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CPU multiplier question, P5W DH, E6600, can I change it?

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October 31, 2006 1:47:10 PM

Hi,

My specs are in the sig below. Am I able to change the multiplier on the P5W DH Deluxe? My goal would be to get my RAM at full speed (800Mhz), therefore changing the FSB to 400Mhz.

I need a multiplier of 8 then to keep it stable at 3.2Ghz. The max I can get out of my system now is 3.33Ghz (crashes to blue screen of death if I go over). Running at 9X will make it 3.6Ghz, which isnt possible on my system.

Any ideas? Thanks guys.
October 31, 2006 1:53:23 PM

dunno go into the BIOS and check or have a look on asus' website and see what BIOS updates there are and what they fix + if they allow the downward setting of the multiplier :) 

I think you should be able to do it with a BIOS update :) 
October 31, 2006 1:55:27 PM

Yeah sorry, I forgot to mention that I have the latest BIOS, and am running 1407. I've looked around but couldnt find it. Some people have the option, others dont. I want to clarify this problem ASAP (ie. if it's CPU specific, or SW specific). Anyone?
Related resources
October 31, 2006 2:00:46 PM

Guys, does it have anything to do with the "Enhanced Intel SpeedStep" technology. I disabled that (as per Wusy's guide). I think that allows the CPU to adjust the multiplier, all depending on work load. Do I need to enable that, and then somehow find the settings adjustment? Maybe thats why it wasnt showing up. Anyone?
October 31, 2006 2:01:22 PM

Under the Chipset options do you have a field called something like CPU Multiplier? You need to enable this option. Then you can drop your multiplier as low as 6. If the option is greyed out, I don't know what you can do. If the option doesn't exist, update to the latest BIOS 1503, I believe, and see if that helps.

You may have to disabled Speedstep and CI (or whatever it is called).
October 31, 2006 2:05:05 PM

I don't think the P5W-DH allows unlocked multipliers yet, and I don't know if Asus will ever allow it either...
October 31, 2006 2:05:46 PM

I dont think I've seen it there, otherwise I would have tinkered with it (not at PC now). It wasnt greyed out either. The latest BIOS has not been officially released by Asus yet no? I'm not keen to update my life support system with a BIOS from an non-credible source. Any other ideas gents?
October 31, 2006 2:07:00 PM

I know people have done it, I've read about it, but havent come across any text on how to do it. It differs from system to system - so thats why I just wanted to get some clarity. Someone must know something. Bring on the "old hands"!
October 31, 2006 2:08:27 PM

not quite sure i guess it would be both the cpu and motherboard, i was thinking about the P5B deluxe (965p) not the P5W (975x)....


heres a short thing about the P5B and cpu multiplier unlocking with core 2 duos:
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2822
Quote:

Some Conroe chips also unlock at the top, allowing ranges to about 14x. None of our Conroe chips unlocked up, but you may be one of the lucky ones who have a Conroe that unlocks both down and up.


that leads us to believe that it is the cpu that determins the multiplier unlocking - not the motherboard.....though the motherboards we are comparing are different... :?
October 31, 2006 2:11:08 PM

Any info on what versions of the E6600 allow multiplier changing? I can go back and check the serial on my box.
October 31, 2006 2:15:20 PM

Victorius! Guys, check this out. One step closer to solving the prob. Great screenshot to locate the setting.
http://img.neoseeker.com/v_image.php?articleid=1961&ima...

Now, I dont have that option. Is it my CPU, or can I get a crack via the BIOS to unlock it. How do I get this done? Thanks.
October 31, 2006 2:17:45 PM

PM jack or wusy they're sure to know....

anyhow I have read that there are no magic cpu numbers that give you a very good overclock or unlocked multiplier - yet... But i guess it is possible for it to happen.... :) 
October 31, 2006 2:18:42 PM

Does changing to multiplier from anything but stock:

1) Hinder performance in any way?
2) Damage or shorten the lifespan of the CPU in anyway?

Thanks.
October 31, 2006 2:20:23 PM

it does say:
Quote:

The CPU configuration screen lets us set the multiplier (on some processors) as well as control Speedstep and VT; the chipset screen allows us to set the memory timings.


by 'some' do they mean x6800s or do they mean 'some' E6xxx series core 2 duos? :?
October 31, 2006 2:26:42 PM

Quote:
Does changing to multiplier from anything but stock:

1) Hinder performance in any way?
2) Damage or shorten the lifespan of the CPU in anyway?

Thanks.


it will only hinder performance if you dont overclock the fsb, if you do overclock the fsb (in turn overclocking the processor) it will allow for the processor to be at or around the same speed as before but with a higher fsb.

it wont damage the processor, though if you drop the multiplier and ramp up the speed (allowing for a more relaxed FSB) then undobutably it will shorten the lifespan. Meaning temps increase, and if temps increase the processor's lifespan gets shorter. However just droping the multi on its own will not shorten the lifespan of the component.
October 31, 2006 2:27:51 PM

EDIT: higher voltage kills components.... :p 
October 31, 2006 2:29:43 PM

If I take the FSB to 400Mhz, and drop the multiplier to 8X, having a CPU speed of 3.2Ghz, with temps at 70C load (I know its high but its a long story), that should be ok right?

Alternatively, I can try get my CPU to 3.6Ghz, running my FSB at 400Mhz and at least using my RAM to the full of 800Mhz.

