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AMD64 X2 s939 worth it?

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October 20, 2006 12:29:10 PM

Hi all,

This may well have been covered before but finding something in here is like looking in a haystack for a needle so I'll try it this way.

Currently I have a ASUS A8N-SLI mobo which has a 939 socket. I'd like to do an upgrade on my AMD64 3800+.

I wonder about how long tHe fastest one available for 939 ( i think) the AMD64 X2 4600+ (a dual core), may be running in short supply because the AM2 socket seems to take over any offering out there fast.

My question: is such an upgrade worth it, or should I wait it out and upgrade my mobo as well as my cpu later on? I will want to play Crysis with reasonable settings, so I'll need some power boost I'm sure.

And yes I'll probably need a gfx card upgrade as well, although I'm not inclined to also upgrade my OS to Vista, just for dx10, that'll have to wait till my next rig.

More about : amd64 s939 worth

October 20, 2006 12:56:01 PM

Hi, regarding your CPU ... my advice is to go on and overclock the thing to 2400 MHZ (it's safe to that speed, no voltage increase is needed).
This way, you get a 4600+ for free :D 

Also be aware that the most important thing for a game is a good video board and you need lots of RAM (2 Gb maybe :? ).
October 20, 2006 1:33:55 PM

Quote:
Hi, regarding your CPU ... my advice is to go on and overclock the thing to 2400 MHZ (it's safe to that speed, no voltage increase is needed).
This way, you get a 4600+ for free :D 


But the X2 is a dual core, or you do want to imply there's no added value in a dual core for a game like Crysis?

On a related note (this is for anyone), if an app cannot make use of the dual cores, would this make the app slower on the X2 4600+, than running it on my single core 3800+?

Quote:

Also be aware that the most important thing for a game is a good video board and you need lots of RAM (2 Gb maybe :? ).

I'm quite aware of that, thanks. I already have 2Gb in my system, a decent gfx card although I will probably need an upgrade in that department as well. As I have a SLI mobo I may be able to score two decent SLI cards for a reasonable amount.

[edit]
I just checked out the CPU charts, so that gave me a first answer, but I'm still interested in anyone else's opinion on this.
[/edit]
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a c 478 à CPUs
October 20, 2006 1:49:13 PM

AMD will be ending production of the S939 Athlon 64 in December. The last shipments will probably be delivered in January 2007 to the various vendors.

If the X2 4600+ is the fastest CPU you want then stick with S939. That's because if you switch to socket AM2 Athlons you will need to buy DDR2 800 RAM to get the same performance as socket S939 using DDR 400 when comparing the same model. If you want something faster than the X2 4600+ then you'll need to switch over to socket AM2. The exception would be the FX-60.

If an app is not multi-threaded then the second core will not be taken advantage of. Therefore the app would perform the same on the A64 3800+ and the A64 X2 4600+ because they are both running at the same clockspeed. The X2 4600+ could have a small advantage though because the background programs can run on the second core; leaving the first core for the app that you want to run.
October 20, 2006 2:09:07 PM

I say hold off a bit. s939 is still a more then capable platform. If you wait a little while longer you'll see a lot more price drops and can step up to, possibly, and FX-60. the 3800+ should have no problem running any of the current games with a decent GPU. Keep the 3800+ until you find that it is lacking, then upgrade.
October 20, 2006 2:40:51 PM

Quote:
AMD will be ending production of the S939 Athlon 64 in December. The last shipments will probably be delivered in January 2007 to the various vendors.

If the X2 4600+ is the fastest CPU you want then stick with S939. That's because if you switch to socket AM2 Athlons you will need to buy DDR2 800 RAM to get the same performance as socket S939 using DDR 400 when comparing the same model. If you want something faster than the X2 4600+ then you'll need to switch over to socket AM2. The exception would be the FX-60.


I don't want to upgrade my mobo and memory so I'm stuck with the S939 socket. I am worried I won't be able to get my hands on a decent improvement over my 3800+ once AMD stops shipping them.

The FX-60 (also a dual core, right?) is clearly outperforming the X2 4600+ but it's also way more expensive at the moment (almost 4x as expensive).

