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Big LCD widescreen monitors ?

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October 19, 2006 2:13:56 PM

Ive been looking on the Acer AL2423W 24 for quite some time but im worried about ghosting and all that cuz its alot of money, so i was wondering if anyone here had that monitor and could tell me something about it or maybe u know another monitor?.
October 19, 2006 2:32:33 PM

i don't have the monitor, but i've read a lot of reviews on it. from what i've heard, there are absolutely no problems playing games with it. no ghosting. however, most recommend the dell 2407 over it. its less then 50 bucks more usually.
October 19, 2006 2:43:08 PM

24" monitors cost quite a bit more than 22" monitors, almost double the price in some cases. I would recommend the VX2235WM (Viewsonic) since it's on sale for 300 bucks at Costco (last time I checked) and had some decent specs. It's a 22" widescreen, so it would look marginally smaller.

Just an idea.
Related resources
October 19, 2006 3:53:29 PM

they have significantly lower resolution that is non standard and some games don't support it. thats why they are half the price. but i agree, 24 inchers are way over priced. this time next year they'll probably be around 500. thats when i plan on getting one.
October 19, 2006 4:27:32 PM

Quote:
they have significantly lower resolution that is non standard and some games don't support it. thats why they are half the price.


Well, see, widescreen monitors of any size use a non-standard resolution, not just the 22". It's actually the 19" widescreen that have a highly non-standard resolution though, as the others are used on widescreen notebooks as well.

19": 1440 x 900 - Moderate support in widescreen-capable games
20.1" - 22": 1680 x 1050 - Good support in widescreen-capable games
24": 1920 x 1200 - Good support in widescreen-capable games

The biggest problem is the lack of games which support widescreen in the first place... most games require "hacks" to use widescreen and those hacks generally chop the top off of the screen.

Unfortunately, this is a well known problem (with little that seems to be done about it) by several of the game developers, even after requests to have widescreen support added.
October 19, 2006 5:33:03 PM

8) Definatly go with the Chimei 22 inch widescreen at Newegg.com.

I just got mine yesterday and am wowed at its sharpness, color depth
and brightness, this monitor rocks. It killz my old 21 inch dell(sony)
trinitron CRT in size and all factors mentioned above. And the price is awlsome. 8)

NeoDon
October 19, 2006 5:34:42 PM

8) Definatly go with the Chimei 22 inch widescreen at Newegg.com.

I just got mine yesterday and am wowed at its sharpness, color depth
and brightness, this monitor rocks. It killz my old 21 inch dell(sony)
trinitron CRT in size and all factors mentioned above. And the price is awlsome. 8)
OH and just incase you think CHIMEI is aq no name brand that is not good they make monitors for Veiwsonic,Dell,Samsung and others....
NeoDon
October 19, 2006 6:22:56 PM

I like the Dell 2407FPW, and a bargain at $679, imo.
October 19, 2006 6:27:52 PM

which, btw, includes a three-year, next-business-day, on-site warranty (with two week ‘satisfaction guaranteed’ policy as well) making it a steal for its price...
October 20, 2006 10:45:41 AM

i heard the Dell 2407 should be really slow at gaming. now i see ppl say buy 22 lcd but 24 would really be nice, and i would also like using it as TV but maybe i should just wait a year or so cus where i live the Acer AL2423W cost about $300 more than US and there isnt that many 24'' LCD's 2 choose from yet, but the screens get bigger and cheaper for every year, i just wanted to know if someone had it and could tell me about it but thanks anyway :b






:p  btw sorry for my bad english
October 20, 2006 2:30:12 PM

I have the 2405FPW and very rarely notice any ghosting, and gaming is an excellent experience on it... so is TV/DVD playback... By far, it is the best LCD/CRT I have ever owned...

ExtremeTech Hardware Ranking
http://www.hardwareranking.com/link.php?lid=2264

Product Dell UltraSharp 2407WFP

Company:
Dell Computer

Pros:
Uniform color; very bright; component video input; great response time for gaming and video; great price.

Cons:
No direct backlight control; height adjustment only goes full-up or full-down.

