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Can ATi X1900xtx run crossfire with x1950 crossfire card?

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October 25, 2006 11:45:52 AM

Well I have Asus X1900xtx graphics card and looking to add another prized possesion to my PC but i was wondering if I could install a x1950 crossfire instead of X1900 crossfire card?
October 25, 2006 1:01:41 PM

If you ever get it to work let us know, ok???
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October 25, 2006 1:10:58 PM

Thats the thing i wanna know from anyone if this has been done before cause it is quite a bit of money to play guessing games with....
October 25, 2006 1:14:04 PM

Best I can do is recommend what kwalker already did.
October 25, 2006 1:26:36 PM

Theoreticaly it's possible,But I've never done it myself.Please let us know the outcome.Goodluck.

Dahak

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October 26, 2006 5:41:32 AM

Nope. In the very sleepy state that I'm in (I might have read wrong due to it), I understood that he tested an X1950XTX and got a new world record with an X1900XTX. He never ran them together though. Was hoping to see that happen though. Could be interresting to see the results.
October 27, 2006 11:01:16 AM

Mmm i was hoping the guys at toms hardware could possibly test this setup as they get samples on a regular basis and can afford to test it out without loosing a whole months salary if it doesnt work :p 
Well ill be keeping an eye on this thread but until i have a definate answer im gonna wait a bit.
October 27, 2006 11:48:14 AM

Quote:
Thats the thing i wanna know from anyone if this has been done before cause it is quite a bit of money to play guessing games with....


As far as I understand it.. it is not possible. I assume that it was much like trying to run two different cards in SLI (which I believe is becoming a possibility now?) I believe the problem with SLI is the driver couldn't compensate for a slower + faster card when slower card = frames 1,3,5,7 and the faster card was able to push out images 2,4,6,8 faster. *shrugs*

Although, I do believe that with the release of the X1950 they are redoing Crossfire a bit to make it easier, and more streamlined... kinda like SLI :) 

There should be an article about it on Anandtech.com
October 27, 2006 12:06:16 PM

Yeah, that would be the wise thing to do. I'll try very hard to look for some results this weekend.
October 27, 2006 12:13:09 PM

Correct, it is impossible. x1950 cards use DDR4, x1900 cards use DDR3. It's not like a pipeline number/GPU clock/memory speed issue issue in which one card is able to disable pipelines or cripple the clock speeds in order to work with the other. The chipsets are the same but it simply won't work. You need an x1950 crossfire master card to work with an x1950 slave card. For now just one x1950 should do you fine, power-wise. Wait for the price of the crossfire card to drop and get it later, when it'll cost you less but still give you a nice boost. You may also have other options by then as DX10 cards will be arriving in e-stores and you know how ATi and nVidia like to keep chucking out rehashes of old cards.

Ciao 4 niao
October 27, 2006 12:26:34 PM

Quote:
Correct, it is impossible. x1950 cards use DDR4, x1900 cards use DDR3. It's not like a pipeline number/GPU clock/memory speed issue issue in which one card is able to disable pipelines or cripple the clock speeds in order to work with the other. The chipsets are the same but it simply won't work. You need an x1950 crossfire master card to work with an x1950 slave card. For now just one x1950 should do you fine, power-wise. Wait for the price of the crossfire card to drop and get it later, when it'll cost you less but still give you a nice boost. You may also have other options by then as DX10 cards will be arriving in e-stores and you know how ATi and nVidia like to keep chucking out rehashes of old cards.

Ciao 4 niao


I wouldn't say that is completel true

"The New Face of CrossFire

There haven't been any changes to the way CrossFire works from an internal technical standpoint, but a handful of changes have totally revolutionized the way end users see CrossFire. NVIDIA's SLI approach has always been fundamentally better from an end user standpoint. Internal connectors are cleaner and easier to use than ATI's external dongle, and the ability to use any X1950 Pro in combination with any other X1950 Pro is absolutely more desirable than the dedicated master card approach. ATI has finally done it right and followed in NVIDIA's footsteps.

