MaxForce Reviewed: 3-Way SLI and 4 GHz+
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Solaris Computer Systems changed its name to MaxForce PC and set its top-tier Revolution GTX3 system down at our table. Let’s see how the beast measures up to some tough competition.
MaxForce Reviewed: 3-Way SLI and 4 GHz+ : Read more
MaxForce Reviewed: 3-Way SLI and 4 GHz+ : Read more
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neiroatopelcc
October 16, 2008 11:08:29 AM
"xtras 1BG USB Flash Drive http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_drive , Assassin ’s Creed (game)" on page 2 - sure u don't mean 1GB?
Score
-1
wahdangun
October 16, 2008 11:16:06 AM
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random1283
October 16, 2008 12:00:07 PM
Pei-chen
October 16, 2008 12:33:46 PM
3 years warranty and water cooling don't go together. Water cooling requires too much maintenance compare with high-end air cooling.
The choice of 2GB memory and Vista 32 sounds like a joke. Think of telling your friends your $4000+ system is running 2GB and Vista 32. 4GB should be minimum and 8GB optional.
The choice of 2GB memory and Vista 32 sounds like a joke. Think of telling your friends your $4000+ system is running 2GB and Vista 32. 4GB should be minimum and 8GB optional.
Score
2
Shadow703793
October 16, 2008 12:50:12 PM
Are you kidding me? Offering 2GB of RAM and a 32 bit OS shouldn't even be a consideration when paying $4000+ for a performance machine. Give me a break: OEM builder Vista 64 is like $80 and I am sure you can get 'volume' discounts for boutique builders like these. Tossing in the other 2GB of DDR3 shouldn't set you back any more than $50 (again, volume purchase discounts).
I say OS switch-out is negligible cost. You MIGHT see minor price increase due to 4GB RAM as opposed to 2Gb...but still 4GB should be the starting point in a system with this hardware.
Running 3 280's? You are using over 1/2 your available system memory allocation due to GDDR. 64 bit only.
I say OS switch-out is negligible cost. You MIGHT see minor price increase due to 4GB RAM as opposed to 2Gb...but still 4GB should be the starting point in a system with this hardware.
Running 3 280's? You are using over 1/2 your available system memory allocation due to GDDR. 64 bit only.
Score
-3
smyter_m
October 16, 2008 1:44:35 PM
their website down? www.solaris-pc.com?
Score
0
rubix_1011Are you kidding me? Offering 2GB of RAM and a 32 bit OS shouldn't even be a consideration when paying $4000+ for a performance machine.
Please tell me you're not serious. 2GB and Vista 32 is no good for a gaming machine? What are you guys smoking?
If you guys can provide some evidence that Vista 32 can't stand up to Vista 64 when gaming, I'd be real interested in seeing it. 2 GB or not.
It sounds to me like you gents are getting caught up in leetness without looking at the bottom line. Vista 64 and 8GB of RAM aren't going to supply higher framerates, gents.
I thought we were about tangible performance, not bragging rights.
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2
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1
Pei-chen3 years warranty and water cooling don't go together. Water cooling requires too much maintenance compare with high-end air cooling.
Falcon and HP managed to do it, admittedly with a slightly lower warranty. Frankly, chances are it will keep the CPU working longer.
On a side note, MaxForce let me know that they will install custom kit like water cooling at the customer's request.
Score
1
Quote:
rubix_1011 :
Are you kidding me? Offering 2GB of RAM and a 32 bit OS shouldn't even be a consideration when paying $4000+ for a performance machine.
Please tell me you're not serious. 2GB and Vista 32 is no good for a gaming machine? What are you guys smoking?
If you guys can provide some evidence that Vista 32 can't stand up to Vista 64 when gaming, I'd be real interested in seeing it. 2 GB or not.
It sounds to me like you gents are getting caught up in leetness without looking at the bottom line. Vista 64 and 8GB of RAM aren't going to supply higher framerates, gents.
I thought we were about tangible performance, not bragging rights.
Do you even understand the limitations of a 32 bit OS and how RAM and video memory come to factor...? That's not even beginning to say that Vista really needs 2GB minimum to perform well enough to be considered 'performance' anything. Start running CPU and GPU intensive software, which cut into that, and you see some real issues.