Summary:
Dell has a real winner here. The feature set is great, and it excelled in both objective and subjective performance testing. Perhaps most importantly, the price is fantastic. All we want now is a direct backlight control.
Price: $703 (direct)


Another Review
http://www.hardwareranking.com/link.php?lid=2263
October 20, 2006 3:22:39 PM

well it sounds good, im just scared for the ghosting thingy im really picky about that because its alot of money

it says 16ms in the reviews and my current LCD is 8ms so its twice the ms thats a little scary, but the best thing is probably 2 find a shop who has it, thanks for the help.
October 21, 2006 4:59:42 PM

Heh i guess people actualy do buy acer monitors. Ok well i have a 24" lcd samsung 244t 1920x1200 native "hacking" the games to do the resalution i want doesnt cut off the tops and bottoms because thier max res is 1600x1200 since mines 1920x1200 i lose nothing top to bottom but i gain 320 side to side ;)  just be smart and match the vertical if you need to "hack" a game. I hear people get stretching also but in BF2 i dont most people dont really know how to do it and in some games you jsut cant avoid it. I got the 24" i dont regret it even with the higher price i would do it again if i had the chance. mine has 6ms responce GtoG NOOOOOOOO ghosting NOOOOOOOOO bluring whatsoever. and its way sharper then any CRT i have ever had and the last two crt's i had were 22" professional monitors.
October 21, 2006 9:51:42 PM

Agree, I have Dell's older 2405FPW and it rates according to THG at 20ms... but I rarely notice ghosting, and it never impedes the gaming since it is intermittent and only in a few scenarios...
in other words it is barely noticeable on my 2407, and the newer 2407 is significantly faster, so I suspect this would be a non-issue...
Just make sure you have a current and powerfull graphic card... mine is a HiS X1800XT running at 690MHz/1584MHz
October 22, 2006 5:40:23 AM

And for god sake use the dvi cable before you come on here complaining about how the monitor sux.
October 23, 2006 8:43:04 PM

Ugh, 24" are so expensive though, I could get 2 22" for that price...

But if I had a choice, that 24" dell would be at the top of my list... well, next to a 30", but thats understandable.
October 23, 2006 8:52:41 PM

anything under 24" and i would stick with crt my last crt was about $850 my current LCD cost me $850 when i got it.
October 23, 2006 9:27:32 PM

Yeah, the G2G response time on those Dells is awesome. But, I have been able to detect a slight input lag on my brother's 2405 (and I read that the 2407 is the same). It doesn't bother most people, but if you are really sensitive to that sort of thing, you should try moving a mouse around on a 2405 before purchasing.

Other than that, the 240X monitors are great. I own a Sony Premiere Pro 23" monitor (bought based on THG reviews), and my brother owns a Dell 2405. We are both incredibly happy with our monitors, because we use them for different things. So, it's just a question of what you value most in a monitor.
October 23, 2006 10:20:37 PM

Using the DVI connection? i dont experiance input lag.
October 23, 2006 11:55:45 PM

No lag noticeable on mine either... [/shrugs]
October 24, 2006 5:14:33 AM

Well, it has nothing to do with the cable. It has to do with color-correction technologies built in to your LCD (or overdrive... I'm not really sure actually). The time it takes it to print the signal it's receiving to the screen can be noticeable.

But, like I said, most people can't feel it. Samsung 214T has same problem and I can't even use that monitor (bought one and took it back), but for most people it's a great monitor (the actual look of the panel is amazing). It just "feels" like you have mouse smoothing enabled on your mouse when you move it around your screen or something.

