Life is About Timing ... Is Now the Time to Build High End?

[Maxheadshot]

This marks a difficult time in the home built system crowd. Starting with processors, the Core 2 Duo has been out for less that two months, and Intel have already promised quad-core for mid-November. They tell us the 975X and 965P chipsets will support quad-core with a BIOS flash but what about those who shy away from CrossFire supported boards?

There are very few options for SLI (nVidia) supporters in the Core 2 Duo mobo line. Sure, Asus is releasing the nForce 590 chipset now, which will have robust support for the Core 2 Duo but won't have quad-core support without the Intel MCP55 chipset due out in November. So, if you prefer the thermal profile, performance and price of SLI (all of which currently lead the charts), and want the added luxury of being able to drop in a Kentsfield later on (thus improving the longevity of your system), you must wait. For those who pulled the trigger on a Core 2 Duo, the recent press release announcing the quad-core must have been horrible. Additional research shows the quad-core extreme wil be released at the same price point the current X6800 is currently selling at --- and the quad will be released NEXT month.

Add to that the change in graphics standard as the gaming population collectively hold their breath in anticipation of Vista and DX10 cards, there is even more reason to wait. But just how long can one keep the money from buring a hole in their pockets. From a personal perspective, that is very, very difficult.

I have a aging system that still runs the 9800XT on an AMD 3500 platform. Though solid, a system such as this in little to nothing in comparison to todays high-end systems. For me, the reasons to upgrade (completely rebuild) are numerous but, again, "life is about timing" and I am just not sure this is the time to do that.

Should I pull the trigger now? Should I wait until late November to upgrade (since I stand squarely in the SLI corner)? I'm curious what you are thinking as a fellow home built computer practitioner.

 

[godman]

1) sli isnt worth it...nor is crossfire. get a 1950xtx or7950gx2 and be happy

2)if you want to build a top of the line pc id definatly suggest waiting until core 2 quatro is released. Younger core 2 duo models will also drop in price soon (next year) when the cheaper quad core variant from intel is released.

cheaper cpus for the maintream :mrgreen:

3)most, if not all, 965p motherboards are kentsfield drop in compatible just need to flash the bios.

4)i am gettin core 2 duo in a few days (been waiting almost a month for delivery :twisted: ) and i am not very dissappionted about the quad core release yet..yet! Mainly because i dont have the money and many do not, so it does not matter to the majority of users here, perhaps they will buy e6600s and the like but only a few have bought x6800s (although i know a few).

5) if you want a dx10 card yes you must wait, but if you want the best performance atm then go out and buy a 19050xtx or 7950gx2, if you wanna awit and perhaps save some money get a cheaper card that'll do for around half a year...

 

[chased13]

expect less of an a performance increase in quad core. its the same tech as what we have now, just 2 strapped together.

id say a month ago was the time for highend because of ram prices.

i would never recommend more than 300$ on a video card.

get 2gb of ram, drop 2 more gb in when vista comes.



now aint bad though, think of quad core as an updated core 2 duo, dont think of it as this new great thing, like core 2 duo was. its not a new framework.

by high end i hope you dont me x6800 as a 6600 can be ocd like crazy anyways.

god man has a good point. dont bother with sli. price/performance sux to bad, and dx10 is comming. id recommend an x1900xt and then get a new dx10 card

 

[Maxheadshot]

Ahhhh, good thoughts, especially regarding the SLI bit. I appreciate the input on the ATI options but I just want to go with nVidia. From everything I've read, they run better, quieter, draw less power, and maintain a lower thermal profile. It just seems as if they are further down the road (in development) that Radeon right now -- I like the sound of that, not only in general feel but from an empirical standpoint.

But truth be told, it all comes down to foward thinking chipsets. And since I maintain my hold on the nVidia line, I'm stuck waiting for mid-November at the earliest (nforce 590). Thanks again!

 

[commanderspockep]

I have yet to see a reason to go Multi core. 90% of all applications and games do not suport multi core.

Really?? You have yet to see a reason? Not one? Can you explain the improved benchmarks with multi core systems? Or can you explain why Toms and other hardware sites reccomend core 2 duo? What about multitasking?

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2021981,00.asp

DX10 and compatible video cards a do early next year.

As long as you have a pci-e slot your DX10 card should run fine. And I don't see DX9 cards being taken off the market for a long time anyways.

