of space. The worst thing you can do with speakers is to put them directly ontop of a desk. The highend will bounce all over the place, and the base doesnt have time to develop. But then again, what choices do you have...

I use a receiver because I found the computer system speakers to be less then what I wanted. They almost always are overpriced self amplified systems. I just waited for a sale at radioshack (RCA).

When I move I am going to buy a 35" LCD... I have a pair of thiel cs.5's, a B&W sub, and will be buying a pair of Thiel 3.5s, and a center channel (which I havent decided on). I also am going with a NAD receiver, for they are the only high current rated systems available.

The system will be as high end as I would ever want... I buy Thiels used, for the resale value is low. This is due to their 4 ohm ratings, and the complete lack of support by almost every acceptably priced receiver/amp.

4-5 years ago, they use to sell alot of 4 ohm 5.1 channel systems. Now with BOSE beign successfull in their marketing campaign and Thiel beign one of the few speaker companies that still use 4 ohms, the systems are changing towards low current small bookshelf speakers.

It is a shame that BOSE has destroyed their product line with such crap.
---------

If your interested in good sound, you got to start focusing on listening to them. You cant go to a store that has 50 speakers in one room, with a switch to go through them. This is because the unused speakers will act as a perfect sound environment. Couple that with the understanding that speaker placement is one of the most important aspects in sound quality and you will understand why. You need to go to a store that will bring in speakers and change them around.

When you compair speakers sound volume can change and impact the feel of the sound. I also recommend listening to speakers at reasonable sound levels, and even at low volumes. I found that when I bought my Thiels, I stopped listening to music at loud volumes. They were so clear, that I no longer needed a loud volume to hear all of the music.

You will notice that high end speakers dont seem to sound loud as you increase the volume past 80-100db... they just dont produce distortion, and we associate distortion with loud. This is why people who use headphones tend to have problems with their ears... The small speakers in headphones produce exceptional quality sound, and the noise levels often makes it hard to hear the headphones at reasonable levels. The only evidence you will have is the damn ringing sound you will hear for the rest of the day.

You will also find that they wont distort at any volume, and that if you do hit the point they distort, you will find yourself back at the store for replacement cones.

My Thiel CS.5's lowend speakers cost around $150 for replacements, Ive clipped them hard enough... twice:(

If you buy new, I really recommend B&W speaker systems. They are truely amazing value. The systems are amazing at $2k+ for a 5.1 system. No speaker enclosure should be less the 1 cubic foot.

The X-Fi has an amazing sound quality, and will work great with almost any speaker system on the market.

Again... These are home audio systems... Where you sit away from the speakers. Bookshelf speakers should be put on Stands, and not on desks, tables, end tables, mounted on walls etc...
 

halcyon

Splendid
I'm not arguing most of the points you've made, though I don't think they're relevant to this topic. Many that have visited this forum know that I also have multiple types of audio gear myself, some quite specialized...still, that doesn't seem relevant to this discussion.

My point was that the X-Fi only generates 2-channel PCM output digitally. If you have software that decodes Dolby Digital or DTS the X-Fi's S/PDIF will pass that signal through itself . Some of the gear I do have, and I mention it only because of its relevance at this particular time, are an X-Fi connected via coaxial S/PDIF to the Logitech Z-5500s. EAX is enabled which is the only multi-channel output the X-Fi is capable of generating. The X-Fi's multi-channel effects, are only accurately output in multi-channel surround via the card's analog outpouts. I can't explain it any clearer than that. The X-Fi's 2-channel PCM can be upmixed by the decoder in the Z-5500's or my Yamaha HTR-5940 to ProLogic II simulated surround (receiver and Z-5500's) or DTS Neo 6 (on the receiver only, Z-5500's don't have DTS Neo)...again...simulated surround.

Here's how you can verify this. With the X-Fi's software installed, run the X-Fi's THX console calibration and run the speaker calibration. You'll notice that when connected digitally to your receiver you won't get discrete isolated sound to the centers or rear channels. You'll simply get the left and right channels matrixed to centers and rears and you'll hear the left rear when you test the left front channels and the right front when you're sending signal to the right rear channel. Matrixed surround. Not discrete 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1 surround. For stereo music that doesn't much matter, but for Movies, SACD, DVD-A, or any multi-channel encoded source it would be quite important, at least to me.

You'd need a card like the Auzentech Xplosion or Turtle Beach Montego Dolby Digital Live to actually get multi-channel digital output without seperate decoding software.

