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problems with zalman & arctic silver 5

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October 11, 2006 7:16:55 PM

ok this is weird. got the following: asus P5WD2-E premium, D805, OCZ DDR2 2x512, 7900GT etc.. evrything running at default freq/voltages.
replaced stock HS with zalman CNPS9500LED. on full speed temps were:
idle 48-50, prime95 66-68! removed the HS, cleaned the zalman thermal grease (yes i did it properly), and replaced with arctic silver 5. temps now: idle 46-48, prime95 58-60. so some improvement, but nowhere near enough! i read excellent reviews about both arctic silver and the zalman HS and people are getting idles of 35!! plus if i overclock i'm gonna hit 70 for sure!! what can i do to cool this beast down?? plz help ive looked everywhere for ideas!!

More about : problems zalman arctic silver

October 11, 2006 7:38:05 PM

oh oops, well it is a 805...perhaps (perhaps) you've got a bad one, (eg a cpu with high voltage, resulting in a higher temp)?
OR
what is the fan speed? Use the fan mate 2 (included) and increase the speed of see if that lowers the temps. (oh just read that the temps you said were full sped ones )
OR
can you try to lower the voltage a bit (step by step) and see if it's stable (though i would not normally reccomend this...)

what are you gonna do? :? PM wusy he might know what else you could do/try. :?
October 11, 2006 8:05:06 PM

well i hope i've not got a bad one :(  dont think the voltage is the problem cuz the default is reported as 1.2625 which is actually lower than wat other people seem to have. i havent tried lowering it further , i might as well try although i doubt its gonna help. i'll let u know if wusy replies or if i get any luck. if all else fails i might reinstall the heatsink for the 3rd time ..sigh...thank u for replying
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October 11, 2006 8:12:57 PM

Was the chip's surface perfectly clean? Some people lap their chip's metal surface to a near perfect mirror before hand. I don't like the writing on my chip's surfaces much. My Zalman made a huge difference for me (I used alcohol to clean the chip well). When I installed it, I also moved all my cables out of the way and put a front/rear fan to make air flow.
October 11, 2006 8:17:41 PM

well i wouldn't say 100% shiny as the surface of the die is somewhat matte. but it was as clean as i could manage with lint-free cloth and 70% isopropyl alcohol. the surface of the heatsink was shiny as a mirror. all my cables are tucked way forward as near as possible to the drive bays and tied together with zip wires. my case comes with a rear fan positioned right behind the HS and an additional 2 fans, one in the front and one on the side panel! 8O
October 11, 2006 8:18:56 PM

yeah similarly was the bottom of the heatsink shiny(like a mirror)+smooth or was it scratched, this could mean that there is a bad contact between the cpu and hs/f.
Therefore you might need to try to smooth the bottom of the hs/f perhaps, athough i heard that zalman colers are supposed to be high quality, and therefore they should not be scratched. :?
October 11, 2006 8:20:44 PM

I have read that some of the zalman CNPS9500LED concave base. zalman CNPS9500LED Also make sure you applied the AS5 correctly... Too much AS5 will raise the temps too...
October 11, 2006 8:24:28 PM

no scratches that i cud see...possibly some invisible residue? i wonder if i sould try re-cleaning with something more aggressive than 70% alcohol like goof-off or something. also i dont think i applied too much, it was the size of a grain of rice in the middle of the die, then i wrapped my finger in a plasic bag and "painted" the surface with it. anyone found a better technique?
October 11, 2006 8:36:16 PM

it seems like you did the way you're supposed to (the rice bit is right), however do exactly what the instructions say. I think there is a special way how to do it because i read the instructions on the net and they were quite long for 'how to apply silver coloured paste' :p 

I'm sure you didn't put too much on it, and im sure you haven't put too little on it either. Too much is just as bad as too little! :p 
October 11, 2006 8:36:37 PM

Someone mentioned fans and the question has to be asked; how many fans do you and what placement are they. If the inside of the case is too hot, even a Zalman can't cure that.
October 11, 2006 8:56:45 PM

The fans on the front of the case and on the side panel are both blowing air into the case, right?
October 11, 2006 9:00:16 PM

Quote:
... i dont think i applied too much, it was the size of a grain of rice in the middle of the die, then i wrapped my finger in a plasic bag and "painted" the surface with it. ...

