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Second Take: TF2 Dos and Don'ts

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November 16, 2007 7:58:56 PM

Ben and Rob show how off best and worst practices in the Orange Box's Team Fortress 2.

Watch Video:http://www.tomsgames.com/us/site/flash_videos/second_take_tf2_dos_and_don_ts.html

With the popularity of the Crysis Jackassery episode we are trying to go with more game footage and less of our ugly mugs on camera.

What are some other TF2 best practices?

What are some TF2 behaviors that annoy the *(^(&%% crap out of you?

-Ben

More about : tf2 dos

November 17, 2007 1:34:36 AM

If Valve adjusted the scores to reflect the reward the medics deserve. It would make it more worthwhile for players, The medic just doesn't get you points and while it is nice to know you helped win games, it's frustrating to heal heavy's and help take 3 points only to end the game on the bottom of the list.
November 17, 2007 3:56:12 AM

Just a few problems, first of all the demo jump goes much further than the soldier jump but hurts you more. You also don't have to stand on the control point for it to go back down but while you are on it they can't get any more. And the medic can easily been on the top of the charts if you are good and can find a decent player to heal. For someone who supposedly plays a lot you don't seem to know a whole lot. I can think of a lot better tips but am too lazy to start listing them off.
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November 17, 2007 5:29:04 AM

You say jumping is very valuable, as a competetive player I cannot disagree more. Jumping is only good if you actually know it will help you dodge fire, say jumping over a rocket. However, jumping opens you up to predictive fire, having a user shoot ahead of you, fully knowing where you will land, just because you jumped.

Also, you choose one of the worst custom maps to show as a TF2 map. Battlecreek should stay in halo, and go nowhere else. Battlecreek offers minimal cover outside the base, and has extremely confined spaces inside the base, seriously limiting realistic play for many classes, and giving serious advantage to others (soldiers, demomen, hwguy). How about cover for snipers, or engineers, or medics? Pick a real custom map, like mach2.

Additionally, your statement of the sentry position you mention for battlecreek being a good one, is inaccurate. It is good, for that side of the map. The Battlecreek map is wide enough that someone can simply go to the other side of the map, and fire at the sentry, and safely be outside the range of the sentry, and have full head-on view of the sentry and engineer. This is probably one of the best spots on the maps, but only because THERE IS NO COVER ON THIS MAP.

Additionally, putting players on a point that was partially captured by an opposing team only works on certain maps. This only works on Well and Granary style CP maps. The rest are unaffecsted by having players on them, they will go down at the same rate. Why is this? Because the only reason you are accelerating the descent on Well and Granary is because you can capture that point, on the other maps it is your job to defend that point, you already own it, and once you lose it, you cannot recapture it that round. Oh, and no matter how many you have on there, it will go down at the same accelerated rate until you start capturing it in your color. HOWEVER, it is good advice to have people to stay by the point, if you are on the point as well as your opponents, even just one of you will prevent them from capturing it at all.
November 17, 2007 3:01:19 PM

Um your wrong BloodyIron the more people you have on a control point the faster it decelerates for CP types of maps.
November 17, 2007 3:51:05 PM

If your team owns a control point and the other team comes in and challenges it but does not take it, you cannot "recapture" what the other team has done to take the point. If you stacked your entire team on the point the progress on the point will fall back the same as if no one was standing on it. There is a mention of this in the developer commentary as well. Standing on it is only needed to STOP progress by the enemy, never to reverse it, unless the point is neutral like the middle point on granary.
November 17, 2007 6:53:31 PM

Nate1054 said:
Just a few problems, first of all the demo jump goes much further than the soldier jump but hurts you more. You also don't have to stand on the control point for it to go back down but while you are on it they can't get any more. And the medic can easily been on the top of the charts if you are good and can find a decent player to heal. For someone who supposedly plays a lot you don't seem to know a whole lot. I can think of a lot better tips but am too lazy to start listing them off.


True, Nate, you can use two sticky bombs instead of one and actually jump further than Soldiers, but the problem is even if you survive the landing -- which a lot of people don't -- then you end up on the opposing side of the Fort map, for example, with next to no health, which leaves you at an extreme disadvantage.

As for the control points, yes, some of the maps don't require you to be on the control points to revert them to your color. But as some have pointed out, some maps like the Well and Granary maps do require you to be on the control points.

And I never said that Medics couldn't get a lot of points. I just said that people don't seem to want to be medics because they have to heal and ubercharge other players instead of killing opposing players directly. I've seen plenty of players at the top of the leader boards as medics because they charge up Heavys, Pyros, etc. and demolish the other team.