Hope this helps clarify. If not try Creative's tech support or PM Choirbass or Astrallite. I've done my best to explain.

P.S. Whether or not the idea of computer generated 5.1+ sound is "stupid", as you put it, or not is a matter of personal preference. I use PC generated 5.1 surround, a 5.1 home theater, and an 2.1 PC system. For their intended uses the prescription works fine, none seem "stupid" to me. I must say that the Z-5500's sound neat for personal surround, not better than my home theater system, but of course, I'm not expecting them to.

Edited: ...because I need a lesson in grammar and usage, among other things.
 

GreenJelly

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The noise to signal ratio on the analog outs are amazing... The computing power on card and in your processor will combine to an output that far supasses any inexpensive receiver on the market.

So If you have problems getting an multichannel output, you would probably do allot better with the Analog outs and an Amp.

I just move the machine around too much, and analog outs are a PITA. The setup for Digital output is not easy... I have to play with the settings allot to get it to work right...

Turns out you are right, the back connector is 2 channel only... I need to try the front pannel, digital outs...

I am wrong, sorry

This seems retarded by SB, but it does make some sense (in a twisted way).

The other sound cards you mention, simply dont sound as good... and do not process sound within games at the level the X-Fi does...

There is no other card on the market that sounds better then X-Fi, and that also increases FPS in games.

Shoot, I was running winamp and fear benchmark, compaired to the FEAR only benchmark I received a 15% increase in FPS. (that was on my old system)

Mike
 

halcyon

Splendid
The noise to signal ratio on the analog outs are amazing... The computing power on card and in your processor will combine to an output that far supasses any inexpensive receiver on the market.

So If you have problems getting an multichannel output, you would probably do allot better with the Analog outs and an Amp.

I just move the machine around too much, and analog outs are a PITA. The setup for Digital output is not easy... I have to play with the settings allot to get it to work right...

Turns out you are right, the back connector is 2 channel only... I need to try the front pannel, digital outs...

I am wrong, sorry



This seems retarded by SB, but it does make some sense (in a twisted way).

The other sound cards you mention, simply dont sound as good... and do not process sound within games at the level the X-Fi does...

There is no other card on the market that sounds better then X-Fi, and that also increases FPS in games.

Shoot, I was running winamp and fear benchmark, compaired to the FEAR only benchmark I received a 15% increase in FPS. (that was on my old system)

Mike

It'd be really cool if Creative's successor to the X-Fi would decode Dolby Digital (and have DDL) as well as DTS. ...but the X-Fi's analog out is really strong. I've really enjoyed the X-Fi's and while the Logitech Z-5500's aren't great speakers for a large room...paired with the X-Fi, its a really nice combination for personal use. I don't want to push computer speakers on anyone but I truly enjoy the kit.

Cheers!
 

beeyond

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:?: I have the same? but i thought would have to bump my sound
card to a creative lab X-treme Platium to get the most out of the 505w and the 1010 peak watts Logitech Z-5500

can I get a cheaper sound card that will work but won't work the sound card so hard that I will be looking for another one in a year??????
 

GreenJelly

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The X-Fi sound card series is exceptional because of its processing power.

Sound is based on physics, and can be exceptionally tough to process correctly. This makes very little difference when your cpu isnt doing otherthings. If you use your machine as a workstation, and want to play mp3's and or movies, then their are better soundcards out there.

When you play a game, the physics that are required to process the sound and put it in a 3-D space can be unloaded to the X-Fi. Think of it as a Sound Accelerator.

In games, the sound might need to be passed through a filter. For example a Gunshot that occures on the otherside of a concrete wall should have allot of the highend sound removed. Talking through glass panels is another example.

It has been hard on game developers to create exceptional sound environments without using more processing power. With the multicore processors of today, the sound may eventually be unloaded to one of these cores. However the SoundBlaster X-Fi has a very advanced and fast processor that will handle thousands of different sound sources in 3D space. If you like to play your own music, and turn off the game music, it is amazing how little performance you loose when you switch to the X-Fi.

Infact on my old machine, I would run the Fear test demo and get around 23 fps. I got my X-Fi, because my old computer would bog down if I wanted to play MP3's and games together... I wasnt disapointed...

So when I first got the card installed... I turned on a MP3, tossed in FEAR and did the same fear benchmark and got 26fps.

That is an amazing upgrade for the $89 I paid when I got the X-Fi Music.

