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Better upragadability? CoreDuo or AM2? & Help on New PC

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October 22, 2006 4:25:03 AM

I am thinking of getting a new system in December. Currently I have:

AMD Socket 939 3000+
ASUS Nforce 4 SLI Motherboard
2X512MB Corsair 3200DDR C2 High Performance Ram
GeForce 660GT

Originally I just had intended to upgrade my processor to AMD 4600X2. Then maybe get another gig of Ram, and upgrade my videocard. Problem is AMD has phased out the socket 939's, which would stop me from upgrading.

Therefore I was considering getting a new system and I have heard alot of praises on the Core Duo. The thing is I wanna buy a mid high processor like the EM6400, then in 1.5 years uprgrade the processor again. I dont wanna keep buying a new motherboard every 1.5 years caused they phased out the whole chip. So which has better upgradability the AM2 or CoreDuo? I heard Intel is releasing the Quad next year.. will that need a new chipset?

Also if I go CoreDuo I will go the Socket 965P Chipset if I go AMD ill get Nforce 5 570 Ultra. I dont overclock and I dont use SLI. I also am thinking of getting 2GB of Ram (I wanna save money so I would wanna get Corsair Value Ram over high performance RAM). Does performance Ram give a big boost in performance?

Also whats the difference between DDR2-533, DDR2-666, & DDR2-800. I am only familliar with the old DDR400 which u chose coz it forms the base of the multiplier for AMD systems. So if you would get DDR333 you would loose out. How about for DDR2? How does it work with the base multiplier of the CoreDuo or AM2? Then which Ram should i get for the above system?
October 22, 2006 4:29:10 AM

Upgrade your S939 chip NOW if you are ever going to upgrade it.
Otherwise:
a. Get a C2D now, and upgrade to the Quad later. Get DDR2-533 non-OCing, DDR2-800+ if OCing.
b. Wait for C2Q
c. Wait for AMD's response to Core 2 and choose later.

btw, I'd recommend getting the s939 X2 or Opteron 165/175 if possible, they kick serious ass, and wouldn't cost much. Your system w/ new X2 should last the next year or so. Upgrade the graphics card if you choose this route, the 6600GT isn't particularly fast.
October 22, 2006 4:40:12 AM

Yea thanks for the help. If I still manage to find a 939 chip, i also intend to get 2GB Ram. So it might cost too much to get another 3200DDR C2 High Performance Ram.

I plan to play Battlefield 2042 in Ultra High Resolution. Ill get a 1950XT at the end of the year. I plan to purchase all of this in December, I dont have the time and money now.

As for the CoreDuo if I get the 533 Ram might that curb upgradabilibility for the future? I know somtimes they like to increased the Bus Speed.

What do you think of the 965P Chipset though? 975X cost like 1.5 times the price.
Related resources
October 22, 2006 5:00:27 AM

Quote:
it might cost too much to get 3200DDR C2 High Performance Ram
HA, DDR2 prices are through the roof, so there isn't a saving grace here for a new system.

Quote:
As for the CoreDuo if I get the 533 Ram might that curb upgradabilibility for the future?

I would not get DDR2-533... because a. I'm an overclocker and b. it's not much more expensive. Intel isn't FSB bandwidth limited, so I doubt we'll see 333MHz FSB speeds soon. It would cost motherboard makers more money to produce motherboards rated to run at such a speed.

Quote:
What do you think of the 965P Chipset though? 975X cost like 1.5 times the price.

The 975X is overrated. P965 is cheaper, cooler, and just as fast. It's built for Core2 Duo, whereas 975X was not (not that this matters).
The P965 chipset is a BEAST. On good boards, expect FSB speeds in excess of 500MHz (ie. 2000MHz QDR).
October 22, 2006 6:34:48 AM

Quote:
What do you think of the 965P Chipset though? 975X cost like 1.5 times the price.

The 975X is overrated. P965 is cheaper, cooler, and just as fast. It's built for Core2 Duo, whereas 975X was not (not that this matters).
The P965 chipset is a BEAST. On good boards, expect FSB speeds in excess of 500MHz (ie. 2000MHz QDR).[/quote]

Speaking from experience, are you. The 975x is faster than a 965 it's been bench marked everywhere. Would you notice the difference without benchmarking I doubt it in most cases. On loaded system boards they cost about the same.

