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New fastest AGP card on the block...

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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October 21, 2006 9:33:13 PM

It's official, the Gainward BLISS 7800GS+ AGP card has been beaten, a new fastest AGP card has been released and its available for order!!!

GeCube ATI Radeon X1950 Pro 256MB GDDR3 VIVO TV-Out/Dual DVI (AGP)

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/ATI_AGP_Graphics...

ohh mama

More about : fastest agp card block

a b U Graphics card
October 21, 2006 9:50:55 PM

Quote:
It's official, the Gainward BLISS 7800GS+ AGP card has been beaten

It has been mentioned already and is nice to see. But as far as beating the Gainward Bliss+, that's not really official until they are pitted against each other. Seeing how the bliss is a 450/1250 clocked 24-pipe 7900, the x1950 pro should be able to beat it if it truely is spec'd the same as the PCI-e. It may be a fairly safe bet, but it's not official. :D 
October 21, 2006 10:24:07 PM

Quote:
X1900 XT performance but with the advantage of much lower power consumption, cooler running and now available on AGP. A cracking card for very little money and one that packs a serious punch with superb image quality.
Riiight. :lol: 
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October 22, 2006 12:08:46 AM

gd to see i can upgrade my 6800xt without moving to pcie yet
October 22, 2006 12:26:22 AM

Ya but is it going to be released in the good old USA?
a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2006 1:15:24 AM

Quote:
Ya but is it going to be released in the good old USA?

With Gecube, Powercolor, and Sapphire all making them, sure they should be in the USA. The problem with Gainward is Gainward North America closed up shop, that's why we can't buy any Gainwards over here without getting them shipped from across the UK (etc.)
October 22, 2006 1:39:25 AM

Any idea of the cost? I see the UK cost but not sure what their pounds to our dollars are....
October 22, 2006 8:53:24 AM

Quote:
Any idea of the cost? I see the UK cost but not sure what their pounds to our dollars are....


An exact conversion is about $285 ish
October 22, 2006 1:04:10 PM

which means that in the US, it WILL be cheaper than that... tends to be higher priced kit here in the UK than the US...
October 23, 2006 8:16:55 PM

Quote:
which means that in the US, it WILL be cheaper than that... tends to be higher priced kit here in the UK than the US...


Kinda odd site to see; all these ATi third party vendors tripping over themselves trying to market an x1950 for the AGP market. I( I think it great news) However, I still think its an odd site to see. Would this have still happened if AMD never made the buyout of ATi?
October 23, 2006 9:12:29 PM

Quote:
Would this have still happened if AMD never made the buyout of ATi?


Corporate changovers take a long time to effect stuff like this.
The AMD takeover couldn't possibly have effected the AGP X1950 PRO which must have been in the design stages for a while.

Plain and simple, Ati X1900 cards are too power hungry for AGP. The X1950 GT is smaller and requires less power - it's therefore a good AGP candidate.
October 23, 2006 9:49:13 PM

I like that companies still care about people who still use AGP and I also like to know that there is still people out there willing to spend money on their agp systems.

we had the 7800gs for a long time, then we had the visiontek x1300 and in like less than a month we have the new x1950pro THATS GreAT
October 23, 2006 9:50:53 PM

Quote:
I like that companies still care about people who still use AGP and I also like to know that there is still people out there willing to spend money on their agp systems.



they DONT care, your just profit. they make more raping you with AGP then they do with PCI-E....I hope you realize that. :roll:
October 23, 2006 9:53:32 PM

i wonder if its going to be avilable on newegg..... if so ima return my 7600GT AGP... its artifacting! =(
October 23, 2006 10:23:13 PM

well yeah that TOO :roll:
October 24, 2006 8:09:49 PM

Quote:
I like that companies still care about people who still use AGP and I also like to know that there is still people out there willing to spend money on their agp systems.



they DONT care, your just profit. they make more raping you with AGP then they do with PCI-E....I hope you realize that. :roll:

Companies just want profit?
Ah, sort of like the blind migration of acceptance to PCIe??? :wink: :wink: "don't ask questions! It's better, cause we said so!!!" :lol:  :lol: 

