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Scanners and Windows 2000

Last response: in Computer Peripherals
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April 24, 2004 2:03:29 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.scanners,alt.comp.periphs.scanner,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

Hi,

I'm having some troubles with my scanners...

HW setup:
PC + Adaptec 1542CF + Adaptec 2904
Acer (now BenQ) ScanWit 2720S Filmscanner
Microtek Phantom 336 Flatbed
Both scanners connected to the 1542CF, film scanner first, then flatbed.
then terminator.

Both working flawlessly when I run with WinNT 4.0 (SP6a).
Apparently there is no HW problem (?).

However...
running W2k SP4 I can't get them to work properly.
Both devices are detected properly and I installed the latest
drivers.

But when I try to scan anything (no matter which scanner) they
start doing so, e.g. the film scanner is focussing, but after a while
the procedure stops and some time later I get a timeout and the scnner
isn't recognised anymore. After a power cycle the scanner regains
consciousness and I can again start scanning but it hangs at the same
step as before.

What I've tried so far:

*) Removed all TWAIN drivers
*) Removed all SW that uses ASPI (surprisingly many)
*) Tried about a half dozen different ASPI layers
*) Tried TWAIN dll's from twain.org
*) Removed one scanner (tried each) from SCSI chain

And of course I have installed/uninstalled the drivers at all stages
and rebooted every time. Also I made sure that when uninstalling the
files really disappear (quite often there are leftovers) and that the
registry is clean (?).

The SCSI drivers in my system are aha154x.sys and aic78xx.sys (both from
the W2k CD)I have re-installed these from the CD as well, but the files
were identical and - of course - it didn't help any.

And yes, I've tried Vuescan. Same story...

I'm runnig out of ideas.

Suggestions anyone?

<sigh>

Tony

More about : scanners windows 2000

Anonymous
April 24, 2004 2:03:30 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.scanners,alt.comp.periphs.scanner,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

There are problems with bus mastering ISA and certain chipsets that show up
under Win 2K but not Win NT. I got myself PCI SCSI 4 years ago.

"Tony" <user@host.net> wrote in message
news:XCeic.173$SL4.47@newsfe5-gui.server.ntli.net...
>
> HW setup:
> PC + Adaptec 1542CF + Adaptec 2904
> Acer (now BenQ) ScanWit 2720S Filmscanner
> Microtek Phantom 336 Flatbed
> Both scanners connected to the 1542CF, film scanner first, then flatbed.
> then terminator.
>
> Both working flawlessly when I run with WinNT 4.0 (SP6a).
> Apparently there is no HW problem (?).
>
> However...
> running W2k SP4 I can't get them to work properly.
> Both devices are detected properly and I installed the latest
> drivers.
>
April 24, 2004 2:03:30 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.scanners,alt.comp.periphs.scanner,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

First, I'm no expert in this area; the following is my PERSONAL experience
with ASPI and Win2K (Folkert take note):

I had similar problems writing to my CD writer using programs that require
ASPI under Win2K...

Win2k does not use the ASPI layer and does not (officially) support its'
use, and installing it (ASPI) gives hit-or-miss results. I found that I can
use the aspi driver under *certain* circumstances... under other
circumstances it hangs my bus. Apparently there is some conflict with the
aspi layer whatever newer protocol/transport/whatever Win2K uses...

Here's some unverified info I found in another post that seemed relevant:

>Adaptec developed software drivers for their SCSI cards, the ASPI
>drivers. CD burners were initially SCSI-only devices, so other
>hardware and software makers could reasonably expect the ASPI drivers
>to be installed on any computers using their product. So rather than
>develop their own solutions, they took advantage of Adaptec's existing
>drivers.
>
>Fast forward to 2001. Microsoft produces two operating systems,
>Windows ME and Windows 2000, that don't support ASPI in some fashion
>or another. Rather than rewrite ASPI to ensure that it is stable,
>Adaptec made a business decision to drop ASPI and use the new built-in
>capabilities of Windows to instead. So they changed their SCSI card
>drivers and their software (ECDC) so that it doesn't need ASPI. (ECDC
>4.02e runs fine on my Win2k machine without ASPI.)
>
>Now all of the software makers that hooked on to ASPI are hosed
>because Adaptec doesn't support it anymore under Win2k and Win ME.
>How is that Adaptec's fault? I've never seen Adaptec incourage other
>software makers to use the ASPI layer. I've never seen them push that
>as a standard. In fact, as we all know, they have tried to prevent
>anyone else from distributing it.
>

