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xp won't install as dual os on win98se system

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December 9, 2004 7:36:05 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

Attempting to install xp on win98 as clean install (ie dual boot)

Disconnected all periphs (bare notebook)

Using Partition Magic, cleared unpartitioned space (4.5Gig) at end of
HDD

Ran full scandisk - full surface test.

Setup

Chose NTFS in unpartitioned space - would have preferred fat32 but not
given the option by setup

All going normally until middle of 'registering components' - '13
minutes to go - and it stuck - HDD making 'dit dah dit dah dah' over
and over again, for about ten minutes before I had to turn off the
power.

The above describes my third attempt, each with the same result,
although the first two were attempts to install on a fat32 partition
at the end of my HDD.

I have not yet upgraded drivers for my Tosh Sat Pro 6000 although I
know there are xp-compatible drivers available on the Tosh web site.
I didn't start out by installing these as I wasn't clear whether they
would also work with win98 - all part of this process of not
committing to XP until I know how it behaves.

Has anyone any helpful ideas?
Anonymous
December 9, 2004 7:36:06 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

Xp has to be installed first. Regardless of whether it's on another
partition. You have to have XP first and then isntall win98. I has to do wiht
the Master File Table. XP must be the boss or it won't work.
Anonymous
December 9, 2004 7:36:06 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

Hi, John.

MVP Rick Rogers and I have already responded to your post from yesterday on
this same subject. Have you seen those yet?

> Setup

I'm with you down to here, I think. How are you running WinXP Setup? By
booting from the WinXP CD-ROM?

> Chose NTFS in unpartitioned space - would have preferred fat32 but not
> given the option by setup

You haven't told us how many partitions you have, so I'll assume you
previously had just one primary partition, Drive C:, formatted FAT32. Did
WinXP Setup create a new primary partition here? Or did PM create it?
Unless the partition is larger than 32 GB, WinXP Setup should have offered
FAT32 as an option.

Let's review the Microsoft dual-boot setup, as it has been since at least
WinNT4. The boot process always starts in the Root of the "system
partition" (the active partition on the first physical HDD), typically Drive
C:\, where it must find the "system files" for both WinXP and Win9x/ME,
including C:\boot.ini, which points to the location of each Windows
installation. Each Windows installation has its own boot folder (\Windows
by default, except for WinNT4/2K, which use \WinNT) located in its own boot
volume, which can be any primary partition or logical drive in the computer.
In your computer, you probably have Win98 in C:\Windows and will be
installing WinXP into D:\Windows. But the system files for both Win98
(io.sys and msdos.sys) and WinXP (NTLDR, NTDETECT.COM and Boot.ini) must be
in C:\, the root of the system partition.

When WinXP Setup runs, if it detects Win98 already installed, it will first
save the DOS-style boot sector as C:\bootsect.dos, then it will overwrite
the boot sector on C: with the NT version. Then it will install WinXP
wherever you choose and create C:\boot.ini with pointers to its boot folder
and to C:\, where Win98's io.sys and msdos.sys will remain.

> I have not yet upgraded drivers for my Tosh Sat Pro 6000 although I
> know there are xp-compatible drivers available on the Tosh web site.
> I didn't start out by installing these as I wasn't clear whether they
> would also work with win98 - all part of this process of not
> committing to XP until I know how it behaves.

I know nothing of Toshibas or of notebooks. Are you sure this hardware is
hefty enough for WinXP? Many computers that came with Win98 pre-installed
do not have the "horsepower" to run WinXP. Have you looked for information
about WinXP and your specific model at the Toshiba website? My
understanding is that many notebooks and other OEM computers have hidden
partitions on their hard drives, holding essential files for those
computers; does your Toshiba have such a partition, and has Partition Magic
possibly damaged that partition?

If you install WinXP drivers in WinXP, Win98 won't even know they are there.
When the computer boots into Win98, it will ignore the WinXP boot volume,
where all those WinXP drivers will be; if that is an NTFS volume, Win98
won't even see the volume. WinXP handles hardware so fundamentally
different from Win98 that any drivers that work with one version almost
certainly will not work with the other. The WinXP CD-ROM has drivers for
almost all current hardware.

> The above describes my third attempt, each with the same result,
> although the first two were attempts to install on a fat32 partition
> at the end of my HDD.

Win98 can't even SEE an NTFS volume, but WinXP mixes and matches FAT32 and
NTFS as easily as it reads from a floppy (using FAT12) or a CD (using CDFS).

