no need to wait for FFD

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blexxun

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its already there:
Thats a 18.1" panel made by Chunghwa (Taiwan):
Response time: 25ms.

source:
http://www.cptt.com.tw/tft/CLAA181XA01.htm

If you want to wait..its better to wait for OCB, thats 10 times faster. Prototypes are already shown (e.g.IBM).

But don't forget, AMLCD's will always suffer from the sample-and-hold artefacts...so better wait for flashing backlights also.

I've ordered a Samsung 171P in the meantime, seems to have the latest generation panel build in..but who knows (hello THG..how about a test)
 
G

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The panel uses FFD and it only has a response time of 25ms...

Well, I guess we will have to wait a bit and see how it fairs with LCDs using PVA/MVA technologies (or whatever else is out there). But what is OCB? Never heard of that one. You got a link to it?

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G

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Sounds like a CRT compressed into an LCD....what a shame.

Look out for #1. Don't step in #2 either.
 
flamethrower205

flamethrower205

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Apparently OCB makes uses some bend techniques so that it eliminates degredation of picture when viewed from teh side (remember, viewing angle is a measurement of at what angle teh LCD is seen as 1:10 of teh contrast). This will make pic as good as that of crt from side!

Sig of the week.
 
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Well, then I'm going for FFD and that's that. I mean, why get an LCD if the display looks like that of a CRT and has a flickering backlight. One of the reasons I wanted to get an LCD was because it was easier on the eye due to the non-flicker (from what I am guessing the flicker is what causes the discomfort). If FFD doesn't totally eliminate ghosting....well, I'm sure I probably won't notice it anyway. I never really did on my laptop, so why should I with a new LCD with better specs.

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flamethrower205

flamethrower205

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I do believe that an LCD paired with OCB and FFD will be a serious rival for CRT in terms of picture, because viewing angle will no longer be a problem, nor will ghosting. The rest has already been taken care of.

Sig of the week.
 
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Well, it would eliminate some problems, but what about the flicker. I guess with this you could maybe control the refresh rate of an LCD? I dunno, if it comes out by 2003, I guess I'll get one if it looks promising and all and doesn't cost much.

Look out for #1. Don't step in #2 either.
 
G

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Oh wait....uh, I was thinking the OCB causes the flicker, but I was way off....um, don't listen to me, I'm stoned.

Look out for #1. Don't step in #2 either.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by buddwm on 04/14/02 12:48 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 
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blexxun

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flashing backlight will re-introduce the 'flickering', but its hardly visible if the frame rate is high enough (80Hz or so). You can get rid of the motion blur only if you have a flashing device (like a CRT) or if the frame rate is very high (but thats too expensive I guess:
Lets say you have a fast LCD with 2ms response time. This corresponds to a maximum frate rate of 1/ms=500Hz. Thats nice but, the required pixel frequency is then for a resolution of 1280x1024:
500Hz*1280x1024= 655MHz
Thats quite fast. Maximum bandwidth of todays grafic cards is 350Mhz or so.

OCB stands for "Optically compensated bend mode". Most infos about OCB on the net are in korean or japanese language which i cannot read. But here is link to a conference paper about OCB in english:

http://www.sid.org/sid95/lctech.htm#Properties of

It's worth to mention that MVA development doesnt stand still. @ SID 2000 Fujitsu has already presented a "Fast-Switching LCD with Multi-Domain Vertical Alignment Driven by an Oblique Electric Field" with response times <17ms for ALL grey levels. Heres the link:
http://www.sid.org/sid00/23_01.PDF

Thats better than FFD presented @SID2001 by ADI/Mitsubishi which has a response time of <20ms :

http://www.melco.co.jp/service/tft_tech/image/sid_2001_29_03.pdf.

Anyway, for now I stick to my decison for a 171p. We'll see....
 
G

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But is it possible to combine FFD and OCB into an LCD, or would these have to remain seperate technologies like MVA and PVA.

I'll edit this to be more specific. I know that FFD and OCB are different technologies, but more specifically my question is that will an LCD be abe to have both of these implemented into one LCD, or does it have to be one or the other? And when is OCB scheduled for release?

Look out for #1. Don't step in #2 either.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by buddwm on 04/14/02 02:19 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 
flamethrower205

flamethrower205

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Aw hell no, I'll sign a damn petition to keep flickering backlights! I hate fliskering! It causes a lot of eyestrain, and I notice it even above 100Hz!! LCD's were supposed to be flicker free! Budd, u can combine teh two.

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Sweeeet....this is a cause for celebration. TO THE SMOKE ROOM!!

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B

blexxun

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I'd say it is possible to combine both. OCB is just a special liquid cyrstal mode while the problem of driving a pixel is a different story. And here comes FFD into play. Turning a pixel on and off is an analog process similiar like charging a capacitor. The trick which is used by FFD (and other driving techniques) is to optimize the driving voltage depending on the content of the picture.
I have no idea when OCB is available for mass production.
 
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I don't think that would be the case if the response time was low enough, say anywhere below 15ms. I'm sure the blur is there, but I doubt the eye would be able to catch it. If LCDs go to a flashing display, I'll be sure to buy one BEFORE that happens, as I really don't want to mess with that.

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flamethrower205

flamethrower205

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Ok, with a 4ms response time, blur will be seriously low. Also consider that we are a few years away from that, and that by then vid cards will be able to support higher frequencies.

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blexxun

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I don't say that flashing back light will be used in computer monitors. Target application is LCD TV. But if you watch moving pictures on a LCD monitor without flashing back light you always get motion artefacts (see my previous post for a link). Keep in mind that the response time of a CRT is in the micro-second range compared to milli-seconds for even the fastest known LCD technology.
 
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But when as low as 4ms, I don't think there would be any major issues with artifacts or blurring. It would be at such a minimul degree that we would never be able to notice it.

Look out for #1. Don't step in #2 either.
 
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