"Tony" <user@host.net> wrote in message
news:XCeic.173$SL4.47@newsfe5-gui.server.ntli.net...
> Hi,
>
> I'm having some troubles with my scanners...
>
> HW setup:
> PC + Adaptec 1542CF + Adaptec 2904
> Acer (now BenQ) ScanWit 2720S Filmscanner
> Microtek Phantom 336 Flatbed
> Both scanners connected to the 1542CF, film scanner first, then flatbed.
> then terminator.
>
> Both working flawlessly when I run with WinNT 4.0 (SP6a).
> Apparently there is no HW problem (?).
>
> However...
> running W2k SP4 I can't get them to work properly.
> Both devices are detected properly and I installed the latest
> drivers.
>
> But when I try to scan anything (no matter which scanner) they
> start doing so, e.g. the film scanner is focussing, but after a while
> the procedure stops and some time later I get a timeout and the scnner
> isn't recognised anymore. After a power cycle the scanner regains
> consciousness and I can again start scanning but it hangs at the same
> step as before.
>
> What I've tried so far:
>
> *) Removed all TWAIN drivers
> *) Removed all SW that uses ASPI (surprisingly many)
> *) Tried about a half dozen different ASPI layers
> *) Tried TWAIN dll's from twain.org
> *) Removed one scanner (tried each) from SCSI chain
>
> And of course I have installed/uninstalled the drivers at all stages
> and rebooted every time. Also I made sure that when uninstalling the
> files really disappear (quite often there are leftovers) and that the
> registry is clean (?).
>
> The SCSI drivers in my system are aha154x.sys and aic78xx.sys (both from
> the W2k CD)I have re-installed these from the CD as well, but the files
> were identical and - of course - it didn't help any.
>
> And yes, I've tried Vuescan. Same story...
>
> I'm runnig out of ideas.
>
> Suggestions anyone?
>
> <sigh>
>
> Tony
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Related resources
Anonymous
April 24, 2004 2:03:31 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.scanners,alt.comp.periphs.scanner,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

In article <30gic.2$en3.0@edtnps89>, dspear99ca@yahoo.delete.com says...
> First, I'm no expert in this area; the following is my PERSONAL experience
> with ASPI and Win2K (Folkert take note):
>
> I had similar problems writing to my CD writer using programs that require
> ASPI under Win2K...

Note that ASPI for Win2K has been updated at least twice in last few
years. When W2K came out, you had to use the version that still worked on
Win95 also.

Now there have been 2 or 3 versions that are specifically for XP/W2K.
They also work on 98/98SE/Me also, if one needs an update.

If you are already using latest, 4.7something, disregard.


Mac
April 24, 2004 11:47:26 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.scanners,alt.comp.periphs.scanner,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

As you can see I have a PCI card in my system as well which serves
6 devices (disks, CD/DVD/ZIP drives). I have already swapped the
two cables. That causes some reconfiguration to make all the
disks work again (drive letters...) but the gain is zero, i.e.the
scanners behave on the PCI card the same as on the ISA.

Regards,

Tony

Eric Gisin wrote:
> There are problems with bus mastering ISA and certain chipsets that show up
> under Win 2K but not Win NT. I got myself PCI SCSI 4 years ago.
>
> "Tony" <user@host.net> wrote in message
> news:XCeic.173$SL4.47@newsfe5-gui.server.ntli.net...
>
>>HW setup:
>>PC + Adaptec 1542CF + Adaptec 2904
>>Acer (now BenQ) ScanWit 2720S Filmscanner
>>Microtek Phantom 336 Flatbed
>>Both scanners connected to the 1542CF, film scanner first, then flatbed.
>>then terminator.
>>
>>Both working flawlessly when I run with WinNT 4.0 (SP6a).
>>Apparently there is no HW problem (?).
>>
>>However...
>>running W2k SP4 I can't get them to work properly.
>>Both devices are detected properly and I installed the latest
>>drivers.
>>
>
>
April 24, 2004 12:03:53 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.scanners,alt.comp.periphs.scanner,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

Maybe I should give a list of my ASPI trials...

