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Hello, Nvidia vs ATI?

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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October 6, 2006 9:01:56 PM

Hello people! I'm new to the boards. But I have been visiting Toms Hardware since I had my 486 computer.

Anyways, Seems that ATI is the winner when it comes to video cards now days. I never owned one and I have always gone with NVIDIA. Right now I have the 7800GTX KO from EVGA. I thought that this was a good card. I see a lot of posts on ATI and was wondering is it really that much better?

More about : nvidia ati

October 6, 2006 9:17:48 PM

The 7800GTX is a good card but there is better ones out there. I wouldn't worry about upgrading since that card should easily last you until the DX10 cards are released.
October 6, 2006 9:26:24 PM

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, that would make sense. When the Dx10 comes out and the games that support that. Would this video card still work for that? I hear that it wont. That's when everyone would have to buy a new card that games support Dx10? Thanks
Related resources
a b U Graphics card
October 6, 2006 9:58:20 PM

Your card is pretty close to a X1800XT. As was mentioned there are better cards, but that GTX should have a long gaming life still; keep it and upgrade when you need more performance. You may want to wait and see how the G80 vs. R600 battle turns out and go with whichever is better.
a c 109 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
October 6, 2006 9:59:41 PM

yeah...just like they did with DX9.... to this day allot of games still run on DX8
October 6, 2006 10:15:46 PM

not many games will need dx10 till at least 2008. developers simply wont want to cutout the vast majority of gamers that won't upgrade to vista becuz it runs apps slower than xp does. there are even rumors that dx10 will come as a patch to vista becuz it might not be ready for the launch. and the dx10 graphics cards are hella expensive. something in the neighborhood of 400+ dollars from dailytech reports. you should be fine with your card till at least the second gen dx10 cards are released. i personally have a 7600gt and am not gonna upgrade until there are some sane graphics card options for dx10.
October 7, 2006 1:00:46 AM

Thanks for all the replies. It gives me idea's on what to do later on. Like I said I always used NVIDIA. I guess when the time comes I will wait till the new stuff comes out and decide then.

Any of you have that ATI with the HD TV tuner cards? Just wondering how good that was. Because I may change later depending on the reviews and see about going that rout. It would be nice to tune in and see some games in HD. Meaning sports games TV.
October 7, 2006 1:22:19 AM

Also the card that I have now has Integrated HDTV Encoder. I have a HDTV monitor but no idea what benefits from this. I was wanting to hook up the satellite feed to the card but looks like it wont work. I thought when I bought the card I could get the HDTV with it.

One more question, I noticed on the settings for the NVIDIA console. That you can change the resolutions for HDTV, I guess. My monitor supports 1024x768. Their is some setting with the resolution in HDTV formats and they are higher than 1024x768. It would be bad to use this stuff huh? The crazy part was I screwed up with it a while back and the resolution was higher and worked fin. I set it back because I didn't want to screw anything up so I'm still set at the 1024x768. I got a storming deal on this monitor but its only down fall is that its only 1024x768. Anyways all this video stuff confuses me now days. Thanks
October 7, 2006 1:26:05 AM

I just looked at the monitor manual and it says SXGA goes to 1280X1024.
October 7, 2006 1:28:18 AM

Quote:
I just looked at the monitor manual and it says SXGA goes to 1280X1024.

I just looked at the forum and it says that there is an edit post button :roll:
October 7, 2006 1:32:52 AM

Quote:
I just looked at the monitor manual and it says SXGA goes to 1280X1024.

I just looked at the forum and it says that there is an edit post button :roll:
LOL, take it easy there bud. :lol: 
October 7, 2006 1:34:21 AM

Sorry, did I do something wrong?
October 7, 2006 1:37:33 AM

No. GW is always like that. :wink:
October 7, 2006 1:37:49 AM

No :lol:  , I'm just fighting my own personal demons.....ignore me :D 
October 7, 2006 1:44:12 AM

Quote:
My monitor supports 1024x768. Their is some setting with the resolution in HDTV formats and they are higher than 1024x768. It would be bad to use this stuff huh?

To experience HD, you need a monitor/TV that supports a resolution much higher than 104x768.

1024x768 is poop, and not "high definition" at all.

