What we all have to remember.

[dasickninja]

As I look around the Forumz, there are more and more people looking to build systems for whatever reason they might have. That's more than cool with me. That's what it all about. Computers and the technology of today is something that we all should enjoy. It bridges the digital divide, bringing people from Australia, Canada, Germany, England, Latin America and the Caribbean, America, Asia, Africa and where ever you are, together. Languages , religion and politics all disappear when we come together to discuss A64 vs EM64 or the overall coolness that the Conroe architecture has shown us. Or how AMD is still a player in the processor market and will continue to help in innovation.

There are those that like Intel, those that prefer AMD, people that love VIA and Cyrix. Mac lovers. IBM people. Performance minded individuals. The list of those of us that make up the Forumz goes on and on.

But now, more and more people are ready to jump on each other when one person recommends one thing or the other. Yes, this is the era of the Core 2. Tis the season for Intel Fanboys. It's the biggest thing since K8 and sliced bread.

There's alot of complaining about this and such issues though. Insults are being hurled back and forth. "You're a Fanboy", "You're a n00b", these are the common statements that we read. By no means I am saying that I'm completely innocent of insults, but this is about reflection and growth as both people and enthusiasts.

Aren't we forgetting something though? What we are really here for?
What truly is a Forum? It is a public meeting or assembly for open discussion. Open discussion. Letting yourself and other people have their opinions, but still basing what you say in this open place in truth and fact.
You can like what ever brand you want but remember when you post here, it isn't just for yourself. This is a public place. People that know less than you and I also linger here. I'm not saying that we have to be 100% correct, because we're all human and by default, fallible. Heck, I'm wrong alot of the time... But do the best you can to speak the truth, and post facts. FUD, statements rooted in untruth, and frivolous claims are counter productive to what this place is all about.

What about how we recommend products to people? This seems to come up more now that the price of computers and components drop to levels where it is more feasible for more people to "get connected". Since this is a CPU forum, I'll put it like this.

Some people still have 939. Some people still have Pentium D's or board that have the D chips as its highest supported processors. Some people still have 478 or Socket A. For alot of people, Dell, HP, Cyberpower or E-machines would be the best thing for them. Some people like McDonald's others like Burger King. Its all a matter of choice and circumstance. If someone is building a system from scratch (like progressing to a new socket) the best advice at this time would be to go to Core 2.

But, if they have AM2 or don't want to switch from 939, we have the obligation as responsible Forumz members to get off our asses and research what chip in that lineup would be best for them. If someone is looking into buying a computer for there parents, friends or significant other and they have a very limited budget, it might be best to send them to one of the companies that do prebuilts. We can still recommend, but give them the answer they're looking for, or if you feel more like teaching, point them in the right direction.

I get the feeling that this will attract flames but, I don't care and I feel the need for this to be said. I'm not pontificating, or putting anyone down. This is just for us all, to keep in mind. AMD, Intel, Dell or what have you... it's all the same. We're just here to help people. Let them decide how to spend their money and help them to learn and pay it foward.
Ja ne friends,
Ninja

EDIT: (I apologize for the long windedness of this post. I just had to get that off my chest. The intergrity of the Forumz is an imprtant matter to me. Post your replies. I'm thinking we're all of the same mind here. Atleast thats what I hope.)

 

[qcmadness]

Good post of the day 8)

 

[NMDante]

Nice post.

My only "complaint" is that when someone asks for advice, they should have done some research, prior to asking suggestions. For example, if someone was upgrading a 939 system, they should have certain CPUs that they are interested in, and ask for a comparasion of each. Forum people shouldn't have to do all the legwork for them, unless they feel inclined to do so. To simply ask what would be a good computer isn't going to get too many informative posts. Just posts about what system "we" would like. I will give advice to someone who gives me a better idea of what they are looking for or can afford, rather than what is the best system I can build out of my own wish list. Also, if they want to build an AMD system, I usually stay out of it, since I really don't have too much hands on with those systems, but I will post when someone gives misinformation or uses their own opinion as "fact".