And Nate, don't be lazy. If you can think of more tips for TF2, please post them here -- we can always do a second video.
November 17, 2007 8:32:15 PM

first i need to get this off my chest...ctf sux horribly in tf2: how is it logical that u can out score your opponent, and then lose in o/t merely b/c u didn't reach the cap limit. also 2fort just doesn't have enough routes - all routes bottleneck @ the back stairs.

an obvious tip would be for the demo's and soldiers to injure themselves during setup to allow the medics to uber charge. a lot of times i charge a demo until uber, then they change to heavy and i'm with them for most of the level.

as for the Demo super-jump, Rob, try jumping just BEFORE detonating only 1 sticky bomb.

Demo's are also great for taking out sentries in corners with their grenades, or elsewhere with the sticky bombs. it's usually possible to take cover behind a wall and shoot nades above the wall and onto the sentry.

Engies should always have a dispenser next to their sentry if their camping. This way your healed and replenished with metal automatically. And to many engie's forget the teleport, but this can really help defend forward control points.

Spies most convincing disguises are a sniper or an engie, since those guys usually stay behind the front lines. cloak through the front lines, recharge the cloak, get by the opponent's spawn. be cautious before sapping teleporter entrances here, thought, b/c it will alert the engies to your presence, and their sentries are your real goal.
November 17, 2007 9:17:23 PM

I think to be really good at medicine, your focus needs to be team tactics; you can't be too passive. As harsh as it sounds, there are probably always going to be team mates who don't deserve your services. Some scouts have a tendency to run away when you try to heal them, while many soldiers and heavies just want a sidekick, but won't give you any protection. To get it right, you might have to do a bit of traffic direction of your own and make sure your team mates are playing your game. It's especially important in Sudden Death, where having players retreat for resupply is critical. A coordinated attack following an uberteam can tip the balance, but synchronised ubers are a blitzkrieg. Get that sort of communication going and the scores will just come begging. Of course, it always helps if you can improve the order of your team, but for a medic, his best work is done through others.

The other part I think is underrated is that big old bone saw. The medic is a fast mover and his closing speed is disarming to players who aren't expecting a live autopsy.

To add to the sports metaphors, I think one of the golden rules is 'play the ball, not the man'. Your defence relies not on being able to save your own skin to fight back, but on someone being able to stand on the point and prevent capture, if only delaying for a few seconds. Likewise, if your opponent has set up a concentrated defensive line, a single spy might be able to take both points while they focus on fending off soldiers and heavies. In CTF it is painful to see the intel leave base, while players stay inside (*cough* snipers). Why bother? You're no longer defending anything. It seems elementary, but is frequently ignored in practice.
November 18, 2007 7:05:44 AM

I wasn't suggesting medics couldn't reach the top of the point charts just that it is harder for them since being a medic can be trying, I've done my share of heavy lifting at the medic role and I'm suggesting that for the sake of "game balance" there should be unbalanced reward in skew of the medic to encourage people to play the position. I'm saying that the way people play the game is dictated often by what they see others doing, and getting rewarded for, and if giving even excessive points to the medic to reward people for playing "Team" mores the better.
November 18, 2007 11:24:23 AM

I know what you mean, but I don't know if players are all that responsive to logic like that. Like has been said, sniper stacking is rife and it's usually irrelevant to how well any one sniper is doing. Similarly, a popular tactic is to be an engineer and place your sentry in a position that sees limited traffic, rather than directly covering a CP or intel; worse is to find an engineer covering a locked point and refusing to move forward until it is too late. It doesn't seem based on scoring, but on self preservation. In fact considering the popularity, it's surprisingly rare to see either a sniper or an engineer atop the scoreboard.
November 18, 2007 5:13:08 PM

For all the other classes most of my dos and don'ts have been covered but I feel that there needs to be an extensive Medic dos and dont's list. So here goes.

DON'T
  • Call out for a medic if you're 95% healthy. Calling for a medic when you don't need one takes their attention away from the players that need it AND it pisses them off, which means they won't heal you in the future.
  • If you're ubered, don't sit back and bask in the comfort of knowing that you're guaranteed to live for the 30secs it lasts. Move up and take a position that will help the team. Pyros especially, if you're ubered - run and gun like crazy, the ensuing flaming chaos will let your team march forward.
  • On the flip side, don't go TOO crazy when you're ubered. Countless times I've ubered a heavy and have followed them to my death because they decide to rush into a death zone. Be smart.
  • Harass the medics. If we're busy healing a Heavy who's marching up the lines, don't be offended if we decide NOT to switch over to you immediately, ESPECIALLY if you have ranged capabilities and can sit back and lob nades or rockets forward without dieing.
  • Get your feelings hurt if a medic largely focuses on one player. A good player with a good medic will do far better for the team than a medic who tags up with low scoring players and gets killed due to the players inexperience.


