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3800+ x2 bottleneck high-end gpu ?

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October 27, 2006 7:01:54 PM

im on a amd 3500+ 939 right now and i wonder if i buy a 3800+ 2x or 4200+ x2 will it make a leap in performance or should i stay with what i got and make a bigger upgrade after some month? And will it be a bottleneck for the new dx10 cards?


btw the 3800+ 2x will cost me $60 so its pretty freakn cheap :b
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October 27, 2006 7:29:50 PM

Depending on the game you will see different levels of performance increase That's usually 0% - 40%, the 40% would only before games based and the Quake 4 engine though. I think FarCry benefits about 20% - 30%. You will need to download the patch for those games to see improvments. A more recent game like Oblivion at best sees an increase of 10% in performance going from single to dual core.

Basically most games right now do not do multi-thread, and if they do then it's rather poor. As of this moment you are better off investing money into a better GPU for performance increase. However, multi-threaded games are on the horizon.

One such game is call Alan Wake, some kinda psychologic thriller game that is designed with multi-threads in mind. From the little tid bits of what I've thread, Alan Wake will spawn 5 different threads during the game. I don't recall all 5, but there is one for audio, the AI, rendering of some sort and possibly one for physics. According to the developers a dual core will mostly be a minimum requirement.
October 27, 2006 8:03:17 PM

well... if you can afford to spare $60 for a major cpu upgrade, theres no reason not to,TBH... are you sure its only $60 for the X2? lol

but... if you foresee yourself spending hundreds in the not too distant future on a system overhaul (cpu/motherboard/ram/gpu/etc), it may be wiser to hold off till then.
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October 27, 2006 8:21:56 PM

You will not create a system bottleneck by swapping out your a64 3500+ with a dual core.

You *may* notice that some games perform not as well or flat out poorly. This can happen if a game doesn't know how to deal with more than one CPU on a system. You can easily resolve this by using the 'set affinity' command or by downloading a launch utility like winlauncherxp that lets you create affinity profiles for applications.

Swapping out a a64 b3500+ for a X2 3800 or 4200 will not bottleneck with a high end gpu unless you run Crossfire or SLI. But even the best CPUs out there according to a recent PCIe bandwidth benchmark I read, that I can't seem to remember the link for, shows that even the fastest C2Ds and a64 FXs become CPU limited (bottleneck) at some point but not until you get to the insanely high resolutions.
October 27, 2006 8:28:30 PM

Since 939 is being phased out you may want to get the best CPU you can so the upgrade will last a few years and after the price war X2's are cheap - I just went from 3800 Newcastle to X2 4800 Toledo and it flies.
October 27, 2006 8:37:29 PM

Well its because im probably gonna upgrade to a dx10 card but if my cpu is gonna be a big bottleneck for the card its no point buying a dx10 gpu, but i would be easy off with 480$ on a dx10 card and thats it, insted of upgrading the whole system 1000$ or so :b but i guess i have 2 wait and see.. but the real question was if the 3800 or 4200 would perform better than my 3500+ or perform the same cuz 60$ is nothing if it performs better


i would buy a c2d system if it wasnt for DDR2 its 4% better than DDR ''wow'' and my old DDR ram costed me 400$, i just cant see why upgrading 2 DDR2 when its allmost the same


and i know alan wake will support quadcore the test demo was on a quadcore oc'd to 37xxghz :p 
October 27, 2006 8:47:52 PM

You will see quite a big improvement over your existing 3500+. Although a 3800+ has a lower clock speed, the dual core really makes a difference. A dual core won't bog down like a single core will under heavy load. Also, the x2 3800+ is an excellent "bang for the buck" processor. Even at the stock 2.0 they do real well but if you're after more speed the x2 3800+s are very good overclockers. These cpus easily OC to 2.4 - 2.5 and run 100% stable. If you can get one for $60 I say go for it, but if you're buying it second hand, I would ask the person you are buying it from if it's been abused (OC'd to 2.6 or more)
October 27, 2006 10:14:43 PM

well im selling my old one for a good price so i get the 3800+x2 for a 60/70$ but thanks i will buy a 3800+x2 and clock it some :bbb
October 27, 2006 10:15:52 PM

btw i dont need 2 reinstall HD/drivers or anything? cuz its x2 ?
October 27, 2006 10:24:43 PM

A benchmark will see the difference; you, however, will not.
October 27, 2006 10:25:34 PM

You may need to reinstall Windows, depending. Are you keeping the same motherboard? If so you might get lucky and not have to.