Bottom line the only valid reasons I see for waiting are:

1. A quadro chip is a must have for you. You really want it or need it.
2. To see what kind of price drops we see in the core 2 duo line or the AMD chips still around.
3. You don't want to get stuck with a non upgradeable MB. (And thats iffy because most core 2 duo boards will be compatible with quadro)

 

[sillywabbit]

Don't forget, when/if you decide to upgrade to quad core and a DX 10 compliant video card, you will also need to upgrade your home electrical wiring :x

 

[lunyone]

I agree, ram pricing right now is too expensive. I would buy a C2D right now and a x1900gt or x1900xt and wait for a stable and reliable Dx10 video card next summer. That is what I would do if I was upgrading right now.

My 2cp

 

[Dr_asik]

I don't see any reason for waiting other than the usual: better stuff coming out later. With that reasoning, you'll never buy a computer.

The first generation of DX10 cards is likely to be not really optimized and I'd rather buy a top-of-the-line DX9 card then wait until DX10 comes out, the dust settles, the companies optimize their shit, then buy a trusted DX10 card, that means in 2 years at least which is the time of a regular upgrade. So the coming of DX10 doesn't change anything really. All DX9 cards will do FINE with Windows Vista, plus you won't necessarly upgrade to it the day it hits the shelves. Windows XP is cool.

I don't think your preference for nVidia is very rational; you'd be missing on some extremely potent graphic cards such as the Radeon X1900XT. nVidia cards such as the 7900GT have had their load of problems too and you seriously should consider all cards indivually instead of generalizing. I'd personally take an X1950XTX against ANY other card on the market, aside from price considerations.

RAM may be expensive right now but that doesn't mean it'll get cheaper anytime soon. We were expecting price drops on the X1800XT with the release of the X1950, and actually the prices skyrocketed.

Quad cores is to the Core 2 duo the same thing as the X2 was to the Athlon 64: marketing bullshit. It is architecturally the same as the previous and doesn't function as a true dual-dual-core processor, but as two dual-core processors akwardly stuck together.

 

[commanderspockep]

It is architecturally the same as the previous and doesn't function as a true dual-dual-core processor, but as two dual-core processors akwardly stuck together.

This is not entirely true. In specific applications (HD video for one) there is a big improvement. And if you look at the benchmarks around, there is a difference. Although the big question is will it be worth the price, which is still unknown.

 

[Dr_asik]

You may be right: I'm generally refering to gaming peformance.

 

[Sunburn]

I don't see any reason for waiting other than the usual: better stuff coming out later. With that reasoning, you'll never buy a computer.

Very true. Except that prices drop when the new stuff comes out. When the first Quadro chip comes out, Intel has announced *it* will occupy the $999 slot in the market, and I expect all the other chips to drop down a notch or so. IIRC Quadro is supposed to come out this month (October). I would sure feel like a douche if I bought a E6600 today for $325 then next month it drops in price to $225 or somesuch. Which it appears it may do. That $100 bucks can be spent otherwise, like an upgrade from X1900XT to X1900XTX, a better monitor or case or moboard or psu or all four. If you're only spending $1000 on a C2D build you realise when you hit =sum(a1:a10) in Excel just how far another $100 will get you.

As for RAM... there is no light at the end of the tunnel. IMO anyway. IMO you just need to suck it up and blow $300 on quality 2GB. This is of course speculation. Buying RAM or not right now is like speculating on the stock market. Will prices rise or fall? I have no idea, until DDR3 comes out at which point we all expect DDR2 prices to fall, though it's entirely possible DDR2 prices will remain fixed and DDR3 will be ridiculously expensive.

Waiting a few weeks for C2D prices to adjust is a good idea. Waiting a few months for RAM to adjust is a bad idea. Waiting a frikking year for video cards to adjust is a terrible idea. I don't care what Billy G has up his sleeve with DbuttseX10, he's not going to obsolete the X1900XT by January 2007 or January 2008 for that matter. A 40-man raid on Ironforge with a hijacked dragon will be just as spectacular.

I don't think your preference for nVidia is very rational; you'd be missing on some extremely potent graphic cards such as the Radeon X1900XT. nVidia cards such as the 7900GT have had their load of problems too and you seriously should consider all cards indivually instead of generalizing. I'd personally take an X1950XTX against ANY other card on the market, aside from price considerations.

I agree more here. I don't see any price segment where nVidia is the clear winner. Neither does, ah, Tom. In fact I would argue that ATI owns in every price/performance segment, unless you're sick in the head and want to spend $1000 on your video card arrangement for an extra 5 FPS, in which case I will yield not based on evidence but my lack of experience being sick in the head/spending $1000 on video cards.