At the heart of the changes to CrossFire is the movement of ATI's compositing engine from the card onto the GPU itself. This does add cost to every GPU and thus every graphics card, but the added benefits far out weigh any negatives. In early versions of CrossFire, digital pixel information was sent between cards using TMDS transmitters (the same transmitters used to send display information over DVI and HDMI). While this format is fine for displays, it isn't as well suited for chip to chip communication.

With the compositing engine built into every GPU, ATI is now able to send pixel data through an over-the-top NVIDIA style bridge directly to another GPU. This also eliminates the necessity of a TMDS link for use in transmitting pixel data. ATI hasn't talked about what type of communication protocol is used between the compositing engines on each chip, but we suspect that it is a little lower speed than NVIDIA's 1GHz connection. ATI is using a higher bit-width connection split into 2 12-bit parallel channels. At full capacity, ATI states that these connections can support resolutions of up to 2560x2048, but that communication doesn't happen any faster than the old style TMDS method.

ATI did make it clear that even though this incarnation of CrossFire supports a higher resolution than we are currently able to test, it won't necessarily run well. Of course, we'd much rather see a situation where we aren't limited by some technical aspect of the hardware. The first incarnation of CrossFire was quite disappointing due to its low maximum resolution of 1600x1200.

One of the oddities of this multi-GPU implementation is the splitting up of the connector that links the GPUs. Both are required for the driver to enable CrossFire, but only one is technically necessary. As bridges will be bundled with graphics cards, everyone who purchases 2 X1950 Pro cards will have two bridges. This eliminates the need for end users to buy bridges separately or rely on them shipping with their multi-GPU motherboard. When pressed further about why two connectors were used, ATI asked us to envision a system with 3 or 4 graphics cards installed. With 2 channels, cards can be easily chained together. This does offer ATI a little more flexibility than NVIDIA in scaling multi-GPU configurations, but it is also a little more cumbersome and offers more small parts to lose. Overall, though, the 2 channel configuration is a good thing.

Now that we have a chip built specifically for the $200 price point with a robust, full featured, CrossFire implementation, we are very interested in seeing what type of performance ATI is offering."
-anandtech
October 27, 2006 12:35:49 PM

Quote:
Well I have Asus X1900xtx graphics card and looking to add another prized possesion to my PC but i was wondering if I could install a x1950 crossfire instead of X1900 crossfire card?


I wouldn´t even think about it. I doubt that you will gain performance with a 1900XTX and a 1950 Pro in crossfire. The Xtx would be cut back to 1950 Pro level and crossfire adds 50% performance (roughly). It´s not worth it. If you really want crossfire, get another 1900xtx. I´d wait though, the dx10 cards are on the horizon and buying one of those might be a better option.
October 27, 2006 12:38:10 PM

Quote:
Well I have Asus X1900xtx graphics card and looking to add another prized possesion to my PC but i was wondering if I could install a x1950 crossfire instead of X1900 crossfire card?


I wouldn´t even think about it. I doubt that you will gain performance with a 1900XTX and a 1950 Pro in crossfire. The Xtx would be cut back to 1950 Pro level and crossfire adds 50% performance (roughly). It´s not worth it. If you really want crossfire, get another 1900xtx. I´d wait though, the dx10 cards are on the horizon and buying one of those might be a better option.

It would have to be possible first...
October 27, 2006 1:08:59 PM

Im glad i asked this question cause it looks like i would have wasted a couple bags of gold :p 
Thanx for all the replies.
Has anyone got to links to some inside scoops on the new dx 10 cards?
Also I am very interrested in how the Ati Amd merger might influence their graphics cards.
That would also make for a nice read if someone has some info on that, or even just an opinion of how you think it would affect graphics cards in the future from ATi as im sure with the two companies combined knowledge now , we are in for a drastic change...
Or maybe not. What do u guys think?
October 27, 2006 1:24:12 PM

What I've heard of recently is ATI's plan to produce CPU + GPU on a single peice of silicon.

