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water cooling questions...

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  • Heatsinks
  • Water Cooling
  • Overclocking
Last response: in Overclocking
October 5, 2006 3:02:22 PM

hi guys. i've only started using water to cool my rig a few weeks ago so if i sound lika complete dunce, bare with me.

so like i said, i've been using a thermaltake bigwater se to cool my rig. its doing a great job too but i know there's something way better.

with that said, here are my questiions.

1. is it possible to use a coolIT Freezone for the proc and a seperate water cooling system for the northbridge and the gpu?

2. are submersible pumps better than non-submersibles?

3. dual 12cm or triple 12cm black ice(danger den x-flow)?

4. What kind of tubing should i use?

5. can i use 2 PSUs? (one for the system and another for cooling)

6. Should i do something about the air inside the case even when watercooling? (i read something about air-conditioned cases)

sorry if iasked too many questions.

More about : water cooling questions

October 5, 2006 4:32:05 PM

hi,
i'll try my best to answer ur questions....here goes....


1) yes u can use the coolit for the cpu but i would suggest keeping things simple and just using one watercooling loop to cool the cpu and the gpu....skip the northbridge it'll do just fine with air cooling and not add any more restriction to ur loop.

2) non-submersible pumps are better because they don't add to the heat by dumping their own heat into the very water ur trying to cool with the radiator....something like the mcp655 should be perfect

3) i think dual radiators are more than sufficient but to each his own on this one

4) use 1/2" ID tubing (preferrably tygon) as its less likely to kink and it will allow freer flow for the water with less restriction

5) depends on the psu .....if u have a very strong primary psu then u don't need a second one for the watercooling and thus won't have to worry about rigging them up so they both turn on at the same time when u hit the power button.....the pump like the mcp655 will only use less than 100w if that anywayz....also, one psu will theoretically emit less heat than two of them inside ur case

6) yes its still important to keep good airflow in the case to help the northbridge and mosfets on ur motherboard stay cool....u just dont need like 10 fans at the same time....just a couple good low noise 120 mm should do the job

hope this helps and have fun
October 5, 2006 7:51:59 PM

go with swiftech. the products they make are the best IMHO.

I have had a blast and great results with my WC project.
Related resources
October 5, 2006 8:41:38 PM

1) Don't bother with the CoolIt Freezone. As far as peltier cooling goes, it's a terribly inefficient setup. There can be as much as a 28 (or more) degree difference between idle and load. That's a HUGE difference and indicates that it is not a very powerful setup (even though it is terribly expensive).

http://www.hardcoreware.net/reviews/review-327-1.htm

2) Non-submerisble pumps are far better. (i.e. MCP655 or MCP355)

3) X-flows are single pass radiators and would only benefit you if you were using low cfm fans. If you use higher cfm fans then you would want dual pass rads. Typically, dual-pass rads (Black Ice Xtreme, PA120) are the preferred choice of the majority of water cooling enthusiasts.

4)Tubing? Well, there are, pretty much, 3 sizes of tubing that you will find most common. In Europe, enthusiasts seem to prefer 1/2 ID or 3/8 ID. In the U.S. the preferred tubing of choice is 1/2 ID. With 1/2 ID, you have a potential for greater flow characteristics. I use 1/2 ID myself. With a powerful pump, it allows you to compensate for the many places where the loop can be restirctive (i.e. rad fittings, 90 degree bends in the water blocks, rad design, number of water blocks, etc.).

5)Why use two PSUs? Unless you're using a peltier on your CPU, there really isn't a need for a second one. You'd be surprised how small the energy requirements are for the various components in a water cooling loop. Of course, if you are dead set on it then yes you can but, it really isn't that practical.

I am using a Silverstone SST-ST75ZF 750 PSU that powers the dual loop water cooling setup in my sig below AND the following components (with the exception of my CPU TEC water block that is powered by my secondary Meanwell PSU):

E6600 Conroe
Abit AB9 PRO
2GB DDR2 800
XFX 7900 GTX Extreme
2 Raptors HDDs
160GB WD Sata HDD
500GB WD Sata HDD
Creative XFI Fatality (with drive bay unit)
(2) 120mm LED Fans
(2) DVD R/RW DL Drives
56-1 card reader
Abit PC Control Drivebay Panel w/CMOS reset button
floppy drive
Dual cold cathode light
(assorted USB devices)

6) Most definitely you will still need good airflow. You won't be water cooling everything that generates heat (i.e. northbridge, southbridge, system memory, GPU memory, HDDs, Optical drives, voltage regulators, etc. ) You still need good airflow for those components to cool.

