Second Take: Bioshock's DRM Problem

[bennyblanx]

Ben and Rob discuss the controversy surrounding the Securom DRM on the PC version of Bioshock.

Watch The Video: http://www.twitchguru.com/site/flash_videos/second_take_the_bioshock_drm_problem.html

What do you think about this issue? Should there be DRM at all? If yes, what is an appropriate level of control?

-Ben

 

[Hyperion2010]

Is the steam version any better or did 2k really **** up and include the securerom in addition to steam's vastly superior system?

 

[warezme]

Ben and Rob discuss the controversy surrounding the Securom DRM on the PC version of Bioshock.

Watch The Video: http://www.twitchguru.com/site/flash_videos/second_take_the_bioshock_drm_problem.html

What do you think about this issue? Should there be DRM at all? If yes, what is an appropriate level of control?

-Ben

People will just hack Bioshock because of this or in spite of this. I haven't seen a game yet that wasn't. Just look at Colin McCrae Dirt for example. Its hardware specs for great visual graphics are over the top extreme on the order of FSX. Part of the problem was the security was running in the background polling to the internet constantly. People found out and within days there was a cracked EXE posted ON THEIR FORUM, that bypassed the polling, No CD and improved performance. As much as some people hate hacking, cracking, etc. its not going away. DRM can be excessive to the point it hurts the paying customer the most and pushes others that wouldn't otherwise bother with cracks to seek out and find them.

 

[stemnin]

It's basically no different.

2K are coming out now with 5 installs on ONE PC, and 5 installs on different PCs, still sucks really. And they are coming out with an uninstall tool LOL.

Hopefully no other game i'm waiting for will have this.

I'm with rob on not pirating, I saw simpsons movie, rush hour 3, transformers, 300, and etc in the theatre, all were worth it (even though i'm a sucker for paying for the simpsons as homer says, we can get it for free on TV).

 

[Phrozt]

While I was listening to this, the same theme kept on coming up in my mind... licensing.

Essentially, DRM has turned entertainment software into business software by limiting the "licenses" available to the user. I think this is why I, and so many other people, have a problem with the concept.


I was watching another runthrough of this theme, and I kept asking myself why 2k didn't just go to a steam-based version. Include all of their hardware keys in steam's database so that users can register their copy w/steam and then steam will regulate their copies as well..

Gamer is happy, 2k is happy.

 

[impar]

Greetings!

Three things:
1- In the video its still two simultaneous installs. 2K already said they were going to bump it to five.
2- SecureROM is detected as a Rootkit by Rootkit Revealer.
3- I reserved the game after playing the demo, un-reserved it when read the only two installs, re-reserved the game after the news came of the five installs and definitely un-reserved the game after the Rootkit was found.

So, will play the demo once more and uninstall it from my system. Hopefully I dont have to reformat to get rid of the SecureROM Rootkit.

2K =

 

[stemnin]

So, will play the demo once more and uninstall it from my system. Hopefully I dont have to reformat to get rid of the SecureROM Rootkit.
2K =

There's a way to remove it, check somewhere in the other bioshock threads, I got the link or go to the 2k forums and do a search (i'm assuming it hasn't been stickied and is probably on page 10 because of all the complaints that are being posted.)

Yea, I put System Shock 2 right there in the middle, and I forgot some games, GWEN and ETQW are just the preorder things. I don't pirate games, and this DRM issue is really pissing me off.

PS I miss the days of big PC game boxes.

 

[TSIMonster]

I too am curious. Are the people who purchase the game through steam having the same issue?

 

[Flakes]

played the demo and loved it i was ready to go and buy the game, im now downloading it for free, i refuse to have anythng on my pc that uses DRM to make it secure.

ive never bought a game that uses DRM.

on the legal front if you install the game then upgrade your pc say new HDD and gfx and Processor, can you only play the game on a machine that has been upgraded less than 5 times?

if anyone doesnt believe me about buying games legally that dont use drm. i can post a pic of all of my games that i have bought legally, i just hate DRM and therefore wont fund it in anyway, and i dont see why anyone else has to have DRM on there PC, stand up for yourslf and say No to the asshats behind it.

 

[Christopher1]

There should be no DRM period on any software, game, etc. If the game, movie and music manufacturers would make things AFFORDABLE (meaning someone who is not superrich could buy them without any problems) then there would be no reason to pirate games.

Personally, I have never pirated a game at all, except for extremely old NES, SNES and N64 games that I cannot get anymore so I can play them on an emulator on my computer (I had bought all of them that I downloaded at one time).

DRM doesn't keep people from hacking games, it doesn't keep the big pirates from pirating those games, and SecuROM has some farking huge problem with it, to the point where it has binned some people's machines.
The only DRM that I find acceptable is a DRM scheme where the game is verified online that SOMEONE bought it, perhaps binding it to an IP address or street address, and then you never see the DRM again because it is only in play that one time.

 

[stemnin]

I too am curious. Are the people who purchase the game through steam having the same issue?

Yes, but there's something different, check out wikipedia's bioshock page and scroll down to sercurrom issues.

 

[impar]

Greetings!

Are the people who purchase the game through steam having the same issue?

Yep. On top of the Steam check they have to deal with the SecureROM crap.
Or that was how it worked 2 days ago. This fiasco has a new episode every hour...

 

[stemnin]

played the demo and loved it i was ready to go and buy the game, im now downloading it for free, i refuse to have anythng on my pc that uses DRM to make it secure.

ive never bought a game that uses DRM.

on the legal front if you install the game then upgrade your pc say new HDD and gfx and Processor, can you only play the game on a machine that has been upgraded less than 5 times?

if anyone doesnt believe me about buying games legally that dont use drm. i can post a pic of all of my games that i have bought legally, i just hate DRM and therefore wont fund it in anyway, and i dont see why anyone else has to have DRM on there PC, stand up for yourslf and say No to the asshats behind it.