I never said that Vista 32 wasn't capable for gaming...but when you are paying $4000 for a PERFORMANCE machine, 32 bit OS shouldn't even be an option and 4GB RAM should be the baseline. We aren't talking about frugality and DIY on a budget. We are speaking of high-performance boutique PCs being limited by an OS due to memory allocation.
Score
1
rubix_1011Do you even understand the limitations of a 32 bit OS and how RAM and video memory come to factor...?
Vague questions about what I understand is not proof that Vista 64 and 4 GB is faster, Rubix.
I've yet to see proof that it is. If I'm wrong, I'd love to see some evidence of this. From what I've seen so far tho, more RAM rarely means increased game performance, it usually means quicker loading times at best when it comes to a gaming machine.
Then again, instead of complaining how it's so deficient, let's look at the benchmarks: the MaxForce manages to school it's HP and Falcon competitors is Crysis like they're standing still... even though those competitors have Vista 64 and 4GB of RAM.
If it's me whose having trouble understanding the limitations, I invite you to provide proof that I'm so off base...
Score
-1
Forget it, my argument was against using a 32 bit OS in a high performance machine costing $4000+ when a 64bit OS offers the ability to use more RAM for more performance...not only in gaming, but in applications in general. I don't see the purpose when these builds are meant to offer high quantities of system memory to be allocated and used by the system. I guess if you want to drum 32 bit, feel free. I think you and I are attempting to validate different points.
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1
I don't know if we're attempting to validate diffrent points as much as we're disagreeing on the impact 4GB and a 64-bit OS makes in 95% of applications.
I don't think you'd see a diffrence in most things - in fact, Vista 64 is still a bit slower when it comes to gaming, so Vista 32 is a solid choice for a gaming rig.
If you want a workstation, and use apps that can take advantage of a 64-bit OS and gobs of RAM, then just order the machine with Vista-64 and 8GB. Great!
But does that invalidate Vista-32 as a good choice for a high-end gaming machine? Hell no. Certainly not to the extent that you guys are slamming it so vocally.
I don't think you'd see a diffrence in most things - in fact, Vista 64 is still a bit slower when it comes to gaming, so Vista 32 is a solid choice for a gaming rig.
If you want a workstation, and use apps that can take advantage of a 64-bit OS and gobs of RAM, then just order the machine with Vista-64 and 8GB. Great!
But does that invalidate Vista-32 as a good choice for a high-end gaming machine? Hell no. Certainly not to the extent that you guys are slamming it so vocally.
Score
0
jorgisven
October 16, 2008 3:22:21 PM
wahdangun"a GDDR3 motherboard, and no less than three of the fastest video cards money can buy"hmmm i think it have alot of typo in here
I agree. Also -"2GB (2x 1GB) Supertalent GDDR3-1800 CL7-7-7" That's not Gddr3. That's just DDR3.
Also, in reference to going to 4GB. I agree that 2GB is insufficient. However, remembering that it is DDR3, it may add a few hundred in cost, actually. Possibly 2-300, even. DDR3 is still not cheap, particularly the high quality high speed stuff. On newegg, the RAM listed above goes for $189 for the kit. A lower clocked kit (12800, instead of 14400) goes for 329. A higher clocked version, if it were available would be at least an additional $200 more. While I agree a 5% price increase for more memory would give you more than a 5% performance increase, it's nothing to sneeze at. I definitely think 2GB is laughable in a machine like this. But a RAM upgrade would not be cheap if you bought this system.
Score
-3
stridervm
October 16, 2008 3:24:18 PM
scook9
October 16, 2008 3:31:57 PM
You keep talking about air cooling and how it is going to kill the CPU over time, here is an idea, show some CPU temps! Numbers speak louder than words, and dont have opinions. That being said, a high end air cooling rig can woop a $100-$150 watercooling rig as well as save you the maintanence and risks. water cooling is still limited to the ambient air temperature in the room, so it really doesnt have much to offer that air cooling doesn't. With the new TRUE copper coming out, i'd go for that in a heartbeat over a similarly priced watercooling rig (Swiftech 120). Especially in a high airflow case like the Antec 1200 (which is dam near silent with all fans on high I'll add).Copper TRUE with 2 Scythe S-Flex's in push-pull, and for about $140, you got an air cooling rig that is really gonna beat or be on par with ANY water cooling (not including TEC of course) and NO risk to other components or maintanence. So if you are going to continue making the statement that air cooling will kill the cpu over time, please, just back it up, show us some temps from the mentioned systems, we aren't stupid, let us decide.