Make sure you do your research on those value MB before you buy.
October 22, 2006 6:55:30 AM

In this case, I'm comparing a P5W DH to a P5B Deluxe. I see the P5B Deluxe Wifi listed for $224, and the P5W DH listed for $270 on NewEgg.
Quote:
The 975x is faster than a 965 it's been bench marked everywhere.

O RLY? MATHEMATICALLY DISPROVEN: pick any benchmark that the P5B wins. There are quite a few of them.
http://www.neoseeker.com/resourcelink.html?rid=128202

Using this review, the only differences are that the P5W DH has a better dual video card setup 8X 8X vs 16X 4X, and ECC memory. The P5WDH has an advantage of 2% 8O in only ONE practical benchmark. Does that justify $45? I think not. The P5B has a better southbridge anyway.

You'll be hard pressed to find a difference in typical use: dual graphics is not a mainstream option, and ECC memory is also another niche market.

The last advantage of the P965 is simple: it's cooler, it's built on the 90nm process, and the 975X is built on the 130nm process. This also means that it overclocks better.
October 22, 2006 7:05:06 AM

Quote:
DDR2 prices are through the roof


Actually I was comparing 1GB Corsair XMS DDR3200 which is the same price as 2GB Corsair Value Ram.

Anyway I think Core 2 Duo is the way to go. I calculated with the assumption of upgrading my PC every 2 years and I think it will work out cheaper to get a Core 2 Duo. Because 1.5 years from now ill have to buy 2GB of DDR2 again anyway.

Also I think ill get the 965P, 975X looks like almost 1.5 the price of its counterpart.

Out of curiosity though. What do you guys think of DDR2 800 Corsair Value Ram models? or should i go Kingston or Mushkin? I read an article somewhere that 2GB Value Ram models is better than 1GB Performance Ram. Hence my idea is to get 2GB RAM. What are your ideas?
October 22, 2006 7:10:52 AM

Quote:
What do you guys think of DDR2 800 Corsair Value Ram models?

You get an E6600, you'll be able to run it at 3.6GHz.

Don't know about different memory brands, but Corsair stuff rocks.

If you're getting 2GB DDR2-800, that's going to be fast enough for a nice overclock, though not an EXTREME (4GHz) overclock. If you wanted to do EXTREME overclocking, you'd be better off getting 1GB of DDR2-1000.
October 22, 2006 8:08:34 AM

If u consider upgradeability then u should go for AMD AM2 socket CPUs.

Somewhere in Q2 of 2007 AMD will release dual core K8L & a Quad Core K8L in Q3 and will b backward compatible with AM2. AMD claims the K8L to more than 40%faster than the current K8.(No benchmarks yet, so cant believe it)
AMD will release an AM2+ socket which will have a better version of Hyper Transport for the K8L.at the same time.
October 22, 2006 9:57:23 AM

Quote:
What do you think of the 965P Chipset though? 975X cost like 1.5 times the price.

The 975X is overrated. P965 is cheaper, cooler, and just as fast. It's built for Core2 Duo, whereas 975X was not (not that this matters).
The P965 chipset is a BEAST. On good boards, expect FSB speeds in excess of 500MHz (ie. 2000MHz QDR).

Speaking from experience, are you. The 975x is faster than a 965 it's been bench marked everywhere. Would you notice the difference without benchmarking I doubt it in most cases. On loaded system boards they cost about the same.

Make sure you do your research on those value MB before you buy.[/quote]

Find relevant thermal specification guides on Intel. You will find out that 975X consumes less power. :wink:
October 22, 2006 10:01:40 AM

Quote:
If u consider upgradeability then u should go for AMD AM2 socket CPUs.

Somewhere in Q2 of 2007 AMD will release dual core K8L & a Quad Core K8L in Q3 and will b backward compatible with AM2. AMD claims the K8L to more than 40%faster than the current K8.(No benchmarks yet, so cant believe it)
AMD will release an AM2+ socket which will have a better version of Hyper Transport for the K8L.at the same time.


Second for that.