Well, probably a quarter of those games I have in the pic have some sort of DRM, like starforce in c&c3, but my main issue is the installation limit, it's ridiculous, 5 installs on one pc, but you can install it on up to 5 pcs, that's sorta like 25 installations. I see 2k caving in soon, so I will probably buy Bioshock on the weekend and not open it.

 

[wicko]

Wouldn't it make a lot more sense if they did it by IP? Maybe 2 or 3 possible IP's and that's it? Most of us have a single connection, and few with 2 (like myself). That way you can, in a sense, add an IP to the list and you won't have to worry about uninstalls/installs. Then if your IP ever changes, and you run Bioshock, it could prompt you saying would you like to add this IP (and if there are too many, you could remove an IP). Makes more sense to me, anyway.

Err, where did you guys read it was 5 installs per PC? I sincerely doubt that, and if it were true, an uninstallation would add an possible installation.

At any rate, I will be cracking this game anyway. I prefer to not have the Disc in the drive (quieter). It is just frustrating that I went out of my way to buy the LE and get screwed like this.

 

[impar]

Greetings!

My IP is dynamic, not fixed...

 

[wicko]

Is there any other way to identify a location uniquely?

 

[theyarecomingforyou]

I'm sorry but the guy on the right is one of THE most irritating guys I have ever seen. I had to register just to post how much he annoys me but I had to say something. He was trying to get attention all the way during the beginning and then he went on about how he was "hurt, really hurt" and how we wanted to jump out a window. Get a life! The whole format is so amateur - when you have a format that is based upon people having personality it is preferable to pick people that you don't want to stab repeatedly. Does anyone actually like his style or does he irritate everyone?

The issue itself is perfectly relevant, though - I'm not complaining about the topic.

 

[jimbobhickville]

And I thought CD checks were annoying. I've actually worn out 2 CD drives by having to swap the CDs every time I fired up a different game, but this takes the cake.

DRM only blocks legitimate users from using the game. Quit wasting your resources. Pirates can and do break all DRM schemes, so it doesn't hinder them much.

I'm a bit torn on this issue. I loved the demo, and want Irrational to keep being funded to make more great games, but I can't morally support 2K's decision to add a rootkit-based DRM system to the game. I wish I'd known about these issues before I ordered the game.

I boycotted Ubisoft when they used Starforce on their games, but luckily they dropped it when the bad press came pouring in. If 2K doesn't release a patch that totally removes the DRM from the game, I will no longer purchase any games that they publish. Want my money? Don't treat me like a criminal. I should note that I don't download games, although I did have a friend send me a cracked copy of one game, so for that I feel bad. I do download no-cd cracks for any game that I don't play online 'cause it's hella annoying to swap CDs all the time.

I will add my Kudos to both id and Epic, who release patches that remove the CD checks from their games after they've been out for a reasonable amount of time. I wish every company did this. Well, I really wish they'd just let me play my game, that I bought, without treating me like a criminal, but at least they only treat me like a criminal for a little while.

 

[stemnin]

Also GPG (Supreme Commander), they removed cd checks with a patch.

 

[sweeper240]

DRM is worthless, any one who thinks that their attempts at media control will work are fools.

DRM will never work as intended. Thieves and Pirates are legitimized by your attempts at controlling our rights. When we buy a game, video, or music, we now own the right to play that game or play that music.

We have locks on our doors to protect our belongings, and we control the locks, just as we control our belongings. Unless you plan on paying for infiltrating our houses with your batsh1t DRM, keep it in your pants, and away from everyone else.

 

[kingssman]

Meanwhile The console version of Bioshock will only be allowed to play on a maximum of 2 consoles. You will have to purchase additional copies if you plan on playing the game on any other console that you own. This helps ensure that legitimate buyers are even more frustrated as they attempt to use a product that they bought and payed for to a point that they might as well skip the game all together.


DRM in the year 2020::: Game titles limit spectators to just you and 1 friend, come with fingerprint IDs and retinal scan to ensure that only your copy of the game can only be played by you and 1 person watching. Any more people participating will have to purchase additional licenses.

 

[ethaniel]

If they thought DRM would be useful to avoid BioShock from being "copied/distributed/torrented/emuled", well... bad move. Really bad move. Even Bill Gates said DRM is useless. Just remember: Piracy exists because "it is profitable". The only way to fight piracy is to stop it from being profitable. I just wonder how much this DRM thingie raised BioShock final price. Because without DRM, the game should be cheaper... right?

 

[warezme]

I'm sorry but the guy on the right is one of THE most irritating guys I have ever seen.
The issue itself is perfectly relevant, though - I'm not complaining about the topic.

Yes, extremely irritating, and now a drama queen.

 

[Zoron]

Is there any other way to identify a location uniquely?

MAC address.

 

[hesido]

I was going to buy bioshock, but now I won't. I live in Turkey, and tho piracy is rampant, I try my best to buy legally. I own quite a number of boxed items, and I own quite a number of games on my Steam account. I employ some sort of Nocd hack on all of my CD based games. I am going to buy orange box, and crysis whether my system can handle it or not, to support the developers.

DRM has always worked against legal users, and it will continue to do so. Just leave the legal users alone! Let them play they way they want. I will have to repeat: I will *NOT* buy bioshock, for this sole reason.

Now, xbox360 version of this game will sell *a lot*. And probably owing it to this DRM scheme, it will sell quite less than it can, on the PC version. And they will start screaming that PC gaming is dying, because of piracy. Ironic!