1) The one that came with W2k
I've checked the service packs. There is no update for these.
2) Adaptec v4.6
3) Adaptec v4.7 alpha 2 (anybody has any newer?)
4) Nero v2.0.1.45
5) LSI v1.7.1
6) ACARD (came with film scanner driver)

They do not all behave the same way.
Some do not generate the pop-up error message (timeout) but rather
cause the program to hang.
The error code also seems to vary with different ASPI layers.
Nero is definitely the "best" because it doesn't even detect any scanners...

BTW: scsi configurations are detected nicely with a tool called
"aspi_you" I found somewhere on the internjet.

Regards,

Tony


Mac McDougald wrote:

> In article <30gic.2$en3.0@edtnps89>, dspear99ca@yahoo.delete.com says...
>
>>First, I'm no expert in this area; the following is my PERSONAL experience
>>with ASPI and Win2K (Folkert take note):
>>
>>I had similar problems writing to my CD writer using programs that require
>>ASPI under Win2K...
>
>
> Note that ASPI for Win2K has been updated at least twice in last few
> years. When W2K came out, you had to use the version that still worked on
> Win95 also.
>
> Now there have been 2 or 3 versions that are specifically for XP/W2K.
> They also work on 98/98SE/Me also, if one needs an update.
>
> If you are already using latest, 4.7something, disregard.
>
>
> Mac
Anonymous
April 24, 2004 6:00:25 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.scanners,alt.comp.periphs.scanner,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

The latest drivers for the Benq do not work, I opened a ticket with Benq and
they told me to revert to the original drivers ver. 3.40 and the scanner
works fine.

MrC


"Tony" <user@host.net> wrote in message
news:XCeic.173$SL4.47@newsfe5-gui.server.ntli.net...
> Hi,
>
> I'm having some troubles with my scanners...
>
> HW setup:
> PC + Adaptec 1542CF + Adaptec 2904
> Acer (now BenQ) ScanWit 2720S Filmscanner
> Microtek Phantom 336 Flatbed
> Both scanners connected to the 1542CF, film scanner first, then flatbed.
> then terminator.
>
> Both working flawlessly when I run with WinNT 4.0 (SP6a).
> Apparently there is no HW problem (?).
>
> However...
> running W2k SP4 I can't get them to work properly.
> Both devices are detected properly and I installed the latest
> drivers.
>
> But when I try to scan anything (no matter which scanner) they
> start doing so, e.g. the film scanner is focussing, but after a while
> the procedure stops and some time later I get a timeout and the scnner
> isn't recognised anymore. After a power cycle the scanner regains
> consciousness and I can again start scanning but it hangs at the same
> step as before.
>
> What I've tried so far:
>
> *) Removed all TWAIN drivers
> *) Removed all SW that uses ASPI (surprisingly many)
> *) Tried about a half dozen different ASPI layers
> *) Tried TWAIN dll's from twain.org
> *) Removed one scanner (tried each) from SCSI chain
>
> And of course I have installed/uninstalled the drivers at all stages
> and rebooted every time. Also I made sure that when uninstalling the
> files really disappear (quite often there are leftovers) and that the
> registry is clean (?).
>
> The SCSI drivers in my system are aha154x.sys and aic78xx.sys (both from
> the W2k CD)I have re-installed these from the CD as well, but the files
> were identical and - of course - it didn't help any.
>
> And yes, I've tried Vuescan. Same story...
>
> I'm runnig out of ideas.
>
> Suggestions anyone?
>
> <sigh>
>
> Tony
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Anonymous
April 25, 2004 4:54:48 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.scanners,alt.comp.periphs.scanner,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

"Dave" <dspear99ca@yahoo.delete.com> wrote in message news:30gic.2$en3.0@edtnps89...
> First, I'm no expert in this area; the following is my PERSONAL experience
> with ASPI and Win2K (Folkert take note):
>
> I had similar problems writing to my CD writer using programs that require
> ASPI under Win2K...
>
> Win2k does not use the ASPI layer

Neither does any other Windows.

[snip]
Anonymous
April 25, 2004 5:03:30 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.scanners,alt.comp.periphs.scanner,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

In article <c6evca$baimv$1@ID-79662.news.uni-berlin.de>, see_reply-
to@myweb.nl says...
>
> "Dave" <dspear99ca@yahoo.delete.com> wrote in message news:30gic.2$en3.0@edtnps89...
> > First, I'm no expert in this area; the following is my PERSONAL experience
> > with ASPI and Win2K (Folkert take note):
> >
> > I had similar problems writing to my CD writer using programs that require
> > ASPI under Win2K...
> >
> > Win2k does not use the ASPI layer
>
> Neither does any other Windows.