    DO
  • Protect your medic. We hate it when you run around a corner and we have to follow, but because you were hasty we both end up eating it. Heavies - instead of rushing around corners, stay within our LOS and clear the alleyway/corridor/hall before you run around the corner.
  • If you're a scout and are on fire, run to us. We'll put you out, just don't make us follow you, we can't keep up and it takes the medics away from the front lines.
  • As a medic, be willing to die every now and then. Sometimes it takes a Heavy/Medic team to sacrifice themselves in order to blast through a strong defense.
  • As a medic, spread the love. If you're not actively healing a player, take time to charge the rest of your team. The extra boost of health lasts for a while and can seriously improve your teams ability to stay alive. This is especially true for scouts. If you can double their health as they run by, they'll last much longer.
  • Signal when you want to be Ubered. A good medic will wait until you're low on health to pop the uber (it makes it last that much longer) but it's also nice when a player tells us when an uber is needed, we'll trust experienced players.
  • Be our meat shields. If you see a rocket coming or a sniper in the distance, step in front of the ballistic in order to save our lives. A medic's low health means that we can't take much of a beating and since you're being healed, take the hits. We'll both live longer.
  • Hold off pyros. Pyros LOVE to rush straight past players and towards a medic to flame them, don't let this happen.

    IN GENERAL
  • About HEAVIES - don't stack the team with heavies if there is only one medic. An un-mediced heavy is largely useless in my book.
  • About ENGIES/SNIPERS/SPIES - if you're a noob and don't know how to best utilize these classes, DON'T play them. A team full of inexperienced engies/snipers/spies gets rolled over. If you're not doing much as one of those classes, switch to a soldier or another class that takes less skill and can contribute to your team.
  • BE A TEAM PLAYER.
    November 18, 2007 8:39:12 PM

    good list, Shez. I would add that medics shouldn't hang around dispensers b/c it makes them useless.

    your absolutely right about novices not playing as engies, too many times has a team lost a point b/c too many engies fight over whording the metal during setup, then none of them have a properly upgraded sentry nor a teleport. and if your team is attacking, you only need 1 engie, maybe two.

    also, every1 should be on the look out for engies fending off sappers, b/c it's very difficult to get sappers off all of your equipment AND kill the spy. if you see an engie running around like a chicken with it's head cut off, give 'em a hand until your sure the spy is dead. Pyros are the best for this.
    November 18, 2007 8:44:09 PM

    I'm playing right this second on a Lazytown map, and sadly, a couple of engineers decided to build dispensers and sentries IN THE RESPAWN ROOM!!!!!!

    Oh, and my team had four snipers and no medics. Awesome....
    November 19, 2007 4:28:20 AM

    http://animeclub.wycre.com/AC/album_pic.php?pic_id=1376

    Who says Medic's can't get points?

    However, the reason I get such a high amount of points is because I heal those who are either skilled or those whom I have known and played with in more than one server. I play with at least 2 people whom are friends on my list and the difference it has to the game is night and day.

    To all medics, don't be afraid to use voice chat (unless server uses voicechat-all, then that's a different issue) to coordinate with a few attackers. You need communication for your attackers to give you heads up on what are they seeing while you're stuck around the corner healing them or others.

    Don't just heal one guy at a time. Sometimes the hardest decision as a medic is to whether to abandon the person you're healing to another person. Unless you have an ub3r ready, if the person your healing is getting horded with shots like no tomorrow, sometimes the best course of action is to abandon healing and just heal another person close to you for added stance on the map to prevent any momentum gained to the enemy team.

    Lastly, bonesaw > needler, except against a pyro. People underestimate how fast a medic could run. Those melee attacks hurt a lot more than people expect. If you're lucky, that single melee to a scout is insta-kill.

    Granted, I'm not a "GREAT" player, but that's not the point. Medics can gain so many points by playing very unselfishly and in a teamwork set up. The only crappy part, it's really hard to play as a Medic without teamwork with your teammates.
    November 19, 2007 5:04:05 AM

    What a great review and tips. I used to play TF2 a lot, maybe I'll play it again after my exams.
    No noobs as engineers? Yeah I think so, or if they're smart enough they should be able to do it. Usually I like camping in First person shooter game, when I started playing TF2 for the first time being and engineer was a bit hard except putting the sentry gun in the wrong place, so I can get limited number of kills.
    Spy is definitely, :non:  for noobs because this class is too hard. Although it is pretty fun once you get use to spy. It was a tough time being a spy before the patch fix it because you can attack while clocking.
    Wow, people in here sounds so pro, I wish TomsHardware can host a game of Team Fortress 2 during Christmas Eve if possible.
    November 19, 2007 11:54:46 AM

    Maybe, if we make a part 2, I could show you guys my favorite tricks for efficiently killing Rob.