Don't worry about asking questions - ask away, that's what forums are for - so you can gain knowledge.
October 5, 2006 10:57:39 PM

a little off topic....


but, hey PHREEJAK,
howz that ab9pro working out for ya.....im interested in the board but am waiting for the dx10 cards to come out for the full upgrade....i love abit boards and am still with my trusty ic7 at the moment.
October 5, 2006 11:06:36 PM

It's working fine for me. I understand that some people may have had problems with it (just a small percentage) but it works like a dream for me. In fact, I've not had any issues with it. It was a good buy for me. The only other board I'd consider besides this one is the AW9D-MAX. What I like about the AB9 PRO, though, is the sheer number of sata connections (9 total I think), usb connectors on the mb (3 for a total of 10 possible usb ports) and stability (for me anyways - no problems here). It overclocks well (has a ton of overclocking options).
October 6, 2006 4:01:18 AM

2 submersable is quieter but the heat from the pump is put directly into the water. There is heat put into the water from non submersable pumbs but its like 15w/h (the choice is yours)

3. 1 tripple thermo chill rad will surfice for GPU+CPU. (drop the BIX III)

4. 1/2 inch ID Tygon (tygon makes THE best tubes R3603s are your best bet they are chemiacl resistant etc etc)

5. Yes you can use 2 PSUs but you may want to consider a pump that runs from the power point (dont forget to switch it on when you turn on your pc).

6. You should still have some air cooling in your case... think about your NB, SB, GPU, Mofsets, RAM etc etc. You wont need a lot of case fans but some would be nice.
October 6, 2006 8:02:07 AM

ok, i think i'm getting it. maybe it would help if i post my specs.

here it is

intel core 2 duo e6600 @3.2 ghz
gigabyte 965p ds3
corsair xms2 ddr2-800
creative x-fi fatal1ty
x2 74gb raptors 16mb
x2 320 barracuda 7200.10
evga 7950GX2
ENERMAX liberty 620w psu
antec super lanboy case

currently using bigwater se for cooling.

i'm a little concerned with the temp of the northbridge on my ds3 because it can get really hot under load.

also, the e6600 doesn't really get that hot under load even when oc'd to 3.1ghz on stock cooling. so maybe the temp jump from idle to load wouldn't be that large if use a freezone. (just a thought)

tha lanboy is also a very small case so that's gonna have to go right? what do you guys think?
October 6, 2006 8:05:15 AM

Quote:
1) Don't bother with the CoolIt Freezone. As far as peltier cooling goes, it's a terribly inefficient setup. There can be as much as a 28 (or more) degree difference between idle and load. That's a HUGE difference and indicates that it is not a very powerful setup (even though it is terribly expensive).

http://www.hardcoreware.net/reviews/review-327-1.htm

2) Non-submerisble pumps are far better. (i.e. MCP655 or MCP355)

3) X-flows are single pass radiators and would only benefit you if you were using low cfm fans. If you use higher cfm fans then you would want dual pass rads. Typically, dual-pass rads (Black Ice Xtreme, PA120) are the preferred choice of the majority of water cooling enthusiasts.

4)Tubing? Well, there are, pretty much, 3 sizes of tubing that you will find most common. In Europe, enthusiasts seem to prefer 1/2 ID or 3/8 ID. In the U.S. the preferred tubing of choice is 1/2 ID. With 1/2 ID, you have a potential for greater flow characteristics. I use 1/2 ID myself. With a powerful pump, it allows you to compensate for the many places where the loop can be restirctive (i.e. rad fittings, 90 degree bends in the water blocks, rad design, number of water blocks, etc.).