The recommended method from Arctic Silver is to apply the grain-of-rice amount and NOT spread it with your finger, but just to let the heat sink surface squish it and spread it out that way. When done this way, it will cover a disc-shaped area stretching to the edges of the CPU, but not the corners. Thus, by using a rice-grain amount and spreading it with your finger, you may have used too little.
October 11, 2006 9:05:41 PM

Quote:
Someone mentioned fans and the question has to be asked; how many fans do you and what placement are they. If the inside of the case is too hot, even a Zalman can't cure that.


yeah and also check if the rar fan is blowing air in and the direction the 9500 is blowing air. You ideally want the rear fan to exaust air, the front fan to bring air in and the 9500 to exaust air in combination with the rear fan. But you know this alredy, right?

otherwise the air inside the case becomes a mess and it all collides, thats a bad thing :lol: 
October 11, 2006 11:47:25 PM

thank u guys for ur replies! i believe the rear fan blows air out of the case and the front one in, not sure about the side one tho i think it blows it out as well. will test them and see. i will also give the HS and cpu another good clean and try applying the same amount of grease without spreading it around this time as advised. will post results tomorrow! wish me luck!
October 12, 2006 12:22:06 AM

check the recommended voltage settings for your processor, perhaps your settings are too high?
October 12, 2006 5:22:54 AM

I don't do the grain of rice then let it squish cause if the grain is too small you don't get good squish. I just blob a bit then use a clean flat edge (like bank card) to evenly distribute it. haven't had a prob yet.

Can you feel your front fan's breeze inside the case with your hand? I bought new 80mm/120mm fans for my case, the front 120mm fan was on 5v because the case greatly restricted it from streaming air well.

Today I took some wire cutters, a small saw blade and a banana knife and I cut the grill and platic front of my case out. The difference in air flow was over 200% while still on 5v. I'm leaving it on 5v for now till I need more cooling.

This pic shows the front of my case near the bottom where I cut out the plastic and cut the grills. The red outline is where I cut. I need to put an air filter in now.



This pic is with the front of the case opened and looking down into it.


I tested the heat difference having my side case fan versus no side case fan (taped over). The fan isn't directly over the CPU, its more over the RAM:

Room temperature is 29c

With side 80m 12v fan blowing air in:
Oct 11 2006 - 22:19
hdd0 27c (wd hd160gb ide, at top)
hdd1 33-35c (wd hd250gb sata2 shorted to sata1, at bottom of case)
temp3 18c
temp1 23c
CPU 33c

With side fan unplugged and taped over:
Oct 11 2006 - 23:03
hdd0 27c (wd hd160gb ide, at top)
hdd1 31-33c (wd hd250gb sata2 shorted to sata1, at bottom of case)
temp3 16c
temp1 22c

CPU 32-33c

Both ran for 30-40 minutes so its not biased.

If your new Zalman isn't cooling things off enough then maybe it doesn't have good air to cool with. Is the fan plugged into the motherboard or a molex connector (ensure its plugged into motherboard)
October 12, 2006 6:00:25 AM

ok as5 is not some magical thermal paste

there isnt much difference between thermalpaste

so chill out and enjoy yor computer :D 
October 12, 2006 6:14:25 AM

Wait wait.. there is a difference between thermal pastes. Silver has higher thermal conductivity than copper which has a much higher thermal conductivity than aluminium (sadly gold doesn't score high here). Silver thermal paste help transfer heat faster between the surfaces.

There is a bit more science here too. Sometimes you see aluminium used instead of copper despite copper's great heat transfer traits. The reason is; since aluminium transfers heat slower, it gives the heat time to disperse throughout the surface evenly. Copper on the other hand takes the heat so fast that its hot where the surfaces touch, it doesn't have the time to spread the heat evenly around.

Many cooking pots don't have copper bottoms for this reason. If you have a copper bottom, the copper will transfer the heat in the elements spiral pattern to the cooking surface in the pot which inturn cooks your food primarily in the spiral patter. To fix this a copper plate is sandwiched between the inside of the pot and another metal bottom. The metal bottom with a lower thermal conductivity lets the heat evenly distribute better before it gets to the copper which quickly transfers it to the inner cooking surface.