Either way, it's more dependent on the chipset and whatnot. There's no definite way to tell whether or not you'll have to reinstall until you try it.

The good thing, though, is that you can probably just do a repair install.
October 27, 2006 10:35:32 PM

Quote:
btw i dont need 2 reinstall HD/drivers or anything? cuz its x2 ?


the most you will need to do more than likely, is update your motherboards bios, if it supports X2 (check the manufacturers website)

also, downloading AMDs dual core drivers and optimizations is a necessity too, as windows does not contain the necessary drivers... itll still work just fine without the drivers, but at a reduced performance.

you may also need to change your systems ACPI to a multiprocessor based PC, it probably says single processor... so, a windows repair may be necessary to avoid problems... but, it should say multiprocessor X64 or multiprocessor X86 based pc under device manager, after you do all that

but, your system will be noticably more responsive in the least, compared to your existing cpu.
October 27, 2006 10:36:08 PM

angry_ducky what i heard u can burn a cd while having antivirus on with x2 :0 isnt that a difference ?


o29 :\ gah that sucks i hate 2 reinstall takes so long time with all my shit i have 2 save =D i hope i can just plug it in :p 
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October 27, 2006 11:19:06 PM

Dude, I built my rig with a 939 3800x2 from the get go so I can't say if your gonna have issues upgrading from a single core but if your wondering if it's worth it then the answer I would have to give is a definate yes the 3800x2 can be OC'd to a stable 2.7Ghz which is faster than an FX-60(2.6Ghz) the £500+ flagship CPU!, so for 60 bucks do it you would be mad not to. IMHO
October 27, 2006 11:24:16 PM

Although you may not see a big difference in games, you will notice a big difference with an X2 in terms of multitasking and cpu intensive programs. Things like virus scans, encoding to PDF, or transcoding mpeg/etc, or just having ten progtrams open at once tends to bring a single core down to its knees. Not the case with a dual core.

In terms of system preparation it should be a relatively painless process as long as you do it in the following steps:

1) If you have the Athlon64 driver installed, uninstall it --**very important or your system may not boot into Windows after swapping the chips**

2) Go into your BIOS and note your settings, specifically your selections for Power Management (s1,s3 or both), Cool & Quiet, your ACPI setting, and your APIC mode.

3) Flash your BIOS to a version that supports the X2 3800+ then verify the system still boots into Windows OK with the old chip. If it doesn't you will need to go into your BIOS and reset the settings you noted previously.

4) Install the chip, if you plan to OC -- at the very least install a pure copper HSF with some Arctic Silver

5) Boot up your system and install the AMD Dual Core Driver and Optimizer


---

Here is how I got my x2 3800+ to 2.5

Base Frequency (FSB) set to 250
CPU core voltage set to .13875
Multiplier at 10x (default)
Memory set to 166 (ddr 333)
Hypertransport (HTT) at 4x
Lock PCI at 33mhz and PCIe at 100mhz
Set SATA controller to 'Down Spread'

This will net you the following:

2.5Ghz CPU clock speed
208mhz final memory speed (416 DDR)
1000mhz HTT

At these settings you will outrun a stock x2 4800+

You can go higher than this, but [edit] after 210 actual (DDR420) you will need to start playing hit/miss with the memory voltages which may result in your system not POSTing. So feel free to aim for the moon, just be prepared to reset your BIOS at some point. [edit]
October 27, 2006 11:29:07 PM

for 60frogskins i would say buy the x23800.
i just bought a x24400 for 225$ and it is going up in price. lol

so that makes me :) 
but i have not installed it yet as i am wonder if i can getaway
with not having to repair/reformat.

im currently on a 3700 s939.
October 27, 2006 11:32:22 PM

[/quote]Although you may not see a big difference in games, you will notice a big difference with an X2 in terms of multitasking and cpu intensive programs. Things like virus scans, encoding to PDF, or transcoding mpeg/etc, or just having ten progtrams open at once tends to bring a single core down to its knees. Not the case with a dual core.

In terms of system preparation it should be a relatively painless process as long as you do it in the following steps:

1) If you have the Athlon64 driver installed, uninstall it --**very important or your system may not boot into Windows after swapping the chips**

2) Go into your BIOS and note your settings, specifically your selections for Power Management (s1,s3 or both), Cool & Quiet, your ACPI setting, and your APIC mode.