Dont try going over your monitors supported resolution because it will probably cause your monitor to click off....or BSOD.
October 7, 2006 1:49:57 AM

find the drivers for the monitor online, it should open up your 'lost' resolution
October 7, 2006 1:50:31 AM

Well it so funny. If I go 1280x1024 it works fin. Just in the specs it says it goes to that in SXGA? Well I'm set up DVI but don't know what SXGA really is. I looked it up but don't get it hehe. Right now I'm running at that setting and no issues. Ah I guess it supports it. I just never was sure what the heck the SXGA. I may need glasses later on at this res though lol.
October 7, 2006 2:08:12 AM

sticking to the topic: i think ati is gonna get one of it's balls crushed. looking at the AMD/ATI article on THW, they're going to release their dx10 card in Q2 07??? (Apr-Jun) Are they stupid? Nvidia AFAIK can (and will?) release theirs in november. For anyone needing a dx10 card when it releases, that's going to saturate the dx10 market early... Granted i'm not building my new rig till Vista and DX10 (probably in the form of a download :roll: ) are released. Vista seems to release on January but if they pushed that back to easter then i could sit on my hands and wait for ATI's cards to release (along with AMD's (most likely) meager offerings) and see how things battle out before i build the rig. (even if ATI released info of it's card around Nvidia's launch, ATI's card would have to be loads better to make people ignore nvidia for 6 months!)
October 7, 2006 2:23:02 AM

Quote:
Thanks for the reply. Yeah, that would make sense. When the Dx10 comes out and the games that support that. Would this video card still work for that? I hear that it wont. That's when everyone would have to buy a new card that games support Dx10? Thanks


Games taht are written in DX10 will be backwards-compatible with DX9 hardware. Your graphics card should run any game out there for the next ~2 years.
October 7, 2006 2:25:58 AM

Quote:
sticking to the topic: i think ati is gonna get one of it's balls crushed. looking at the AMD/ATI article on THW, they're going to release their dx10 card in Q2 07??? (Apr-Jun) Are they stupid? Nvidia AFAIK can (and will?) release theirs in november. For anyone needing a dx10 card when it releases, that's going to saturate the dx10 market early... Granted i'm not building my new rig till Vista and DX10 (probably in the form of a download :roll: ) are released. Vista seems to release on January but if they pushed that back to easter then i could sit on my hands and wait for ATI's cards to release (along with AMD's (most likely) meager offerings) and see how things battle out before i build the rig. (even if ATI released info of it's card around Nvidia's launch, ATI's card would have to be loads better to make people ignore nvidia for 6 months!)


LOL, first, you ignore the fact that Windows Vista, which is a must for DirectX 10, will also launch in 2007, not 2006. And you are talking only about high end graphics market, so the folks that buy DX10 card will prolly research a lot before they buy it. There may be a small number of people will buy it early just for bragging right, but the majority will wait for the result between R600 and G80. Nvidia launches G80 before Ati launches its R600 doesnt make much of a difference, since there is no game nor even an OS (Vista) needed to take advantage of its horsepower. Also, since Vista feature will prevent people from using an illegal copy, many customers will delay their time to upgrade to Window Vista (it costs about $300 for the premium one, and DX10 is prolly not gonna avaiable for launch with Vista but later added through updating)
October 7, 2006 3:08:21 AM

Quote:
sticking to the topic: i think ati is gonna get one of it's balls crushed. looking at the AMD/ATI article on THW, they're going to release their dx10 card in Q2 07??? (Apr-Jun) Are they stupid? Nvidia AFAIK can (and will?) release theirs in november. For anyone needing a dx10 card when it releases, that's going to saturate the dx10 market early... Granted i'm not building my new rig till Vista and DX10 (probably in the form of a download :roll: ) are released. Vista seems to release on January but if they pushed that back to easter then i could sit on my hands and wait for ATI's cards to release (along with AMD's (most likely) meager offerings) and see how things battle out before i build the rig. (even if ATI released info of it's card around Nvidia's launch, ATI's card would have to be loads better to make people ignore nvidia for 6 months!)