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
rc@corridor.net
Microsoft Windows MVP

"John" <nospam@plusnet.com> wrote in message
news:a0vgr0detsrtnfeth71pdkbdescod1m10k@4ax.com...
> Attempting to install xp on win98 as clean install (ie dual boot)
>
> Disconnected all periphs (bare notebook)
>
> Using Partition Magic, cleared unpartitioned space (4.5Gig) at end of
> HDD
>
> Ran full scandisk - full surface test.
>
> Setup
>
> Chose NTFS in unpartitioned space - would have preferred fat32 but not
> given the option by setup
>
> All going normally until middle of 'registering components' - '13
> minutes to go - and it stuck - HDD making 'dit dah dit dah dah' over
> and over again, for about ten minutes before I had to turn off the
> power.
>
> The above describes my third attempt, each with the same result,
> although the first two were attempts to install on a fat32 partition
> at the end of my HDD.
>
> I have not yet upgraded drivers for my Tosh Sat Pro 6000 although I
> know there are xp-compatible drivers available on the Tosh web site.
> I didn't start out by installing these as I wasn't clear whether they
> would also work with win98 - all part of this process of not
> committing to XP until I know how it behaves.
>
> Has anyone any helpful ideas?
Related resources
Anonymous
December 9, 2004 7:36:07 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

Hi, P.

Absolutely wrong!

The golden rule is to always install the NEWEST Windows version LAST. WinXP
Setup knows what to do with Win98, but Win98 never heard of WinXP. And
Win98 knows nothing of dual-booting. Even when it is in a dual-boot
computer, it doesn't know that any other operating system is installed. And
each volume formatted as NTFS has an MFT - which is not the boss of
anything. It does roughly the same job as the File Allocation Table in FAT
file systems. It is a part of the FILE system, not the OPERATING system.

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
rc@corridor.net
Microsoft Windows MVP

"The Unknown P" <( mikisiw@msn.com )> wrote in message
news:F8F9D402-6557-4D42-91F8-4C7F5AB0D7E5@microsoft.com...
> Xp has to be installed first. Regardless of whether it's on another
> partition. You have to have XP first and then isntall win98. I has to do
> wiht
> the Master File Table. XP must be the boss or it won't work.
December 9, 2004 7:36:07 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

In article <F8F9D402-6557-4D42-91F8-4C7F5AB0D7E5@microsoft.com>, "=?Utf-
8?B?VGhlIFVua25vd24gUA==?=" <( mikisiw@msn.com )>, "=?Utf-8?B?
VGhlIFVua25vd24gUA==?=" <( mikisiw@msn.com )> says...

> Xp has to be installed first. Regardless of whether it's on another
> partition. You have to have XP first and then isntall win98. I has to do wiht
> the Master File Table. XP must be the boss or it won't work.
>
>

True sort of, if you are a newbie to dual booting. One good thing about
98 is that I can move it to any partition on my first drive. XP, 2k,
always a pain in the ass with that.....modify boot ini blah, blah.

I have 4 OS's on Disk0, all primaries, and not one controls the other.
It's the beauty of a 3rd party boot manager and Partition Manager that
makes it flawleess for me. Only kickback is the tricks I use to do it
and try to explain it to someone, ai yai yai! If I boot to a XP pro boot
disk to clean install to my 4th partition(example) XP sees the other 3
primaries but are listed as "Inactive OS Manager" hence XP install WILL
NOT modify to include them in its boot manager.......
Anonymous
December 9, 2004 7:36:07 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

In news:F8F9D402-6557-4D42-91F8-4C7F5AB0D7E5@microsoft.com,
The Unknown P <( mikisiw@msn.com )> typed:

> Xp has to be installed first. Regardless of whether it's on
> another
> partition. You have to have XP first and then isntall win98.


Completely false. In fact it's much easier the other way around.

--
Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup
Anonymous
December 9, 2004 9:50:42 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

John wrote:
> Attempting to install xp on win98 as clean install (ie dual boot)
>
> Disconnected all periphs (bare notebook)
>
> Using Partition Magic, cleared unpartitioned space (4.5Gig) at end of
> HDD
>
> Ran full scandisk - full surface test.
>
> Setup
>
> Chose NTFS in unpartitioned space - would have preferred fat32 but not
> given the option by setup
>
> All going normally until middle of 'registering components' - '13
> minutes to go - and it stuck - HDD making 'dit dah dit dah dah' over
> and over again, for about ten minutes before I had to turn off the
> power.
>
> The above describes my third attempt, each with the same result,
> although the first two were attempts to install on a fat32 partition
> at the end of my HDD.
>
> I have not yet upgraded drivers for my Tosh Sat Pro 6000 although I
> know there are xp-compatible drivers available on the Tosh web site.
> I didn't start out by installing these as I wasn't clear whether they
> would also work with win98 - all part of this process of not
> committing to XP until I know how it behaves.
>
> Has anyone any helpful ideas?

Have you made sure that your PC's hardware components are capable
of supporting WinXP? This information will be found at the PC's
manufacturer's web site, and on Microsoft's Windows Catalog:
(http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/hcl/default.mspx) Additionally, run
Microsoft WinXP Upgrade Advisor to see if you have any incompatible
hardware components or applications.