I assure you than no version of Windows will run a SCSI scanner withOUT
ASPI.

Mac
Anonymous
April 25, 2004 11:18:23 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.scanners,alt.comp.periphs.scanner,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

"Mac McDougald" <doogleREMOVE_THIS@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1af510a9548705ef202c@news.individual.net...
> In article <c6evca$baimv$1@ID-79662.news.uni-berlin.de>, see_reply-
> to@myweb.nl says...
> >
> > Neither does any other Windows.
>
> I assure you than no version of Windows will run a SCSI scanner withOUT
> ASPI.
>
Sure it will. Scanner drivers are imaging miniports, or WDM drivers that use
SCSI pass-through. Neither use APSI nor implement TWAIN.

Of course if you have an ancient scanner it may not have Win 2K/XP drivers.
April 25, 2004 12:16:15 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.scanners,alt.comp.periphs.scanner,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

What drivers are you talking about?

The latest from BenQ are v2.01 and the ones on the CD are v1.1.
I also tried v2.0 which I happened to have somewhere.
All three of them fail in the same way.

Are you confusing the ScanWit 2720S with another model?

Regards,

Tony

Mr. Chuck wrote:
> The latest drivers for the Benq do not work, I opened a ticket with Benq and
> they told me to revert to the original drivers ver. 3.40 and the scanner
> works fine.
>
> MrC
>
>
> "Tony" <user@host.net> wrote in message
> news:XCeic.173$SL4.47@newsfe5-gui.server.ntli.net...
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>I'm having some troubles with my scanners...
>>
>>HW setup:
>>PC + Adaptec 1542CF + Adaptec 2904
>>Acer (now BenQ) ScanWit 2720S Filmscanner
>>Microtek Phantom 336 Flatbed
>>Both scanners connected to the 1542CF, film scanner first, then flatbed.
>>then terminator.
>>
>>Both working flawlessly when I run with WinNT 4.0 (SP6a).
>>Apparently there is no HW problem (?).
>>
>>However...
>>running W2k SP4 I can't get them to work properly.
>>Both devices are detected properly and I installed the latest
>>drivers.
>>
>>But when I try to scan anything (no matter which scanner) they
>>start doing so, e.g. the film scanner is focussing, but after a while
>>the procedure stops and some time later I get a timeout and the scnner
>>isn't recognised anymore. After a power cycle the scanner regains
>>consciousness and I can again start scanning but it hangs at the same
>>step as before.
>>
>>What I've tried so far:
>>
>>*) Removed all TWAIN drivers
>>*) Removed all SW that uses ASPI (surprisingly many)
>>*) Tried about a half dozen different ASPI layers
>>*) Tried TWAIN dll's from twain.org
>>*) Removed one scanner (tried each) from SCSI chain
>>
>>And of course I have installed/uninstalled the drivers at all stages
>>and rebooted every time. Also I made sure that when uninstalling the
>>files really disappear (quite often there are leftovers) and that the
>>registry is clean (?).
>>
>>The SCSI drivers in my system are aha154x.sys and aic78xx.sys (both from
>>the W2k CD)I have re-installed these from the CD as well, but the files
>>were identical and - of course - it didn't help any.
>>
>>And yes, I've tried Vuescan. Same story...
>>
>>I'm runnig out of ideas.
>>
>>Suggestions anyone?
>>
>><sigh>
>>
>>Tony
>>
Anonymous
April 25, 2004 4:55:06 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.scanners,alt.comp.periphs.scanner,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

In article <c6gi5b01qf2@enews4.newsguy.com>, ericgisin@graffiti.net
says...
> "Mac McDougald" <doogleREMOVE_THIS@netzero.net> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1af510a9548705ef202c@news.individual.net...
> > In article <c6evca$baimv$1@ID-79662.news.uni-berlin.de>, see_reply-
> > to@myweb.nl says...
> > >
> > > Neither does any other Windows.
> >
> > I assure you than no version of Windows will run a SCSI scanner withOUT
> > ASPI.
> >
> Sure it will. Scanner drivers are imaging miniports, or WDM drivers that use
> SCSI pass-through. Neither use APSI nor implement TWAIN.
>
> Of course if you have an ancient scanner it may not have Win 2K/XP drivers.