Also, I agree about the whole fanboy/fanboi thing. It's stupid. I work for Intel, and I am not going to claim that they had the best chips since the dawn of computing. Hell, Intel barely regained the performance crown, and AMD might take it back with their new CPU. It's been that way for years.

 

[dasickninja]

My only "complaint" is that when someone asks for advice, they should have done some research, prior to asking suggestions. For example, if someone was upgrading a 939 system, they should have certain CPUs that they are interested in, and ask for a comparasion of each. Forum people shouldn't have to do all the legwork for them, unless they feel inclined to do so. To simply ask what would be a good computer isn't going to get too many informative posts.

You've got no complaint from me there. When someone does there own research, especially on this site, it might make them less inclined to just post and disappear. It could in my opinion make them want to do more that just ask questions and actually be a contributing member of the community.

 

[NMDante]

My only "complaint" is that when someone asks for advice, they should have done some research, prior to asking suggestions. For example, if someone was upgrading a 939 system, they should have certain CPUs that they are interested in, and ask for a comparasion of each. Forum people shouldn't have to do all the legwork for them, unless they feel inclined to do so. To simply ask what would be a good computer isn't going to get too many informative posts.

You've got no complaint from me there. When someone does there own research, especially on this site, it might make them more inclined to just post and disappear. It could in my opinion make them want to do more that just ask questions and actually be a contributing member of the community.

Totally agree.

It is easier for me to go look for products when they give a budget and an idea of what they intend to use their system for (ie. gaming and surfing, encoding, etc). Someone who comes in asking for a build for gaming can get so many different configurations, from low end to high end, it's endless.

Also, having the OP give choices of CPUs, will give the forum a chance to research each CPU for the OPs intended use, or just get an opinion from someone who already has the CPU listed. It's easier to get the most information on a CPU purchase that way, imo.

Otherwise, very good post.

 

[spud]

As I look around the Forumz, there are more and more people looking to build systems for whatever reason they might have. That's more than cool with me. That's what it all about. Computers and the technology of today is something that we all should enjoy. It bridges the digital divide, bringing people from Australia, Canada, Germany, England, Latin America and the Caribbean, America, Asia, Africa and where ever you are, together. Languages , religion and politics all disappear when we come together to discuss A64 vs EM64 or the overall coolness that the Conroe architecture has shown us. Or how AMD is still a player in the processor market and will continue to help in innovation.

There are those that like Intel, those that prefer AMD, people that love VIA and Cyrix. Mac lovers. IBM people. Performance minded individuals. The list of those of us that make up the Forumz goes on and on.

But now, more and more people are ready to jump on each other when one person recommends one thing or the other. Yes, this is the era of the Core 2. Tis the season for Intel Fanboys. It's the biggest thing since K8 and sliced bread.

There's alot of complaining about this and such issues though. Insults are being hurled back and forth. "You're a Fanboy", "You're a n00b", these are the common statements that we read. By no means I am saying that I'm completely innocent of insults, but this is about reflection and growth as both people and enthusiasts.

Aren't we forgetting something though? What we are really here for?
What truly is a Forum? It is a public meeting or assembly for open discussion. Open discussion. Letting yourself and other people have their opinions, but still basing what you say in this open place in truth and fact.
You can like what ever brand you want but remember when you post here, it isn't just for yourself. This is a public place. People that know less than you and I also linger here. I'm not saying that we have to be 100% correct, because we're all human and by default, fallible. Heck, I'm wrong alot of the time... But do the best you can to speak the truth, and post facts. FUD, statements rooted in untruth, and frivolous claims are counter productive to what this place is all about.

What about how we recommend products to people? This seems to come up more now that the price of computers and components drop to levels where it is more feasible for more people to "get connected". Since this is a CPU forum, I'll put it like this.

