OK Ive done my research... review my upgrade?

[johan21]

Hey guys

Well BF2142 has just shown me the light, and I believe it is time for an overhaul of my core stuff....... I do a bit of everything at the moment (jack of all, master of none).. CPU intensive music making, gaming, 3dsmax and video... I'd say I'm generally getting by pretty OK with my current system but its definitely feeling outdated for games given I still always play in 1024 x 768 and occasionally think about going down to 800 x 600.

CPU
Currently: P4 3Ghz
Proposed: Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4 Ghz
Price: $480 AU or $360 USD
This is kind of a mid-range one of the new Core 2 Duos, at the right price for me. Its in the top five or so in benchmarks I've seen. I'm kind of an intel fan.

Vid card
Currently: Radeon 9800XT 256 meg PCI
Proposed: GeCube X1900XT 256 meg PCI-E
Price: $399 AU or $300 USD
The 256 meg of this card is significantly cheaper than the 512meg. Was recommended by Tomshardware.com recently as best card in its price range.

Mobo
Currently: Soltek
Proposed: Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3
Price $273AU or $205 USD
I just need a mobo thats made for Core 2 duo and provides RAID capability... i know the gigabyte brand..

Ram
Currently: 1gig DDRAM
Proposed: DDR2 OCZ PC2-5400 2GB 1024MBX2 SOE XTC EDITION (667 MHz)
Price $343 AU or $257 USD
I hear 2gigs is sensible for gaming these days and I know would come in handy for 3dsmax.

All up: $1500 roughly or $1125 USD. Seems like a decent enough deal to me...
And... I've done my google based research but in general really don't know what I'm doing here


[/list]

 

[muffins]

what PSU? cause you might need to buy a new one if its not up to snuff with that new vid card yer gettin

 

[quantumsheep]

Hey guys

Well BF2142 has just shown me the light, and I believe it is time for an overhaul of my core stuff....... I do a bit of everything at the moment (jack of all, master of none).. CPU intensive music making, gaming, 3dsmax and video... I'd say I'm generally getting by pretty OK with my current system but its definitely feeling outdated for games given I still always play in 1024 x 768 and occasionally think about going down to 800 x 600.

CPU
Currently: P4 3Ghz
Proposed: Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4 Ghz
Price: $480 AU or $360 USD
This is kind of a mid-range one of the new Core 2 Duos, at the right price for me. Its in the top five or so in benchmarks I've seen. I'm kind of an intel fan.

Vid card
Currently: Radeon 9800XT 256 meg PCI
Proposed: GeCube X1900XT 256 meg PCI-E
Price: $399 AU or $300 USD
The 256 meg of this card is significantly cheaper than the 512meg. Was recommended by Tomshardware.com recently as best card in its price range.

Mobo
Currently: Soltek
Proposed: Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3
Price $273AU or $205 USD
I just need a mobo thats made for Core 2 duo and provides RAID capability... i know the gigabyte brand..

Ram
Currently: 1gig DDRAM
Proposed: DDR2 OCZ PC2-5400 2GB 1024MBX2 SOE XTC EDITION (667 MHz)
Price $343 AU or $257 USD
I hear 2gigs is sensible for gaming these days and I know would come in handy for 3dsmax.

All up: $1500 roughly or $1125 USD. Seems like a decent enough deal to me...
And... I've done my google based research but in general really don't know what I'm doing here


[/list]

All looks very good, but i wouldn't spend that much on RAM unless you intend to do some pretty heavy overclocking!

 

[ikjadoon]

That RAM is rather pricey. At NewEgg you can get OCZ DDR2-800 CAS4 for that much...

Is RAM just more expensive there?

~Ibrahim~

 

[johan21]

Thanks for comments guys

Muffins - its a 350W supply that came with my antec case...

http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=93703

any idea if it would do? How on earth do you even work that kind of thing out?

Quantumsheep + ikjadoon - i think you are getting at the fact that yes, everything is more expensive here. i need 2gig, and i've shopped around for 667 Mhz which seems mid-range speed ...and, er... thats a good price

 

[muffins]

Thanks for comments guys

Muffins - its a 350W supply that came with my antec case...

http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=93703

any idea if it would do? How on earth do you even work that kind of thing out?

Quantumsheep + ikjadoon - i think you are getting at the fact that yes, everything is more expensive here. i need 2gig, and i've shopped around for 667 Mhz which seems mid-range speed ...and, er... thats a good price

use this to figure out what youll need and or if your is enough

http://www.extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine

 

[johan21]

Interesting.... thanks for the link

It reckons I need 388 watts...

.... but it reckons i needed 372 watts before, and i havent had any problems with my 350 watt supply....yet...

 

[ikjadoon]

I feel wary putting a X1900XT with a 350W PSU. There are a some 350W PSUs, however, that do have 2x 18A 12V+ rails..

~Ibrahim~

P.S. That PSU has 25A on the 12V+. (10A+15A)

 

[johan21]

Thanks guys, I'm here to learn. Because of your comments (and having done some subsquent reading myself), I will be getting a new PSU even though its going to blow my budget...

The antec 550W, Truepower 2.0 has 2 12V rails with 19A per rail. I can't find wattage to the 12V rails and don't know if im smart enough to navigate the issues here.... but have read reviews where it was fine with high powered SLI systems (surely sucking more juice then my single card system).

http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=22550#

Essentially this one is looking good to me as its one of the cheapest available from the supplier im getting all my componetns from. $175 or $130 USD. Maybe I won't get my logitech G7 mouse now.. sigh.

PS: guys - aren't you all as annoyed as I am about having to buy a second copy of windows xp oem every time you upgrade?!?!