Well, so you say.
Drivers allow OS to see the scanner, but it just won't work without ASPI
(which was included in Win9x)
Can assure you that "ancient" scanner like Nikon 2000 will not work
without ASPI in W2K or XP, even though there is W2K/XP compatible
versions of NikonScan. Since there are few (if any) SCSI scanners still
being produced, I'd like to hear from anyone who is running one withOUT
ASPI on system (I'd wager that ASPI is included in the installation CD
for them).

Mac
Anonymous
April 26, 2004 3:44:05 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.scanners,alt.comp.periphs.scanner,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

"Mac McDougald" <doogleREMOVE_THIS@netzero.net> wrote in message news:MPG.1af510a9548705ef202c@news.individual.net
> In article <c6evca$baimv$1@ID-79662.news.uni-berlin.de>, see_reply-to@myweb.nl says...
> >
> > "Dave" <dspear99ca@yahoo.delete.com> wrote in message news:30gic.2$en3.0@edtnps89...
> > > First, I'm no expert in this area; the following is my PERSONAL experience
> > > with ASPI and Win2K (Folkert take note):
> > >
> > > I had similar problems writing to my CD writer using programs that require
> > > ASPI under Win2K...
> > >
> > > Win2k does not use the ASPI layer
> >
> > Neither does any other Windows.
>
> I assure you

Well that is your problem.
So you are saying that no SCSI scanner will support TWAIN?

> than no version of Windows will run a SCSI scanner withOUT ASPI.

Windows does not "run" scanners.
Windows itself does not use ASPI (nor TWAIN).
ASPI (and TWAIN) are programming interfaces used by programs.

>
> Mac
Anonymous
April 26, 2004 5:18:40 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.scanners,alt.comp.periphs.scanner,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

In article <c6hbft$brn72$1@ID-79662.news.uni-berlin.de>, see_reply-
to@myweb.nl says...
> "Mac McDougald" <doogleREMOVE_THIS@netzero.net> wrote in message news:MPG.1af510a9548705ef202c@news.individual.net
> > In article <c6evca$baimv$1@ID-79662.news.uni-berlin.de>, see_reply-to@myweb.nl says...
> > >
> > > "Dave" <dspear99ca@yahoo.delete.com> wrote in message news:30gic.2$en3.0@edtnps89...
> > > > First, I'm no expert in this area; the following is my PERSONAL experience
> > > > with ASPI and Win2K (Folkert take note):
> > > >
> > > > I had similar problems writing to my CD writer using programs that require
> > > > ASPI under Win2K...
> > > >
> > > > Win2k does not use the ASPI layer
> > >
> > > Neither does any other Windows.
> >
> > I assure you
>
> Well that is your problem.
> So you are saying that no SCSI scanner will support TWAIN?
>
> > than no version of Windows will run a SCSI scanner withOUT ASPI.
>
> Windows does not "run" scanners.
> Windows itself does not use ASPI (nor TWAIN).
> ASPI (and TWAIN) are programming interfaces used by programs.

Thanks for the precise definition, but point is still that SCSI scanner
won't work without ASPI in the Windows environment.

Mac
Anonymous
April 26, 2004 7:02:28 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.scanners,alt.comp.periphs.scanner,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

Sorry, wrong model...

MrC.