So my dilemma (also in response to TSIMonster's post) is, should I wait till I really need it, but will they still be around then? Or go for most price effective solution now (de X2 4600)?
October 20, 2006 2:46:54 PM

Quote:
I would definately wait and upgrade the whole platform.
The 3800+ is a wicked gaming chip and dont think you will notice much if any difference running games with the X2. If you do a lot of multi-tasking then the x2 is a good option. That 3800+ is a mean chip though, no need to get rid of it.


Understood. However I am looking ahead some, and the games incoming during 2007 will definitely utilize dual/multi core (Crysis, Alan Wake). There's another reason for me to consider upgrade over full platform replacement: I'm buying my systems for business and pleasure, the business part of it means that I have to depreciate the system over a 3 year lifespan for tax deduction reasons. The machine is now 1.5 years old, so I'd be shooting myself in the foot by replacing it fully at the moment. I don't need another system added to my inventory at the moment, so replacing my machine would basically double my costs. I like gaming but not that much.
a c 478 à CPUs
October 20, 2006 3:03:12 PM

Quote:
I don't want to upgrade my mobo and memory so I'm stuck with the S939 socket. I am worried I won't be able to get my hands on a decent improvement over my 3800+ once AMD stops shipping them.

The FX-60 (also a dual core, right?) is clearly outperforming the X2 4600+ but it's also way more expensive at the moment (almost 4x as expensive).

So my dilemma (also in response to TSIMonster's post) is, should I wait till I really need it, but will they still be around then? Or go for most price effective solution now (de X2 4600)?


You can wait for AMD to reduce prices on the S939 CPU, but don't wait too long. When AMD first introduced the Athlon 64 socket 754, they were still producing the Athlon XP. Sometime after the Athlon XP ceased production AMD decided to jack up prices (extemely high) for all XP CPUs to "convince" consumers to buy the Athlon 64s.

Will AMD jack up prices on the S933 CPUs next year to "convince" people to switch over to socket AM2? That's unknown, but it is a possibility.

As the old saying goes:

"Damned if you do, damned if you don't."
October 20, 2006 3:24:15 PM

Quote:
I would definately wait and upgrade the whole platform.
The 3800+ is a wicked gaming chip and dont think you will notice much if any difference running games with the X2. If you do a lot of multi-tasking then the x2 is a good option. That 3800+ is a mean chip though, no need to get rid of it.


Understood. However I am looking ahead some, and the games incoming during 2007 will definitely utilize dual/multi core (Crysis, Alan Wake). There's another reason for me to consider upgrade over full platform replacement: I'm buying my systems for business and pleasure, the business part of it means that I have to depreciate the system over a 3 year lifespan for tax deduction reasons. The machine is now 1.5 years old, so I'd be shooting myself in the foot by replacing it fully at the moment. I don't need another system added to my inventory at the moment, so replacing my machine would basically double my costs. I like gaming but not that much.It's basically a gamble either way. You won't gain any noticeable improvement on single-threaded games(most), but how many games do you think will be multi-threaded(and will you be playing) within the next 1.5 years? There's no question that multi-media apps, and general multi-tasking will improve with the dual-core....gaming is probably the deal-maker/breaker for you. If you can sell your 3800+ and recoup some of the expense to upgrade, then it won't be so much of an issue. GL :) 
October 20, 2006 3:25:24 PM

Quote:

I don't want to upgrade my mobo and memory so I'm stuck with the S939 socket. I am worried I won't be able to get my hands on a decent improvement over my 3800+ once AMD stops shipping them.

The FX-60 (also a dual core, right?) is clearly outperforming the X2 4600+ but it's also way more expensive at the moment (almost 4x as expensive).

So my dilemma (also in response to TSIMonster's post) is, should I wait till I really need it, but will they still be around then? Or go for most price effective solution now (de X2 4600)?


I'm in a similar quandry, considering an upgrade to my present s939 or building a new machine. Costwise, even buying a FX-60 would be cheaper than building a whole new platform, the cpu, motherboard, and ram. Also is the fact that at least at present, the AM2 is not noticably faster than the 939. That will probably change in time, but I have to deal with the present for now.