Score
3
wavebossa
October 16, 2008 3:38:23 PM
wavebossa
October 16, 2008 3:39:46 PM
zodiacfml
October 16, 2008 4:53:12 PM
the maxforce system is built with engineering and crysis in mind. kinda like the automotive industry, efficient.
air cooling vs watercooling - if they can overclock the processor to 4ghz reliably, then air cooling is sufficient
vista 32 - 64bit support is not much,no performance benefit
2 Gigs - for gaming alone very sufficient. for work and multitasking, it is easy to add more memory, though expensive DDR3.
those cuts allowed it to be priced cheaper compared to the falcon and HP.
if it weren't for crysis,3-sli of gtx280 is a waste.
air cooling vs watercooling - if they can overclock the processor to 4ghz reliably, then air cooling is sufficient
vista 32 - 64bit support is not much,no performance benefit
2 Gigs - for gaming alone very sufficient. for work and multitasking, it is easy to add more memory, though expensive DDR3.
those cuts allowed it to be priced cheaper compared to the falcon and HP.
if it weren't for crysis,3-sli of gtx280 is a waste.
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0
Vento
October 16, 2008 5:35:05 PM
Thank you for the continued good reviews on these boutique builders. Its nice to know there are other alternatives to the Dell's etc of the world. I am especially impressed with the warranty and the mild OC'ing to 4Ghz..I have just specced out a similiar type system on their website and may pull the trigger. Keep up the good work Tom's.
Score
1
Dekasav
October 16, 2008 8:31:12 PM
dencom17
October 16, 2008 9:27:29 PM
32 bit OS can only address 4 GB of memory.
That includes video memory from video cards.
4gb-3*1GB (there is 3 280GTX with 1 gb of memory each) = 1gb
So does that mean that we only have 1 gb of ram to play with?
Does that mean that system can only recongnise 1 GB of ram.
Correct me if im wrong, but i think 64 bit OS is more appropriate
That includes video memory from video cards.
4gb-3*1GB (there is 3 280GTX with 1 gb of memory each) = 1gb
So does that mean that we only have 1 gb of ram to play with?
Does that mean that system can only recongnise 1 GB of ram.
Correct me if im wrong, but i think 64 bit OS is more appropriate
Score
0
wonderingwhatis
October 16, 2008 11:06:04 PM
Cleeve
Well you clearly do have that opinion and mentioned that in your review which may influence many people's buying decision. Instead of simply saying you think its not going to last without watercooling; give us temps.
You have 2 similar systems that have watercooling units so give us temps from those as a comparison.
Also If the temps are the same or even close how could watercooling possibly lengthen the CPU's life; or better yet how could air cooling lower its life expectancy. The CPU doesn't care what is cooling it as long as its running cool....
Score
0
wonderingwhatis
October 16, 2008 11:10:55 PM
dencom1732 bit OS can only address 4 GB of memory. That includes video memory from video cards...
...Correct me if im wrong, but i think 64 bit OS is more appropriate
...Correct me if im wrong, but i think 64 bit OS is more appropriate
I believe 32-bit Vista can address a maximum of 3GB of memory, regardless of the video card memory.
Once again, a 64-bit OS would be more appropriate in a gaming rig if the increase in memory would provide a performance increase in games. It usually does not, in fact from what I've seen there is usually a slight performance decrease with the 64-bit version of the OS.
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0
wonderingwhatisYou have 2 similar systems that have watercooling units so give us temps from those as a comparison.
I'd love to, unfortunately we don't get to keep the systems we test.
But I will be happy to do a watercooling vs. Tuniq Tower 120 test if I get my hands on one. Wasn't my focus during the review but I certainly will take a closer look next time.
Score
1
jthorn
October 17, 2008 1:05:46 AM
Thanks for this review - it was very fair and well written. As an owner of a Maxforce custom desktop it is great to see them get some press. I asked Max to cbuild me a Q6600 on a P45 MB overclocked to 3.0 ghz equipped with a Sapphire 4850, after reading Cleeves monthly GPU reviews :-). I an 100 percent satisfied with my new computer. If I had asked for water cooling or 4ghz Max would have delivered that too for a great price and with a great warranty. Thanks for the great articles and I highly recommend Maxforce PC if you are looking for a better PC. God, this is a great thread, LOL.
