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300$ upgrade

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October 3, 2006 8:47:46 PM

i finally mustered up enough money for an upgrade, here are my current specs

4ghz celeron
1 gb DDR400
X1600pro
sound blaster live 24bit
80gb IDE HDD

i have a pretty small LCD screen because i don't have enough money to buy a bigger one, so my max resolution that i can play on is 1024X764. i was thinking about getting an x1900xt but i thought that it would be over kill for playing games at that low of a resolution, i also was thinking that i should upgrade my sound card to a audigy 2zs or my proc to a dual core. either way im looking for the most features and performance upgrade that i can get for my 300$. does any one have any suggestions?

More about : 300 upgrade

October 3, 2006 8:58:07 PM

Quote:
i finally mustered up enough money for an upgrade, here are my current specs

4ghz celeron
1 gb DDR400
X1600pro
sound blaster live 24bit
80gb IDE HDD

i have a pretty small LCD screen because i don't have enough money to buy a bigger one, so my max resolution that i can play on is 1024X764. i was thinking about getting an x1900xt but i thought that it would be over kill for playing games at that low of a resolution, i also was thinking that i should upgrade my sound card to a audigy 2zs or my proc to a dual core. either way im looking for the most features and performance upgrade that i can get for my 300$. does any one have any suggestions?


You got a celeron at 4ghz? Damn, musta been really squeezing the life out of that thing. I would go for a E6300 C2D and a new motherboard, preferably this one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...

Comes to about 270, not including taxes and shipping.

Good luck :D 
October 3, 2006 9:05:59 PM

yeah a new core duo 2 would be great but my crappy x1600pro wouldn't do it much justice. i was looking at getting that 90$ and over clocking it like i did with my celeron and getting a 1900gt or something
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October 3, 2006 9:07:43 PM

Your x1600pro is fine, it will support current games on the market. I would be more worried about adding more ram after the motherboard and processor upgrade. To tell you the truth, you might have to change up the ram too, being its DDR2 i think. Not entirely sure though.
October 3, 2006 9:14:09 PM

the x1600 does alright in older games, but in games like oblivion and FEAR it just doesn't have enough muscle to keep the FPS up. i think that it is the weakest part of my system, i also think that the fact that im using dd400 ram might be slowing down my system. i would have to upgrade to DDR2 if i decide to get a C2D, and that might go over my 300$ budget. the asus board i have is great at overclocking so getting a current p4 daul core over clocking it looks promising. but in the end its the video card that im most worried about
October 3, 2006 9:41:38 PM

Quote:


You got a celeron at 4ghz? Damn, musta been really squeezing the life out of that thing.


A friend of mine bought a 351 Celeron for like 20 bucks on an open box clearance thing at Comp USA and we messed around with it for a day. Have a couple screenshots of 5ghz with air cooling. It did pretty well in games at 4.85 and was pretty fun to screw around with.

[/img]Celeron 356 @ 4.8 right here. Think they could get higher since we hit 5.0 with a 351.
October 3, 2006 9:43:09 PM

I don't suggest an upgrade. Save up the money for a totally new PC.
October 3, 2006 10:03:36 PM

If you've managed to get that CPU clock speed out of the motherboard that you're currently using, then there's abolsutely no reason to get a new CPU. Keep in mind, all you smart people telling him to go C2D and get a new motherboard, that he needs to buy DDR2 if he's going to...um...put RAM into his computer. Unless he gets one of the high-quality (sarcastic) Core 2 Duo motherboards that for some reason support DDR. That means an e6300 and CRAPPY DDR2 with a sub-par mobo, or an e6300 with sub-par RAM and a CRAPPY mobo. Neither choice is good.

Totally new PC? Well I would say no.

If you're running a Celeron at 4Ghz, you hardly need a processor upgrade. That thing will play any current or upcoming game you throw at it, provided you've got a video card to match it. These days you can spend very little on a CPU and maybe a little under twice as much on a video card and play any game on max settings. I should know, I can play any current game running a stock X2 3800+ (half the speed of that Celeron) that I bought for $153 along with a 7900 GT KO Superclocked from eVga that I bought for about $290.

