The New Graphics

[pschmid]

A tale of Direct X 10, and rumors of the hardware to drive it. While the demand for Direct X 9 hardware is not slipping, and more graphics cards are constantly being launched, there is much interest in this new standard and the hardware that will support it.

 

[margav]

Article URL: .com[/b]/2006/10/18/the_new_graphics/index.html]http://www.tomshardware.com.com/2006/10/18/the_new_graphics/index.html

com.com ftw !

 

[danny9894]

A good article, hopefully both these cards stand up to the hype

 

[exarrkun]

Article URL: .com[/b]/2006/10/18/the_new_graphics/index.html]http://www.tomshardware.com.com/2006/10/18/the_new_graphics/index.html

com.com ftw !

didn't we have this before?

 

[qwertycopter]

That is, until the game developers incorporate more objects into a scene, of course, as we have seen in previews of games such as the Age of Conan, where we will finally be able to cut the limbs of an opponent - like the black knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

Not true. Check out the game Rune. You could chop off heads and arms and beat your enemies with them. :twisted:

 

[Doughbuy]

I'm waiting for the game where I can rip a guys head off and shove it into his arse.

Then I can die peacefully in gaming oblivion.

 

[mitch074]

These cards should work very well in OpenGL 2 on Linux.

DX10? What's that? Oh, yes - a fancy name for a GLSL interpretor on a system that finally dissociated objects, graphics hardware and main loop.

Seen under *nix with OpenGL, DRI, X11R6.8. Sooo innovative.

Mind you, these cards should really kick @$$.

 

[exarrkun]

That is, until the game developers incorporate more objects into a scene, of course, as we have seen in previews of games such as the Age of Conan, where we will finally be able to cut the limbs of an opponent - like the black knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

Not true. Check out the game Rune. You could chop off heads and arms and beat your enemies with them. :twisted:

you could even do that in jedi outcast (by filling in a cheat )
it was so fun!!! :twisted:

 

[mkaibear]

>Run very well in OpenGL 2 for Linux

They probably will. Of course, you'll be running the nVidia drivers... which have security holes

>GLSL interpreter

Please, OpenGL != Direct3D. They are totally different 3D standards.

 

[mitch074]

...and both include a shader language that actually map almost exactly one to the other - dixit the wine-devel mailing list.

So as to Direct3D and OpenGL being completely different 3D languages, maybe at one time - but less and less.

Makes you wonder why Microsoft just didn't implement the OpenGL language from the get go and dubbed it MSGL (since the specs are open, only the name is copyrighted), like 'others' did with Mesa.

As to the driver, well, true - for now. There's been some progress made towards making most (if not all) recent Nvidia hardware accelerated in 3D, in the 'nouveau' project. When it works I'll probably switch - less hassle.

 

[mkaibear]

So, basically, you agree with what I said?

OpenGL and D3D are becoming different languages to address the same features. D3D is not an interpreted OpenGL.


>makes you wonder why Microsoft didn't just implement the OpenGL language from the get go

Because they're Microsoft!

>driver

Yeah, the benefit of the OSS community is that they can fix said problems. Sadly the nVidia drivers aren't OSS and Nouveau isn't *quite* there yet, but we shall see!


(incidentally, I'm not a Microsoft apologist, though I use XP for desktop, I am a Solaris sysadmin, I develop on a Kubuntu box, I have a Smoothwall firewall and my laptop runs... well, whatever is flavour of the month. I've had Knoppix / Kubuntu 5/6 / FC 3,4 and RH9.2 on it in the last 2 years)

Next project: MythTV... *shudder*

 

[Chef_Boyardee]

That is, until the game developers incorporate more objects into a scene, of course, as we have seen in previews of games such as the Age of Conan, where we will finally be able to cut the limbs of an opponent - like the black knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

Not true. Check out the game Rune. You could chop off heads and arms and beat your enemies with them. :twisted:

also, the game Blade of Darkness had this feature. It came out before rune. I love that game.

*correction* blade of darkness came after rune. my fault.

 

[theaxemaster]

A good article, hopefully both these cards stand up to the hype

That was a mediocre article, all it said was "now we have geometry shaders." Two pages and that's all the info there is. I guess it isn't a terrible sum up of where things are, but anyone who even knows what a G80 is knows that already.

So, basically, you agree with what I said?

OpenGL and D3D are becoming different languages to address the same features. D3D is not an interpreted OpenGL.


>makes you wonder why Microsoft didn't just implement the OpenGL language from the get go

Because they're Microsoft!

A little thing we like to call vendor lock-in. Apparently microsoft actually left the OpenGL review board in 2003. I would guess that that is probably right about the time they started developing DX10.