Intel probably will give out VRM12 or higher when it sells 45nm CPUs.
October 22, 2006 12:19:12 PM

Quote:
AMD will release an AM2+ socket which will have a better version of Hyper Transport for the K8L


If that is so would that mean I have to get a new motherboard again. I plan to purchase my new rig this December. If I go AMD ill get a Nforce 570 motherboard.

and what do you mean by

Quote:
Intel probably will give out VRM12 or higher when it sells 45nm CPUs


For the intel will the core 2 quad and intels new processors work on the 975P chip?

Im abit scared on the AMD, coz last time I had a Barton on the Socket A, then 1.5 years later I had to change to socket 939 (thinking it will have a long future). I could buy 4600X2 when the price dropped. Now they phased it out and I have to get the AM2. I got my socket 939 last year in July.
October 22, 2006 2:26:16 PM

AM2 has HyperTransport 1.0.
AM2+ will have HyperTranport 3.0

AMD will release Dual Core K8L (Bull Dozer) in Q2 & a Quad Core K8L (Barcelona) in Q3 and will b backward compatible with AM2.
U don’t have to change the Motherboard cuz the AM2+ CPUs will work with AM2 socket.

Guys Will AM2 Socket CPUs work on AM2+?

If u r a gamer then I think u should wait can see wat happens in Q3 of 2007. And just upgrade the Graphic card now. Since no games r currently multithreaded they don’t utilize Dual cores..

If u want performance now then go for Core2 Duo &get a mobo that will support Core2 Quad.. Gud thing Intel doesn’t change Sockets that often, but I hate it when the Chipset doesn’t support their new processors.
October 22, 2006 4:59:39 PM

I don't CARE what Intel says, it's REALITY that I care about.
Besides, we all know that Intel lies about their CPU power consumption (ie. pre-Prescott, we'd get different power dissipation ratings for different speed grades, but now we get identical power dissipation across an entire range of products) now, how can we trust their chipset power consumption?
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=285...

EDIT: Added link to beginning of review. P965 does better This could be attributed to the more mature BIOSes on the P965 boards.
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=285...
October 23, 2006 4:36:15 AM

I guess Core 2 Duo is the way to go then. Hopefully intel doesnt change its chipset.

I got screwed over twice. I bought a Barton than Athlon 64 came out. Then I got 939 last July, thinking its future would be good. Then the bastards phased it out with AM2. Its like i have to buy a new processor and motherboard every 1.5 years. I wanna buy a motherboard that can last 3 years. That means I get the 6400 now than 1.5 years later I get the best processor for my motherboard. So it will last me another 1.5 years. Than 3 years later I have a new rig again.

PC's are seriously costly. Maybe I should go back to consoles. Then use a labtop for my work.
October 23, 2006 5:36:54 AM

Don't worry Intel will phase out S775 soon.

And evilr00t is correct Intel does lie about power consumption and other facts.
October 23, 2006 6:10:31 AM

Quote:
Don't worry Intel will phase out S775 soon.

Really, links please?

Quote:
And evilr00t is correct Intel does lie about power consumption and other facts.

I only complain that they don't have precise and accurate CPU power consumption numbers anymore, they used to report numbers to 3 sigfigs. Now they have the power consumption right to MAYBE one sig fig, since there's no freaking way a Celeron D at 3.33 is consuming the same amount of power as a 2.13 Celeron D. They're both rated at "73 W"... BS.

Intel's power consumption specs are roughly in the ballpark, but they aren't particularly accurate or precise. I wish they went back to their old ways of measuring CPU power consumption.
October 23, 2006 6:43:25 AM

They may or may not phase out S775 soon but they certainly have a history of changing sockets quite frequently. ( I was sort of joking )

Slot 1 -> S370 -> S423 -> S478 -> S479 -> S775 ( I may be forgetting some )

In all fairness both Intel and AMD have been changing sockets.

Regarding power consumption have a look at this:




90nm AMDs are beating a Core2 @ 65nm 8O
October 23, 2006 6:47:22 AM

Go after Core2. It is faster, cheaper and it overclocks much more than any K8. Core2 platform wastes less energy than K8 platform and it is a future proof. Core2 Duo mainboards are compatible with Core2 Quad.
October 23, 2006 6:53:55 AM

Quote:
Go after Core2. It is faster, cheaper and it overclocks much more than any K8. Core2 platform wastes less energy than K8 platform and it is a future proof. Core2 Duo mainboards are compatible with Core2 Quad.