You should, before proceeding, take a few minutes to ensure that
there are WinXP device drivers available for all of the machine's
components. There may not be, if the PC was specifically designed for
Win98/Me. Also bear in mind that PCs designed for, sold and run fine
with Win9x/Me very often do not meet WinXP's much more stringent
hardware quality requirements. This is particularly true of many
models in Compaq's consumer-class Presario product line or HP's
consumer-class Pavilion product line. WinXP, like WinNT and Win2K
before it, is quite sensitive to borderline defective or substandard
hardware (particularly motherboards, RAM and hard drives) that will
still support Win9x.

HOW TO Prepare to Upgrade Win98 or WinMe
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q316639

Upgrading to Windows XP
http://aumha.org/win5/a/xpupgrad.htm

HOW TO Troubleshoot Windows XP Problems During Installation When You
Upgrade from Windows 98 or Windows Me
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;en-us;q310064


--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having
both at once. - RAH
Anonymous
December 9, 2004 9:52:13 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

The Unknown P wrote:
> Xp has to be installed first. Regardless of whether it's on another
> partition. You have to have XP first and then isntall win98. I has to do wiht
> the Master File Table. XP must be the boss or it won't work.
>


Wrong. The older OS should be installed first, for the simplest
dual-booting, but that isn't necessary. Installing WinXP _before_ Win98
makes it significantly more difficult, though not impossible, to later
add Win98.

--

Bruce Chambers

Help us help you:
http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having
both at once. - RAH
December 10, 2004 12:28:49 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

"R. C. White" <rc@corridor.net> wrote:

>Hi, John.
>
>MVP Rick Rogers and I have already responded to your post from yesterday on
>this same subject. Have you seen those yet?

I have, but the setup problem was a rather odd one, don't you think,
and not necessarily a problem with my decision to put XP in a logical
partition, E:, after another logical partition, D: in an extended
partition, after the primary partition C: - all formatted in FAT32.

And so it turns out - I was most fortunate in finding an answer when I
googled on 'Winxp setup' and 'registering components' and '13 minutes'

Its a problem which MS have referred to in connection with automated
network installations but I found the reference and solution in a
forum. Turns out that there is a particular stage in the
registration, something to do with a server, when it can take up to an
hour for the ribbon and the 'time to go' clock to start moving again.

Thoroughly sceptical about this, I let it run and run - and sure
enough, after 45 minutes, the setup process got started again and
completed successfully.

So, to give something back to the discussion, I now have three FAT
partitions, one primary with the booting data and win98se, one for
data and one with XP.

All now seems fine.

With my grateful thanks to you all.

--
John
Anonymous
December 10, 2004 12:28:50 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

Hi, John.

Glad you got it going! And thanks for the report back. I don't have a
network, but many readers here do, and I'm sure many of them will be verrry
interested in your finding about that 45-minute delay in Setup. I have also
had several occasions, not just with WinXP Setup, but with various
installations over the years, when I was tempted to "pull the plug" but
decided to wait it out and eventually the darn thing worked.

Enjoy your dual boot!

RC
--
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
rc@corridor.net
Microsoft Windows MVP




"John" <nospam@plusnet.com> wrote in message
news:meghr0hm85oe637iptlfdb6k39veunerpg@4ax.com...
> "R. C. White" <rc@corridor.net> wrote:
>
>>Hi, John.
>>
>>MVP Rick Rogers and I have already responded to your post from yesterday
>>on
>>this same subject. Have you seen those yet?
>
> I have, but the setup problem was a rather odd one, don't you think,
> and not necessarily a problem with my decision to put XP in a logical
> partition, E:, after another logical partition, D: in an extended
> partition, after the primary partition C: - all formatted in FAT32.
>
> And so it turns out - I was most fortunate in finding an answer when I
> googled on 'Winxp setup' and 'registering components' and '13 minutes'
>
> Its a problem which MS have referred to in connection with automated
> network installations but I found the reference and solution in a
> forum. Turns out that there is a particular stage in the
> registration, something to do with a server, when it can take up to an
> hour for the ribbon and the 'time to go' clock to start moving again.
>
> Thoroughly sceptical about this, I let it run and run - and sure
> enough, after 45 minutes, the setup process got started again and
> completed successfully.
>
> So, to give something back to the discussion, I now have three FAT
> partitions, one primary with the booting data and win98se, one for
> data and one with XP.
>
> All now seems fine.
>
> With my grateful thanks to you all.
>
> --
> John
December 11, 2004 12:27:16 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

"R. C. White" <rc@corridor.net> wrote:

>Hi, John.
>
>Glad you got it going! And thanks for the report back. I don't have a
>network, but many readers here do, and I'm sure many of them will be verrry
>interested in your finding about that 45-minute delay in Setup. I have also
>had several occasions, not just with WinXP Setup, but with various
>installations over the years, when I was tempted to "pull the plug" but
>decided to wait it out and eventually the darn thing worked.
>

Since this seems of interest, here is the MS KB article that relates:


http://support.microsoft.com/?scid=839492
!