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0
Max_MaxForcePC
October 17, 2008 2:38:32 AM
Hey everyone,
All those asking about the temps for the CPU. When we shipped the system out, the idle temps were around 28-32C at 4Ghz. At full load, with the tuniq fan at medium low, the temps peeked around 55-58C. However, during game play or applications the CPU never went over 50C.
We would never let a system leave the office if we thought the temps were not safe for prolonged use.
Let me know if you guys have any questions
All those asking about the temps for the CPU. When we shipped the system out, the idle temps were around 28-32C at 4Ghz. At full load, with the tuniq fan at medium low, the temps peeked around 55-58C. However, during game play or applications the CPU never went over 50C.
We would never let a system leave the office if we thought the temps were not safe for prolonged use.
Let me know if you guys have any questions
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0
To be honest this link shows 64-bit as good, and some times better(sometimes worse) then vista 32 across many video cards.
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/amd_nvidia_windows_...
I am going to have to say that Vista 64 and more ram would have made it a better all around machine. I have several games that take 1.5 gigs of ram while running, toss in a bit of multi-tasking and the extra ram would help.
But in the end, still a solid review and machine that kills mine
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/amd_nvidia_windows_...
I am going to have to say that Vista 64 and more ram would have made it a better all around machine. I have several games that take 1.5 gigs of ram while running, toss in a bit of multi-tasking and the extra ram would help.
But in the end, still a solid review and machine that kills mine
Score
0
iocedmyself
October 17, 2008 8:40:34 AM
Yes 64bit vista is better....yes 4 gigs or more should be the baseline for a gaming machine...however, intel chips do not fare well on 64bit vista, where as AMD chips see a 17%-25% performance increase in 64bit apps compared to 32bit performance.
Vista was designed to utilize every bit of the system it could...which is why depending on config the boot up memory usage for vista is between 900 megs on the low end, 1.5 gigs in my 4gig 64bit vista ultimate rig atm. 64bit crysis has topped out at 2.1 gigs of RAM useage that i've noticed.
So....yeah, look at who makes the cpu in those machines that perform worse in 64bit OS's because AMD has maintained it's avg 20% performance gain in 64bit apps since 939 days.
Vista was designed to utilize every bit of the system it could...which is why depending on config the boot up memory usage for vista is between 900 megs on the low end, 1.5 gigs in my 4gig 64bit vista ultimate rig atm. 64bit crysis has topped out at 2.1 gigs of RAM useage that i've noticed.
So....yeah, look at who makes the cpu in those machines that perform worse in 64bit OS's because AMD has maintained it's avg 20% performance gain in 64bit apps since 939 days.
Score
0
Arbie
October 17, 2008 2:38:41 PM
I'm impressed with MaxForce's capabilities and what folks say about the buying experience. If this 4GHz 3xSLI rig is reliable at full load (100% CPU and 100% GPU) for an extended period in a 80 degF room, on air... that's pretty good.
I do wish the review had measured noise and power draw, at least at idle. These are two *VERY* important factors in how well such a machine would live in my den. After all, anyone can build a loud, hot, fast box. I'm not saying that I expect the thing to run like a netbook. But if these topics were even mentioned, I missed it.
Arbie
I do wish the review had measured noise and power draw, at least at idle. These are two *VERY* important factors in how well such a machine would live in my den. After all, anyone can build a loud, hot, fast box. I'm not saying that I expect the thing to run like a netbook. But if these topics were even mentioned, I missed it.
Arbie
Score
0
If you're worried about power draw, a triple-SLI GTX 280 PC is not for you. I don't have a meter in my lab, unfortunately, but I'll see what I can do about getting one.
As for sound, I didn't take any measurements, but it was very quiet at idle although when playing demanding games the three graphics cards often became a lot noisier.
As for sound, I didn't take any measurements, but it was very quiet at idle although when playing demanding games the three graphics cards often became a lot noisier.
Score
1
nukemasterI am going to have to say that Vista 64 and more ram would have made it a better all around machine.
Perhaps, but the increased expense might not provide proportionlly increased performance.
No one is arguing that Vista 64 sucks; but I will certainly argue that Vista 32 and 2 GB makes a fine high-end gaming platform, just as viable as Vista 64 and 4 GB.
