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S939 X2 Toledo 4200+ vs. S939 X2 Manchester 4200+

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October 7, 2006 7:12:16 AM

So are they the same CPU? I have read that the Toledo is not quite as good because of some internal working I am not going to even pretend to understand; I understand that the cores used to have 1GB cache. Were they crippled to sell it cheaper or because there was a problem and thus it could be a poor CPU?

I want one of these CPUs, I think. I am close to making a fair sized order from newegg, and they only offer the Toledo at present. ZipZoomFly still has the Manchester, or so they are currently calling it. I say that because yesterday at newegg I added a Manchester to my cart and today there was a Toledo in my cart, and some of the poeple posting reviews claim they bought a Manchester but got a Toledo instead. I have heard good things about ZipZoomFly, but I have never order from there before. Do I need to care? What is the difference between the two CPUs?
October 7, 2006 7:48:25 AM

The Toledo is socket 939 and uses DDR and the Windsor is socket AM2 and uses DDR2.
Other than that, the performance is nearly identical.
October 7, 2006 4:50:17 PM

So if I am going to make an order from newegg, there is no need to go out of my way and get a Manchester from ZipZoomFly; I should just get a Toledo from newegg if that is what they have.
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October 23, 2006 7:05:07 PM

But NOTE what megame255 said: they fit into different sockets, so you have to know which you're getting and buy the right motherboard, plus the correct RAM type to fit that mobo.
January 20, 2007 6:50:33 AM

i have toledo 939 11x245fsb@ 2.7 GHz 1.46v idle33c load 46c H20

max i have gone to is :- 255fsb with clock gen 2.8ghz 1.56v did not try higher was not sure about the voltage read 1.6v MAX

stepping JH-E6
cpuid 00020F32h
February 6, 2007 1:39:01 PM

Quote:
But NOTE what megame255 said: they fit into different sockets, so you have to know which you're getting and buy the right motherboard, plus the correct RAM type to fit that mobo.


Manchester and Toledo are both S939, it's Windsor that's AM2....
February 6, 2007 2:37:11 PM

I have had the Toledo 4200 running at 2.8GHz for three months now, so it is a little late. But I have not pushed it past 2.8 and my VCore is only at 1.36... see my sig. I am quite happy.
February 6, 2007 2:48:21 PM

IMHO - Those specs at newegg don't look right.
I thought that the Toledo cores have 2 X 1mb of cache and are the 4400 (2.2) and 4800 (2.4). While the Manchesters were 2 X 512 at 2.2 (4200) and 2.4 (4600).

Missprint perhps?
February 6, 2007 3:02:58 PM

Quote:
nope, the original 4200/3600 were toledo's with just half the cache disabled, the manchester core came with the 3800


And that's exactly why I didn't get selected to be on Jeopardy :lol: 
February 6, 2007 3:14:29 PM

Well I have a Manchester core 4600 and it's a little slower than the Toledo chip on the cpu benchmark's page. About 40 less on 3dmark 2006 whereas my old 3700 was only 2 off from the benchmark result. So in my opinion the Toledo's are better chips.
February 6, 2007 10:57:38 PM

You couldn't elaborate on that briefly could you please? I'm trying to decide between these two for one of my rigs..... :?
February 6, 2007 11:02:29 PM

Think its worth stepping up to the 175 then from the 170? Only costs a bit more.......
February 7, 2007 12:10:23 AM

Around 2.8 will do me anyway..... thanks for the help. :D 
February 7, 2007 11:06:46 AM

I can still get the 165 here in the UK, but....... please excuse my ignorance, but would a 175 not overclock higher because it has an extra 400MHz to begin with? I ask because I have an E6600 that is running at 3.6GHz stable on air, and although the E6300 can overclock higher as a percentage of its initial clockspeed, the E6600 still has a higher final clockspeed on air cooling........