In today's gaming, the most stress is on the video card, not the CPU.
October 3, 2006 10:22:33 PM

Core 2 Duo E6300: $180
and
ASRock 775Dual-VSTA: $56

Total: $236

The motherboard has 2 DDR slots, 2 DDR2 slots, an AGP slot, and a PCIe slot. You can reuse your RAM, and your video card. Your X1600, while not top of the line, isn't terrible, and it should run all games that come out between now and when DX10 cards come out. If anything, you save your money to upgrade the video card when DX10 comes out.
October 3, 2006 10:29:14 PM

The PCI express slot on that horrible motherboard is PCIe x4, which is a terrible choice to use with his PCIe x16 video card. The backwards compatability of PCI only works one way - the slot must be BIGGER than the card to work properly, never smaller. The PCI express x4 slot on that mobo will FIT his video card...but he'll be running it as if he was using an x4 slot. That's LOWER performance than he had before. Plus he's paying for an AGP slot...wtf?

That board you recommended is probably worse than his old one.
October 3, 2006 10:34:57 PM

Quote:
I don't suggest an upgrade. Save up the money for a totally new PC.


I agree.
October 3, 2006 10:38:53 PM

Quote:
The PCI express slot on that horrible motherboard is PCIe x4, which is a terrible choice to use with his PCIe x16 video card. The backwards compatability of PCI only works one way - the slot must be BIGGER than the card to work properly, never smaller. The PCI express x4 slot on that mobo will FIT his video card...but he'll be running it as if he was using an x4 slot. That's LOWER performance than he had before. Plus he's paying for an AGP slot...wtf?

That board you recommended is probably worse than his old one.


I Disagree

6% loss in 3DMark05 isn't what I'd call a huge difference. Basically, going from 9,300 to 9,100. And that's with a 7900GT, which needs a lot more bandwidth than his X1600. With his current video card, he won't see a performance difference.
October 3, 2006 10:47:58 PM

i thought that maybe getting a dual core with a bigger cache might be better than a high clocked single core celeron, yeah i don't thinking getting a new pc since i don't really thing that my system is really that bad to call for a compel et upgrade,all i got is 300$ and i wanted to know what was the best performance feature upgrade that i could get with, im really looking a an audigy 2 zs, my sound blaster live has been working fine, but a pretty new sound card ain't never hurt nobody, if i do get a new sound card. here are some of the options I've come up with.

audigy 2zs + x1900gt= 270$

Pentium D 805 + x1900gt = 280$

x1900xt=250$

all of these parts and prices i got from newegg.com which is were i plan on making my buy, any thoughts?
October 3, 2006 10:48:06 PM

Sounds like a sound enthusiast. If that's the case, and you really want that sound card, go with the x1900gt and the sound card. The video card is a good step up, and I still can see you running games just fine with that 4Ghz Celeron.

I don't get it, "angry ducky", mostly because you only posted "I disagree" in reference to my entire post. (with a link!)

There's a drop in performance running a PCIe x16 card in a 4x slot...I don't understand the logic of getting that motherboard when he'll be running his video card slower (a slight difference, bit definitely slower). It's a dead-end choice that'll lead him into buying a new board sooner. A couple hundred 3Dmarks in 3dMark06 means something to the people makng these decisions.

Some people don't know how to read charts. With any motherboard running a Core 2 Duo processor, you'd better hope you're getting well over 3500 3D Marks in '06. That difference of about 300 marks (being generous) means a lot when you factor out those large numbers that we all should take for granted.

Buy a new computer? Maybe for the people who can afford it it's a valid choice. Read the OP's first sentence.
October 3, 2006 10:53:05 PM

No way with that 4x pic express bull carp, i originally bought (with out knowing) a ECS mother board that had pic-X 4x, the performance was horrible, games were completely unplayable, i quickly returned it and swichted it for my asus board that ass real pic express x16 and performance was a whole lot better. i don't care what any benchmarks or article tells me, I'm never touching a 4x pic express board again.
October 3, 2006 10:58:37 PM

Well that board that angry ducky suggested most likely runs PCIe x16 cards a lot better than that ECS. But yes, the point you and I have both made is that there is a drop in performance using a PCIe x16 video card in a PCIe x4 slot.

When your Celeron actually gets too weak, then you can go ahead and to the upgrade of CPU, mobo, and RAM. Happy saving, I know what it's like.
October 3, 2006 11:02:24 PM

Quote:
i thought that maybe getting a dual core with a bigger cache might be better than a high clocked single core celeron, yeah i don't thinking getting a new pc since i don't really thing that my system is really that bad to call for a compel et upgrade,all i got is 300$ and i wanted to know what was the best performance feature upgrade that i could get with, im really looking a an audigy 2 zs, my sound blaster live has been working fine, but a pretty new sound card ain't never hurt nobody, if i do get a new sound card. here are some of the options I've come up with.

audigy 2zs + x1900gt= 270$

Pentium D 805 + x1900gt = 280$

x1900xt=250$

all of these parts and prices i got from newegg.com which is were i plan on making my buy, any thoughts?