Some people still have 939. Some people still have Pentium D's or board that have the D chips as its highest supported processors. Some people still have 478 or Socket A. For alot of people, Dell, HP, Cyberpower or E-machines would be the best thing for them. Some people like McDonald's others like Burger King. Its all a matter of choice and circumstance. If someone is building a system from scratch (like progressing to a new socket) the best advice at this time would be to go to Core 2.

But, if they have AM2 or don't want to switch from 939, we have the obligation as responsible Forumz members to get off our asses and research what chip in that lineup would be best for them. If someone is looking into buying a computer for there parents, friends or significant other and they have a very limited budget, it might be best to send them to one of the companies that do prebuilts. We can still recommend, but give them the answer they're looking for, or if you feel more like teaching, point them in the right direction.

I get the feeling that this will attract flames but, i don't care and I feel the need for this to be said. I'm not pontificating, or putting anyone own. This is just for us all, to keep in mind. AMD, Intel, Dell or what have you... it's all the same. We're just here to help people. Let them decide how to spend their money and help them to learn and pay it foward.
Ja ne friends,
Ninja

EDIT: (I apologize for the long windedness of this post. I just had to get that off my chest. The intergrity of the Forumz is an imprtant matter to me. Post your replies. I'm thinking we're all of the same mind here. Atleast thats what I hope.)

Word, Playa.

 

[Dante_Jose_Cuervo]

As I look around the Forumz, there are more and more people looking to build systems for whatever reason they might have. That's more than cool with me. That's what it all about. Computers and the technology of today is something that we all should enjoy. It bridges the digital divide, bringing people from Australia, Canada, Germany, England, Latin America and the Caribbean, America, Asia, Africa and where ever you are, together. Languages , religion and politics all disappear when we come together to discuss A64 vs EM64 or the overall coolness that the Conroe architecture has shown us. Or how AMD is still a player in the processor market and will continue to help in innovation.

There are those that like Intel, those that prefer AMD, people that love VIA and Cyrix. Mac lovers. IBM people. Performance minded individuals. The list of those of us that make up the Forumz goes on and on.

But now, more and more people are ready to jump on each other when one person recommends one thing or the other. Yes, this is the era of the Core 2. Tis the season for Intel Fanboys. It's the biggest thing since K8 and sliced bread.

There's alot of complaining about this and such issues though. Insults are being hurled back and forth. "You're a Fanboy", "You're a n00b", these are the common statements that we read. By no means I am saying that I'm completely innocent of insults, but this is about reflection and growth as both people and enthusiasts.

Aren't we forgetting something though? What we are really here for?
What truly is a Forum? It is a public meeting or assembly for open discussion. Open discussion. Letting yourself and other people have their opinions, but still basing what you say in this open place in truth and fact.
You can like what ever brand you want but remember when you post here, it isn't just for yourself. This is a public place. People that know less than you and I also linger here. I'm not saying that we have to be 100% correct, because we're all human and by default, fallible. Heck, I'm wrong alot of the time... But do the best you can to speak the truth, and post facts. FUD, statements rooted in untruth, and frivolous claims are counter productive to what this place is all about.

What about how we recommend products to people? This seems to come up more now that the price of computers and components drop to levels where it is more feasible for more people to "get connected". Since this is a CPU forum, I'll put it like this.

Some people still have 939. Some people still have Pentium D's or board that have the D chips as its highest supported processors. Some people still have 478 or Socket A. For alot of people, Dell, HP, Cyberpower or E-machines would be the best thing for them. Some people like McDonald's others like Burger King. Its all a matter of choice and circumstance. If someone is building a system from scratch (like progressing to a new socket) the best advice at this time would be to go to Core 2.

But, if they have AM2 or don't want to switch from 939, we have the obligation as responsible Forumz members to get off our asses and research what chip in that lineup would be best for them. If someone is looking into buying a computer for there parents, friends or significant other and they have a very limited budget, it might be best to send them to one of the companies that do prebuilts. We can still recommend, but give them the answer they're looking for, or if you feel more like teaching, point them in the right direction.