That being said, the lag on the Dell is slight compared to Samsung. But, it still exists. Check these out to see what I'm talking about:

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1026393
http://forums.us.dell.com/supportforums/board/message?b...
http://www.behardware.com/articles/632-1/lcds-images-de...
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=937127
October 24, 2006 9:26:25 AM

Actualy the cable makes a big difference on monitors with large resolutions. these problems here from one of your links

more motion blur in video and games (motion blur is the bluring or same color ghost trails that appear on the lcd during fast movement)

less white ghosting in games (white ghosting is the light colored ghost that trails objects in a video game)

Much more noticable input lag

I dont get any of those. I play fast paced games like FPS everyday. i suppose if i had camera shutter eyes i would be equaly un happy with a crt as well since i would see the constant flicker they put off alot more then normal. I'm a accuracy freak when it comes to fps i like super fast mouse speeds and accurate movment. the only thing i had to get use to with my monitor was the side to side motion being odd because it was wider then my crt.

If i use a high res panal with a VGA connection to feed it the information it needs your asking for these problems to be overly enhanced. Obviuosly LCD's are still not so fast it would never happen. Hell my monitor runs at 60hrz even though its rated to run at 75hrz. If you have fast enough movement say like a high speed racing game im sure your bound to see this bluring but i havent played a game yet that has caused it. Bluring and ghosting is why i never got a LCD in the past only reason i got one now is becuase they finaly made a panal i can play fps in with out it. Cant speak for dell though wouldnt buy anything dell,gateway,compaq makes.
October 24, 2006 10:23:43 AM

I am looking at buying a 24 inch myself, and I actually was looking at the DELL, but recently I came up to this new BENQ monitor (LINK TO MONITOR ) It has some sorta thing to stop ghosting, (something like a black screen showing at 120HZ, which sorta takes away the ghosting, and apparebtly you would not see the black screen)


SO now I must consider how and what, and see reviews on it as I have not found any so far except that I think BENQ monitors are WCG sponsors :?
October 24, 2006 10:36:28 AM

Don't know much about this Acer other than it was one of the monitors I was reviewing/comparing to help me decide what to buy. From what I can remember, the Acer had good performance stats...no mention of your concern in the reviews I read and the one thing that attracted me to the Acer was the price. However, I opted for "a know quantity" and scraped together a few more dollars for something bigger and better! I've been a Samsung Montior lover for years and have owned 3 and still use a 19" CRT as well as my new acquistion...a Samsung 32" Combo LCD TV/PC Monitor. Check'em out...put together a few more bucks and get the BEST!

Samsung Lover!
October 24, 2006 12:54:32 PM

Avoid Acer , BenQ monitor at all cost !


samsung, Viewsonic make high quality monitors that are suitable for games. HP & Sony are too expensive and their quality is inferior to Samsung or Viewsonic.

I am not certain about Dell monitor. You have to check reviews.
October 24, 2006 1:42:52 PM

I have a AL1721 for couple of years and its goof for fps, while the WCG had Benq monitors, so I do not see how would they not fit for gaming, please explain yourself other than boistering how something is not good.
October 24, 2006 1:56:00 PM

Quote:
I am looking at buying a 24 inch myself, and I actually was looking at the DELL, but recently I came up to this new BENQ monitor (LINK TO MONITOR ) It has some sorta thing to stop ghosting, (something like a black screen showing at 120HZ, which sorta takes away the ghosting, and apparebtly you would not see the black screen)


SO now I must consider how and what, and see reviews on it as I have not found any so far except that I think BENQ monitors are WCG sponsors :?


The new BenQ monitor looks interesting. What is WCG?
Someone mentioned, don't buy BenQ. Why not?
October 24, 2006 1:59:22 PM

WCG are World Cyber Games, and I countered the guy who said to stay away from Benq because its monitors are not suited for games, while WCG uses for its championships? And so yeah, im also wondering why he said it.
October 24, 2006 4:14:11 PM

Well, I know you can play your FPS every day, but that doesn't mean you don't have input lag. The bottom line is: the Dell 2405 and Samsung 244T can be up to 50/65 ms (respectively) behind a CRT. If you think about network latency on games, this can be a big deal. Everybody knows that if you have a 10 ms ping on a server, you are going to get more kills than if you have a 75 ms ping. So, if your monitor is introducing extra latency into your rig, your 10 ms ping + 65ms input lag becomes 75 ms, which is bad.