5)Why use two PSUs? Unless you're using a peltier on your CPU, there really isn't a need for a second one. You'd be surprised how small the energy requirements are for the various components in a water cooling loop. Of course, if you are dead set on it then yes you can but, it really isn't that practical.

I am using a Silverstone SST-ST75ZF 750 PSU that powers the dual loop water cooling setup in my sig below AND the following components (with the exception of my CPU TEC water block that is powered by my secondary Meanwell PSU):

E6600 Conroe
Abit AB9 PRO
2GB DDR2 800
XFX 7900 GTX Extreme
2 Raptors HDDs
160GB WD Sata HDD
500GB WD Sata HDD
Creative XFI Fatality (with drive bay unit)
(2) 120mm LED Fans
(2) DVD R/RW DL Drives
56-1 card reader
Abit PC Control Drivebay Panel w/CMOS reset button
floppy drive
Dual cold cathode light
(assorted USB devices)

6) Most definitely you will still need good airflow. You won't be water cooling everything that generates heat (i.e. northbridge, southbridge, system memory, GPU memory, HDDs, Optical drives, voltage regulators, etc. ) You still need good airflow for those components to cool.

Don't worry about asking questions - ask away, that's what forums are for - so you can gain knowledge.


what kind of temps do you get?
October 6, 2006 8:16:57 AM

The CoolIt Freezone has a rather large internal footprint. If you are going to cool other components via water cooling It will present some problems with clearance.

My temps?

For my CPU (when I was using my Swiftech MCW5002-775T on a 955 Presler Core (which generated far greater heat than any Conroe) I was getting 0 degrees at idle and 0 degrees on load - no overclocking. When I overclocked to 4+ (It was a 3.46 CPU) I was getting 0 degrees idle and, I guess, about 3 - 6 degrees on load (usually closer to 3, though). I've since upgraded to the E6600 but haven't overclocked yet. So, I figure, since the Conroe core generates way less heat, I will have a much higher threshold as far as cooling capacity.

My GPU, on the same cooling loop, stays around 38 degrees idle and around 42 degrees on load.
October 6, 2006 8:34:42 AM

Quote:
The CoolIt Freezone has a rather large internal footprint. If you are going to cool other components via water cooling It will present some problems with clearance.

My temps?

For my CPU (when I was using my Swiftech MCW5002-775T on a 955 Presler Core (which generated far greater heat than any Conroe) I was getting 0 degrees at idle and 0 degrees on load - no overclocking. When I overclocked to 4+ (It was a 3.46 CPU) I was getting 0 degrees idle and, I guess, about 3 - 6 degrees on load (usually closer to 3, though). I've since upgraded to the E6600 but haven't overclocked yet. So, I figure, since the Conroe core generates way less heat, I will have a much higher threshold as far as cooling capacity.

My GPU, on the same cooling loop, stays around 38 degrees idle and around 42 degrees on load.


whoa! those are super low temps! 8O

any condensation issues? and that 7900gtx is peltier cooled too right?
October 6, 2006 8:51:16 AM

No condensation issues whatsoever. I use Conformal Coating (sprayed on lacquer) around the back of the mothrboard (directly behind where the CPU is located) and around (not in) the CPU socket in the front, dielectric grease in the CPU socket and neoprene foam pads around the waterblock. I've used this setup for about 2 years now and never had any sort of condensation issues.

On this rig, the GPU is not cooled by a TEC. I am using a ViperFangII waterblock (custom built by ViperJohn) on this rig. I used to have a 226 watt ViperVenomII (custom built by ViperJohn) on this rig but running two 226 watt TECs added so much heat to my cooling loops that my CPU temps rose from 0 degrees idle and 3 - 6 load to around 4 - 8 degrees idle and 12 - 16 degrees load (I like my CPU to be as close to 0 degrees as possible - what can I say, I'm just particular about my CPU temps)

However, on an XFX 7900 GTX Extreme, when I was using it in the same loop as the CPU TEC, the ViperVenomII was giving me around -17 (yes, that's minus 17) on idle and -14 on load. I now use the ViperVenomII on a seperate gaming rig.
October 6, 2006 9:07:13 AM

wow. peltier cooling is so much more complicated. i'm still gonna try it though...

here's what i learned so far.