LOL, first, you ignore the fact that Windows Vista, which is a must for DirectX 10, will also launch in 2007, not 2006. And you are talking only about high end graphics market, so the folks that buy DX10 card will prolly research a lot before they buy it. There may be a small number of people will buy it early just for bragging right, but the majority will wait for the result between R600 and G80. Nvidia launches G80 before Ati launches its R600 doesnt make much of a difference, since there is no game nor even an OS (Vista) needed to take advantage of its horsepower. Also, since Vista feature will prevent people from using an illegal copy, many customers will delay their time to upgrade to Window Vista (it costs about $300 for the premium one, and DX10 is prolly not gonna avaiable for launch with Vista but later added through updating)


>> and DX10 is prolly not gonna avaiable for launch with Vista but later added through updating)

Let me explode that myth....DX10 is already fully included in the Vista RC1 and RC2 trial versions. Although Vista will be formally launched in 2007, there are plenty of people (me included) who are running vista already from the customer preview program.

Just go here if you want it too:

http://download.windowsvista.com/preview/rc1/en/downloa...

>> the majority will wait for the result between R600 and G80.

Not me. I'll get a couple of 8800gtx's as soon as they're out. nVidia and ATI are usually close enough that it doesn't really matter. I use both windows and Linux, and ATI's Linux drivers are crap enough that I'd never buy ATI again. Nvidias Linux drivers are good and stable. Ati still don't even have Linux drivers for their GPU in my 3 yr old HP laptop.
October 7, 2006 7:21:12 AM

so waiht whast? bawckwawrds compatbile swhat? dx10 rhunss dx9? iasam lost
October 7, 2006 7:21:52 AM

waybe drrrrrruank
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
October 7, 2006 10:00:48 PM

Quote:

Not me. I'll get a couple of 8800gtx's as soon as they're out.


Of course your an nV fan, wouldn't matter what was out there you probably bought an FX and still think it's a great card. :roll:

Quote:
nVidia and ATI are usually close enough that it doesn't really matter. I use both windows and Linux, and ATI's Linux drivers are crap enough that I'd never buy ATI again. Nvidias Linux drivers are good and stable. Ati still don't even have Linux drivers for their GPU in my 3 yr old HP laptop.


This is the third time I've seen you spout this crap. The Differences between ATi and nV are alot less than before, even on the Linux front (thanks to AMD, just like nV can thank HP [Hmm wonder how your laptop got drivers, oh yeah HP's specific help :roll: ]). TheInquirer seemed to make it ok on a 3 year old Gateway Laptop with an MR9600. Using your logic, Windows users shouldn't use nV because their drivers aren't as stable, and lack the same level of certification (ATi being the first to get WHQL certification for Vista, with nV still not getting it).

So then I guess it'd be nV for Linux and ATi for Windows if you believe the preferntial crap you spout. Personally I'd worry about nV if they're putting all their hopes on Linux.

Pretty much every recent review debunks your picture of ATi and Linux as the gap being only minor, as for Vista we'll just have to wait and see what nV can do to improve their current situation as odd man out. Probably the same ATi did to improve their Linux situation.

Personally I say the driver issue is a red-herring especially if you're pretending that ATi's Linux performance has anything to do with the DX10/VISTA race. Oh yeah no DX10 for Linux, or did you forget it's OGL, so 2.0+. :roll:

Just like Korsen's projected 6 month lead time, I'd say you're post is little more than FUD, and based on your posts in other sections;

http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?nam...

You look like nothing more than an nV PR stooge.
October 7, 2006 10:28:45 PM

The only reason I'm staying with Nvidia right now comes from my inability to run two ATI graphics cards in this motherboard, and I need a performance boost NOW! :?
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
October 7, 2006 11:04:59 PM

And that's the thing there are issues, but it's not like it's only one company that has issues.

I don't disagree that ATi has work to do, as does nV. Just sick of NIZ's one-side posts recently that paint a very one-sided picture and qualify as FUD at best.
October 12, 2006 7:39:59 AM

Quote:
And that's the thing there are issues, but it's not like it's only one company that has issues.

I don't disagree that ATi has work to do, as does nV. Just sick of NIZ's one-side posts recently that paint a very one-sided picture and qualify as FUD at best.