If you want the 4600+ cpu, I would buy now. I have noticed some vendors are running short of particular cpu's, and higher prices are soon to happen. The 4600+ can also be overclocked to some decent numbers if you want, but if this is a business machine, you may not want to do that. My office machines never get touched in overclocking. There's too much valuable stuff to risk. My gaming machine, on the other hand, is where I play and overclock to my heart's content.

Personally, I'd jump on an FX-60, but I have had some recent unexpected expenses that are holding me down at the moment.
October 20, 2006 3:27:54 PM

if you dont want to upgrade your whole system so soon... and youre stuck with s939, there seems like only one viable option available (and a relatively inexpensive option at that)... go for the X2 3800+, it typically OCs to X2 5000+/FX-60 speeds (2.6GHz), sometimes higher, but close to that at any rate... you cant go wrong by going dual core, if thats what youre worried about, and its only slightly more expensive than a single core upgrade anyhow ($155 at frys.com)... so yes, it makes 100% sense to go dual core on s939, especially if youre wanting to maximize the longevity of your system that youve already spent money on... and games, as you mentioned, are already taking advantage of dual cores anyhow. so, the way i see it, its a no brainer.

also, as far as gaming... your overall experience will be smoother anyhow (even when games arent multithreaded)... you wont necessarily get higher framerates as of yet (which is mostly just dependant on your gpu anyhow), so it probably wont show up in benchmarks, but your overall experience actually playing the game, will smooth out, which is also dependant to an extent, on how many processes windows is running at the time too)

the X2 4600+ is the other cpu option you were saying, slightly more expensive though, but OCs roughly the same as the X2 3800+ (just has a higher default clock speed, 2.4GHz)... so, either way

if you dont know already, be sure to download AMDs dual core drivers (windows doesnt include the necessary drivers by default, and can be likened to using a gpu with only legacy drivers installed as far as performance goes)... the dual core optimizer is another download you can look for on AMDs site if you wanted to.
October 20, 2006 3:43:27 PM

Last time I checked a business could expense up to $105,000 of depreciable property. Refer to Internal Revenue Code Section 179. You cannot change the method of depreciation on your currnet system, but you can sure expense the new one.

I suppose you could amend your prior returns, but thats probably not worth the audit risk.
October 20, 2006 4:57:00 PM

Thanks for all the help guys, appreciate it.

Quote:
Last time I checked a business could expense up to $105,000 of depreciable property. Refer to Internal Revenue Code Section 179. You cannot change the method of depreciation on your currnet system, but you can sure expense the new one.

I suppose you could amend your prior returns, but thats probably not worth the audit risk.


Well, there is life outside of the US of A ("but not as we know it, Jim") and I'm part of it. Laws are different here but probably not that different.

Of course I could buy a new machine but I cannot account for it business wise as I don't need an extra machine. Even if I can actually account for it, then I still don't need an extra system so I'd still spend my money for naught. Selling the old system (supposing I could get a decent price for it) and getting a new one, doesn't get me a new depreciation method under Dutch law (don't ask, I don't understand it myself).
October 20, 2006 5:51:34 PM

Didn't AMD discontinue all s939 duel core chips with 2mb L2, so u can't get FX60's or 4800's or 4400s, at least i've found u can't get them in Oz.
October 20, 2006 5:59:03 PM

Newegg still stocks X2 4800+ and FX-60s. The 4800+ beuing a dying breed is now about $280 which is killer. Also the 2MB L2 (2x1MB) is welcome. If you can get it at this price, BUY IT! Don't bother with the FX-60, it's way too expensive for the performance it offers.
October 20, 2006 6:49:34 PM

i am in the same delima.
i have 2 939 mobo,s one is new in the box.
i just ordered a x2 4400 toledo core from new egg for 225$
to replace the singlecore 3700 that i am currently using.

what i am planning on doing is splitting up the 4 512 sticks of
memory and one of the 68gt,s to make two computers.

i think it is a good choice.