 

[Maxheadshot]

...unless you're sick in the head and want to spend $1000 on your video card arrangement for an extra 5 FPS, in which case I will yield not based on evidence but my lack of experience being sick in the head/spending $1000 on video cards.

Hahahah, that is a good point. I think my recent windfall has me lingering in the "sick in the head" camp. However, all make compelling arguments for not waiting.

I care not about RAM prices for the very reason stated above. Such is life in the big city and there is little to nothing I can do about it -- other than speculation with dollars and time. So, for me, that is NOT an issue. The Radeon vs. nVidia battle lingers because of SLI and that bleeding edge performance it offers. But, truth be told, I wouldn't go dual-vid-card anyway because of the impending DX10 release. So, now it comes down to the best single card solution. Speaking of DX10, I won't be buying a first-gen DX10 card nor upgrading to Vista until after the first service pack is released (my standard operating procedure) -- which puts that expense month (if you a year) down the road.

My biggest concern is selecting the correct chipset for my mobo. I don't want to be stuck with an old chipset with dies too quickly. So, lets say for a moment, I go with a chipset which will currently run Radeon and can upgrade (via BIOS flash) to the quad-core.

Of the 975X or the 965P chipset, which do you think will be the more forward looking chipset of the two?

 

[7h3_7ru7h]

Personally, I'm waiting on Vista and DX10. Now would be a decent time to build a budget rig, as regular DDR RAM is pretty cheap, and so are 939 CPUs and MoBo's. For a high-end PC however, you're better waiting for new tech that's sure to be released in the scramble for Vista capable hardware.

 

[Maxheadshot]

Personally, I'm waiting on Vista and DX10. Now would be a decent time to build a budget rig, as regular DDR RAM is pretty cheap, and so are 939 CPUs and MoBo's. For a high-end PC however, you're better waiting for new tech that's sure to be released in the scramble for Vista capable hardware.

Yes, while that is true I'm intending to go moderately high end, waiting on Vista and DX10 will just wear a hole in my patience. Dates pushed back, snafu's in coding, service packs and such, are all the things early Vista adopters will encounter. I think waiting for the dust to settle on Vista and DX10 will take far too long and just isn't in my arena.

However, after considering all the options and opinion here, I've made my decision. It seems to me, there are many things happening in mid-November (with the 590 Intel chipset being released and the first retail Quad Core systems), when all is said and done, that seems like the best time to pull the trigger.

To build now would be doing so in a vacuum of information. Though some have said if you wait for this or that, you'll always be waiting (and traditionally I've given the same advice), I don't think that is the case right now. With the Kentsfield announcement (unexpected and right behind the Core 2 Duo), things are unsettled. The smoke should clear in late November and I'll be building this dream machine just prior to Christmas. Thanks again for the solid opinions. Great stuff.

 

[juvealert]

when is vista coming out ?!!

 

[yakyb]

January i beleive

in reply to the original post i feel that waiting would be the best option. perhaps upgrading your gpu to a current midrange would be an option then going dx 10 when the time comes would minimise outlay for a good beneit
what company was it again that gave you a 90 day upgrade option on graphics cards? this way you could buy a gpu now and put it in your machine. run that for a couple of months then comes christmas(or january sales) get yourself a new box (with improoved gpu after using 90 day upgrade option) and then place your old gpu back in your current comp.

on the other hand i run a similar system to you but with a 6800GT as opposed to a 9800xt and it runs fine i plan on no upgrade for at least 8-12 months (altho will be hard to maintain when every one else is playing crysis at dx10 and full res)

 

[miffy]

Well the way I see it you have to weigh up the amount of time spent sitting in front of your machine and and really strecthing it's legs. I had P4 3ghz and a Radeon 9800pro for about a year which was really struggiling with the games I play

I decided that I don't use my machine as much anymore, I used to be a hardcore gamer, SWG, Guildwars, Eve Online, and loads of other FPS online. So a few weeks ago, after weighing up the odds I decided to upgrade to 1 generatation behind, with all the price drops on the s939 I picked up a 4000+ CPU x1900Gt and new motherboard for just under £330. Now I'd say that was a medium-high rig, it runs every game I play now, Sh3 - HL2 EP1, BF2 and a few others with max settings AA + AF at 1024x1280 for a really cheap price, it means that for the next year I can enjoy playing my games and with great graphics but it allows to sit back and see what happens in the component / software world and make the best choice for my needs. You can chat on forums all day asking what's the best component to buy but at the end of the day it's down to you to sensibly decide what's the best rig for you. It's just an added complication that new tech has come out recently, whatever you get it's going to be a mass improvement over what you have already, so from that stand point you can't be disappointed.