How many ugrade dollars have gamers thrown at their rigs to replace mobos, video cards, CPUs or total system replacement based on test bench scores? Plenty, that by and large offer sometimes only slight overall improvement.
October 24, 2006 9:14:08 PM

Quote:
I like that companies still care about people who still use AGP and I also like to know that there is still people out there willing to spend money on their agp systems.



they DONT care, your just profit. they make more raping you with AGP then they do with PCI-E....I hope you realize that. :roll:

So true!!
You have to realize that you can buy a new motherboard that takes PCIe AND a PCIe card for the price of the AGP equivalent. If there were a greater number of PCIe MBs that would take DDR-SDRAM for the various processors that you would want to use(i.e. if you had a choice beyond a few very basic motherboards), then AGP would be dead because the choice would be a true no brainer.

The only reason AGP is still around at grossly inflated prices is because the jump to PCIe usually involves more than just the graphics card/MB. But if you are not out to get a top notch overclocking motherboard, then there ARE some basic motherboards for Conroe/741/939 that take PCIe and DDR-SDRAM, so you can upgrade to PCIe/MB for as cheap as you can get the comparable AGP card.
October 25, 2006 3:52:11 PM

Quote:
Would this have still happened if AMD never made the buyout of ATi?


Corporate changovers take a long time to effect stuff like this.
The AMD takeover couldn't possibly have effected the AGP X1950 PRO which must have been in the design stages for a while.

Plain and simple, Ati X1900 cards are too power hungry for AGP. The X1950 GT is smaller and requires less power - it's therefore a good AGP candidate.


Yes, which is why this topic no doubt was discussed prior to the buyout with AMD. Odd how this move wasn't made until after the merger AMD. No effort made with the x1800 series at all when there wasn't a whiff of AMD interest.

Power hungry or not, ATi approves every GPU release to its third party developers. ATi can sell a x1950 if they want.

Considering that the new 8800 from Nvidia has TWO 6pin molex power connections, lofty power requirements are not limitations for any video interface.
October 25, 2006 4:27:54 PM

Quote:

Considering that the new 8800 from Nvidia has TWO 6pin molex power connections, lofty power requirements are not limitations for any video interface.


I wouldn't agree with that. One of the main justifications of supplying only second-tier cards to AGP was power requirements, which makes sense when you consider that PCIe delivers more power to the bus than AGP, and that a typical AGP user isn't expected to buy a new power supply for their aging AGP system when they could simply buy a new PCIe system.
October 25, 2006 5:40:13 PM

Quote:

Considering that the new 8800 from Nvidia has TWO 6pin molex power connections, lofty power requirements are not limitations for any video interface.


I wouldn't agree with that. One of the main justifications of supplying only second-tier cards to AGP was power requirements, which makes sense when you consider that PCIe delivers more power to the bus than AGP, and that a typical AGP user isn't expected to buy a new power supply for their aging AGP system when they could simply buy a new PCIe system.

Ah, but remember Cleeve, in 2003 PCIe video cards did away with extra power conenctions. That was a crtitcal point against "leading edge" AGP cards. Three years later practically every top end PCIe video card dupticate this practice. Hence the upcomming move to PCIe 2.0 mobo standards to (hopefully) eliminate additional power connections to the card via the slot.
October 25, 2006 5:58:15 PM

I know it's possible, I'm just saying I don't think it's something the manufacturers bothered with foir something thay considered is a dying bus.

AGP sales over the past year have probably given them reason enough to give AGP another crack with a new part, but not with something that would push older AGP systems whose power supplies are probably in the 350w or less range...

I dunno. I guess we can believe whatever we want, but how does an AGP part help AMD, who is moving everything over to the AM2 socket? Even most of their 939 parts use PCIe. I just don't see any reason AMD would bother influencing this.

Seems like a plain and simple delayed reaction to the 7800 GS to me.
October 25, 2006 8:55:06 PM

Quote:
I know it's possible, I'm just saying I don't think it's something the manufacturers bothered with foir something thay considered is a dying bus.

AGP sales over the past year have probably given them reason enough to give AGP another crack with a new part, but not with something that would push older AGP systems whose power supplies are probably in the 350w or less range...