Its clear from your previous rant that you're obviously just a complete ATI fanboi who can't take any criticism of ATI at all. What part of me saying ATI are bad because "ATI DONT HAVE LINUX DRIVERS AT ALL FOR MY LAPTOP's GPU" is fud? You think its just my imagination or somehow my fault that ATI haven't bothered to support their own damn products when nVidia make linux drivers for all their GPUs? I would have thought its blatantly obvious to even someone like you which would be better in that case.
October 12, 2006 7:59:56 AM

Quote:
Quote:

Not me. I'll get a couple of 8800gtx's as soon as they're out.


>> Of course your an nV fan, wouldn't matter what was out there you probably bought an FX and still think it's a great card. :roll:

WTF? I currently have a 6800 ultra.

Quote:
nVidia and ATI are usually close enough that it doesn't really matter. I use both windows and Linux, and ATI's Linux drivers are crap enough that I'd never buy ATI again. Nvidias Linux drivers are good and stable. Ati still don't even have Linux drivers for their GPU in my 3 yr old HP laptop.


>> This is the third time I've seen you spout this crap. The Differences between ATi and nV are alot less than before,

errr.. see in the part of my post that you quoted right above where I just said exactly that?

>> even on the Linux front (thanks to AMD, just like nV can thank HP [Hmm wonder how your laptop got drivers, oh yeah HP's specific help :roll: ]).

nv write their own drivers. you need to get your own facts straight.

>> TheInquirer seemed to make it ok on a 3 year old Gateway Laptop with an MR9600.

Oh well thats all right then, thank goodness all laptops are exactly the same *not*.

>> Using your logic, Windows users shouldn't use nV because their drivers aren't as stable, and lack the same level of certification (ATi being the first to get WHQL certification for Vista, with nV still not getting it).

So I'm saying nvidia are better and somehow you think that means I'm telling windows users not to use nvidia? whatever.

>> So then I guess it'd be nV for Linux and ATi for Windows if you believe the preferntial crap you spout. Personally I'd worry about nV if they're putting all their hopes on Linux.

Yeah sure nv are just focussing on the linux market. thats why they're releasing the new DX10 cards first way ahead of ATI's.

>> Pretty much every recent review debunks your picture of ATi and Linux as the gap being only minor,

For every review you can show me that says that, I'll find 10 that say opposite. AMD's linux drivers still are far worse than nVidias both for ease of installation and outright performance. nvidias Linux drivers are about the same as their windows drivers in performance, ATI's are nothing like as fast under Linux as they are under windows, or as easy as nvidias drivers to install, even now. Go check any Linux group or forum and see what they're mostly saying about ATI.

>> as for Vista we'll just have to wait and see what nV can do to improve their current situation as odd man out.

Odd man out as in currently having the fastest card (7950) and also first to market with a DX10 card in a couple of weeks, when ATI's is still months away?. Yeah nvidia are really slipping..

>> Probably the same ATi did to improve their Linux situation.

err what would that be? in the case of ATI and linux, a real half-assed job.

>> Personally I say the driver issue is a red-herring especially if you're pretending that ATi's Linux performance has anything to do with the DX10/VISTA race.

Please stick to arguing against something I actually did say.

Oh yeah no DX10 for Linux, or did you forget it's OGL, so 2.0+. :roll:

:roll: yourself. I'm a professional linux and windows software dev. so doncha think I would already realise DX10 is a windows-only technology?
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
October 13, 2006 3:47:27 AM

Quote:

Its clear from your previous rant that you're obviously just a complete ATI fanboi who can't take any criticism of ATI at all.


BS Niz!

Unlike you I've recommended nV, ATi and everyone else even Intel and SiS. You on the other hand have a pattern I'm not the only one to notice, as seen in that other thread.

Quote:
What part of me saying ATI are bad because "ATI DONT HAVE LINUX DRIVERS AT ALL FOR MY LAPTOP's GPU" is fud?


That statement isn't, but that's not all you said now is it. The rest is fud, especially your attributions beyond that. You personal experience is different than the overall view, and until you post some benchies proving your laptop I don't even believe you own that HP.

Quote:
You think its just my imagination or somehow my fault that ATI haven't bothered to support their own damn products when nVidia make linux drivers for all their GPUs? I would have thought its blatantly obvious to even someone like you which would be better in that case.


