Athlon 64 X2 3800+ EE SFF

[rubiocesar83]

Does any1 knows when this processor its gonna be available to purchase?
I've searched in google and cannot find any place that has it for sale.

Thanks.
Cesar.

 

[jaguarskx]

I did a quick search and no e-tailer has it in stock. I e-tailer listed it as discountinued interesting enough. There are two versions of the X2 3800+; the 35w and 65w versions.

Are you building a new PC from scratch or do you already have an AM2 system? The following article from www.xbitlabs.com compares the Athlon 64 X2 EEs to the Core 2 Duo E6300:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/amd-energy-efficient.html

While idle the X2 3800+ EE 35w CPU consumes 11w compared to the C2D E6300 of 26w. Using the test PCs, the Athlon X2 3800+ system consumed 174w while the C2D E6300 consumed 191w. That's a difference of between 15w for the CPUs and 17w when looking at the overall system.

When using the program called S'n'M to fully stress the CPUs and memory controllers, power consumption on the X2 3800+ EE is 31w compared to the E6300 of 38w. As for total system power consumption. The X2 3800+ EE comes in at 209w compared to 222w for the C2D E6300. That's a difference of 7w for the CPU, and 13w for the total system.

As you can see the Athlon 64 3800+ EE 35w CPU beats the Core 2 Duo E6300. But the difference is very small. Let's take a look at some prices:

I a said, there are two flavors of the X2 3800+ EE; 35w and 65w. The normal "vanilla" X2 3800 checks in at 89w. The lowest listed price I've found for the X2 3800+ EE 65w is $192 excluding shipping. The lowest price I've seen for the EE 35w version is $409 excluding shipping:

FROOGLE search on X2 3800+ EE

That is quite a large jump in price from the EE 65w to the EE 35w version. I'm sure prices will fall on the EE 35w once they become available. But the actual price is uncertain.

The Core 2 Duo E6300 can be had for $183 including free shipping from newegg.com, and it is readily available.

Number Crunching Time:

Just to reiterate what I said above; when idle the X2 3800 EE 35w CPU uses 15w less than the C2D E6300 and under load it would be 7w less. Let's say your PC will be on 24 hours a day, every day of the year and it will be idle most of the time. What would be energy savings between the X2 3800 EE 35w and the C2D E6300?

Difference while idle = 15w
Daily power savings = 15w x 24 hours = 360w
Total power savings for 1 year = 360w x 365 days = 131,400w or 131.4KW

Savings @ $0.19 per KWH (NYC) = 131.4 x $0.19 = $24.97
Savings @ $0.095 per KWH (National Average) = 131.4 x $0.095 = $12.48
Savings @ $0.06 per KWH (Someplace Cheap) = 131.4 x $0.06 = $7.88

The difference in price between the Athlon X2 3800+ EE 35w and the C2D E6300 = $409 - $183 = $226

If you live in NYC then it will take you 9 years to recoup the extra cost in electricity savings: $226 / $24.97 per year = 9.05 years

If you are paying the national average for the cost of electricity then it will take you 18 years to recoup the extra cost in electricity savings: $226 / $12.48 per year = 18.1 years

If you are a lucky devil paying only $0.06 per KHW then it will take you more than 28 years to recoup the extra cost in electricity savings: $226 / $7.88 per year = 28.68 years

The above calculations are assuming the PC is kept on 24/7 for the entire year.

In the end, is it worth buying the Athlon 64 X2 3800+ EE 35w CPU? I'll let the numbers speak for themselves.

 

[quantumsheep]

I did a quick search and no e-tailer has it in stock. I e-tailer listed it as discountinued interesting enough. There are two versions of the X2 3800+; the 35w and 65w versions.

Are you building a new PC from scratch or do you already have an AM2 system? The following article from www.xbitlabs.com compares the Athlon 64 X2 EEs to the Core 2 Duo E6300:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/amd-energy-efficient.html

While idle the X2 3800+ EE 35w CPU consumes 11w compared to the C2D E6300 of 26w. Using the test PCs, the Athlon X2 3800+ system consumed 174w while the C2D E6300 consumed 191w. That's a difference of between 15w for the CPUs and 17w when looking at the overall system.

When using the program called S'n'M to fully stress the CPUs and memory controllers, power consumption on the X2 3800+ EE is 31w compared to the E6300 of 38w. As for total system power consumption. The X2 3800+ EE comes in at 209w compared to 222w for the C2D E6300. That's a difference of 7w for the CPU, and 13w for the total system.

As you can see the Athlon 64 3800+ EE 35w CPU beats the Core 2 Duo E6300. But the difference is very small. Let's take a look at some prices:

I a said, there are two flavors of the X2 3800+ EE; 35w and 65w. The normal "vanilla" X2 3800 checks in at 89w. The lowest listed price I've found for the X2 3800+ EE 65w is $192 excluding shipping. The lowest price I've seen for the EE 35w version is $409 excluding shipping:

FROOGLE search on X2 3800+ EE

That is quite a large jump in price from the EE 65w to the EE 35w version. I'm sure prices will fall on the EE 35w once they become available. But the actual price is uncertain.