I dunno. I guess we can believe whatever we want, but how does an AGP part help AMD, who is moving everything over to the AM2 socket? Even most of their 939 parts use PCIe. I just don't see any reason AMD would bother influencing this.

Seems like a plain and simple delayed reaction to the 7800 GS to me.


Yes a very delayed reaction. Indeed, every ATi card sold now is a sale for AMD, so why wouldn't they encourage a x1950 AGP? :D  Leave no system (939 or 754) unturned.

One company under green! :wink:
October 25, 2006 8:59:32 PM

Quote:

Yes a very delayed reaction. Indeed, every ATi card sold now is a sale for AMD, so why wouldn't they encourage a x1950 AGP?


Because it would encourage people not to upgrade their CPU and migrate to PCIe... whic is probably something AMD wants. :p 
October 25, 2006 9:36:16 PM

That could be a double edged sword though. Upgrading their CPU could mean upgrading to an Intel CPU. I think they realize there's still money to be made in AGP and money is what AMD/ATI needs right now. They also know, that up until now the best AGP card to get right now get was an nVidia card. Not so true anymore.
October 25, 2006 10:17:14 PM

Anyone spending that amount of cash on an AGP card now is insane imho, and that goes for the Gainward 7800GS+/7900GT and the x1950.

Anyway, why does everyone here insist that ATi gives such better IQ? I have never seen any evidence of this myself, having used both. I suppose as the nVidia drivers still default to 'Quality' rather than 'High Quality' its possible at defaults, but I really dont think there is a noticeable difference between the two.
October 25, 2006 10:56:42 PM

Insane? Nah, not if you have a good setup and can buy the card cheap enough.

Dx10 won't even be useful until Vista, and even then every game made in the next two to four years will have a Dx9 path built in... hell, almost all games today have a Dx8 path, ansd image quality is almost impossible to tell in 90% of the cases.

As far as Nvidia image quality, look up 'texture shimmering' on google. Also look into their angle-dependant AF, their transparent antialiasing and how it doesn't work at anything other than supersampling, how they can't do AA & OpenEXR HDR at the same time... etc.

It's not the end of the world, or even a dealbreaker for me, but Ati does have better IQ.
October 25, 2006 11:07:53 PM

Quote:
That could be a double edged sword though. Upgrading their CPU could mean upgrading to an Intel CPU. I think they realize there's still money to be made in AGP and money is what AMD/ATI needs right now. They also know, that up until now the best AGP card to get right now get was an nVidia card. Not so true anymore.


Let's not get ahead of ourselves. The card in question hasn't yet been released yet. Kinda like proclaiming USC National Champs last year before playing Texas in the Rose Bowl...and we all know how that game ended. :cry:  (Darn Reggie Bush fumbling......) :evil: 
October 26, 2006 1:36:32 PM

Quote:
Insane? Nah, not if you have a good setup and can buy the card cheap enough.


Well, a while back I looked at putting one of the 7900GT based 7800GS's in to my system, then an AMD AthlonXP 2600.

I discovered that while I could buy a PCI-E 7900GT for around £200, the AGP equivalent was £330. This is enough of a premium that it pays for a new CPU anyway, and I would just have had to find a little more cash for a PCI-E mobo.

To someone that has a fairly decent rig, and therefore an LGA-775 or S939 CPU, the extra cash that the AGP variant would cost would be better spend on a PCI-E mobo and PCI-E card, for less total outlay imho.
October 26, 2006 1:44:04 PM

That's because the 7800 GS is overpriced though. The 7600 GT and upcoming X1950 AGP can make a case for AGP upgrading.
October 26, 2006 4:00:21 PM

I think the 7600GT is also over priced. All those AGP cards are over priced.
October 26, 2006 7:09:44 PM

You are certainly entitled to think that. I don't necessarily agree though.
October 26, 2006 7:16:10 PM

True. A lot of people still have very decent S754 AGP systems that would only need a video card refresh such as a 7600GT or X1950 which would hold them out for quite a long time.
October 26, 2006 7:27:56 PM

Well maybe not all of them (I got a x800GTO pretty cheap) but the new versions are expensive. The 7600GT is like 170 bucks! A pci-e is much less.
October 26, 2006 7:28:56 PM

This will probably be the last high-end (not to mention the fastest) AGP card ever.
October 26, 2006 7:30:35 PM

Quote:
This will probably be the last high-end (not to mention the fastest) AGP card ever.