and i think you are making a good choice to.
October 21, 2006 4:24:32 AM

I should have scrolled up top to see that your in the Netherlands. :lol:  No Sec. 179 expense for you.
October 21, 2006 5:08:50 AM

don't you dare upgrade from 3800+ sheeeesh

that would be dumb... GPUs are taxed to the max.... GPUs need constant upgrading... keep your 3800 till the day (long way away id say) you find your cpu to be the bottleneck...

we are about to enter the realm of DX10... plutonium powered power supplies.... CTX (versus even BTX) perhaps...

to spend your cash now on a dual core chip?

so what your nerdy friends can have their 3DMark06 scores handed to them? What the hell is the point.

Goodness!

.....


Ok... how about this... decide on the most you will spend on a new chip today... then take that money out... tax incl... then put it in a sock... there you go... now use thaty sock of cash in a year and you will be happy you did.

BLAMO
October 21, 2006 7:21:01 AM

Quote:
don't you dare upgrade from 3800+ sheeeesh

that would be dumb... GPUs are taxed to the max.... GPUs need constant upgrading... keep your 3800 till the day (long way away id say) you find your cpu to be the bottleneck...


Are you into gaming? With the arrival of multi core consoles, the introduction of games that actually utilize multi-core architecture is going faster than (at least I) anticipated before. Check out ingame movies of Crysis, or the material of Adam Wake. Not only are these taxing on graphics, they also contain an extraordinary amount of physics, really bringing immersion to a new level.

I think the rate which the CPU will become the bottleneck for such games is accellerating, and I'm having the bad luck of being on an end of like socket.
October 21, 2006 8:19:18 AM

well, TBH... if your system is 'only' being used for gaming (ie, not much else), the benefit of a new dual core over your existing cpu, wouldnt be huge... ...for gaming, a better performing GPU is a more worthwhile investment, and will have the most profound impact on games in general, followed by everything else.

if you are intent on purchasing a dual core however, you do seem hesitant about it, which is understandable considering you dont have one... but ill tell you (as im sure anyone else will), that it certainly wont be slower than what you have (especially in a multi core capable OS, which means 'all' applications will benefit to varying extents, especially the applications that are specifically coded as such to actually acknowledge the additional core)
October 21, 2006 9:23:38 AM

It is the cheapest way to upgrade and it is OK. As for Vista, for what I know, every Intel CPU CeleronD and above, PentiumD and above is OK. For AMD, all K8 CPUs will be OK, from socket 754 to AM2.
October 21, 2006 5:35:07 PM

I recently took advantage of the lowered prices and upgraded my 3500+ to an X2 4600+ (S939) and I haven't regretted it one bit. Since, at the moment, Intel wears the performance crown, personally I would only consider a complete overhaul if I was going all the way to a Core 2 Duo. Otherwise, injecting some more life to your current set-up (while you still can) is, I think, the wiser route. AM2 has failed to lure me away from S939, to stop me from daydreaming of a C2D, or to make the purchase of a new mobo and new memory appealing.
a b à CPUs
October 21, 2006 5:46:39 PM

Quote:
I would definately wait and upgrade the whole platform.
The 3800+ is a wicked gaming chip and dont think you will notice much if any difference running games with the X2. If you do a lot of multi-tasking then the x2 is a good option. That 3800+ is a mean chip though, no need to get rid of it.


Understood. However I am looking ahead some, and the games incoming during 2007 will definitely utilize dual/multi core (Crysis, Alan Wake). There's another reason for me to consider upgrade over full platform replacement: I'm buying my systems for business and pleasure, the business part of it means that I have to depreciate the system over a 3 year lifespan for tax deduction reasons. The machine is now 1.5 years old, so I'd be shooting myself in the foot by replacing it fully at the moment. I don't need another system added to my inventory at the moment, so replacing my machine would basically double my costs. I like gaming but not that much.

Ok, i'll help out.

After reading all of the responses I feel people are not understanding the dilemma you're faced with.