The Core 2 Duo E6300 can be had for $183 including free shipping from newegg.com, and it is readily available.

Number Crunching Time:

Just to reiterate what I said above; when idle the X2 3800 EE 35w CPU uses 15w less than the C2D E6300 and under load it would be 7w less. Let's say your PC will be on 24 hours a day, every day of the year and it will be idle most of the time. What would be energy savings between the X2 3800 EE 35w and the C2D E6300?

Difference while idle = 15w
Daily power savings = 15w x 24 hours = 360w
Total power savings for 1 year = 360w x 365 days = 131,400w or 131.4KW

Savings @ $0.19 per KWH (NYC) = 131.4 x $0.19 = $24.97
Savings @ $0.095 per KWH (National Average) = 131.4 x $0.095 = $12.48
Savings @ $0.06 per KWH (Someplace Cheap) = 131.4 x $0.06 = $7.88

The difference in price between the Athlon X2 3800+ EE 35w and the C2D E6300 = $409 - $183 = $226

If you live in NYC then it will take you 9 years to recoup the extra cost in electricity savings: $226 / $24.97 per year = 9.05 years

If you are paying the national average for the cost of electricity then it will take you 18 years to recoup the extra cost in electricity savings: $226 / $12.48 per year = 18.1 years

If you are a lucky devil paying only $0.06 per KHW then it will take you more than 28 years to recoup the extra cost in electricity savings: $226 / $7.88 per year = 28.68 years

The above calculations are assuming the PC is kept on 24/7 for the entire year.

In the end, is it worth buying the Athlon 64 X2 3800+ EE 35w CPU? I'll let the numbers speak for themselves.

Think you just said there is everything there is to say, but i have one more point to make. The E6300 is a MUCH better performer than the x2 3800+.

Just my £0.02.

 

[dean7]

jaguarskx, you're a genius.

I just wanted to point out the fact that there could be other reasons a person would want to buy the X2 3800+ EE. I mean, if you're in to environmental issues you might buy one to reduce energy spent on your PC and thus reduce greenhouse gas emissions. I know it's not a big difference from the Intel C2D, but to some people it could be that important (plus, up until C2D Intel was way behind on energy efficient CPUs, so people who are in to environmental issues are probably loyal to AMD already).

Anyway, that was an awesome amount of info. It pretty much capped this thread off because there's not a whole lot left to say. :lol:

 

[rubiocesar83]

jaguarskx:

I live in Wisconsin and off-peak(7pm-7am or viseversa & weekends) energy cost for me is $0.038/kwh....lucky guy huh...

Excellent work calculating costs. You can be a great manager.

The reason that I am interested in the EE SFF is because I am planning
on having my PC or better say HTPC out in the field with a battery (12V probably) feeding power to it.

Another reason would be less fan noise.

Those 2 reasons are very important for direct recording to disk live video.

Where did you see the EE 35W for $409?

Thanks.

Cesar Rubio.

 

[rubiocesar83]

Nevermind.
I found several places in the link that you put in your post.

You are right about cost ....they are kind of expensive.
probably I will wait 1 year and then the price will be 1/2 or less.

For now I can begin my project with the 65w version.

Thanks everybody for your comments.

 

[accord99]

Or you could buy a C2D and undervolt it to 1.1v, which should give you around 25W power consumption or less for the CPU.

Or get a C2D laptop which should consume less than 40W total under load, including the display.

 

[rubiocesar83]

accord99:

If I do as you said.... the processor wont be loosing performance?

According to this test the C2D E6400 was the worst for power consumption:

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/09/25/green_machine/page4.html

Thanks.
Cesar.

 

[accord99]

It's not a fair comparison, they used a high full-size ATX motherboard non-power optimized motherboard with the E6400, while using a low-power micro-ATX motherboard for the A64s. The E6400 is also considerably faster than any of the A64 processors.

With a 945G motherboard and under-volting to 1.1v, a E6400 can match the power consumption of the SFF EE while matching the performance of the FX-60.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=33733

 

[rubiocesar83]

128MB of RAM vs 1GB in the tests does not affect power consumption?

 

[accord99]

128MB of RAM vs 1GB in the tests does not affect power consumption?

He's referring to the video card.

 

[rubiocesar83]

Thanks.
I will look more into this info.

 

[rubiocesar83]

Do you think that the Intel Xeon 3040 conroe is better than the E6300 conroe?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16819117102

This especs. does not show voltage requirements.

Thanks.
Cesar.

 

[rubiocesar83]

I cannot believe that the only 945G MB in newegg does not have a IEEE1394 port (firewire)
and the max DDR2 supported memory is only 667.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813128016

 

[mpjesse]

Excellent post, thanks. I too was looking for the EESFF x2 3800+. From an energy savings perspective, you'd have to be a moron to select this CPU.