Nah - I expect at least one DX10 card to be converted
October 26, 2006 7:49:01 PM

Speaking up AGP upgrades

My wife's system is as follows.

3200+ Barton
MSI K7N2 mother board
1 gig memory
6800 128mb vanilla AGP card

She plays a lot of City of Heroes and Villians. She gets a lot of lag on Villians and I was wondering what type of adjustments I could make to her system so she would have a better gaming experience. I was thinking a better AGP card would help????????????

She plays at 1280 buy 1024 with some of the effects turned down. I have a cable modem and am looking into verizon fiberoptics to speed things up more but am not sure if that will really make a difference playing.

I agree that AGP is not dead...................not yet :wink:
October 26, 2006 8:09:02 PM

IS that lag as in freeze up for a second every now and then, disk thrashing etc... A faster gfx card will not resolve that issue, that would more be memory...

If you mean just low FPS, then yes a new gfx card will do wonders.
October 26, 2006 8:42:44 PM

I never tested it before using fraps. I just know if you are playing (espicially villians) with the effects turned up and 8 players on a team it will slowdown to almost a slide show.
October 26, 2006 8:47:18 PM

City of Villans? That's an MMO, in many cases lag will be caused by server traffic. Your rig might have nothing to do with it...
October 26, 2006 9:08:15 PM

Im gonna get verizon fiberoptics and see if that helps but I think some of this is graphical because the slowdowns are while in missions and are much more pronounced during battles.
October 26, 2006 9:20:37 PM

Battles are when more data is getting sent to and from the server, so it proves nothing. And even Verizon won't help much if the server is choking.

You should ask around on the COV forums... those guys probably have a much better idea of what bottlenecks the game.
October 26, 2006 9:21:37 PM

Good idea.

Thanks,

:wink:
October 27, 2006 9:08:44 AM

City Of is a game I play quite a bit, and is the reason I have chosen nVidia over ATI.

The x1950 has the performance crown right now, but in CoH/CoV would be equalled and possibly beaten by a 7600GT. CoH/CoV are OpenGL games, and unlike Doom3 are not high profile enough to have had loads of optimisations put into the ATi drivers.

I know people that dont know the game are going to think I'm just a fanboy, but just take a look through the official forums, ATI users are constantly whining that the game plays like crap on their systems.

Anyway, on my system I can play CoH in 1600x1200 with max everything except physics which is on high. Thats including FSAA which is maxed at x4 ingame.

In CoV I have to drop the world detail from 200% to 100%, at these settings I get no slowdown in either game, no matter what is going on.

In the absence of a PhysX card (I'm never gonna buy that piece of crap!) the game will use a 2nd CPU core for Physics. As such with a single core barton you may want to drop the physics objects down and reduce the physics quality to medium or low.

Add a Gainward 7800GS+ (the 24 pipe one) and you'll be able to max out CoH. The AGP x19xx card will not hold a candle to it in this game, although the ATI card will beat the 7800GS+ in Oblivion, etc etc, CoH and CoV are *very* much an nVidia whitewash.

The vanilla 6800 you have is a 12x1x5 card at 325MHz with 600(1200)MHz RAM, while my card stock is 24x1x8 @ 550MHz, so I'd expect your performance to be around 30% of mine. I dont know what res or settings you run at, but I'm running at about the limit of my card, so you would need to run quite a bit lower settings to expect 100% smoothness.

You are correct that CoV lags more than CoH at the moment, this is because CoV is more recent and the maps make a much heavier use of drtailed textures and models, and shaders. CoH in Issue 8, on the test server right now and on the main servers soon, will get most of these graphical updates, meaning you may well see some lag on the hero side too.
October 27, 2006 4:04:04 PM

So I imagine if I get the 7950GT 512mb I should be in good shape for the game! I play a lot on Virtue and Freedom which are busy servers. You are right about the ATI cards. My system has a X800GTO and I have noticed issues.