AM2 is Quad Core and 65nm ready as well.

Come on cut it out!!!


Look at the graph, 90nm AMDs are beating a 65nm Core2 in power consumption!
October 23, 2006 8:38:27 AM

Quote:
I guess Core 2 Duo is the way to go then. Hopefully intel doesnt change its chipset.

I got screwed over twice. I bought a Barton than Athlon 64 came out. Then I got 939 last July, thinking its future would be good. Then the bastards phased it out with AM2. Its like i have to buy a new processor and motherboard every 1.5 years. I wanna buy a motherboard that can last 3 years. That means I get the 6400 now than 1.5 years later I get the best processor for my motherboard. So it will last me another 1.5 years. Than 3 years later I have a new rig again.

PC's are seriously costly. Maybe I should go back to consoles. Then use a labtop for my work.


Bearlake and 1333MHz Conroe are coming in 2007.
October 23, 2006 8:39:11 AM

Quote:
Don't worry Intel will phase out S775 soon.

Really, links please?

Quote:
And evilr00t is correct Intel does lie about power consumption and other facts.

I only complain that they don't have precise and accurate CPU power consumption numbers anymore, they used to report numbers to 3 sigfigs. Now they have the power consumption right to MAYBE one sig fig, since there's no freaking way a Celeron D at 3.33 is consuming the same amount of power as a 2.13 Celeron D. They're both rated at "73 W"... BS.

Intel's power consumption specs are roughly in the ballpark, but they aren't particularly accurate or precise. I wish they went back to their old ways of measuring CPU power consumption.

http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/Sockets-Nehalem...
October 23, 2006 8:40:24 AM

Quote:
Go after Core2. It is faster, cheaper and it overclocks much more than any K8. Core2 platform wastes less energy than K8 platform and it is a future proof. Core2 Duo mainboards are compatible with Core2 Quad.


I don't think that all P965 boards can support C2Q.
October 23, 2006 11:15:46 AM

Quote:
AM2 is Quad Core and 65nm ready as well.

Noob, AM2 is a socket. It has nothing with the CPU architecture, number of cores and production process.

Quote:
Come on cut it out!!!
Noob.


Quote:
Look at the graph, 90nm AMDs are beating a 65nm Core2 in power consumption!
Yes, 90nm K8 are wasting more energy than 65nm Core2, although the K8 is slower for everything.



Quote:
I don't think that all P965 boards can support C2Q.

Why not? C2Q are FSB1066
October 23, 2006 11:48:49 AM

Quote:
AM2 is Quad Core and 65nm ready as well.

Noob, AM2 is a socket. It has nothing with the CPU architecture, number of cores and production process.

Quote:
Come on cut it out!!!
Noob.


Quote:
Look at the graph, 90nm AMDs are beating a 65nm Core2 in power consumption!
Yes, 90nm K8 are wasting more energy than 65nm Core2, although the K8 is slower for everything.



Quote:
I don't think that all P965 boards can support C2Q.

Why not? C2Q are FSB1066




Alrighty then if you want to pay OPEC $300 a barrel go right ahead.

Your position seems indefensible.

Did you actually look at the graph?

AM2 supports Quad Core CPUs as well as 65nm CPUs, if you have any evidence to the contrary please present it, your statements appear to be completely baseless.
October 23, 2006 12:14:15 PM

Firstly, AMD has not yet phased out S939 and there appears to be a bountiful supply of S939 X2 chips on the hardware sites that I visit regularly. Thus the promise of upgrading your S939 system is still viable.

Secondly, DDR ram prices are still pretty stable. You can get 1GB matched pair Corsair (TWINXXMS3200) ram for a few dollars (pounds here!) more than the DDR2 equivalent.

Third and probably most important, your upgrade to a dual core system along with an extra gig of RAM will be a revalation. The difference is quite astounding in some situations. Never having to wait for applications to respond is such a joy!

The upgrade will provide a very capable machine that will easily see you through to next christmas at which time Vista will have been out in the wild for a year, Directx 10 will have brought a plethora of new powerful video cards and the choice of dual and quad core CPU's available will be mesmerising!