I want a silver CPU heatsink.
October 12, 2006 7:45:44 AM

I wouldn't count on that. Using the stock thermal pad on my computer, at load my temps were 53 to 55, when I used AS5, after the 200 hours, my load temps dropped to 47 to 49, as well as my fan speed went from 4200 to 3200, a nice drop in temperature and sound.

One thing you may want to try, is take your motherboard out when you put on your Zalman, so that you get a proper seal on it. My friend has the Zalman and an Opty 165 and his load temps are 32 degrees, idle is probably 29.
October 12, 2006 6:51:13 PM

ok guys to those of u who asked me about my fans..tested them by holding a thin strip of tissue in front to see the direction of airflow. front fan: inwards, side fan: inwards. rear fan situated just behind the HS: outwards. i think thats alright! i've ordered arcticlean 1 & 2 and will give it a final thorough clean then reassemble using the squish technique. will let u all know as soon as i do. as for voltages no i dont think theyre too high, i kept them at default which is 1.2625 and according to THG they went up all the way to 1.500!!
October 12, 2006 7:03:45 PM

I have an amd 4800 and had the exact same problem as you. I removed the fan and reinstalled it about twenty times and could not figure it out...then replaced it with another one and it got my cpu down to 44c idle and 50c full load. I would try exchanging if for another one. Also try removing the side of your case to see if you just have heat trapped inside.
October 12, 2006 8:52:20 PM

okies GL :D 
October 13, 2006 9:15:49 PM

i got my arcticlean 1 & 2 today and gave the HS and CPU a very thorough clean. i then applied AS5 and let the HS squish it on to the cpu. results now: idle 43/ stress 56. (this is vs. idle 49/ stress 58 that i was getting before). :? not bad i suppose, but not that impressed to be honest. i give up though, dont think theres anything else i can do. i still want to overclock but dont want to burn the cpu in the process! should i wait for a couple of weeks for the AS5 to "set-in"? or does it make little difference? thank u for all those who helped out.
October 13, 2006 9:53:07 PM

What is your room temperature at? Are you in a hot country?

It sounds like your room is hot. Do you have air conditioning available for the room?

I used to face my case to an open window to drop the CPU temp to 23c when it overheated.

(remember, blowing a fan in your room doesn't cool the air off unless its bringing in cold air from somewhere)
October 13, 2006 10:07:57 PM

i live in england and its bloody freezing these days! lol. i do have the central heating on i think my room temp is between 25-30. the system temp is 32-35 though...
October 13, 2006 10:22:39 PM

Cool, any place north of 45 is great.

Is your CPU overclocked by chance?

Is the fan on the heatsink working full speed?

This is my fan setup. I just added an extra 2 fans in over the last week:

I have 2 fans in the front of my case and 2 fans in the back.

A 120mm is behind the CPU/heatsink and a 80mm in the front of the case (2 CD bays open with air filter to keep out dust). I used a cereal box to make a funnel from the open bays to a more narrow fan size.

I have a 80mm fan behind the vid card (PCI card slot covers taken out) and a 120mm fan on the lower front of case (with the front of case cut out).

The airflow inside is great. There is a constant breeze taking in air from the front and exiting it out the back. I taped over the side fan cause it wasn't doing anything for airflow or cooling.

Can you take a few pictures of the inside of your case and email them?



My CPU gets upwards or 47 under heavy load
October 13, 2006 10:35:09 PM

Quote:
i live in england and its bloody freezing these days! lol. i do have the central heating on i think my room temp is between 25-30. the system temp is 32-35 though...


30C is pretty warm for the room temp. in England. I'd turn the heat down or open a window. :lol: 
October 13, 2006 10:35:28 PM

no my cpu is not overclocked (yet)
the fan is on full speed.
ur fan setup sounds fantastic and i think im going to do smthng similar to urs.. at the moment i have a 120 mm rear fan behind the HS, an 80 mm on the side panel, and a 120 mm lower front. this is partially blocked by the hard drive but i havent found a way around this as its slightly bigger than the floppy bays so had to use the bottom bays. will post some pics tomorrow.
October 13, 2006 10:37:06 PM

lol yeh i'll try that and wear a few extra layers when i wanna play a game or smthng lol
October 13, 2006 10:43:35 PM

This might sound corny, but check which way the Zalman fan is blowing air. Make sure you installed it blowing the right direction. Just a thought.
If you mounted it reversed it'll be blowing hot air back into the case. My CPU core is runs in the 20's normally with the Zalman and cooling solution that I have (air).
October 13, 2006 10:45:17 PM

Two of my drives are IDE and one is SATA. I use two IDE cables so I used a razor and cut the extra connector/cable off each one to shorten them then folded the ribbons twice and taped around them so they are closer to SATA style.

