New System - Trying to comprehend information

[devolutionary]

Howdy

I'm developing a new system as we speak following a rather spectacular BIOS meltdown (From working to not in 2 seconds flat! It's a world record, and turned out to be completely unrecoverable). This site has been, quite frankly, most wonderful in this regard and while I consider myself a geek of more than amateur standing, I must admit I've never bothered to understand so much of the hardware.

Anyway, I'm gonna build a gaming rig for once, so while I'm on a budget, I'm being careful about what I buy. Where I go wrong is that I plan to overclock a bit, maybe push it to 3Ghz in the future once I've done more research and testing, so I'd like to have that room to maneuver.

Here's the current plan, keeping in mind that HDD and Case are sorted already. It's also worth noting that I am in New Zealand, so any sites you post for cheaper deals will probably be useless to me


Intel C2D E6600
ASUS P5B Deluxe mobo
ThermalTake 600W Toughpower PSU
GeForce 7950GT Graphics

Here's where I hit the brick wall, so to speak. RAM. 2Gb DDR2, I know that much, but then clock speeds and FSB kicks in, along with latency, and my head goes boom. I've tried to make heads and tails from various opinions, but with little success. While I can understand that running 533MHz dual channel without OC would be smart, I seriously don't know if I should get 667 or 800 since I plan to overclock. More to the point, what brands? Some folks say one brand is great, others say it's overpriced. Some places recommend another brand, while this group over here say it implodes at the drop of a hat. I think 4-4-4-12 is better, yeah? But then some folks say that you only ever need 5-5-5-something.

I will say that I was initially eyeing up Corsair 667, but I have never had problems with any Legend branded gear, so that's another option. The main brands I've seen have been ADATA, Transcend, Kingston (but I distrust anything with Value in the model name), Corsair, and Legend.

So basically, I need help, advice, and a good slapping (if so warranted). If you have any suggestions for other parts, that is also welcome, because I can't decide if I should get the P5B, P5W, or DS3 mobos, or hell, even if the 7950 is worth it (it's a great price down here. the X1900s are not). Let's not even touch the PSU, I've had drama with that already

Save the n00b! Save him, oh won't somebody help?

 

[mkaibear]

Buy an X1900XT, it's cheaper and better than the 7950GT (unless you absotively posilutely need HDCP).

I always buy my RAM from Crucial. It may not be as fast as some competing brands, but it's always been reliable, and the one time a stick has died they replaced it with a better stick!

 

[WR2]

Here's where I hit the brick wall, so to speak. RAM. 2Gb DDR2, I know that much, but then clock speeds and FSB kicks in, along with latency, and my head goes boom. I've tried to make heads and tails from various opinions, but with little success. While I can understand that running 533MHz dual channel without OC would be smart

Hey! It's really OK to read the last part first if you want.
But you maybe closer to climbing over that brick wall into the Enlightenment than you realize.
You probably already know the stock FSB runs @ 266Mhz (quad pumped 266*4=1066Mhz)
And that the E6600 CPU has a multipler (locked) of 9 so that 9*266Mhz gets you the stock E6600 speed of 2.4Ghz.
So that "running 533 dual channel without OC" means the RAM is at the ideal 1:1 ratio with the FSB (533 divided by 2=266Mhz). (The "533MHz" RAM is actually running at 266Mhz but transfering two data blocks per clock cycle so it's called "533 DDR2" - sneaky, huh?)
When you go to overclock your E6600 to 3.0Ghz you'll do that by pushing the FSB from 266Mhz to 333Mhz (333*9=3.0Ghz). To get the ideal 1:1 RAM/FSB ratio @ 333 you would want 667 DDR2 RAM. And from there you can probably see that DDR2 800 would be the ideal 1:1 ratio for a 400Mhz FSB (and a 3.6Ghz E6600 overclock).
So what happens when you have 667DDR2 or 800DDR2 in a 266Mhz FSB?
667DDR2 (333MHz) RAM would need a 5:4 ratio (266*5/4=333)
800DDR2 (400MHz) RAM would need a 3:2 ratio (266*3/2=400)
Now what happens when you have 667DDR2 or 800DDR2 in a 333Mhz FSB?
667DDR2 (333MHz) RAM would have that ideal 1:1 ratio & 800DDR2 RAM would need a 5:4 ratio (832MHz) & this would mean overclocking the RAM a bit.
Is not having an ideal 1:1 RAM/FSB ratio a problem. Probably not - its very common. But having the 1:1 ratio is often considered "more stable". But hey, who ever said overclockers were stable? And the possible combinations of RAM/FSB are not limited to just 266/333/400/533 & 533/667/800/1067 especially if you have a motherboard with very flexible BIOS settings.