3) Flash your BIOS to a version that supports the X2 3800+ then verify the system still boots into Windows OK with the old chip. If it doesn't you will need to go into your BIOS and reset the settings you noted previously.

4) Install the chip, if you plan to OC -- at the very least install a pure copper HSF with some Arctic Silver

5) Boot up your system and install the AMD Dual Core Driver and Optimizer

Quote:


i plan on swapping my cpu tommorow. ill give this a try, thanks :) 
October 27, 2006 11:33:54 PM

opps kinda screwedup on the quote :oops: 
October 27, 2006 11:35:59 PM

Quote:
for 60frogskins i would say buy the x23800.
i just bought a x24400 for 225$ and it is going up in price. lol

so that makes me :) 
but i have not installed it yet as i am wonder if i can getaway
with not having to repair/reformat.

im currently on a 3700 s939.


There are two reasons for why Windows won't boot after installing an X2. The first is BIOS settings -- as long as none of the settings I mentioned above remain unchanged (ACPI,APIC,etc. - which are possibly reset when flashing your BIOS) the only other thing you have to worry about is uninstalling your current AMD drivers before installing the x2. After those two it should be a simple "drop in" affair. I've doe it successfully to 11 systems (between home and work) and so far have a 0% failure rate.
October 27, 2006 11:53:45 PM

cool thanks :D  im going to do it tommorow.

the bios on my mobo is stock or never been flashed.
version 12/2005. (asus a8nsli32deluxe)
October 27, 2006 11:56:38 PM

well im gonna save all my stuff b4 i smack it in then :b yea i hope i can feel it cuz just with rar programs when i unpack it gets so freakn laggy :$


ragemonkey thanks i will try that then =D and clock it btw i have TWINX1024-3200C2PRO ram
October 27, 2006 11:58:23 PM

sirheck i have same mobo tho i have new bios in :p 
October 28, 2006 12:02:38 AM

Quote:
btw i dont need 2 reinstall HD/drivers or anything? cuz its x2 ?


Actually, Windows will usually pick up the new proc and load the right drivers. Only the "Computer" drivers in DevMgmt will be updated.
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October 28, 2006 12:05:14 AM

Nice post well set out except for the
Quote:
fairly high quality memory
bit, I'm using Kingston Value RAM running @ 225.3 /DDR 450.6 voltage is @ 2.7, cost was £70 8)
October 28, 2006 12:08:15 AM

Quote:
Nice post well set out except for the fairly high quality memory
bit, I'm using Kingston Value RAM running @ 225.3 /DDR 450.6 voltage is @ 2.7, cost was £70 8)

hehe yeah you got me there. I'll admit that I mis-spoke on that note. In fact, the best OCing memory I've ever owned happens to be Corsair Value Select. I've spent much more on supposedly better modules only to be very disappapointed.

However, as a general rule I don't recommend pushing memory much past 420DDR unless the person involved doesn't mind having to reset their BIOS via the little jumper as a result.
October 28, 2006 12:13:44 AM

baronmatrix so u say its just to plug the processor in the mobo? and windows find the drivers emself? and im good2go ? O_o
October 28, 2006 12:16:14 AM

Quote:
Nice post well set out except for the fairly high quality memory
bit, I'm using Kingston Value RAM running @ 225.3 /DDR 450.6 voltage is @ 2.7, cost was £70 8)

You can go higher than this, but [edit] after 210 actual (DDR420) you will need to start playing hit/miss with the memory voltages which may result in your system not POSTing. So feel free to aim for the moon, just be prepared to reset your BIOS at some point. [edit]

I concede... is that more accurate?
October 28, 2006 12:23:32 AM

Quote:
A benchmark will see the difference; you, however, will not.


Wow....I see sense!! *Dies of shock!*
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October 28, 2006 12:36:42 AM

:lol:  Yeah, nice one mate, I will admit to having reservations when I started to play with the voltages and FSB, oh and I forgot to mention that my divider is set at 333, but as you quite rightly say as long as the tweaker is prepared to go up in very small increments and the possible lockups or non POSTing then as you said 'shoot for the moon' 8)
October 28, 2006 1:28:44 AM

At stock speeds, it could bottleneck a high end GPU depending on the game and resolution you game at.

As others have said though, there is a wonderful thing called overclocking. ;) 
!