This was talked about long before the ATI + AMD merger but nothing ever came about. I've also heard good things about being able to a 3rd card for physics... let me give an example...

Let's say I own a single X1900XTX, then I want 2 X1950 Pro's in Crossfire...

I put the 2 cards in Crossfire
then add the X1900XTX with a ATI based chipset motherboard and have it run only for physics processing... kind of a good idea I think, better than having a card you shelled out 400 bucks for collecting dust eh?
October 27, 2006 1:58:22 PM

In theory it is possible to run a X1950 Mastercard (not Pro) with a X1900 XTX. They are both r580 core and should work fine together. CF allows like cards with non like speeds to run together at full speed. (Not pipelines as stated earlier in the thread.) So both cards should be even be able to run at full speed too. (Like when pairing a X1900 Master with a X1900 XTX)

With that being said did ATI right the ablity to run a X1950 Master with a X1900 Slave into the driver? .... who knows.
October 27, 2006 2:06:25 PM

What I gathered from that article is that ATI is doing away with the Master/slave cards in Crossfire and now that any brand of X1950 Pro can be used with any other brand of X1950Pro i.e. MSI + Asus
October 27, 2006 2:09:14 PM

Quote:
What I gathered from that article is that ATI is doing away with the Master/slave cards in Crossfire and now that any brand of X1950 Pro can be used with any other brand of X1950Pro i.e. MSI + Asus


I can confirm that is true.
October 27, 2006 2:27:53 PM

Quote:
What I gathered from that article is that ATI is doing away with the Master/slave cards in Crossfire and now that any brand of X1950 Pro can be used with any other brand of X1950Pro i.e. MSI + Asus


I can confirm that is true.

What bugs me is that I bought the 1900XT for $500 (a bargain at the time) and now because of scarcity the 1900 Crossfire is still over $500, whereas the 1900XT and XTX can be had for less than $300. And I can't use the 1950 Pro which is much cheaper than the 1900 Crossfire. If I had bought a crossfire Master to begin with, then adding a slave would have been much cheaper later on.
October 27, 2006 2:34:36 PM

Quote:
[
What bugs me is that I bought the 1900XT for $500 (a bargain at the time) and now because of scarcity the 1900 Crossfire is still over $500, whereas the 1900XT and XTX can be had for less than $300. And I can't use the 1950 Pro which is much cheaper than the 1900 Crossfire. If I had bought a crossfire Master to begin with, then adding a slave would have been much cheaper later on.


Your complaint is my biggest complaint about any duel card solution. It was sold to many as a way to upgrade to higher performance. The reality is that if you don't do it at the start you have a very short window to upgrade. Try to find a 7800 GTX or GT now. Go back to the 6800 series or X850 series. It gets real tough.

To find a X1900 Master I might try E-bay for a cheap one. As people setup they will become more available.

If it was me I would consider waiting until the new NV and ATI DX10 cards. You will be able to buy a single card that will be as fast as or faster than all current 2 card solutions.
a b U Graphics card
October 27, 2006 2:56:58 PM

Quote:
What I gathered from that article is that ATI is doing away with the Master/slave cards in Crossfire and now that any brand of X1950 Pro can be used with any other brand of X1950Pro i.e. MSI + Asus


The reason that that's the case is because they have the dual internal connector on every card;



So it's not BUS Xfire like the GTs and GTOs but still hardware support, but now each card has that ability.

Also it has nothing really to do with the OP's question, but it's the right way to go with hardware connected Xfire IMO.

As for the OP's question, the X1950CF cards do work with the X1900 cards in Xfire, check out DH's review;

http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/x1900x1950/index.ht...

Still a little quirky overall as is the entire Xfire/SLi solution.