Spend the money you save on a Wii or something!
October 23, 2006 12:26:55 PM

Quote:
Firstly, AMD has not yet phased out S939 and there appears to be a bountiful supply of S939 X2 chips on the hardware sites that I visit regularly.


Where I am plan to purchase my new rig, that is overseas in Malaysia the X2 939's has been phased out.

Quote:
Secondly, DDR ram prices are still pretty stable. You can get 1GB matched pair Corsair (TWINXXMS3200) ram for a few dollars (pounds here!) more than the DDR2 equivalent.


If i get the extra 1GB of DDR Ram now, in Q2 2008 ill have to buy another 2GB of DDR2 all over again. In the long run, it will be less costly to get and new rig then to upgrade my old rig.

The only problem is whether to go Intel or AMD. I think after reading all the posts people are still not sure whether the future processors will continue tp support the current chipset. If that is the case than maybe I should go for whats better now which is the Core 2 Duo.
October 23, 2006 12:46:47 PM

Quote:
Firstly, AMD has not yet phased out S939 and there appears to be a bountiful supply of S939 X2 chips on the hardware sites that I visit regularly.


Where I am plan to purchase my new rig, that is overseas in Malaysia the X2 939's has been phased out.

Quote:
Secondly, DDR ram prices are still pretty stable. You can get 1GB matched pair Corsair (TWINXXMS3200) ram for a few dollars (pounds here!) more than the DDR2 equivalent.


If i get the extra 1GB of DDR Ram now, in Q2 2008 ill have to buy another 2GB of DDR2 all over again. In the long run, it will be less costly to get and new rig then to upgrade my old rig.

The only problem is whether to go Intel or AMD. I think after reading all the posts people are still not sure whether the future processors will continue tp support the current chipset. If that is the case than maybe I should go for whats better now which is the Core 2 Duo.



My advice... wait a couple of months to see how good the new Quad Core CPUs are and if 65nm AMDs are worth it.

Even if they are not that great prices will have dropped by then so your patience will be rewarded.

The thing about memory is that any kind of DDR2 you buy now will likely be obsolete in 6-12 months! DDR3 is going to be out relatively soon as well.

The other problem with memory is that prices may or may not drop depending on market conditions whereas CPUs will always get cheaper.
October 23, 2006 12:52:08 PM

AM2 will support all AM2+ CPus.
As AM2 and AM2+l supports DDR2. U dont have to worry about moderboard upgrages till DDR2 exists bcuz AMD will intoduce AM3 for DDR3.
AM2+ will b the last DDR2 mobo for AMD.
The problem with Intel CPUs is the Chipset. they might not support Intels new CPUs.

About the K8L - AMD would b a fool to release a CPU that is slower than Conroe.
October 23, 2006 1:52:22 PM

IMO the 3000+ is plenty capable! Just get a better video card and you'll be fine! Have you overclocked your 3000+ yet? If not, that should give you a good performance boost. I just hit 7018 in 3dmark05 with my setup and while not spectacular, it is still a VERY fast system (at least to me)

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=2275720

Also, IMO it would be waste to do a full system upgrade for you. Go ahead and get a new video card and then, IF and only if, you find your system still lacking, upgrade. Why do you need dual core? S939 has some great Dual Core prices! You already have 1GB of RAM, that should be fine for quite sometime paired with a new GPU.

I think this is silly, if you really want to blow your money when its not needed, go ahead
October 23, 2006 2:55:49 PM

Quote:
You already have 1GB of RAM, that should be fine for quite sometime paired with a new GPU.


Quote:
I think this is silly, if you really want to blow your money when its not needed, go ahead


I had the view that for future games in 2007, it will require 2GB of Ram to run smoothly at the highest resolution (some said Oblivion and Battlefield require that ammount of RAM). Are you saying that 1GB of Ram would be enough to last me till Q1 2008? I plan to run all my games at the max AA and AF at 1290X1024 Resolution.

Another thing is I multitask alot. Eg. I burn upload songs from CD to by harddisk while listening to iTunes and play a game. Or I watch a movie while burning a DVD at the side. I noticed it also takes time to open applications like word with my Antivirus on. I looked at the charts and there seems to be a major increase in performance from 64 3000+ to a Core Duo 6400.