"Tony" <user@host.net> wrote in message
news:gyJic.19$P43.12@newsfe1-gui.server.ntli.net...
> What drivers are you talking about?
>
> The latest from BenQ are v2.01 and the ones on the CD are v1.1.
> I also tried v2.0 which I happened to have somewhere.
> All three of them fail in the same way.
>
> Are you confusing the ScanWit 2720S with another model?
>
> Regards,
>
> Tony
>
> Mr. Chuck wrote:
> > The latest drivers for the Benq do not work, I opened a ticket with Benq
and
> > they told me to revert to the original drivers ver. 3.40 and the scanner
> > works fine.
> >
> > MrC
> >
> >
> > "Tony" <user@host.net> wrote in message
> > news:XCeic.173$SL4.47@newsfe5-gui.server.ntli.net...
> >
> >>Hi,
> >>
> >>I'm having some troubles with my scanners...
> >>
> >>HW setup:
> >>PC + Adaptec 1542CF + Adaptec 2904
> >>Acer (now BenQ) ScanWit 2720S Filmscanner
> >>Microtek Phantom 336 Flatbed
> >>Both scanners connected to the 1542CF, film scanner first, then flatbed.
> >>then terminator.
> >>
> >>Both working flawlessly when I run with WinNT 4.0 (SP6a).
> >>Apparently there is no HW problem (?).
> >>
> >>However...
> >>running W2k SP4 I can't get them to work properly.
> >>Both devices are detected properly and I installed the latest
> >>drivers.
> >>
> >>But when I try to scan anything (no matter which scanner) they
> >>start doing so, e.g. the film scanner is focussing, but after a while
> >>the procedure stops and some time later I get a timeout and the scnner
> >>isn't recognised anymore. After a power cycle the scanner regains
> >>consciousness and I can again start scanning but it hangs at the same
> >>step as before.
> >>
> >>What I've tried so far:
> >>
> >>*) Removed all TWAIN drivers
> >>*) Removed all SW that uses ASPI (surprisingly many)
> >>*) Tried about a half dozen different ASPI layers
> >>*) Tried TWAIN dll's from twain.org
> >>*) Removed one scanner (tried each) from SCSI chain
> >>
> >>And of course I have installed/uninstalled the drivers at all stages
> >>and rebooted every time. Also I made sure that when uninstalling the
> >>files really disappear (quite often there are leftovers) and that the
> >>registry is clean (?).
> >>
> >>The SCSI drivers in my system are aha154x.sys and aic78xx.sys (both from
> >>the W2k CD)I have re-installed these from the CD as well, but the files
> >>were identical and - of course - it didn't help any.
> >>
> >>And yes, I've tried Vuescan. Same story...
> >>
> >>I'm runnig out of ideas.
> >>
> >>Suggestions anyone?
> >>
> >><sigh>
> >>
> >>Tony
> >>
Anonymous
April 26, 2004 10:29:15 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.scanners,alt.comp.periphs.scanner,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

No, your unsupported scanner does not have Win 2K/XP drivers.

"Mac McDougald" <doogleREMOVE_THIS@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1af665bca6f91b62030@news.individual.net...

> > Well that is your problem.
> > So you are saying that no SCSI scanner will support TWAIN?
> >
> > > than no version of Windows will run a SCSI scanner withOUT ASPI.
> >
> > Windows does not "run" scanners.
> > Windows itself does not use ASPI (nor TWAIN).
> > ASPI (and TWAIN) are programming interfaces used by programs.
>
> Thanks for the precise definition, but point is still that SCSI scanner
> won't work without ASPI in the Windows environment.
>
> Mac
Anonymous
April 26, 2004 2:11:34 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.scanners,alt.comp.periphs.scanner,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

In article <c6j33h02scl@enews3.newsguy.com>, ericgisin@graffiti.net
says...
>
>
>No, your unsupported scanner does not have Win 2K/XP drivers.

If we are speaking of any actual SCSI consumer scanners (and this thread
was), then of course anyone with a SCSI scanner knows that Mac is correct.
SCSI consumer scanners absolutely do require ASPI in XP to work.

It is true that W2K/XP does provide an alternate Microsoft SCSI API, and
SCSI hard disk drivers and SCSI CD drivers do use it instead of ASPI. The
idea is then they can no longer bypass Windows security to access system
protected disk files, which is why Microsoft discouraged ASPI.

I suppose your point was that the scanner driver **could** have been
rewritten that way too. My point is that it wasnt. Consumer scanners
simply didnt do it, and they do still require ASPI if you want them to
work in XP. Actually consumer scanners instead abandoned SCSI and
converted to Firewire, etc.

The commerical 10-20 ppm class of office document scanners largely stayed
with SCSI so far, and generally use ISIS instead of TWAIN, and I'd guess
ISIS probably no longer uses ASPI, to keep Microsoft happy.

But SCSI consumer scanners still require ASPI, and this is the first thing
to know to make a SCSI scanner work in XP.

--
Wayne
http://www.scantips.com "A few scanning tips"
Anonymous
April 26, 2004 3:23:33 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.scanners,alt.comp.periphs.scanner,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

Win 98/2K uses STI drivers, and XP/ME uses a variation called WIA. Both use
the WDM still image driver for SCSI, not ASPI or SPTI. See figure 15.6 in Win
2K Pro Res Kit.