Seriously guys stop giving people advice based on your guesses, you cost people time and money and just look st00pid!

The first thing to remember is that Xfire doesn't have the same limitations as SLi, unbalanced cards is built into the setup, what you can't do however is match completely different chips designs (like the X1800 with an X1900 or X1600 card). Dont' think speeds or pipes (both can be off) think architecture.

And whomever said GDDR4 mattered needs to rethink that statement, it's abot as wise as saying you can't put a sapphire card in your rig because it's blue not red. :roll:

To the OP, I'm not a fan of XFire or SLi, and would suggest waiting for newer cards to come out, but if you got money to burn (which later comments seem to say you don't) then Xfire will show a boost, just not a huge one.

EDITed to clarify the CF+X1900 portion, not talking about using the X1950P for Xfire with X1900. Although technically it could still work since it's a question of disabled functional units (similar to pipelines) not a completely different implementation the way the X1800 and X1900 are.
October 27, 2006 3:26:22 PM

Quote:

The reason that that's the case is because they have the dual internal connector on every card;



So it's not BUS Xfire like the GTs and GTOs but still hardware support, but now each card has that ability.

Also it has nothing really to do with the OP's question, but it's the right way to go with hardware connected Xfire IMO.

As for the OP's question, the X1950 cards do work with the X1900 cards in Xfire, check out DH's review;

http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/x1900x1950/index.ht...

Still a little quirky overall as is the entire Xfire/SLi solution.

Seriously guys stop giving people advice based on your guesses, you cost people time and money and just look st00pid!

The first thing to remember is that Xfire doesn't have the same limitations as SLi, unbalanced cards is built into the setup, what you can't do however is match completely different chips designs (like the X1800 with an X1900 or X1600 card). Dont' think speeds or pipes (both can be off) think architecture.

And whomever said GDDR4 mattered needs to rethink that statement, it's abot as wise as saying you can't put a sapphire card in your rig because it's blue not red. :roll:

To the OP, I'm not a fan of XFire or SLi, and would suggest waiting for newer cards to come out, but if you got money to burn (which later comments seem to say you don't) then Xfire will show a boost, just not a huge one.

First you say they can go crossfire and then you say different chip designs can´t. The 1950 Pro is a RV 570 while the 1900XTX is a RV580. So the OPs proposal shouldn´t work, right?
a b U Graphics card
October 27, 2006 4:27:20 PM

Quote:
First you say they can go crossfire and then you say different chip designs can´t. The 1950 Pro is a RV 570 while the 1900XTX is a RV580. So the OPs proposal shouldn´t work, right?


He's not Asking about X1900XTX + X1950Pro , but an X1900XTX + X1950 CROSSFIRE EDITION, as . Re-read first post (just use the scroll bar), or you could just look at the title of every post.

Quote:
The 1950 Pro is a RV 570 while the 1900XTX is a RV580.


NO, the X1950Pro is an RV570, and the X1900XTX is an R580, mr Nitpicker. BTW, they still have the same underlying architcture just different amounts of functional units (like making an X850XT and X850 Pro).

If you would like me to refine my statement to help those of you who can't figure out the configuration of the chips that's fine, but it's up to each user to do their own research, and as to the question at hand it is possible, and should work, albeit just a buggy and funky as other Xfire and SLi.

BTW, why quote the whole thing including picture for your one sentence? :roll:
October 27, 2006 7:56:59 PM

Quote:
[
What bugs me is that I bought the 1900XT for $500 (a bargain at the time) and now because of scarcity the 1900 Crossfire is still over $500, .


Your complaint is my biggest complaint about any duel card solution. It was sold to many as a way to upgrade to higher performance. The reality is that if you don't do it at the start you have a very short window to upgrade. Try to find a 7800 GTX or GT now. Go back to the 6800 series or X850 series. It gets real tough.

To find a X1900 Master I might try E-bay for a cheap one. As people setup they will become more available.