HOWEVER

I was looking at this CPU for an HTPC. My thought was this CPU could probably handle not having a fan. I'm trying to build a very quiet HTPC. I haven't seen any information on CPU temps w/o a fan unfortunately.

 

[accord99]

Do you think that the Intel Xeon 3040 conroe is better than the E6300 conroe?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16819117102

This especs. does not show voltage requirements.

Thanks.
Cesar.

They should be identical for the most part, its rumored that the Xeon overclocks better but that isn't important for you.

I cannot believe that the only 945G MB in newegg does not have a IEEE1394 port (firewire)
and the max DDR2 supported memory is only 667.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813128016

Yeah, they are rare. I could only find one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131046

The 945 chipset only supports speeds up to 667MHz, though the difference between 800MHz and 667MHz for a C2D is not too large.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/memory/display/core2duo-memory-guide_7.html

 

[accord99]

I was looking at this CPU for an HTPC. My thought was this CPU could probably handle not having a fan. I'm trying to build a very quiet HTPC. I haven't seen any information on CPU temps w/o a fan unfortunately.

I tried it for a little bit with an E6600/P5B-deluxe.

I used a Antec NSK6500 case, a mid-tower case. The PSU was the included high-efficiency 430W unit with a 80mm fan, so it wasn't do any real exhausting. The only other fan is an 800rpm 120mm fan. With a Scythe Ninja, and the E6600 undervolted to 1.1v, it reached around 51C after 30 minutes of dual-prime.

With a 1200rpm 120mm fan on the Ninja, dual Prime reached about 41C and lower than my idle temperatures with the E6600 at 3.2GHz.

Temperatures were measured with the Intel Thermal Analysis Tool.

 

[rubiocesar83]

Do you know what onboard chipset is better for video playback?

The Intel 950 or the Nvidia 6150?

Thanks.
Cesar.

 

[accord99]

The 6150 is supposed to be better, as it is said to have decoding support for h.264. However, there hasn't been any evidence that it works and the E6300 is powerful enough to decode HD media without problems.

 

[rubiocesar83]

Thanks accord99.

 

[crow_smiling]

A desktop system that uses a Core 2 Duo mobile chip (Merom) will have the best performance per watt and be cheaper than the X2 EE SFF. A T5500 (1.66GHz) has about the same performance as an X2 3800 and costs ~$210. The motherboards aren’t cheap; the Asus N4L-VM DH is ~$120. If you don’t need dual-core you can use a Celeron M 4xx series chip which are very cheap; they start at ~$50.
I have this Asus board with a Celeron M 420 (1.6GHz) and it idles at 39W and consumes ~50W at load. This is with a 250GB SATA desktop drive and 1GB DDR2-533.

 

[306maxi]

It's not a fair comparison, they used a high full-size ATX motherboard non-power optimized motherboard with the E6400, while using a low-power micro-ATX motherboard for the A64s. The E6400 is also considerably faster than any of the A64 processors.

With a 945G motherboard and under-volting to 1.1v, a E6400 can match the power consumption of the SFF EE while matching the performance of the FX-60.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=33733

I also think it should be taken into consideration that the 6400 will spend less time at load due to the fact it's a faster CPU. Less time @ load means less power used.

 

[breedalot]

you allso might want to consider a via solution (if perfomans is not and issue) or i think there are some mini itx c2d bourds on the market if size is and issue to

 

[jaguarskx]

I was looking at this CPU for an HTPC. My thought was this CPU could probably handle not having a fan. I'm trying to build a very quiet HTPC. I haven't seen any information on CPU temps w/o a fan unfortunately.

I too am looking for an appropriate CPU for my next HTPC. I currently am using an Athlon XP-M 2600+ and SpeedFan to control idle and load speeds. It's getting long in the tooth though.

Meron is a possibility, but there are only 3 different socket 479 motherboards, 1 is ATX and the other 2 are m-ATX. But this is a project for next year since I upgraded my primary rig to a C2D E6600 not too long ago.

In addition to the handful of socket 479 mobo, there aren't any aftermarket HSF for purchase so a completely passive cooling solution may not be possible.

 

[jaguarskx]

you allso might want to consider a via solution (if perfomans is not and issue) or i think there are some mini itx c2d bourds on the market if size is and issue to

That is quite true. While VIA CPUs are no where near as powerful as AMD's and Intel's offerings, they do fill a niche market for people who want to build a quiet HTPC without the frills.

I recall reading an article where the VIA was torture tested while playing a game without the heatsink attached. That's pretty impressive, but I don't recall from which site the article was from.

Time to go Googling.....

-------------------------------------------

Try as I have, I can't find the article I was referring to. Anywaste VIA's current generation of CPU as known as C7, C7-D (desktop), C7-M (mobile), and Eden. Eden does not require a HSF, but that was not the CPU I was referring to above.