I would like to see them all get back together and agree on it and everyone use it, but it won't happen, because MS is making too much money to give up the DX now.

 

[mkaibear]

>vendor lock-in

I kinda implied this with "Because they're Microsoft", but ok!

 

[mitch074]

and I'm completing a full switch to Linux - because I like to spend my cash and time on stuff that deserve it.

 

[LiquidFlame]

So, then is it true that the new G80's might not use the DX10 engines?

 

[mitch074]

Oh, it probably will - it's just that while Nvidia keeps going in the fixed role shader units (pixel OR shader), Ati will keep churning out mixed role shader units (pixel OR vertex depending on case). Now, since DX10 was developed in close collaboration with Ati, it would stand to reason to think that Ati would make 'real' DX10 cards, while Nvidia won't.
Considering that in fact, vertex shaders can be emulated by the CPU at little cost, graphics cards may in fact include only pixel shaders, and not waste cycles on emptying a shader unit's pipeline, change its role, then refill its pipeline to do it all over again.
Frankly, the DX10 'revolution' is done more at the driver level than at the hardware level - DX10 cards won't be fundamentally different from DX9 cards, merely add a handful of functions to justify the upgrade.

Remember when Nvidia released the 'ti' series in the Geforce 2 range - and they turned out to be the exact same cards with a better driver? Well, it's pretty much the same thing here.

You may not expect your DX9 cards to run DX10 games with all the eye candy, but I'll be damned if there's no gifted demo maker able to make a demo run so similar on both DX9 and DX10 hardware no one would notice the difference.

 

[melarcky]

Well, for some reason i am expecting the Gefore FX Fiasco to repeat it self for some reason.

 

[twile]

I too was a bit underwhelmed by the article :/ It was pretty brief, I would've liked if it at least mentioned things like early and mainstream games which will take advantage of DX10 (Crysis for example). And they could've also told when DX10 hardware would come out from ATI and nVidia... or when DX10 will be out, period! They also didn't mention compatibility between XP and DX10 or lack thereof. I tend to prefer my THG articles to be >5 pages with lots of nummy details.

Ah well, beggars can't be choosers as they say. Though if any THG people are reading this, I at least would appreciate it if this article had a bit more meat to it.

 

[sojrner]

well, like they said at the start of the article... they put as much meat as they could in there. Frankly, as stranger mentioned there is not much known beyond what we have all read on these forums already. Kinda like a calm before a storm. Once the hardware hits there will be tornados of reviews claiming the +27 1337 performance from the g600ultraXTX that blows the doors off of "last gen" hardware.

Not saying that those wont be valid claims, as those upcomming cards will be smokin. But just like previous generations of advancements it will be a while before a rockin dx10 game comes out that truely taxes it. Remember dx8 and the whole shader "revolution"? It took forever for games beyond tech-demo quality to surface. Watch and you will see that dx9 will still be predominant through 2007. So let it be written, so let it be done.

 

[AlexIrvine]

How much better will DX 10 cards perform on DX 9 games vs. DX9 cards?

 

[sojrner]

[consults magic 8-ball]

"Answer unclear Ask later"

[scratches head bewildered]

 

[CompTIA_Rep]

You guys are assuming windows will cost more, which is why your just going to go to Linux and "spend money on those who deserve".

Like most of you guys arnt pirates anyway. lol
Windows is ... ahem... free.

lol. Acutaly I own more then 8 copies of windows XP home (oem) and 2 copies of pro (1 oem). They just come with the computers.... i dont care. I think its BS they cant be transfered though, but its just as easy to download a copy of XP off the internet...

As far as rendering engines.... I cant remember the last game I played that had the D3D logo on it. I think it might have startwars rouge squadron... a fun game.

 

[Anoobis]

That is, until the game developers incorporate more objects into a scene, of course, as we have seen in previews of games such as the Age of Conan, where we will finally be able to cut the limbs of an opponent - like the black knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

Not true. Check out the game Rune. You could chop off heads and arms and beat your enemies with them. :twisted:
Ahh the memories. I should dig it out and play it again. I loved the hammer. Smashing my foes into meatwaffles. Or the freakshow that Odin grants you after what seems like endless skeleton soldiers in that pit.

I can feel the bloodrage surging to my balls as we speak!

I'm waiting for the game where I can rip a guys head off and shove it into his arse.

Then I can die peacefully in gaming oblivion.

So far the closest I've come to that was watching the cutscene where Duke rips the head from the final boss and proceeds to sh!t down his neck in Duke Nukem3D.

 

[CompTIA_Rep]

I was refering to the fact that even owning the OS, you some times need to resort to other methods. I did not mean offence.