My point was just that you can use whatever cable you want, and you still have input lag. If you're not a pro gamer, it might not be the biggest deal in the world to you. Like I said: most people can't detect it. But, most people don't even know what it is. When I first started listening to MP3s I thought they were awesome. Later, when I was able to pick out the sound of the compression, MP3s started driving me nuts. Catch my drift?

BTW, where did you find that DVI reduces input lag?
October 24, 2006 5:36:41 PM

i got it from one of your links since i dont remember every page that i read something from ill use that. mp3 compression isnt really a good comparasin though. I dont really care about "professional" gamers i jsut play in leagues in CAL i dont see that as proffesional though. I also dont see any difference playing on a crt apposed to this specific LCD in lag or my killing "skills" as the CS'ers have stated. the VGA connection cannot supply high res monitors with the requiered information fast enough as its limited in bandwidth not to mention it takes longer due to the conversion that has to take place. Accourding to one of your links it has to do with many aspects of a system not just the monitor. I spent all night trying to see the responces and sound delay or sound coming before a shot. Either peoples systems arent able to handle it or i must be missing something or they are exadurating something so slight you really have to try and see it.
October 24, 2006 6:26:11 PM

Quote:
Avoid Acer , BenQ monitor at all cost !


And what exactly are you basing this on? Is it the usual "i heard some guy on some forum that said it was crap".?
The BenQ FP241W is actually one of the best sub-$1000 24" monitors in the market today.
And as with everything you get what you pay for.

The reason why all 24" monitors cost twice as much as the 22" ones is because the 24" monitors use different (better) panel types. All 24" monitors use 8-bit panels(...usually PVA) while the 22" monitors use cheap 6-bit TN panels.
If you're only going to use your monitor for gaming, web-browsing and the occasional movie..., then the 22" are fine.
But if you plan on doing any type of professional graphics work, then stay away because the 22" are very limited when it comes to color reproduction.
October 24, 2006 6:58:19 PM

I have the Acer 24” and I run all my games in widescreen with no lose, in fact you actually see more. This is a good monitor no lag problems online or off, and no ghosting. If you want to know how to put your games in widescreen go to this site http://www.widescreengamingforum.com . :p 
October 24, 2006 7:27:49 PM

Current ms on 24 inchers is 6ms gtg, and 12 for full cycle. SO where did you get this 60 ms from?
October 24, 2006 7:40:59 PM

he's talking about input lag not pixel response time.
Input lag is the interval between the time the signal is sent to the monitor and the time it actually appears on the screen.
Large screens like the 24" have introduced a bit of input lag (usually between 20-60ms) because of additional signal processing they do before they actually show the image on the screen. This is not an issue with monitors less then 20".
Some people find it very bothersome, some people don't notice it at all. It all depends on the person.
October 24, 2006 7:43:05 PM

I have had my Dell 2407WFP 24" LCD for about two months now and I have noticed no ghosting. I play anywhere from FPS, to racing games, to strategy to online MMOs. I use it as my TV to watch DVDs of all genres.

By all means use the DVI cable, it's faster because it won't have to convert and unconvert the signal to display the image as a RGB cable does.

I don't know if people have read various reviews or not, but the different specs that manufacturers put on their screens differs from manufacturer to manufacturer of what their definition is. The ms response time or contrast rating of LCDs isn't the only thing to compare the screens with, nor is it always an apples to apples comparison if you use those specs.

With my screen I can view the screen from almost a 90 degree angle from the side and still see things clearly and read what's on it. I don't see any backlight bleeding as I've seen on some screens. Backlight bleeding is the backlight showing around the edges when it shouldn't be, when that happens your blacks are not so black. Oh, and I have zero dead pixels from what I can tell when using a white or black background, I see nothing dead or stuck on.
October 24, 2006 8:04:12 PM

Well, I'm not going to argue with you about this crap. It's a documented thing that exists, it bugs some people and some people don't care. I'll leave it at that.

picard, you should be ashamed of yourself with that gross generalization based on absolutely no facts. (oh, and you're wrong).

trapilales, I can't believe it! Somebody else who knows stuff about stuff! It's amazing! :D 
October 24, 2006 8:48:05 PM