 

[johan21]

So you obtained an upgrade version previously, which is for people who owned Win2000 etc who move to XP. And this version isn't locked to a motherboard (when you activate xp with microsoft?)...

I haven't owned a previous copy of windows so couldnt get an upgrade version. I guess what you're talking about is a similar strategy to buying the full retail version... this also isnt locked to a mobo and could be transferred from comp to comp indefinitely. But its a few hundred $ more than the OEM and vistas probably around the corner...

 

[rwpritchett]

I have an upgrade copy (pre-SP1) that's on it's third computer. No upgrade limitation for me either, it really is considered a full version. Only downside is I've kept a copy of Windows 98 around for the last 6 years in case I need to reinstall WinXP :lol: I wonder if there's a way to slipstream the Win98 files that it needs to the Upgrade disc. Anyone ever try that?

 

[rwpritchett]

I've even installed WinXP using a crappy UPGRADE WinME disc. When I decide to go Vista, I think I might just spend the extra $100+ to get the full retail version so I can finally throw away Win98 and WinME.

 

[SuperFly03]

Ram
Currently: 1gig DDRAM
Proposed: DDR2 OCZ PC2-5400 2GB 1024MBX2 SOE XTC EDITION (667 MHz)
Price $343 AU or $257 USD
I hear 2gigs is sensible for gaming these days and I know would come in handy for 3dsmax.

Alright get rid of that 667 BS, straight up. Go 800 or 533, not 667. The reason is when you use 667 you run the FSB and the memory in asynchronous mode, that is you use a 5/4 divider to get 667 out of a 266 FSB. The problem is that the new Core 2 Duo uses a much shorter pipeline and is sensitive to latency changes, and using a 5/4 divider increases the latency of the RAM more than the speed increase so you really net a loss in performance. If you use 800, the actual speed increase outweighs the increased latency giving you a performance boost, and 533 runs synchronus with the FSB so there is absolute minimum latency.

http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getarticle&articID=472

Check that out.

Side note: About XP, just call to activate it and bitch out the activation people and say you upgraded until they give you an activation code. Their lives suck already, I mean come on, giving out activation codes all day? They should give you a code just to shut you up lol.

 

[muffins]

Thanks guys, I'm here to learn. Because of your comments (and having done some subsquent reading myself), I will be getting a new PSU even though its going to blow my budget...

The antec 550W, Truepower 2.0 has 2 12V rails with 19A per rail. I can't find wattage to the 12V rails and don't know if im smart enough to navigate the issues here.... but have read reviews where it was fine with high powered SLI systems (surely sucking more juice then my single card system).

http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=22550#

Essentially this one is looking good to me as its one of the cheapest available from the supplier im getting all my componetns from. $175 or $130 USD. Maybe I won't get my logitech G7 mouse now.. sigh.

PS: guys - aren't you all as annoyed as I am about having to buy a second copy of windows xp oem every time you upgrade?!?!

Power = voltage x amps....but it shouldnt matter much. the amps are the main focus which that PSU has no problems with

 

[SuperFly03]

It's possible, I am just saying. you could get 667 and it would give you headroom to OC, or you get get 667 and drop the timings at 533. The point is, don't leave it set at 667 on the mobo, because thats what it will boot to defaultly on POST. So you are right, I just made it seem like don't buy it at all when my point was don't leave it set at 667 in the bios.

 

[rwpritchett]

It's possible, I am just saying. you could get 667 and it would give you headroom to OC, or you get get 667 and drop the timings at 533. The point is, don't leave it set at 667 on the mobo, because thats what it will boot to defaultly on POST. So you are right, I just made it seem like don't buy it at all when my point was don't leave it set at 667 in the bios.

I agree with logainofhades about 667 being a good thing. You can get tighter timings at 533 speeds, it costs about the same as 533, it can be run easily at 800 speeds, plus when 1333 FSB processors come out you can run synchronously then at 667. No harm in getting the 667 RAM now. I do agree with SuprFly03 that you should never run at 667 speed unless its through overclocking.

 

[ikjadoon]

FYI: Total current output is not the sum of the rails. You need to know how many watts are on the combined 12v rails then divide that buy the 12v. This gives you the true total current output. Check the link belowe. Though a 350W PSU may have 18A on each of 2 +12v rails it's not going to be supllying 36A. At max each rail by it self may beable to susain 18A but both rails will not be able to sustain 18A at the same time. This is why you need to know how much power is on the combined +12v rails. Before you can figure out the amount of current they provide.

I did not know that, thanks for pointing it out!

~Ibrahim~

 

[johan21]

Cheers again guys, this is all very helpful for me.

OK so thumbs up on the antec 550W, good to hear.

As for the memory, based on past track record, this will be my last upgrade for a while... basically the next time I upgrade is likely to be 4 yrs from now and will be mobo, cpu and ram all over again. I am also not likely to be getting into overclocking.

On this basis and having quickly checked the benchmarks in the madshrimp article posted... seems like 800 Mhz memory would be the way to go for me since its not a whole lot more.

As for windows oem... heres the deal I have heard. Basically if you keep your windows install on your hd, then boot windows xp install after the upgrade, then go 'repair install' - you can reactivate. A call to microsoft is sometimes required as you say but may not be. And as you say, its apparently not a big deal getting an activation code in this situation. Touch wood.

So once again thanks for all your assistance guys, this is a great forum.\\

Edit: Probably will go for an OCZ 800 Mhz with 5-5-5-12 timing, not the best I know:
http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/memory/ocz_ddr2_pc2_6400_special_ops_edition

 

[ikjadoon]

That memory is fine. The CAS4 version is around $40 more. Good chance you can tighten the timings when you get it.

~Ibrahim~