If it was me I would consider waiting until the new NV and ATI DX10 cards. You will be able to buy a single card that will be as fast as or faster than all current 2 card solutions.

Yah, I have the (legal) Vista RC2, and will probably keep it going and buy the release Vista, so DX10 is in the Cards (forgive the pun). And yes I'll try Ebay, thanks for the suggestion.
October 27, 2006 11:52:54 PM

I was wondering when you would respond to this post. :wink:
I was hoping you would clarify this for the OP and others.
Your input is greatly appreciated and informative.
Thanks :) 
a b U Graphics card
October 28, 2006 12:19:45 AM

Yeah it's been a busy week at work, didn't see this until later.
I help when I can. 8)
a b U Graphics card
October 28, 2006 12:59:50 AM

Funny thing, I used your link in this thread to answer a question in another thread, and voila in the How it Wors section they detail this very situation;

http://ati.amd.com/technology/crossfire/howitworks.html






D'oh!

I didn't even bother to look until talking about GTO in other thread.

So hey, thank YOU for making MY research easier!
BTW, Nice shades. 8)
October 28, 2006 1:08:40 AM

8)
It’s amazing what you’ll turn up without trying.
I ran across the same section on my link but enjoyed the replies to much to repost.
Underneath I was waiting for you to show up and you did. :lol: 
Btw I never take off the shades.
It would be UN cool
October 30, 2006 4:46:29 AM

Quote:
Funny thing, I used your link in this thread to answer a question in another thread, and voila in the How it Wors section they detail this very situation;

http://ati.amd.com/technology/crossfire/howitworks.html






D'oh!

I didn't even bother to look until talking about GTO in other thread.

So hey, thank YOU for making MY research easier!
BTW, Nice shades. 8)



Thanx for asll the advice everyone especially TheGreatGrapeApe as your answers were exactly what i was looking for. Just a bit too late :( 
I already opted to go for X1900 crossfire and already bought it.
Ariving today with my asus ageia physics card aswell.
None the less thanx for advice and info . Wish i read this earlier.
(I have 3 PCI-E slots on my motherboard . )
October 31, 2006 9:38:33 AM

Okay got crossfire setup...
I cant run extended desktop anymore though.
(Where you actually stretch the taskbar across both screens.)
I can run normal dual desktop though still.
Anyone know of solution or will i have to wait for possible next catalyst version?
a b U Graphics card
October 31, 2006 2:54:37 PM

I would suggest two things;

A) Put in a trouble ticket with ATi (don't expect quick reply though)

B) Check in the Rage3D forum, where there's more people with Crossfire setups, and all the beta testers hang out, as well as Catalyst Maker, Terry Makedon, drops in from time to time.

Specific things like that need specific trouble shooting.
October 31, 2006 3:24:26 PM

Quote:
Well I have Asus X1900xtx graphics card and looking to add another prized possesion to my PC but i was wondering if I could install a x1950 crossfire instead of X1900 crossfire card?



If crossfire is anything like SLI, then NO. It says IDENTICAL cards and that means they even need the same Firmware version to be identical.

Just because a card is the same series, that doesn't qualify as IDENTICAL.

hball
October 31, 2006 3:50:44 PM

Quote:
Well I have Asus X1900xtx graphics card and looking to add another prized possesion to my PC but i was wondering if I could install a x1950 crossfire instead of X1900 crossfire card?



If crossfire is anything like SLI, then NO. It says IDENTICAL cards and that means they even need the same Firmware version to be identical.