Supporting the GF2 doesn't make them better for current VPUs which is what the discussion centered around, I'd think even you could figure that out, but obviously not. And unless your laptop uses a pre-8500 chip then you're full of crap.

Quote:
WTF? I currently have a 6800 ultra.


No surprise there, but obviously you can't read as well as can't quote, re-read and understand, it wouldn't matter about 'currently own' now would it.

Quote:
errr.. see in the part of my post that you quoted right above where I just said exactly that?


Actually you obviously can't read nor write, your statement of parity is after a comment about hardware in reply to the difference between hardware, my statement is in reply to your comments about software. Try and keep up.

Quote:
nv write their own drivers. you need to get your own facts straight.


You need to get your facts straight it's well kown that HP helped nV with their Linux drivers. nV may offer the final product but that doesn't mean alot of hands were in the pot. Go see for yourself since you're so interested in Linux, then edjumikate yourself before bringing it up.

Quote:
So I'm saying nvidia are better and somehow you think that means I'm telling windows users not to use nvidia? whatever.


Sure, the logic fits even if you can't follow it. If they should consider nV because nV does better with Linux drivers, then by the same logic, anyone considering Windows should chose ATi since they're better with windows drivers according to Microsoft. Or was your logic just nV is better at everything because you say so?

Quote:
Yeah sure nv are just focussing on the linux market. thats why they're releasing the new DX10 cards first way ahead of ATI's.


They haven't released them yet, and they aren't fully DX10 compliant yet. We'll see at launch whether or not it's a functional DX10 part, or just a DX10 part in name only like the GMA965/X3000 which will preceed it. Being first doesn't matter unless you can do it right.

Quote:
For every review you can show me that says that, I'll find 10 that say opposite. AMD's linux drivers still are far worse than nVidias both for ease of installation and outright performance.


Oh really, ease of installation can't really beat a graphically install like The Inq reported on;
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=34774

Now show me those 10 recent Linux reviews you promised.

>> as for Vista we'll just have to wait and see what nV can do to improve their current situation as odd man out.

Quote:
Odd man out as in currently having the fastest card (7950)


Well first we're talking about software, not hardware. But if you want to bring up unrelated arguments because you can't reply properly, that's fine because nV doesn't have the fastest card, ATi does. nV has the fastest single slot solution. Perhaps you should check your facts again when you're doing all that other research.

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and also first to market with a DX10 card in a couple of weeks,


If it's actually DX compliant and not another FX. BTW, they still need solid vista drivers for that as a first step.

Quote:
when ATI's is still months away?. Yeah nvidia are really slipping..


Once again, DX10 and Vista are not the same thing, they are related, but you ignore the fact that nV still isn't up to par in the windows driver segment for Vista, so if you want to talk about drivers stick to drivers, the rest just looks like you're unable to reply with anything other than PR FUD. But hey that takes us full circle, in order to avoid the statement that people will wait for the R600 and G80 to go head to head you redirected to drivers, and now when discussing the driver matchup you try to redirect to hardware. You can run all you want but you can't hide.

Quote:
Please stick to arguing against something I actually did say.


I am, unlike you I stay on topic. The discussion you replied to was about Vista, DX10 and DX10 hardware, and you talk about Linux, in what amounts to a cut and paste of the other threads you've added this unrelated junk in. Even if ATi had NO Linux drivers, it wouldn't matter for that discussion. Linux is pretty much irrelevant to G80 v R600 except as an afterthought. For the Quadro and FireGL market it'd matter, but neither of these cards will sink or swim based on Linux, but they will die on the Windows/DX cross if they slip up.

Quote:
I'm a professional linux and windows software dev. so doncha think I would already realise DX10 is a windows-only technology?


One would think so, but by your post, obviously not. If you were a proffesional you'd know how little Linux means to these launch cards.

So if I don't have to point that out to you, then figure out that your Linux statements have nothing to do with the discussion you replied to except for your non-sequitur in an obvious attempt to derail the thread into your standard nV promo like you used in the other thread.

Now go out and get that homework assignment you made for yourself, 10 current reviews by next post. :tongue:
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