Forget about upgrading the sound card; unless you have great speakers, you won't be able to tell the difference.

Forget the Pentium D 805, as you'll take a performance hit going from your Celeron, unless you overclock the D805 very high (around 4GHz).

Also, you might need a new motherboard, as some of the older ones don't support dual-core CPUs.

Your video card is still okay; that's why I recommended the new CPU and motherboard. You'll get good performance, and be able to reuse your RAM. Save your money for when DX10 video cards come out.

Quote:
With any motherboard running a Core 2 Duo processor, you'd better hope you're getting well over 3500 3D Marks in '06.


WRONG. If I paired a Core 2 Duo with my X600 (first VGA for PCIe!), I'd be lucky to get 1,000 on 3DMark06. FTW, the 3DMark06 fell by about 300 points, which is nothing to get worked up over.

Like I said before, his X1600 will show less of a performance difference, because it uses less bandwidth than the 7900GT.
October 3, 2006 11:10:08 PM

Maybe I was stupid to assume that other people had the brains to buy a decent graphics card and spend less on a CPU, like I've been saying this whole time. Plus using the e6300 you probably have DDR2 RAM (which are aren't, seeing your motherboard) if you're smart. Where are you pulling these numbers from? Dare I look?

EDIT: I looked at the THG CPU charts. They don't have the e6300, so I moved up a bit to the e6400. It scores just under 2000 in CPU and just under 6000 for GPU, which sounds like a very nice score to me. Of course this is with an x1900xt and the CPU is better...but will the 3DMark06 score drop 7000 in that jump? Hard to believe.

Seriously, you're proving that point citing use of an x600? Give me a break.
October 3, 2006 11:18:33 PM

i thought x1600pro would be able to handle all of my games pretty well when a bought it, but when i actually got it running it was pretty much disappointed with it. I've considered that my system could be the problem with my systems, but i think that a new graphics card would boast up my performance more than getting a a C2D, if i had to go with a x1600pro with a c2d to a 4ghz celeron with a x1900gt, i would take the celeron and the x1900gt.

this is coming from a owner of a x1600pro this card sucks, it just doesn't have the muscle to run todays games, i would have been better off getting a x800gto, and ANY card that has real 12pixel pipe lines (not this 4 pipe lines with 3 pixel shaders thing) is an upgrade
a b U Graphics card
October 3, 2006 11:45:01 PM

Quote:
but i think that a new graphics card would boast up my performance more than getting a a C2D,


yes
October 3, 2006 11:55:31 PM

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I've heard bad things about the x1600 myself. Of course, it at least is capable of RUNNING 3DMark06 with high settings, as opposed to, say, the x600.

http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html?modelx=33&m...


High settings with an awful score. 3DMark scores are worhtless. It's in-game performance that really matters, and yeah, those X1600s are a big disappointment.

I think you'd be better off saving your money, and upgrading everything. But, if you must upgrade now, you'll see your biggest performance boost by upgrading your GPU.
October 4, 2006 12:04:36 AM

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I have to agree and say you need a whole new system. Celerons are Intels worste CPU. You may have yours up to 4 GHz but my old P4 oced to 2.1 Ghz could probably out perform it. I don't know what intel was thinking when they developed that CPU.


They call them celerons because once you buy one you'll want to "sell er on" to someone else.
a b U Graphics card
October 4, 2006 12:05:42 AM

:lol: 
a b U Graphics card
October 4, 2006 12:07:57 AM

Quote:
I have to agree and say you need a whole new system. Celerons are Intels worste CPU. You may have yours up to 4 GHz but my old P4 oced to 2.1 Ghz could probably out perform it. I don't know what intel was thinking when they developed that CPU.


A 4GHz Celeron D would beat out a stock 3.0GHz P4E based on these reviews:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/celeron-d_...
http://www.sharkyextreme.com/hardware/cpu/article.php/3...

The X1600 pro is by far weaker in gaming than such a massively OC'ed Celeron. I'd go for a GPU upgrade.
October 4, 2006 12:22:38 AM

Quote:
Maybe I was stupid to assume that other people had the brains to buy a decent graphics card and spend less on a CPU, like I've been saying this whole time.