Just because a card is the same series, that doesn't qualify as IDENTICAL.

hball

It's been established in this thread already that a 1950 Crossfire card (not Pro) WILL work with a 1900XT slave. Catch up. They both need to be R580 and the same basic chipset. Speeds and physical layout can be different, thus they do not need to be "identical."
October 31, 2006 7:48:55 PM

Guys! Your sleepless nights are over. Here's the answer to all your questions in a three simple letter......"YES". I went out and got myself one of the these baby on monday (actually got it on order). Got it home and with my fingers crossed plug the two babies in. The next thing I heard was a post. Man, you never guess how relief I was, were jumping for joy. But I wasn't done there just yet. I had to wait and see if I am able to boot into windows and select crossfire mode. So I let it load up...looking good and it boots into windows. On the bottom right hand corner I can see new hardware found. Evident the two cards can run together without any problem. The next question is will it run in crossfire mode. I went to the ati website to see if they have any new drivers out. The official 6.9 drivers does not support x1950. So i figured there must be some beta drivers to run these babies. They did and I couldn't wait to download it. Btw the cd that came in the package already has that same driver on the ati website, which I only realised it after I checked the cd. The driver installed smoothly without any hickups. Next I load up CCC and was able to see crossfire. At that very instant I was really jumping for joy. I thought to myself that's it my system was complete. But I was wrong after I select crossfire the screen hanged then blink and blink again and by the 3rd blink the crossfire wasnt selected anymore. I was holding my head thinking whats going on. This can't be right. I figured out I didnt uninstall the older driver and maybe that new driver was comflicting with it. So I uninstall driver and start over again. There you have it guys, after installing the new beta driver I was able to enable crossfire. I attached screenshot of my desktop setting of the two card plus ccc with crossfire enabled.
One other thing I want to point out. I benched it with 3D01 and didnt get much performance gain and thats without overclocking so don't expect a boost in performance if you are running older cpu like i am. But I could be wrong. I am not a hardcore overclocker. . Alright, I said enough better stop here and I hope this has come useful for you guys. Now start ordering one of these babies if you havent done so and show us how far these babies can go. :D 
October 31, 2006 7:56:14 PM

sorry heres the screenshot

October 31, 2006 8:03:25 PM

Quote:
sorry heres the screenshot

November 1, 2006 3:43:42 AM

Quote:
Well I have Asus X1900xtx graphics card and looking to add another prized possesion to my PC but i was wondering if I could install a x1950 crossfire instead of X1900 crossfire card?


There no need for me get technical about it as everything AACDIRECT said was spot on. And now I have proven for you guys. A capture of my desktop showing those two shot of desktop setting and CCC should be more than sufficient. Theres really no need for a innard shot of my system although I could do that just to prove it to u BustedSony.

Even Kinc here http://forums.vr-zone.com/showthread.php?t=92751 have showed you it is possible using those two cards.

Also, I believe there is a compatibility chart displaying how its works issued by the guy themselves, ATI.
November 1, 2006 4:12:50 AM

:D 
Great now give us a 3d mark 2005 and 2006 score :wink:
November 1, 2006 4:59:19 AM

If history repeats itself, ONE high-end next gen card will be FASTER than any current SLI or CF. I think this is why people will be willing to spend $600 for a new card that sucks up 300 watts.
Keep a close eye on the next gen (high)mid-range cards. I expect they will do much better than the X1900 XTX for example.
About every year is a minor upgrage, this is about a 50% gain. Every 2-3 years is a major upgrade (Such as the GeForce 5800 to 6800 GT) and performance is doubled.
Since the ATI X000 series got a major upgrade to 1X000, I don't expect another for a while. Nvidia got one back in 2004, so it may happen again next month! Keep fingers crossed.

When I mean Next-Gen, I mean a LOT faster with current games as well has having new functionality not available in current games.
November 9, 2006 4:45:19 PM

I can almost guarantee you that you will be able to offload any older card to a crossfire PPU when the time comes. They already have the idea/foundation behind it. However, only the BADAXE motherboard has enough slots for the damn thing.. and while I have one.. im not dropping a grand on cards!

http://ati.amd.com/technology/crossfire/physics/index.h...

So either way, I would assume ATi wont let its card become obsolete as fast as Nvidia will.
!