I moved my two hdds higher up; the 120mm intake blows under them cooling the underside of the hotter drive.

I used alot of tape, twist ties, and tape covered steel wire to hold all my cables out of the way of air flow. In the past I'd cut up plastic bottles to guide air around but now I just keep my cables tidy.
October 13, 2006 10:51:36 PM

wow im impressed. do u mind posting some pics so i can use them as a rough guide for ideas?
October 13, 2006 10:52:59 PM

Ok, I'll post some tonight :D  I use my Razr as a cam so they won't be too high quality :D 
October 14, 2006 7:58:24 AM

The pics are kinda crappy cause my phone is pretty basic.

These are pics of the front. I cut that piece of filter from the inside of the home heating system.





Side view




Before I put the Zalman on my card (it comes with 8 ram heatsinks too) my system would reboot from vid card overheating

You can see there aren't any cables obstructing the airflow on the bottom.




This is a pic of the top front fan. I forgot to get a pic of my ribbon cables folded but you can see them taped up.


The airflow in the case isn't perfect. I'd like air to be flowing where the harddrives current are. I'm going to get rails for them and put them in the 5-1/4 bays and have their heat vent out thru the top.

If I can get a case nibbler I'm going to make a blow hole. I'll have to come up with something to ensure I can't dump a Pepsi in the hole and fry everything :D 
October 14, 2006 8:41:06 AM

Just a quick question, and I appologize if I missd the answer in my quick read.

Have you allowed the AS5 to "set" for the recommended ammount of time?
October 14, 2006 9:33:34 AM

a lot of fans :) 

I think you've go a very nice airflow in your case, especially using the space under your graphics card for a 80mm fan and making an air vent out of a cereal box :wink:

what about any cooling from the left hand side of the case? Straping a 80mm or 120mm fan onto the side to cool you graphics card even more (more :lol:  ) cut a hole in the side, put a filter in and the attach a fan and viola! :) 
October 14, 2006 12:09:22 PM

With regard to your cardboard cereal box air duct, have you ever heard of spontaneous combustion? Given the temperatures you’ve posted, it could result in a new definition of the expression, “toast”. Keep a watchful eye for smoke and flames. :lol: 
October 14, 2006 4:30:39 PM

Adding a side 80mm fan would be good but not needed for my setup.



>With regard to your cardboard cereal box air duct, have you ever heard of spontaneous combustion?

Thanks for the concern. Since its pumping room temp into the cereal box it'll be ok... unless of course you know something I don't...



I can't wait till I get a new laptop. I'm sure it'll overheat when I play games and I'll get to cerealbox it.
October 14, 2006 6:59:41 PM

haha i like the pic, cereal boxes, now everyone know that using cereal boxes in computers can cause injury... :lol: 
October 16, 2006 12:59:59 PM

i couldnt wait any longer and ive overclocked my pc..there just doesnt seem to be anymore i can do in terms of air flow as all my cables are tied up out of the way and ive got 2 fans blowing air in and one out. so anyway here are the results, plz let me know wat u think and wether im likely to run into problems:

before OC: 2.66 GHz, T: 43 idle, 56 after the CPU test in 3DMark06
3dmark score: 5351

after OC: 3.8 GHz, T: 53 idle, 73 after the CPU test in 3DMark06
system passed 10 hours of prime95 with temp up to 65.
3dmark score: 6485

also played doom 3 for 3 hours last night without experiencing any problems, but im still worried! should i downgrade? should i install more fans for extra cooling or try reinstalling the HSF yet again??
October 16, 2006 2:07:39 PM

I also have the Pentium D 805 overclocked with the Zalman 9500. I idle at 49C and max my temp out at 65C when I am doing video editing. So I think that you are in the ballpark.