TWAIN and ISIS are APIs that sit on top of drivers. APIs and drivers are very
different.

If you have a TWAIN/ASPI driver, it predates Win 98.

http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/stillimage/stillim...

"Wayne Fulton" <nospam@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:bfCdndcdvZY4uxDdRVn-ug@august.net...
> In article <c6j33h02scl@enews3.newsguy.com>, ericgisin@graffiti.net
> says...
> >
> >
> >No, your unsupported scanner does not have Win 2K/XP drivers.
>
> If we are speaking of any actual SCSI consumer scanners (and this thread
> was), then of course anyone with a SCSI scanner knows that Mac is correct.
> SCSI consumer scanners absolutely do require ASPI in XP to work.
>
> It is true that W2K/XP does provide an alternate Microsoft SCSI API, and
> SCSI hard disk drivers and SCSI CD drivers do use it instead of ASPI. The
> idea is then they can no longer bypass Windows security to access system
> protected disk files, which is why Microsoft discouraged ASPI.
>
> I suppose your point was that the scanner driver **could** have been
> rewritten that way too. My point is that it wasnt. Consumer scanners
> simply didnt do it, and they do still require ASPI if you want them to
> work in XP. Actually consumer scanners instead abandoned SCSI and
> converted to Firewire, etc.
>
> The commerical 10-20 ppm class of office document scanners largely stayed
> with SCSI so far, and generally use ISIS instead of TWAIN, and I'd guess
> ISIS probably no longer uses ASPI, to keep Microsoft happy.
>
> But SCSI consumer scanners still require ASPI, and this is the first thing
> to know to make a SCSI scanner work in XP.
>
Anonymous
April 26, 2004 5:06:12 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.scanners,alt.comp.periphs.scanner,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

In article <c6j33h02scl@enews3.newsguy.com>, ericgisin@graffiti.net
says...
> No, your unsupported scanner does not have Win 2K/XP drivers.

Please name one SCSI scanner (film/flatbed/combo) that runs on 2K/XP
without ASPI.

I'm sure if you ran aspichk.exe on that puter, you would find ASPI
installed, however it got there (apparantly from the installation CD that
came with the scanner if user didn't do it separately).

Mac
==================
>
> "Mac McDougald" <doogleREMOVE_THIS@netzero.net> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1af665bca6f91b62030@news.individual.net...
>
> > > Well that is your problem.
> > > So you are saying that no SCSI scanner will support TWAIN?
> > >
> > > > than no version of Windows will run a SCSI scanner withOUT ASPI.
> > >
> > > Windows does not "run" scanners.
> > > Windows itself does not use ASPI (nor TWAIN).
> > > ASPI (and TWAIN) are programming interfaces used by programs.
> >
> > Thanks for the precise definition, but point is still that SCSI scanner
> > won't work without ASPI in the Windows environment.
> >
> > Mac
>
>
Anonymous
April 26, 2004 5:06:13 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.scanners,alt.comp.periphs.scanner,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

Absolutely clueless. Win 2K uses STI drivers, and XP uses a variation called
WIA. Neither use APSI.

http://www.fdg.fujitsu.com/home/faqs.asp?L=en&CID=9&xid...

"Mac McDougald" <doogleREMOVE_THIS@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1af70b8d1d719b222031@news.individual.net...
> In article <c6j33h02scl@enews3.newsguy.com>, ericgisin@graffiti.net
> says...
> > No, your unsupported scanner does not have Win 2K/XP drivers.
>
> Please name one SCSI scanner (film/flatbed/combo) that runs on 2K/XP
> without ASPI.
>
> I'm sure if you ran aspichk.exe on that puter, you would find ASPI
> installed, however it got there (apparantly from the installation CD that
> came with the scanner if user didn't do it separately).
>
Anonymous
April 26, 2004 5:08:03 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.scanners,alt.comp.periphs.scanner,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

> The
> idea is then they can no longer bypass Windows security to access system
> protected disk files, which is why Microsoft discouraged ASPI.

Thought it was a licensing thing between MS and Adaptac that left it out
of W2K and XP? Or fact that Adaptec didn't have an updated version ready,
or combo of both?