Anyway this my situation, I am open to advice.
a b à CPUs
October 23, 2006 3:12:06 PM

Quote:
If u consider upgradeability then u should go for AMD AM2 socket CPUs.

Somewhere in Q2 of 2007 AMD will release dual core K8L & a Quad Core K8L in Q3 and will b backward compatible with AM2. AMD claims the K8L to more than 40%faster than the current K8.(No benchmarks yet, so cant believe it)
AMD will release an AM2+ socket which will have a better version of Hyper Transport for the K8L.at the same time.


How is an uncertain processor on an uncertain platform a better upgrade-ability then a proven processor on a proven platform?

That doesn't make sense. AM2 is a dead-end platform. By the time K8L is released AM2+ will be there sporting the HTT3.0 as well as all of the power savings features and hell even the HTT slot features which are not supported by AM2.

Odds are most AM2 users will buy a new motherboard since AM2 will probably end up seriously crippling K8L (from having nearly 1/3rd the bandwidth).

Also worth noting that 975x platforms support Core 2 Quad, P965 platforms also support Core 2 Quad but that is model dependant. Like the P5B doesn't support it but the P5B Deluxe does. Just an FYI.
a b à CPUs
October 23, 2006 3:17:10 PM

Quote:
AM2 will support all AM2+ CPus.
As AM2 and AM2+l supports DDR2. U dont have to worry about moderboard upgrages till DDR2 exists bcuz AMD will intoduce AM3 for DDR3.
AM2+ will b the last DDR2 mobo for AMD.
The problem with Intel CPUs is the Chipset. they might not support Intels new CPUs.

About the K8L - AMD would b a fool to release a CPU that is slower than Conroe.


You act as though they have a say in the matter? AMd does not decide whether or not K8L will be faster then Conroe. It's not as easy as saying "Hmm I think we'll make it 20% faster, you guys kewl with that? Ok... now what about them Yankees?".

It's much harder then that. Even if AMD's K8L ends up faster per clk, it won't really matter all that much due to Intel's ability to ramp up clock speed on the Conroe. I mean already Core 2 Duo's clock above 3GHz and beyond (4-5GHz). Imagine what Intel's 45nm die shrink will do?

Don't assume K8L will be faster. As such don't spend money and buy a platform based on an assumption/gamble. That's being just as stupid/naive as those who invested in Enron.

EDIT: Remember all the peeps telling others to get an AM2 processor so that once 4x4 hit the streets they could buy a second one and use them in pairs? Yeah.. look how that turned out eh? I tried to warn them, telling them BaronMatrix, 9inch, quaarx and others were full of it, but nope, they went ahead and bought AM2 CPU's, now we learn a whole new Socket is needed for 4x4... figures. First hint should have been that AM2 processors only have a single HTT Link when 2 or more are needed for SMP/4x4.
October 23, 2006 3:36:22 PM

Eh, just because they are moving to 45nm means little, relative to clock speed. No offense, but...

Remember Presler? Based on 65nm. Still had trouble with breaking that "4Ghz barrier" just likes it's 90nm brothers.

Now C2D may react better with a smaller process, but I doubt it.

~Ibrahim~
October 23, 2006 3:48:20 PM

Quote:
Also worth noting that 975x platforms support Core 2 Quad, P965 platforms also support Core 2 Quad but that is model dependant. Like the P5B doesn't support it but the P5B Deluxe does. Just an FYI.


Shit this is new info! If I was planning to go Core Duo I would have bought thet P5B coz its significantly cheaper. Anyway how do you know P5BDeluxe supports Quad and P5B doesnt? Is there a way to tell?

How about Gigabyte 965P DSQ-3? Does that support Quad or do I have to get Gigabyte 965P DSQ-9?

Maybe ill just try and upgrade my socket 939. I found a second hand 4600 X2 on Ebay which is at discounted price. Also what do people think about 1GB memory for games for 2007? Again as mentioned before, I plan to get a X1900XT to play at 1280X1024 res, and Max AA and AF (C&C3, Battlefield 2142, NWN2, Mark of Chaos, Company of Heroes). Is 1GB sufficient or do I need 2GB?