Score
-1
Chuck Norris
October 17, 2008 5:01:34 PM
I would probably have been better to use DDR2 RAM and include 4GB+ than to use 2GB of DDR3 RAM. When it comes to high-end games nowadays, the more you can cache is more important than how quickly you can cache them.
That being said, I'm totally uninterested in "boutique" systems because of their expense, but I do appreciate that the good warranties they offer are attractive. I would never buy one myself, but I can understand why someone else would want to. Also, if you're willing to spend this much on a new computer you can probably afford to upgrade to 4GB of DDR3 RAM in a year or two and pick up 64-bit OS then. It would probably be cheaper for the system company and for you. However, I use photoshop on a semi-regular basis and I would appreciate the more RAM now, myself.
I read these kinds of reviews/articles because I think it's interesting to see how the top-end systems perform, even if I won't ever buy one.
That being said, I'm totally uninterested in "boutique" systems because of their expense, but I do appreciate that the good warranties they offer are attractive. I would never buy one myself, but I can understand why someone else would want to. Also, if you're willing to spend this much on a new computer you can probably afford to upgrade to 4GB of DDR3 RAM in a year or two and pick up 64-bit OS then. It would probably be cheaper for the system company and for you. However, I use photoshop on a semi-regular basis and I would appreciate the more RAM now, myself.
I read these kinds of reviews/articles because I think it's interesting to see how the top-end systems perform, even if I won't ever buy one.
Score
0
Shadow703793
October 17, 2008 11:36:11 PM
CleeveOn a side note, MaxForce let me know that they will install custom kit like water cooling at the customer's request.
That's good to know.
note to people who are bi***ing about Water cooling vs air cooling. Yes you could have a smiler performance with a lower price air cooler, but when you come to 4+ Ghz on a quad you are better off with water cooling. Also usually Water cooling also reduces your noise levels.
@Editors: You should have included Temps(P95 load, idle, ambient) for the MaxForce.
Score
1
kelfen
October 18, 2008 7:04:35 AM
kewl munky
October 18, 2008 7:34:51 PM
This is all starting to annoy me. It's getting to the point where you no longer can pick out which card is better, but which programs it runs better. By the time I start looking at some new graphics cards I'll probably have to see how well the cards run the programs I have, instead of which is actually better.
Score
0
skunkmeister
October 19, 2008 12:45:48 AM
Look, a 32bit system is limited to 2^32 addressable memory. Subtract proc cache, video memory, and any other memory the bios addresses, and your 4GB of memory shows up as 4GB - the total hardware memory. Since this system has 3 video cards with 1GB memory each, it would be completly pointless to put more than 2GB in the thing. Do the math, and odds are pretty good that the system doesn't address the 2GB. Forget what the control panel says, Vista lists the installed memory, not the addressed memory. For that, look at the performace tab of the task manager.
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0
salsoolo
October 20, 2008 12:09:04 AM
Kewl MunkyThis is all starting to annoy me. It's getting to the point where you no longer can pick out which card is better, but which programs it runs better. By the time I start looking at some new graphics cards I'll probably have to see how well the cards run the programs I have, instead of which is actually better.
very true!
Score
0
phantom93
October 20, 2008 3:19:41 AM
Arbie
October 21, 2008 2:26:19 PM
CleeveIf you're worried about power draw, a triple-SLI GTX 280 PC is not for you. I don't have a meter in my lab, unfortunately, but I'll see what I can do about getting one.As for sound, I didn't take any measurements, but it was very quiet at idle although when playing demanding games the three graphics cards often became a lot noisier.
Your flip answer misses the point. A machine like this (at least in SLI) might be for me - which is why I asked about power dissipation. The major enabler of a GTX280 is that idle power is spec'd remarkably low. No other card offers so much peak capability at so low an idle figure. I'm NOT talking about electric costs, and I'm NOT talking about max dissipation. I'm talking about how much heat is thrown out 99.9% of the time. That's also why I asked about idle noise.
And - you might get some basic instruments for your "lab" if you're going to be reviewing systems for Toms.
Arbie
Score
-1
killerb255
October 21, 2008 4:17:55 PM
Anonymous
October 22, 2008 6:38:02 AM
grieve
October 22, 2008 10:08:12 PM
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