My case has a 120mm fan that sits right behind the Zalman. The Zalman exits right into the 120mm which creates a really nice flow. So that might be the difference with my idle temp.
October 16, 2006 4:41:30 PM

can u post a couple of pics plz? i'd really love to get my temps down a bit even by a few degrees and all ideas are welcome!
October 16, 2006 5:30:29 PM

Quote:
i couldnt wait any longer and ive overclocked my pc..there just doesnt seem to be anymore i can do in terms of air flow as all my cables are tied up out of the way and ive got 2 fans blowing air in and one out. so anyway here are the results, plz let me know wat u think and wether im likely to run into problems:

before OC: 2.66 GHz, T: 43 idle, 56 after the CPU test in 3DMark06
3dmark score: 5351

after OC: 3.8 GHz, T: 53 idle, 73 after the CPU test in 3DMark06
system passed 10 hours of prime95 with temp up to 65.
3dmark score: 6485

also played doom 3 for 3 hours last night without experiencing any problems, but im still worried! should i downgrade? should i install more fans for extra cooling or try reinstalling the HSF yet again??


That's about the same as what I got with my 805. I think that you're fine with those temperatures. The 805's run hot, that's just the way it is.

I didn't read every comment. Somebody must have mentioned that the LED fan on the Zalman faces the FRONT of the computer, right? The air travels away from the fan, through the copper fins and exits through the rear of the computer. A rear case fan that sucks air out of the case makes this even more efficient.
October 17, 2006 12:45:27 AM

I have a Socket AM2 system and I just got the AM2 version of the CNPS9500, and I can say that it works very well. I do have a bit of a story though concerning temps with it.

Before when I had the stock heatsink, my proc would get upto 51 to 54 degrees C at stock, and I run folding 24/7, so it was ALWAYS at 49 to 52. After I installed my Zalman using the razor method, my temps with folding were... around 49 to 52 degrees Cescius, which seemed really odd to me. A while later I tried reseating the heatsink, after a very knoledgable friend told me that when you have an IHS (the ceramic block) on your cpu, always do it the blob and smash method as opposed to the razor method, as well as I wanted to overclock. I took the heatsink off and whadya know, only the outer parts were touching, about 60 percent of the heatsink was still mirror shiny, all of it in the centre of the cpu. I was surprised it didn't overheat my proc.

So I reseated using the blob and smash method, and my temps with dual folding were 41! Amazing! I ended up overclocking to 2554 with stock voltage through Clockgen, and the temps were 49 with dual prime. Unfortunately for some reason my computer will not post with a fsb of over 240, which really sucks. One day I'll put some AC5 on the northbridge and/or get better cooling because it gets quite hot. Might try a voltmod as well on the nb (m2n-e doesn't have many overclocking options, enough to get you going but not quite as many as I'd've hoped for), hopefully that'll get better overclock.

Moral of the story, use the blob and smash method.
October 17, 2006 8:42:08 PM

Quote:


That's about the same as what I got with my 805. I think that you're fine with those temperatures. The 805's run hot, that's just the way it is.

I didn't read every comment. Somebody must have mentioned that the LED fan on the Zalman faces the FRONT of the computer, right? The air travels away from the fan, through the copper fins and exits through the rear of the computer. A rear case fan that sucks air out of the case makes this even more efficient.


my zalman faces the right way round (led and fan forward), and yes ive got a fan behind it blowing air out.
October 17, 2006 8:43:19 PM

Quote:

Moral of the story, use the blob and smash method.


ive tried both methods and i second ur opinion.
October 17, 2006 9:13:16 PM

I've got a VERY similar setup to you, my D805 runs full load at 62, idles in the 40's at stock speeds with the Zalman CNPS-9500... (stock voltage 1.3625v)

When overclocked, provided there's plenty of air coming in the front of the case (2x 120mm's) it hits a whopping 67 at 3.7Ghz :p 
October 17, 2006 9:36:18 PM

Quote:
can u post a couple of pics plz? i'd really love to get my temps down a bit even by a few degrees and all ideas are welcome!


So here's another idea. Try putting a fan at the top of the case. Hot air rises, accumulates, and helps things hotter. Having a fan on top to exhaust all that hot air can improve circulation and case temps a bunch. I know it helped on my computer. Can't guarentee it will help for yours, but it sure won't hurt.
!