If 1GB is sufficient then ill just buy this 939 on Ebay and in Q4 2007 get a new processor.
October 23, 2006 3:51:24 PM

The upgradability of a C2 system is now in question since intel is demo'ing chips with CSI that are due to be put out in ~1 year. I would be quite surprised (and I suspect most would) if the new FSB setup would be backwards compatible. That's something AMD can claim since it is a speedstep more than a change. If you were to want to drop in the latest and greatest chip in a year or so from now, I don't think you could do it with Intel, but I think you can with AMD.

That raises the question as to which manufacturer actually comes up with the "latest and greatest" chip, but those numbers won't be known for 6 months at least.
October 23, 2006 3:54:30 PM

If you multitask alot, dual core will definately help out. AM2 mobos are cheap so that would be an option.

do you find your current system lacking though? I run the BF2 demo fine with 1GB of RAM. I'm sure 2GB would be nice, but like you, I don't think I would buy any ddr1. Of course, it was mentioned in a TG article that ddr3 was right around the corner.. idk. The choice is yours, but let me know if you decide to get rid of your current system, I would like to buy it from you.
October 23, 2006 4:03:05 PM

According to some sources AM3 CPUs will have DD2 and DDR3 memory controllers. Saying AM3 CPUs will work with AM2 socket.

If this is true then an AM2 board will have a life span of about 5 years!
Some1 Confirm this.

Totally confused! He should probably get Core2 Duo? But He might not b able to upgrage bcuz of the chipset!


And about the 4x4! AMD never said which socket this platform will use.
But AMD did say AM2+ CPUs will work with AM2 socket.

True that 45nm intel chip will rock, but will he b able to upgrade?
October 23, 2006 4:04:38 PM

Quote:
Why not? C2Q are FSB1066


C2Q requires a special power requirement.
October 23, 2006 4:09:54 PM

Quote:
Eh, just because they are moving to 45nm means little, relative to clock speed. No offense, but...

Remember Presler? Based on 65nm. Still had trouble with breaking that "4Ghz barrier" just likes it's 90nm brothers.

Now C2D may react better with a smaller process, but I doubt it.

~Ibrahim~

Core and Netburst are completly different architectures and by comparing them you can't make a conclusions about their same production process. The problem with Presler is not the process, but the architecture. The P-EE 965 breaks the 6GHz barrier easily, but it needs extreme cooling.
The problem with the Pentium D is the double clocked ALU. The generated heat depends on the wasted power, and here is a simple formula for the dynamic power wasted for switching the transistors P=F*V*V*C. So the EE 965 has parts working at 7.46GHz, which parts are the key for the heat isue of Netburst. Also, Presler has more transistors than Core2, which is also a reason for wasting more power than Core2.

Take in account that most of current Core2 CPUs are stable OCed at 50% higher freqfency and take in account the more energy efficient and faster 45nm process with High-K. IMO the 45nm Core2 Quad will be stable OCed at 5GHz, using some better air cooling or any water cooling.
October 23, 2006 4:12:12 PM

Ok its getting more confusing now. I guess a way to determine whether i need to get Core Duo 2 or just by the 939 I saw on ebay is to find an answer for this question.

Is 1GB sufficient for gaming or is 2GB needed? the thread is in this link:
http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?nam...

Also remember I am not into overclocking.
October 23, 2006 4:13:39 PM

Quote:
Why not? C2Q are FSB1066


C2Q requires a special power requirement.
Please explain, what do you mean.
C2Q requires less power than Pentium D, and Pentium D works with C2D mainboards.
October 23, 2006 4:42:32 PM

Quote:
Why not? C2Q are FSB1066


C2Q requires a special power requirement.
Please explain, what do you mean.
C2Q requires less power than Pentium D, and Pentium D works with C2D mainboards.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=4217
Quote:
The CPU is compatible with all second-generation Conroe-compatible Intel 975X motherboards, but not all "965" series motherboards.


http://www.hkepc.com/bbs/itnews.php?tid=656043
Quote:
Besides VRM (Voltage Regulator Module) 11.0, it also requires a set of GTLREF Voltage Dividers containing 124 Ohm Pull Up Resistor and a set of 210 Ohm Pull Down Resistor with 1 uF capacitor, which are used to connect pin G10 and F2 of the processor. As some of the P965 products are designed not following these rules, which is not supposed previously, it’s not all P965 products could give support to quad-core Kentsfield Processors.
October 23, 2006 4:58:10 PM

You got me on this :lol:  10x for the info.
What about the nVidia, ATI and VIA chipsets?
October 23, 2006 5:09:44 PM

Quote:
According to some sources AM3 CPUs will have DD2 and DDR3 memory controllers. Saying AM3 CPUs will work with AM2 socket.