I get the feeling that this will attract flames but, I don't care and I feel the need for this to be said. I'm not pontificating, or putting anyone down. This is just for us all, to keep in mind. AMD, Intel, Dell or what have you... it's all the same. We're just here to help people. Let them decide how to spend their money and help them to learn and pay it foward.
Ja ne friends,
Ninja

EDIT: (I apologize for the long windedness of this post. I just had to get that off my chest. The intergrity of the Forumz is an imprtant matter to me. Post your replies. I'm thinking we're all of the same mind here. Atleast thats what I hope.)

Awesome post, completely agree with you here. To all people looking for advice and are looking through this here's a word of wisdom: Give us an idea of what you're looking for, like if you're upgrading give us some idea of what hardware you're looking at. I'm tired of people ask like, "what should I upgrade to?" but don't give any info of like what they're doing or what they're looking at. We will critique and we will give you plenty of help, but just work with us!

But yeah, DaSickNinja, awesome post.

 

[1KGH]

It is hard to research when you don't have a clue. Assembling the parts is easy compared to choosing where to cut corners to stay within your budget.

 

[atp777]

Great post Ninja. Been waiting for someone to say something like this. I still consider myself new to the forumz, but I am trying to learn all that I can.

 

[atp777]

The Forumz point you to the FAQs and stickies. Anyone who doesn't have a clue and usually find what they need there, and then after that small amount of research, they can then ask the experts here on what to do next or configurations they would suggest.

I have found myself browsing these FAQs many times and I usually will find what I need.

 

[dasickninja]

Thank you.
There is no hard and fast rule on how to post but it believe it's proper netiquite to put as much information as you can into your question. Like this:

Pasted below is the system I plan to build myself, or at least the system I think would be good. I'm not new to this but have paid little attention to the new processors war and what not for about a year so am simply a little out of touch!!

The system is an upgrade from my current P4 3GHz, 2GB (4x512) PC4000 Kingmax in dual channel, Leadtek 6800GT and 350W true power supply on a basic ASRock P4V88+.

I know that in most cases the Core 2 Duo beats the Athlons hand down (not bad for me, always been a Pentium man anyway) so my questions are as follows:

* Can anyone better the system listed, or offer good improvement...and by improvements i dont only want to hear about spending more money!! If there is something someone can suggest that would reduce the cost that's great.
* Also, whats this about using certain speeds of memory (DDR2) with certain CPU's?
* Hows the chipset on that mobo?
* Finally, would you actually upgrade now from my system above or wait...and wait for what? I am only bothered about gaming performance...imo application performance is irrelevant nowadays.

Lots of questions i know but i appreciate any help in clarifying. Thanks.


Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 RET 2x 2.13 2Mb 1066 MHz LGA775 BX805576400 £132.99 £132.99

Asus P5LD2/C i945P Socket 775 PCI-E / Gb LAN / DUAL CH DDR2 / SATA(II) RAID / CONROE, CORE 2 DUO READY / ATX MOTHERBOARD £61.65 £61.65

OCZ 2GB kit EL DDR2 PC2-6400 / 800 Gold Gamer eXtreme / XTC Edition / Life time warranty OCZ2G8002GK 2x1GB £172.95 £172.95

Hiper 530W TRUE POWER PSU ATX 2.2 Silent 120mm Fan SATA, APFC, SILENT 16db £40.00 £40.00

Gainward BLISS 7950GT 512MB PCI-E DDR3 Dual DVI SLI HDR Mfr# 471846200-8101 £183.98 £183.98

Total : £695.10 inc VAT

 

[3lfk1ng]

Great post DaSickNinja. I couldn't agree with you more. NMdante, I too wish people would do some research on there own, it would make the job easier, as well as educate people. Afterall newegg is great and this is the place to learn

 

[dasickninja]

It is hard to research when you don't have a clue. Assembling the parts is easy compared to choosing where to cut corners to stay within your budget.