    Or maybe something on server setups.
    November 19, 2007 8:56:42 PM

    Sengoku said:
    Maybe, if we make a part 2, I could show you guys my favorite tricks for efficiently killing Rob.

    Or maybe something on server setups.
    lol, that's awesome but it might be hard.
    November 20, 2007 9:22:30 PM

    I agree with the whole 5 snipers and no medics thing. Too many times have I been starting a map as a sniper and it would be me and one other then bame. 10minutes later 5+ snipers.

    I would say don't:

    -Start as a Sniper on a new map you are not familiar with. This will only lead you wo die quite a bit to a person who is used to the map.

    -Go charging as an Engineer. You will die too fast unless the person is at 1/4 health or you are lucky.

    -Think just cuz you are a heavy with the most health you can take it. That 300 health will dissapear fast especially since the heavy is slower than any other class.

    -Rush through the front lines as a Spy. Use any back route possible to effectively use a Spy. Also do not use a tele then run towards the enemy as the sparkely thingies stay with you for about 1 minute.

    -Complain about a certain class because you keep getting killed by them. Just find a way around them instead.

    I would say the Do's are as follows:

    -Use a scout a few times on a new map to get familiar with it then use your favorite class to its full knowing where you will be best suited.

    -If you need healing and are near a dispenerary use it as it will allow medics to heal/uber the offensive classes

    -This one is kind of a don't. Do not ever trust anyone if you are an engineer. Spies will be dressed as a person from your team with their name so just for safety shoot them a few times first. Another tip there is that Spies will never be using anything except the classes primary weapon so watch out for that.

    -Watch your ammo. No need to run in ubered as a heavy if you have 20 rounds left and trust me the shotgun on the other classes are for close up or last resort.

    -Have fun. I see no need to get mad if you die a lot. Some people are extremely good at FPS and others are not. But the whole idea behind TF2 is to have a fun time playing a great game with a silly twist.

    I for example tend to laugh everytime I use a heavy next to a despenirary and just constantly shoot since he laughs so funny. Ply with a few friends and enjoy it. Team up at first then later challenge eachother. Don't get poed over nothing cuz you have infinate lives here.

    Also my tip for Snipers as stated before. Always scout the area first to gain an advantage. If you know where the other teams snipers will be and where their other players usually come from you can get a lot of points especially at 2 per headshot.
    November 21, 2007 9:21:27 PM

    Why do all videos link to windows mobile ads now? wtf
    edit: never mind, found a way to play it, i clicked the share link then copied the link from the generated email.

    About the pyro's, they ask in the video why people don't like playing as them, its because pyro's get all their kills after they are dead, all they usually do is jump out set everyone on fire then die, then 10 minutes later they get a couple of kills. They are also really annoying because of this, it often doesn't matter how fast you can kill a pyro because if they get close enough to set you on fire our pretty much dead anyway.

    I personally find spy's really annoying, they made knifing ridiculously easy, you can go invisible! Me and my friends used to only use the knife a lot in CS:S for a challenge, it was a lot of fun hiding from people to get behind them and then stabbing them to death(it doesn't count if you shoot them before you stab them, that is noob), in TF2 its just far to easy to do this because you can go invisible and makes it no fun.
    Also it takes an engineer a long time to kill a spy, they have allot of health and can usually take out an engineers whole setup without being smart or subtle at all, you can usually just run straight at the engineer's stuff zap it all and then stab him in the back even if he sees you and starts shooting you before you get to his sentry, the only hope to stop this is to have a pyro around really, but what pyro wants to stand around and watch an engineer build his turret all game.

    But its still the best multiplayer game ever created.

    Also, standing on your control point doesn't make it change back to your team any faster when your defending it, but the enemy cant take it while your standing on it.
    November 23, 2007 4:20:02 AM

    The point of standing on the control poiont is not to make it go faster. If an enemy claims part of the point and then dies, what they claimed stays. Someone from your team has to stand on it for it to go back to your color. Otherwise, when the enemy comes back, they already have half of the point claimed.

    I hate spies.
    November 23, 2007 8:24:12 PM

    While Spys and Snipers get a little annoying they have their downs. They are very easy to kill and their second weapon isn't that great.

    If you are sniping and someone comes up next to you to kill you you can't see them until you are being hurt. Then killing them is pretty hard with that small machine gun. But the sniper rifle is where their strength is. Its just fun getting a headshot on a scout who is running around.

    They Spy is fun to play but if people are smart then its hard to do. Plus in order to attack you have to come fully out of cloak. But still back stabbing a sniper is fun. Or a medic who is charging up a heavy.