Is this not the same for the Optys? :?
February 7, 2007 9:14:12 PM

Ah right..... thanks a lot :D  . Do you happen to know if they all come with that new 4 heatpipe cooler? It's supposed to be that good that I won't need another one.....
February 7, 2007 9:31:44 PM

Might get the Arctic Cooling Freezer 64, as I have the 7 Pro and I like it.... and it's cheap. Think it should do the job. I'll let you know how the OC goes. Thanks for all help :D 
February 7, 2007 10:21:26 PM

I picked up an opty 185 a month ago and it came with a heat pipe cooler. Also, you may want to consider a faster Opty depending on what type of ram you have and how much overclock you are after. If you do not have higher quality ram it is a little more difficult to overclock succesfully. Good Luck.
February 14, 2007 6:04:21 AM

The opty 170 I got from newegg in december came with a heatpipe. I still didn't like it enough to not invest in a ninja though.
Get the freezer, or get a ninja. Zalman is for rich people, and doesn't really do any better. Their paste is great tho.
February 14, 2007 11:29:31 AM

Their paste doesn't perform any better than AS5, right. BUT it's soo much simpler to apply.

I was building my rig (with as5) while my best friend was building a completely new e6400 based rig. He doesn't have any insight in the physical side of computers, but still he was much faster about the paste stuff than I was, and didn't have to bother with wiping anything off fingers or other places .... Performance it'll be a draw most likely, but it's soo much easier to apply. If I wouldn't use some cheapass white stuff at work, I'd much rather have the zalman stuff than as5 ....


ps. he bought a 9700 for his rig - and forget it - it ain't bad, but you can get a ninja for half, and it's just as effective, and much easier to install (if you have room for the big block). A tuniq is nice too I suppose, but it's more expensive and most likely not nessecary for adequate cooling.

In short, go with a scythe ninja 1100b or a freezer
February 14, 2007 12:11:57 PM

Perhaps my post wasn't clear enough. Sorry about that.

1) I never said the zalman is better than tuniq. I know the tuniq is supposed to be the best on the market. But it has the same problem as zalman does - it's too pricy. No normal overclock would need that extra performance the tuniq can provide (as compared to a ninja or freezer), and those who do need that extra performance, don't ask for suggestions here, they already know the answers.
2) As for the price of the zalman stuff - since it's included with the zalman cooler it has a price tag of zero. If you have to buy it seperately, you'll have to compare the price to as5, as that's the competative product. My point with the stg1 was that it was the only good thing to come from buying a zalman other than the looks of the cooler, which is irrelevant.
3) Yes I do know what I'm talking about. I don't have thausands of posts, but I do have plenty of experience to base my posts on. Particularily on the as5 and stg1 and the zalman vs. ninja (which costs half of a 9700 in europe), since I've tried out those in december.

Anyhow, if you're so goddam smart and think everybody else is wrong, do take a moment and give me the answer to my question in this thread here
February 14, 2007 12:17:22 PM

Doesn't that make it a little more difficult? :) 
February 14, 2007 12:54:15 PM

Quote:
not really, the nail polish applier included in the head of the stg1 bottle makes it slightly easier to apply, but not worth it

If the price of stg1 and as5 is the same it is worth it.... but I don't know if it is, since it came with a cooler. If it costs twice as much no, but if the cost is the same, it's definetly an improvement over as5 for userfriendlynes.

Quote:
And in the US, the tuniq is cheaper than the 9700 on most sites

That could be. It was out of stock on newegg when I upgraded last I noticed, but the price was set at 55 or so, and the zalman was around 60 minus 10 at the time .... anyhow, the point of mine wasn't wether the tuniq or the zalman is best. Everyone sais tuniq, so that's likely right. My point was, that tuniqs extra performance compared to those coolers at half its price isn't nessecary for the average overclocker. You're effectively wasting 25-30$ on a better cooler if you buy one of those instead of the cheap scythe or AC models, cause you'll hit other barriers before you hit cpu temperature barriers with either of them. Now you can start arguing about the shortened lifespan, but it's no shorter than it would be with the stock one, it's merely clocking better.
February 14, 2007 1:06:51 PM

opty 165 or 170, get a zalman cooler and overclock it up the yin yang, bonus the optys have 1Mb cache per core not 512Kb like the 4200
February 14, 2007 1:14:37 PM

Don't get the zalman damnit! that's teh whole point of half the posts here!
Get the AC one or a ninja, or if you want overkill pay double and get the tuniq ... but don't get the zalman unless it's a pc for showcasing (the looks are cool).


ps. opteron all the way. They're built to last forever (at stock speed), not just long enough to outlive the 1 year warrenty.
February 14, 2007 2:14:59 PM

Quote:
Don't get the zalman damnit! that's teh whole point of half the posts here!
Get the AC one or a ninja, or if you want overkill pay double and get the tuniq ... but don't get the zalman unless it's a pc for showcasing (the looks are cool).


ps. opteron all the way. They're built to last forever (at stock speed), not just long enough to outlive the 1 year warrenty.