Mac
Anonymous
April 26, 2004 8:08:58 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.scanners,alt.comp.periphs.scanner,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

In article <MPG.1af70bfe3814ec772032@news.individual.net>,
doogleREMOVE_THIS@netzero.net says...
>
>
>> The
>> idea is then they can no longer bypass Windows security to access system
>> protected disk files, which is why Microsoft discouraged ASPI.
>
>Thought it was a licensing thing between MS and Adaptac that left it out
>of W2K and XP? Or fact that Adaptec didn't have an updated version ready,
>or combo of both?


It was a mess, political, not technical. One early factor was that ASPI
disks could bypass Microsoft security - ASPI could access the disk directly
anyplace it was told to, didnt bother with passwords, so Microsoft stopped
distributing Adaptec ASPI. But SCSI scanners simply couldnt work without
ASPI (however most of us still used Win98 that included ASPI). There were
other methods possible, and scanner drivers could have been rewritten, but
were not. Some did adopt STI for the buttons, but they largely werent SCSI
anymore. Adaptec sold ASPI with their EZ-SCSI package for their own SCSI
cards. A few scanners licensed and installed ASPI for W2K/XP (this didnt
conflict with Adaptec products). CD software was rewritten to be non-ASPI,
since Adaptec was marketing the EZCD software then, and wouldnt provide ASPI
for competitor CD software or other SCSI cards. Illegal patches were popular
to allow it to be installed in a non-Adaptec environment. A mess, conflicts
of proprietary standards.

This seemed tolerated during NT and W2K, which wasnt a mass market, but when
XP came out, then Joe User was affected. So about 4 months after XP
appeared, and after Adaptec disposed of EZCD, then ASPI 4.71 appeared, free
for all comers, officially blessed for XP by the powers that be. Earlier
versions worked, but were not blessed <g>

Microsoft publishes Knowledge Base Q300674 that says if you want your SCSI
scanner to work with XP, then install ASPI. But there were few SCSI
scanners left.

--
Wayne
http://www.scantips.com "A few scanning tips"
Anonymous
April 27, 2004 7:00:53 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.scanners,alt.comp.periphs.scanner,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

In article <e82dnfWyBN_35xDdRVn-sQ@august.net>, nospam@invalid.com
says...
> In article <MPG.1af70bfe3814ec772032@news.individual.net>,
> doogleREMOVE_THIS@netzero.net says...
> >
> >
> >> The
> >> idea is then they can no longer bypass Windows security to access system
> >> protected disk files, which is why Microsoft discouraged ASPI.
> >
> >Thought it was a licensing thing between MS and Adaptac that left it out
> >of W2K and XP? Or fact that Adaptec didn't have an updated version ready,
> >or combo of both?
>
>
> It was a mess, political, not technical. One early factor was that ASPI
> disks could bypass Microsoft security - ASPI could access the disk directly
> anyplace it was told to, didnt bother with passwords, so Microsoft stopped
> distributing Adaptec ASPI. But SCSI scanners simply couldnt work without
> ASPI (however most of us still used Win98 that included ASPI). There were
> other methods possible, and scanner drivers could have been rewritten, but
> were not. Some did adopt STI for the buttons, but they largely werent SCSI
> anymore. Adaptec sold ASPI with their EZ-SCSI package for their own SCSI
> cards. A few scanners licensed and installed ASPI for W2K/XP (this didnt
> conflict with Adaptec products). CD software was rewritten to be non-ASPI,
> since Adaptec was marketing the EZCD software then, and wouldnt provide ASPI
> for competitor CD software or other SCSI cards. Illegal patches were popular
> to allow it to be installed in a non-Adaptec environment. A mess, conflicts
> of proprietary standards.
>
> This seemed tolerated during NT and W2K, which wasnt a mass market, but when
> XP came out, then Joe User was affected. So about 4 months after XP
> appeared, and after Adaptec disposed of EZCD, then ASPI 4.71 appeared, free
> for all comers, officially blessed for XP by the powers that be. Earlier
> versions worked, but were not blessed <g>
>
> Microsoft publishes Knowledge Base Q300674 that says if you want your SCSI
> scanner to work with XP, then install ASPI. But there were few SCSI
> scanners left.

Ah, thanks Wayne...I'm stashing this one in my UseNet gems section. I
never really understood the whole nuanced saga!

Mac
!