I was looking at the Asus DH series Motherboards, and I really wanted a Remote. I decided Id be better off upgrading the X-Fi with a remote, which is like $35 with tax... I wanted a front headphone jack and a Mic jack so I went with the front pannel instead of just the remote.

I am happy...
 

beeyond

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:?: Jollygreen thanks for your info what is yoour take on this system{and anybody else}
I have already purchased I just would like to know where I could of done
with less or more.{other then sound card & speakers}

ATX Mid tower NEMESIS ELITE 1.0
Upgrade power blue aspire atx 550w
lite-on lightScribe super AllWrite DVD 16X
OCZ Tempest CPU cooler
AMD Dual-Core 4800+ 2.4 939 socket
Logitech G5 Laser mouse 2000 DPI
Kingston HyperX Dual Channel 2GB DDR400 unbuffered
ASUS A8N32-SLI Deluxe socket 939 NVIDIA nforce4
XFX Geforce 7900GTX PCI_E
Mitsumi memory card reader 7-in-1 plus Floppy
Windows XP Pro
Seagate 7200.10 250GB SATA 3GB/s 16MB Cache X 2
Monitor 22" 5ms 178/178 .255 adjustable stand 82hz/85hz lcd dvi 2040 X 1650[/img]
 

GreenJelly

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ATX Mid tower NEMESIS ELITE 1.0
Upgrade power blue aspire atx 550w
lite-on lightScribe super AllWrite DVD 16X
OCZ Tempest CPU cooler
AMD Dual-Core 4800+ 2.4 939 socket
Logitech G5 Laser mouse 2000 DPI
Kingston HyperX Dual Channel 2GB DDR400 unbuffered
ASUS A8N32-SLI Deluxe socket 939 NVIDIA nforce4
XFX Geforce 7900GTX PCI_E
Mitsumi memory card reader 7-in-1 plus Floppy
Windows XP Pro
Seagate 7200.10 250GB SATA 3GB/s 16MB Cache X 2
Monitor 22" 5ms 178/178 .255 adjustable stand 82hz/85hz lcd dvi 2040 X 1650[/img]
I hate floppies, I have one in my Toolbox just in case.
Sounds like a good system...

I wouldnt buy another lite-on again... the model I got had a high failure rate. Even after RMA'ing it (it stopped working, and wouldnt read the disks it just burnt) I had a high coaster rate... I gave it to my dad.

Only other thing is the Processor and the MoBo... I hate Asus... but AMD is cool, just not as nice as the core2duo:(

Their is not one single item on the list that I dislike. I run Windows 64, but only because I have a developmental MSDN subscription with Microsoft. I have Windows XP 32 bit on another drive, but I have to re-activate it (by phone). I have no problems with 64, and would recommend it to anyone buying a NEW operating system. Just wait for Vista!
 

eric54

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I have the Logitech Z-5500 setup with the X-FI Platinum. The front panel is the only difference between the extrememusic and the Platinum/Fatal1ty. Both the extrememusic and the platinum have 2mb of "X"RAM, and the other two models have 64mb. This setup is very aurally pleasing. Unless you have a use of the extra imputs and outputs the front panel dont bother. The main reason I bought the platinum was for the headphone jack as opposed to the flexijack that you'll have to swap out if you want to use headphones from the card and not the jack the Z-5500 comes with. As for the xram the support just isnt there to justify it, after all by the time games support ram the odds are creative will have released a new batch of soundcards with all the lineup containing the xram feature. Suffice to say I recommend the extrememusic over the other models unless you want the front panels accessories, worst case scenario is you can buy the front panel later from creative for about the same as the cost difference from the two.
 

paulsaxtonuk

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Hello

I have just got an X-FI notebook card

I want to connect the card to a Bose lifestyle system

I have managed to get the card connected through the headphone jack and then into the bose

However, only 1 channel works, i.e. when I run diagnostics I only hear right channel

Any ideas anyone please?

Cheers

Paul
 

Balthazor

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The newer X-Fi Titanium has Dolby Digital Live for 5.1 encoding over optical out.

Although I personally use analog out, I have both connected to my Z-5500.
 

mikeny

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Eric:

I have the XFI- XM edition, I was planning on doing some upgrades to my gaming system and was thinking of getting the fatality/titanium edition (the one that looks like its encased by a black casing. Should I keep my XM edition? For speakers, I was looking at the 2300, 530, G15 (not the keyboard) and 5500.