You want to play Crysis, Alan Wake and UT2007 I gather and are wondering how well these games will benefit from a Dual Core processor. ALL THREE OF THESE GAMES are Multi-Threaded and will BENEFIT GREATLY from an AMD Athlon64 4600+.

The catch is that AMD is slowing production of socket 939 CPU's to help meet the Dell demand for Socket AM2 (hence Socket 939 CPU's are starting to go up in price and some models are harder and harder to find like the X2 3800+).

In other words, if you can afford it right now, I'd recommend you get the X2 4600+ before it's too late. THEY WON'T drop in price anymore. In fact you should see them go up steadily over the next few months as Demand exceeds Supply.
October 21, 2006 9:16:31 PM

I agree... but I prefer the Opteron dual core's for 939... especially if used for businesses since they are manufactured to a tighter spec and designed for 24/7 operation... also they overclock pretty good...
and supplies are and will continue to decline rapidly...

So BigMac might consider one of these Opteron chips...

You can get one for as low as $151 for a 165 up to $299 for a 180
ya shouldn't have much trouble getting someone to drop ship it to ya. :wink:

Or the Opteron 175 for $240...
October 21, 2006 10:12:07 PM

Quote:
I agree... but I prefer the Opteron dual core's for 939... especially if used for businesses since they are manufactured to a tighter spec and designed for 24/7 operation... also they overclock pretty good...
and supplies are and will continue to decline rapidly...

So BigMac might consider one of these Opteron chips...

You can get one for as low as $151 for a 165 up to $299 for a 180
ya shouldn't have much trouble getting someone to drop ship it to ya. :wink:

Or the Opteron 175 for $240...

Newegg has 165 optys but even they're as frequent to be found as falling stars; you merely have the time to see them appeare for 30 mins and they're gone.
October 21, 2006 10:32:50 PM

I am with everyone else here.

i have a 3700 and i am wondering if i should jump on a $225 x2 4400 while i still can. (not an easy decision for someone with no steady income)
October 21, 2006 10:36:56 PM

I have the same problem but you've got to take a decision and do it pretty fast. I did mine; better lose my face than the upgrade to a X2 :lol: 
October 22, 2006 1:01:09 AM

Heh. Just bought one about 3 hours ago.

Got away with telling my parents it was only $200 so i saved myself 20 bucks.


oh. and $245 for 165.
October 22, 2006 1:39:23 AM

I made the same upgrade from the 3800+ to the X2 4600+ and have never had any regrets. I would buy soon however as stocks are depleting very fast.
October 22, 2006 2:18:43 AM

I have an S939 MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum with a 64 4000+ San Diego Core and have been asking myself the same thing. The 4800X2 is now less than I paid for my 64 4000+ and while the 4800X2's performance is better, its not staggeringly better. I'm taking a wait and see approach as prices may drop more towards the end of the year as S939 is phased out. Currently there is little if anything to be gained by going to AM2 right now as CPU performance is similar and in this case not only woukd you need a new MB & CPU but also a decent amount of not inexpensive DDR800 RAM and that little lot will add up. The 3700 will probably do all you need for now and I've generally found for gaming the graphics card usually makes the biggest difference. At teh end of teh year you may be able to get a 4600X2 or 4800X2 for $200 in which case the upgrade may be worth it.
October 22, 2006 9:08:47 AM

Quote:
I made the same upgrade from the 3800+ to the X2 4600+ and have never had any regrets. I would buy soon however as stocks are depleting very fast.

Yes, the only problem with me is that even when they buy it for me I'll have to wait a month or two till I get it (don't trust the postal service here). However, a X2 3800+ or 4200+ will be enough futureproof to let me sleep well some good time.
October 22, 2006 9:14:28 AM

Also bear in mind that the 4600+ is a really decent performer. When it comes to gaming the GPU is still the single component that makes the most difference so you shouldn't worry too much about which CPU to get at that level and budget. The point is to go from single core to dual core.
October 24, 2006 1:43:07 AM

That Opty 170 is a bad biatch. Just swap my 3200 out for one, but the 165 seems to be the real stunna of the family and its cheap so you'll have hard time regreting your purchase even if u don't like it (you'll like it dude :lol: )
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