Thanks for all the advice..... I was already going to get the Arctic Freezer 64, I just was unsure between a 4800+ and an opteron 170, but Tacos kindly helped with that, and I ordered the Opty last week. I'll post results of my OC on this board when the chip arrives. :) 
April 15, 2007 4:01:14 PM

Question, I've currently got an A64-3200+ that I've o/c'd (so far) to 2.5, it runs fine, and I could probably get a little more out of it, but I'm wondering if its worth getting the Opteron 170 Denmark and overclocking that?
What would the overclocked Opteron (at say, 2.8 in case I can't get it to 3.0 for whatever reason) be roughly equivalent to when compared with the C2D's?
I *already* have a zalmann on the 3200 that I would use with the Opteron for cooling.

For some context, this is all for my HTPC, so its not a gaming rig, but being able to play back h264 is important to me as well as transcode my mpeg2 HDTV recordings to x264 for archiving.

thanks!
April 15, 2007 5:23:32 PM

Manchester and Toledo, not the Windsor!!! Both the Manchester and Toledo are 939!
April 15, 2007 5:25:48 PM

I got the Zalman 9500LED on sale ($40); it's mounted on a skt 939 64X2 4400 in an Antec Nine Hundred case and even in hard gaming (a friend, I don't game) it doesn't hit 50C. If I run Prime95 (X2--both cores and full CPU usage) I can get the temp above 55C, but it has never seen 60C, even running 2X Prime95 for 24 hrs.

The cooler works for me and looks great in the Antec case... :D 

Just my 2 cents worth...
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April 15, 2007 5:49:32 PM

I have an Ultra/Zalman on my FX-60 @2.8GHz. It is the old fan that blows down on the CPU and looks like a mushroom (I have the 120MM version). I love it because I put a side fan with CPU duct that blows cool air directly on the CPU. That keeps it at 28C idle and 45C max (35C during games). I call it a Ultra/Zalman because it really is an Ultra but it looks exactly like the old Zalman 7000 series. It is also very cheap for the copper version (sub-$40).
November 8, 2007 3:34:02 PM

barryJ said:
i have toledo 939 11x245fsb@ 2.7 GHz 1.46v idle33c load 46c H20

max i have gone to is :- 255fsb with clock gen 2.8ghz 1.56v did not try higher was not sure about the voltage read 1.6v MAX

stepping JH-E6
cpuid 00020F32h


:o  1.56 OMFG yeah needless to say very bad idea to run with voltages so high

side note:

I feel ripped off... I ordered a 939 X2 4200+ toledo w\ E6 stepping (OEM) from tigerdirect.ca
so I received my stuff and on the oem packaging invoice AND website it says I ordered a AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ Processor - 2.20GHz, 512KB Cache, 1000MHz (2000 MT/s) FSB, Toledo, Dual-Core, OEM, Socket 939, ADA4200DAA5CD, Processor

ADA4200DAA5CD = 939 X2 4200+ toledo w\ E6 stepping

so I flip over the packaging only to find this: ADA4200DAA5BV on the CPU

ADA4200DAA5BV = 939 X2 4200+ manchester w\ E4 stepping

WTF?!?! needless to say this will be the last time I order anything from tigerdirect again! This is the third time they have messed with me and I'm p!$$ed....

any recommendations on what I could do to get back/even with them... I am calling customer service at tigerdirect and trying to get some sort of reimbursement.... and if they are unwilling to co-operate I think I may have to inform the better business bureau to launch an investigation for false advertising and mislabeling stock.....

I know it's a similiar item but that's not the point I was told I ordered one thing and received another thing that was mislabeled .... it a principal of the thing... how many other innocent people are in the same situation but didn't check the CPU codes. it's not fair. you're supposed to be a computer company... try learning about the product you are selling :fou:  :fou:  :fou: 

so yeah anyother thoughts?
!