I currently have the Acer AL2416Wd and I've never experienced any ghosting with it while playing games. I'm very happy with it and the only complaint I have is that while watching tv with my Powercolor T55E-P03 I notice some ghosting in fast moving scenes however when I watch the recording that was made of the scene there's no visual artifact... Despite that I'm happy with it...
October 24, 2006 9:10:02 PM

I can't comment on the Acer but I will tell you the Samsung 244t I purchased is superb. Multiple inputs including one component and S-Video(only one DVI unfortunately), USB hub (the root cable plugs into the left side where the outputs are for some dumb reason), 0 ghosting in games that I've noticed, low response rate for how large it is, PiP and PbP. The only thing this is missing, is a built-in TV tuner, but the similar model that does have one is plagued by ghosting apparently. I purchased a nice arm mount for it but have yet to install it.
October 24, 2006 10:10:54 PM

i wasnt talking about pixle responce time either.
October 24, 2006 10:52:38 PM

Quote:
Current ms on 24 inchers is 6ms gtg, and 12 for full cycle. SO where did you get this 60 ms from?

Read the links I supplied above for info on Input Lag.
October 24, 2006 10:55:11 PM

yeah i understood, but dont the crt have it as well?
October 24, 2006 10:57:38 PM

Yeah now i have to get a tv tuner card allthough i find the pip to be pretty pointless. Setting up a tv on display two will be nice.
October 25, 2006 12:11:38 AM

No... check out the screenshots on those links. It shows how these people arrived at the 60ms number. They were comparing the Dell 2405 to a CRT.
October 25, 2006 12:22:00 AM

Quote:
The delay measured for 7 monitors
After practical tests, here is something more precise. This time we measured the possible delay of LCD monitors to a 1/1000th of second. We realised four points:
- the CRT monitor was never late compared to a LCD monitor.
- the delay isn´t due to the refreshing rate: 60Hz or 75 Hz doesn´t´ change anything.
- it isn´t due to the interface. One monitor won´t be faster in DVI than in analog. The double conversions do not slow down the monitor. It’s important to remind you that all CRT function with analog signals.
- the delay changes with time. We took ten measurements in a row to look for the maximum, minimum and, most of all average, delay.
October 25, 2006 1:01:41 AM

Well, thanks for providing a quote that helps me with my earlier statement that cables don't matter.

Anyway, I have found this is a frustrating issue. There's not a lot of documentation on it, so it's hard to tell why it is happening (I've heard people say that they believe it's Overdrive technology, but it's just speculation). But, it definitely exists.

I really liked the looks of that Samsung monitor I bought and tried everything to get it to work properly, but it was a no-go. I tweaked every setting on my graphics card, tried 4 different cables, swapped out PCs, swapped out mice, used nvidia card as well as ATI, tried running at a lower resolution (1024x768) to rule out the high resolution as the problem, etc. I tested the same monitor in a store and could feel the lag on it as well, so I know I'm not crazy.
October 25, 2006 9:35:30 AM

the quote doesnt say what monitors what resolutions it doesnt say anything i can find you equil amount of quotes saying otherwise. But i dont care its a pointless argument i cant see in shutter frames and i spent hours trying to see delays if they are there they are caused by more then just the monitor or so small that well even trying to find it for hours on end couldnt see it.
October 25, 2006 2:03:17 PM

Ugh, this argument is getting obtuse and pointless. I'll solve it. Get this monitor:

http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?&ref=c...

Do not pass Go. Do not Collect $200. Buy 2 of these.

Reviews here:

http://www.xyzcomputing.com/index.php?option=content&ta...

Here:

http://www.bcchardware.com/index.php?option=com_content...

Here:

http://www.short-media.com/review.php?r=336

Basically, they mostly said its a good monitor, good response time, a bit cool but color correction will help it, and some backlight bleeding on some of the older batches but fixed in newer ones.
October 25, 2006 2:17:10 PM

Wow Doughbuy... that really left no room for argument and solved the issue. :roll:
!