Now Cas Latency - it maybe enough to know that lower is better (CL4 vs CL5 for example). This in no way implies that CL5 is bad!
If that isnt enough info you may want to know that CAS Latency (CL) is the time (in number of clock cycles) that elapses after the memory controller sends a request to read a memory location and before the data is sent to the module's output pins. Need more details? Google is your friend or you can browser the THG Forum sticky topic on Memory: Memory FAQ

So what do you choose?? Higher Frequency (800DDR2 vs 533DDR2) over Tighter Timings (CL4 vs CL5)? And what does it mean in practical terms?
THG Article: "Pushing your RAM to the MAX" Conclusion:
"By and large, we are convinced that the step from DDR-533 to DDR2-667 makes sense when timing settings remain comfortably fast (Corsair). But DDR2-800 confers only minimal additional performance gains, and at DDR2-1066 the further reduction in timing settings provides little room for improvement. The price increases for these faster chips are proportionately much higher than the performance benefits they deliver.
For business applications, installing faster DDR2 DIMMs isn't cost justifiable, and even gung-ho gamers will find that the extra money pays
better dividends if invested in a high-end graphics card. Either way, we recommend a big name vendor, because they invest more in the testing and validation of new products."

THG review: "Tight Timings vs High Clock Frequencies" Conclusion
"The bottom line is that as long as you have enough memory - preferably 2 GB - the extra money you pay for more memory speed would be better invested in a faster graphics card. And if you don't play games, then the CPU and hard drive offer more room for improvement than the memory."

DDR2 RAM prices have spiked lately. But the range between 533DDR2 and 800DDR can be as little as $50 for CL4 2GB kits.
Example price/speed comparison

After all that how do you decide? (read this first)
First you check the QVL (qualified vendors list) for the motherboard - your ASUS P5B Deluxe
Keep in mind that if you find a QV part you can use that as a guide to know that another RAM manufacturer that used the same DRAM, with the same CL, same voltage specs should work equally well. They don't test every RAM module out there for the QVL list. But when possible use the QVL suggestions.
Second you decide how far you want to be able to overclock your system (now or in the future). 266Mhz FSB (no overclock) 333Mhz, 400Mhz, 533Mhz. (Keeping in mind that not every MB/CPU/RAM combo will reach 400Mhz and some wont even reach 333).
Third you compare prices. Get the lowest CL you can afford for the overclock target you set. It seems 800DDR2 with CL 4-4-4-12 is the most often recommeded type.
Finally do a reality check. Do you get a better payoff buying that expensive RAM, or would it be better buying less expensive RAM and getting the next higher CPU or GPU model?

Disclaimer: Your mileage may vary - like opinions. I don't consider myself any type of expert, just reasonably well informed.
Sharp eyed readers may have noticed that the reviews above where with other than C2D CPUs. But other sources seem to support the conclusions when C2Ds are evaluated.
XbitLabs review: Choosing the Right Memory for Core 2 Duo Platform - Part 1
XbitLabs review: Choosing the Right Memory for Core 2 Duo Platform - Part 2

 

[devolutionary]

Awesome, thanks for the help. I decided on the 7950GT, since it's only $10 more, is 512Mb (and so could be more handy in the future), and I'd feel a little dirty changing both my CPU brand and graphics brand in one hit

I picked up some G.SKILL DDR2 667 as well, if only because it gives me room to overclock to the point that I'm comfortable (I am new at this, after all) without losing any efficiency. It's also affordable right now, and hey! DDR 800 may be cheaped in a year or two when I'm happier with OC'ing.

Appreciate the advice. I think I'm finally understanding all this mumbo-jumbo