My wife has the 6800 vanilla agp in her aging system so she will just have to suffer unless the 7600GT agp or the 7800GS drops in price, or I build her a new system and upgrade her to pic-e. But she can't have a better computer than me. :wink:

I wonder if a dual core cpu helps in Heroes. I head that it does help in Villians. Maybe with issue 8 they will also work out some bugs and improve the perfomance.
October 27, 2006 4:59:54 PM

lets try to keep the scope of this thread to the soon to be released ATI AGP contender.

I think the point of;

AMD wants this card to be released because it stops some people from upgrading their processors for a little while, because if they choose to change their board and cpu right now... chances are it will be to C2D... so if for the time being they hold onto their 754/939 systems with this videocard... it gives AMD time to roll out well-needed apropriotly-priced competition to the C2D. The last thing AMD needs is everyone who has lagged behind, upgrading to a PCI-E board and getting a taste of the current champ.

I believe, based on the above idea, that perhaps AMD did have a hand in this... or at least this does work towards AMDs advantage.

I run a 3700 @ FX-55 speeds... if i dropped some acid and came to the conclusion that i actually need a faster (not at all) processor (pains me to even say it) I would certainly go C2D. (just to repeat myself, GPUs need upgrading at the moment, NOT (perfectly adequit) CPUS!!!


my 7cents :p 
October 29, 2006 12:59:29 AM

Trinitront64, this is exactly my belief, well said! In fact I would be sorely tempted to go to Intel for Core2 Duo (as most enthusiasts are) despite being all AMD (and Nexgen/Cyrix!) since I first starting building PCs...

But I just hate to throw stuff away before upgrading a PC to its full potential :oops: 

So *maybe* a canny move by AMD? Or just coincidence. Whatever it is, I'm glad they did it. :D 
October 29, 2006 3:28:28 PM

Interesting theory, I hadn't thought of that. Makes sense from AMD's POV though.

I'd be tempted to upgrade from my AGP vanilla 6800, since I have a gig of RAM and A64 3000+ S754 with it, considering RAM costs so much atm. Unfortunately, I think my barebones system with a 200W PSU might struggle to handle such a powerful card :cry: 
a b U Graphics card
October 29, 2006 4:37:17 PM

Quote:

AMD wants this card to be released because it stops some people from upgrading their processors for a little while, because if they choose to change their board and cpu right now... chances are it will be to C2D... so if for the time being they hold onto their 754/939 systems with this videocard... it gives AMD time to roll out well-needed apropriotly-priced competition to the C2D. The last thing AMD needs is everyone who has lagged behind, upgrading to a PCI-E board and getting a taste of the current champ.


Nice theory except for a giant hole in it.
This isn't ATi AMD's idea, but the OEM board partners. They provide the reference design, but just like the GF7800GS it's not the IHVs that are pushing for AGP it's their board partners who start the initiative. At best AMD just let loose the final 'ok' after some time of rejecting it, but I agree with the second part of your next statement...

Quote:
I believe, based on the above idea, that perhaps AMD did have a hand in this... or at least this does work towards AMDs advantage.


And that it does, on two levels, they will likely release the last of the top AGP card with the winner (remember GF7800 GS bliss will still not be a reference design, but may keep the performance crown [but unlikely if the 1950P keeps it clock rates]) add to that the gravy of the potential of keeing people in their AMD rigs (including OC'ed XP3200+s) or even any AGP rig, having them hold off 'til a refresh is a benifit for them, but this initiative was a long time in coming.
November 4, 2006 1:25:00 AM

I don't intend on Upgrading to PCI X for some time. I built this great system that plays ALL my games just before PCIx really hit the shelves...

But now with Core 2 Duo it's a different story. But I still will wait at least a year before upgrading/building a new machine.

Now, it's not to say I won't get a AMD 64 x2 (when the price is right) down the short road.

And the same applies for a Good AGP Video Card.

I kind of had my heart set on the Gainward BLISS 7800GS+ AGP 512MB Silent (7900 G71 core chip) as I thought is it/was the fastest AGP card.

But now you guy's tell me the NEW ATI Radeon X1950 Pro 256MB GDDR3 VIVO TV-Out/Dual DVI (AGP) ... Will beat the GAINWARD!!!!

Tell me more :) 
!