*dual pass rads are better for high cfm fans.
*1/2 id tubing = better cooling performance
*2 PSUs are necessary if using peltier cooling.

i'm gonna try and put together a list of parts that i plan to use and see if i can get the phreejak seal-of-approval.

p.s. what kind of coolant do you use?
October 6, 2006 9:20:41 AM

Well, since I have so much money invested in computer components and cooling I definitely didn't want to skimp on coolant. I decided to use a non-conductive solution because I just wanted to take every precaution for safety. So, I began using PrimoCHILL ICE. It takes about 2 bottles for my cooling loop ($40 total) and I change it out once every 9 - 12 months.

I can say, from actual experience, that PC ICE is definitely non-conductive. I've experienced leaks (once on my GPU water block) that saw fluid go onto my motherboard while the computer was running and I've also spilled coolant onto my PSU when it was on - nothing happened in either case - except that I had to change my shorts...

Peltier cooling is complicated to begin with but once the loop is constructed, it is no more worry than any other standard water cooling setup. It's far more practical than phase change cooling because it can pretty much integrate itself into any water cooling loop and, thus, still be internalized - unlike phase change setups which are seperate cooling solutions outside of water cooling loops and use entire external setups that the computer either has to stand on or sit next to.

It's a way for someone to achieve sub-ambient temps without having to have a mobile home sitting next to (or under) the computer.

You are correct on your three points. I do use 2 PSUs for my TEC cooling but one of them sits in a 5 1/4 drivebay so it is out of the way.
October 6, 2006 2:27:05 PM

there still one thing that i don't get...

what does a peltier cpu water block look like?
October 6, 2006 2:30:02 PM

Here's the one I use:

MCW5002-775T - It sits on top of the CPU like any standard water block and the two wire leads you see in the picture connect to my Meanwell 300 SE12. The two wire leads are attached to the TEC module that is between two copper coldplates that are attached to the water block and enclosed within neoprene pads (for condensation prevention).

http://www.swiftnets.com/products/mcw5002-775T.asp
October 6, 2006 4:21:20 PM

are there other tec water blocks that i can use? the one you use is very hard to find. crazy pc and sidewinder computers sell it on their store but its currently on backorder.
October 6, 2006 4:51:41 PM

Well.....mmmmm

I actually can't find it anywhere either - which is odd because I can usually find something somewhere. The only evidence of it I did find was an entire kit for that particular TEC waterblock - but it is expensive.

Swiftech H20-220-775T™ ThermoElectric Liquid Cooling Kit ($519)
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/2367/ex-wat-57/Swifte...
This comes with everything - tubing, rads, conformal coating, dielectric grease - the works. It's the very kit I purchased when I first got into TEC cooling.

As far as I know, the Swiftech TEC block was the only CPU TEC block available. I called Swiftech and spoke to a friend of mine there and I was told that they might not be making it anymore as they are possbily going to redesign it down the road - when that will be I have no idea. It's puzzling to me because the present 775 TEC block was an excellent one.

I will, however, keep looking and if I find one I'll let you know.
October 6, 2006 5:08:09 PM

awww man...

the maze4-1 peltier version is the only possible alternative i can find. i dunno if it can be used with a lga 775 proc. what do you think?
October 6, 2006 5:15:54 PM

It can but I've found no place that sells the entire block (water block, coldpaltes, peltier module and neoprene) in one whole kit. If you don't have any experience with using TEC cooling I wouldn't adise your first step into it be by you having to put together your first TEC waterblock.

I've a friend at Sidewinder Computers that I just got off the phone with and he said that, word is, he might be getting some in about 3 weeks.

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/swmc7.html

If you can wait that long - go to the site and put yourself on email alert. The guy who owns the company is pretty righteous and you will get an alert when (or if) he does get some in but I must warn you - they sell out fast......

I didn't realize how popular they had become.

As I said, if I come across one I'll drop you a pm to let you know.
October 6, 2006 5:18:50 PM

wow... thanks phreejak.
October 6, 2006 5:33:02 PM

Yeah, you can use two psu. For the second one just jump the switch wires, then when you power up you pc, run the secondary psu for the Big Water and then when that's running power on the rest of the pc.