If this is true then an AM2 board will have a life span of about 5 years!
Some1 Confirm this.

Totally confused! He should probably get Core2 Duo? But He might not b able to upgrage bcuz of the chipset!


And about the 4x4! AMD never said which socket this platform will use.
But AMD did say AM2+ CPUs will work with AM2 socket.

True that 45nm intel chip will rock, but will he b able to upgrade?


As I understand it:

1. You will be able to use an AM3 chip on an AM2 board.
2. You will not be able to upgrade to an AM3 board and still use an AM2 chip.
3. To use DDR3 you will need both the AM3 chip and board.
4. You may be able to use your old DDR2 on some AM3 chip/board systems but not in combination with DDR3.

Also, even though you can upgrade to AM3 on an AM2 board, it's a little early to say how much you will be limited by that. Financially, I'd plan on at least the possibility that you will want to upgrade both to make it worthwhile. I do like that they are at least making a real attempt to provide a modular upgrade path.
October 23, 2006 5:11:24 PM

Quote:
You got me on this :lol:  10x for the info.
What about the nVidia, ATI and VIA chipsets?


I think the requirement is the same.

About the power requirement, virtually all new motherboards should support Kentsfield.
a b à CPUs
October 23, 2006 5:16:06 PM

Quote:
Eh, just because they are moving to 45nm means little, relative to clock speed. No offense, but...

Remember Presler? Based on 65nm. Still had trouble with breaking that "4Ghz barrier" just likes it's 90nm brothers.

Now C2D may react better with a smaller process, but I doubt it.

~Ibrahim~


That was Netburst, what you need to understand is that Core 2 already can reach above 4GHz without the 45nm shrink. The 45nm shrink will just improve clock speed yields as well as cost less per processor. Thus allowing more Quad Core CPU's to be clocked around 3.83GHz and sold while maintaining a good yields thus lower prices.

You need to understand that 65nm already allows for 4GHz speeds to be reached. I'd wager that Intel would have higher yields on a 3.83GHz Core 2 Duo right now then AMD has on their FX-62. Seeing AS AMD have pretty much reached the limits of their 90nm while Intel's Core 2 is far from being clocked close to it's threshold.
October 23, 2006 5:28:10 PM

I still feel skeptical on breaking the 4Ghz barrier with ease with Quad-Core, but maybe I've been looking at Netburst too long. Thanks for the explaination!

~Ibrahim~
October 23, 2006 5:43:44 PM

Better upgrade ability???

Upgradability is limited no matter which way you go IMHO. I believe 24 to 30 months is about the max that it is cost effective.
October 23, 2006 7:07:46 PM

IMHO there has been no good reason to upgrade just the CPU of a system for quite some time. More cores /= faster computer in most cases. The advancements of CPU power has been dismal since the mid to late P4 erra. Also, the CPU is generally not a bottleneck for gaming, hasn't been for a long time, won't be until games start to *require* multiple cores.

If you check out the CPU benchmark scores for games here you'll notice that the trend for significant performance gains is between platform changes. That is: EX6800, E6700, E6600 and even the budget E6400 are all really close on performance. There are exceptions, but the overal trend is that the big differences in performance come from a new platform (new chipset, CPU socket, RAM type) with faster RAM. I recommend against upgrading just the CPU if you're looking for a performance boost. Moore's law has been dead for a long time. You'll be lucky to get a 50% performance increase every 18months and you won't get it by just swapping out the CPU. You need a whole new system to do it.

You might want to grab a s939 x2 now as that should cover any "omg I must have dual core" ideas for quite some time. But there is really no reason to upgrade CPU more frequently then once a year unless you just like to spend money. For CPU upgrade cycles longer than 1year you should at least seriously consider upgrading the mobo too.

C2D is the better deal right now. Don't short-change yourself now for the hope of a less inexpensive, yet small, upgrade later.
!