:evil:  How DARE you insult my grapihcs card!

Quote:
Plus using the e6300 you probably have DDR2 RAM (which are aren't, seeing your motherboard) if you're smart.


I'm using a socket 939 Athlon 64, thank you. Unfortunately, socket 939 is not compatible with DDR2 RAM.

Quote:
Where are you pulling these numbers from? Dare I look?


I made an educated guess. My computer can't finish 3DMark06; maybe it's a problem with the hardware; if it is, I don't care, as I'm happy just to have a working computer.

An X600 with an E6300 would definately not score more than 1,000 points on '06. The highest score in '06 with an X600 is 569, and that's with an Athlon 64 3000+. A Core 2 Duo would probably give a small boost, but nothing more than 50 points or so.

Nonetheless, I'd still go for the ASRock board, as it allows him to upgrade to Core 2 Duo and reuse his current RAM, benchmark scores be dammed.
October 4, 2006 12:48:37 AM

Ok that's pretty funny Kaotao

It's true 3DMark scores aren't everything, but they're pretty close. It's best to look more at the gaming benchmarks in this case, but if you do take the time to do that you'll see my conclusion again.

Like I said, if that Sell-er-on is still able to achieve max settings in current games when paired with a decent graphics card, I would go for a decent graphics card. If your Celeron starts to falter, that's when it's time for the 'ol CPU mobo RAM upgrade.

ducky if I can direct you to the only x600pro left on Newegg that one reviewer says he scored just under 1000 with a Pentium D 820 and the x600pro. I sure hope you'll do better with a processor costing $70 more.

I understand that YOU don't have DDR2, but you most likely would if you were running an e6300 with the x600pro, which was the hypothetical situation you created.
October 4, 2006 12:58:28 AM

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Ok that's pretty funny Kaotao

Like I said, if that Sell-er-on is still able to achieve max settings in current games when paired with a decent graphics card, I would go for a decent graphics card. If your Celeron starts to falter, that's when it's time for the 'ol CPU mobo RAM upgrade.


That's more or less what I meant here

Quote:
I think you'd be better off saving your money, and upgrading everything. But, if you must upgrade now, you'll see your biggest performance boost by upgrading your GPU.
October 4, 2006 1:00:38 AM

I was laughing at the Sell-er-on joke. I hope that's how it came off.
October 4, 2006 12:13:30 PM

The best alternative is to upgrade the graphics card. I'd get X1900 XT with 256mb RAM or X1900 GT for PCI-E or something like X850 XT, Gforce 7600 GT or Gforce 7800 GS for AGP. All of these are in the 200-300$ range. Then there's this Geforce 7950 GT which is described in today's Tomshardware's article.
October 4, 2006 12:48:58 PM

You realize that my x850xt can keep up with a 1900gt as far as FPS goes, if I were you, I would stick to the x1900xt 256, or the 7900GTO as both are a much better value then the gt.
October 4, 2006 1:32:57 PM

From the reviews appears that he would be better with Sempron or A64.

Maybe overclocked Venice with new board is the answer? :?
October 4, 2006 2:20:47 PM

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I was laughing at the Sell-er-on joke. I hope that's how it came off.
:) 
October 4, 2006 2:23:58 PM

Since you are into OC'ing, get yourself a eVGA 7900GTO. From what I've read, they are the GTX version with a slower memory clock speed but one can OC this very easily from 1320 stock to 1600 as many have done so already.

Plus, I did a little Video Card Price/Perf Analysis. It isn't perfect, but I believe it gets the point across.

All for $252
October 4, 2006 3:58:42 PM

The GTO is definately a good alternative to the 1900xt. Both are great though. At this point, it comes down to brand preference. I chose AMD and ATI because it is what I know (and was cheap) But I will definately be considering the GTO for my next upgrade (if needed b4 DX10)
October 8, 2006 3:36:34 PM

mpilchfamily theirs no way a 2.1 ghz could beat a 4ghz celeron, celerons are just cut down p4's, they have a smaller L2 chache and they dont have HT, thats it. if you would compare a p4 and a celeron clocked at the same speed the p4 is going to beat it, but saying that a celeron overclocked to 4ghz is worse that a 2.1ghz P4 is a no no

i did think about getting an x850xt but depending on wtach article you look it the x850xt would keep up with a 1900gt sometimes, but in other article is had trouble keeping up with a x1800gto, so i didn't want to get disapointed again so ima play it safe with the x1900gt.[/quote]
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