True but how can you learn if you don't look. There is a saying that goes, "How can I see if I do not look."

@3lfk1ng
Much thanks my friend.

 

[Dante_Jose_Cuervo]

Oh yeah, I think we're all here to learn. The thing is that sometimes people just come here, ask for advice, and then don't remember what we tell them. In one ear and out the other (even though we're not actually talking to them). Even I'm new to the forumz, but I build off of what I learn here. Actually, I should get back to my final build thread. I've gone through just about everything but need it critiqued one last time. You guys can have fun with it if you want.

 

[Guest]

Yup, sad thing is that people reading/replying/agreeing , are those who understand and apply what you just said! :roll:

 

[Hicks121]

ROCK ON Brotha!!! Great post!!!

 

[RichPLS]

Good post and I agree mostly with statements regarding flaming and fanboism...

Yet this is an open forum which posters have opinions which sometimes contrast with facts... and as far as recommending products or upgrades which are based on facts like advising to consider a different platform that costs the same or less yet offers greater performance at lower thermals would constitute the essence of what these forumz are thriving on.

 

[dasickninja]

ROCK ON Brotha!!! Great post!!!

Thank you. You are all too kind. My thinking is that as Wusy has "retired" the rest of us need to step up to the plate intellectually and personally. If you go back to the original posts on page 830 or so, we can see how to better help people and be better helped.

 

[Mobius]

You're a Fanboy, you n00b!!111!11one!1!

 

[NMDante]

It is hard to research when you don't have a clue. Assembling the parts is easy compared to choosing where to cut corners to stay within your budget.

Well, if someone wants to build a new system, then a budget is good. If they have a preference of CPUs, then mention that fact.

I am not expecting someone to come on and ask for details about how the Core 2 Duo works differently from the X2, just what would be a better build for encoding, gaming, or general use between the two.

Look around retail/etail sites for prices for budget constraints. That's researching. Look at hardware sites for reviews/comparasions of CPUs for what they can or cannot do well. That's researching. That is all I am talking about, not make a white paper or presentation for the forum.

 

[Talon]

I couldn't agree more. Etiquette is indeed more important than some might think from some responces I've seen in these forums over the years. I am never one to condescend because I feel everyone is still learning each and every day. If you think you know it all and can stop learning new things everyone else will eventually pass you by.

In the world of technology there is almost never a purely right or wrong answer to someones question in regards to a build or even a gadget I'd say. We should search the needs of others then form "our opinion" based on that persons said needs. It still might not be quite the answer the person is looking for but the more information they have to go on the better as long as its based on fact or truth as you stated.

On a less serious sidenote, didn't I see you die on cartoon network just this past saturday? That was a bit of a letdown as I was hoping to see your character fleshed out a little :lol:

 

[dasickninja]

Netiquette is something that we all seem to forget more and more. Sometimes though when you see a bunch of people seemingly slamming or flaming one person, it is one, because there is a history of this person posting FUD and unsubstantiated "facts" and two, because a "newbie" posts something outright untrue and doesn't recant or change his potion when shown facts to the contrary.
And yes I died, something in the order of 2 years ago in the Japanese version. I wish he survived though.

 

[nategarst]

Very good post Ninja.

 

[gorgerax]

Can we all...get along? Can we all just...get along??? :lol:

 

[Talon]

Thats a real shame, I used to follow anime much more closely and try to keep up with Japan releases. Nowadays with family and such I don't have time so I just see things when they are released here or if its really a hot item I hear about that likely won't come here then I look up other sources.

I also agree with your reasons and definitions quite closely. I always say that real men are big enough to admit their mistakes. It does no good anyway to outright and knowingly spread falsehoods as there is always someone who will spot it and you only stand to look foolish afterwards. I for one "try" not to look foolish.

I have of course been wrong my fair share tho