I've tried setting my RAM out of the 1:1 multiplier (ie. FSB = 370 and RAM = 800Mhz). It just crashes. Really bummed about this, cause I cant find any info!
October 31, 2006 2:32:43 PM

Random question - is running the MCH chipset voltage at 1.85V dangerous? I know it will in turn relate to temps, so therefore, how do I measure the mobo temps accurately. Asus Probe stinks. Any ideas?
October 31, 2006 2:34:48 PM

With my E6400 on a P5W DH with Bios 1407 I can set the multiplier to 6, 7, or 8. Speedstep has to be disabled.
October 31, 2006 2:34:58 PM

Quote:
I dont think I've seen it there, otherwise I would have tinkered with it (not at PC now). It wasnt greyed out either. The latest BIOS has not been officially released by Asus yet no? I'm not keen to update my life support system with a BIOS from an non-credible source. Any other ideas gents?


I own a P5W Dh Deluxe with a e6600. The 1407 BIOS does allow you to drop the multiplier. I enabled it and tried it out, since some C2D (non 6800) are allowing you to clock upwards, but mine would only allow me to go down.
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October 31, 2006 2:36:57 PM

I personally would'nt bother. Jumpingjack did some testing and I think Anand and/or toms too and the FSB is no bottleneck at 1066, even less at 1466. I doubt you will see any increase in real performance from going 1466 -->1600, maybe in 3D mark/ SPI and such but not in real world.

Plus you will put more stress on youre northbridge (it can handle it but still).

I forgot, what is your CPU cooler? I would suggest a aftermarket cooler( I think you have one, not quite sure but still).

Super Cooler List

I think bringing the cpu to 3.6 would give you a nice boost!, and with a good aftermarket, you can raise your voltage while keeping the chip cool!


Finally I tryed on a P5b-DX with the right BIOS to change the ratio and it was'nt there either...
October 31, 2006 2:39:40 PM

I'll check again, but I'm pretty sure it doesn. Maybe I should reflash my BIOS and check it out. Sometimes glitches do occur.

To my question on the MCH chipset voltage - HOW DO I MEASURE THE TEMPS of the Northbridge? I read a guide saying if you want to get to 3.6Ghz, you might have to take that up to 1.85V. Is this too high? I need to watch those temps. How do I accurately monitor those temps? Whats the highest it can go? Thanks gents!
October 31, 2006 2:43:36 PM

The northbridge doesn't have a temp monitor, so people say to just touch the northbridge. If it's too hot to touch for at least 5+ seconds then it's running too hot and you need to install additional cooling for the northbridge.

At extremeoverclocking.com I recall a post on how to remove the ASUS logo copper cover from the north and south bridge and removing the heatsinks and placing Arctic Silver on them and they're reported drops in temp of 5-7C.
October 31, 2006 2:43:57 PM

Quote:
I personally would'nt bother. Jumpingjack did some testing and I think Anand and/or toms too and the FSB is no bottleneck at 1066, even less at 1466. I doubt you will see any increase in real performance from going 1466 -->1600, maybe in 3D mark/ SPI and such but not in real world.

Plus you will put more stress on youre northbridge (it can handle it but still).

I forgot, what is your CPU cooler? I would suggest a aftermarket cooler( I think you have one, not quite sure but still).

Super Cooler List

I think bringing the cpu to 3.6 would give you a nice boost!, and with a good aftermarket, you can raise your voltage while keeping the chip cool!


Finally I tryed on a P5b-DX with the right BIOS to change the ratio and it was'nt there either...


I've got a good cooler, but just have a dud chip. I've been at 70C load for sometime now. Really bummed about that. Nothing I can do, and it works fine without too many probs. I'd really like to push for 3.6Ghz, FSB at 400Mhz, and temps still at 70C load. (thats been my max threshold in TAT no matter what my voltages are).

My questions:
1) I've been unable to reach 3.6Ghz, crashes past 3.33Ghz. CPU voltage at 1.425 or something like that. Do I need to increase the MCH to go further?
October 31, 2006 2:46:19 PM

Is the northbridge the set of bronze fans, directly above the CPU?
October 31, 2006 2:47:51 PM

Temps that high are not good. You either have a bad CPU, in which case you should RMA it because it's under warranty or it is your MB giving incorrect temp reads, in which case you can RMA the board.

Your best bet is to use a seperate digital/analog temp probe and place it between your CPU and heatsink. If that reading is giving you 60C+ then you definitely need to return your CPU. There is really no reason you should ever hit 60C with a Conroe.
October 31, 2006 2:49:04 PM

Quote:
Is the northbridge the set of bronze fans, directly above the CPU?


No, that's the voltage resistors/regulators or whatever it is called.

In that picture, the northbridge is directly left of the CPU.

Oh, and my temps with my e6600 (have the same MB as you) @ 3.42GHz (380FSB) are around low 30 idle and high 40 load. And I'm using an Arctic Freezer 7 Pro.
October 31, 2006 2:55:01 PM

and the southbridge is the next bronze heatsink topped chip to the left of the northbridge :) 
October 31, 2006 2:59:39 PM

Never mind. I read the Extreme Systems article. Seems pretty self explanatory. I might want to do that. Still dont know what the max temps are for NB and SB. Do they have shutdown breakers built into them, or can you actually nuke the board?
October 31, 2006 3:04:49 PM

GoDMan , you made 500 posts. CONGRATS!
October 31, 2006 3:06:17 PM

based on your case, i wonder how people overclock their e6600 w/ asus p5w dh deluxe up to 3.6ghz or even more 4ghz.

or do they run it with other motherboard which performs a lot better than asus p5w dh deluxe?
October 31, 2006 3:08:12 PM

i just cant get passed 3.33Ghz. It's unstable past that, never mind the temps. I see people have recommended upping the MCH, but I dont know how to measure those temps, and I dont know what the max heat settings are. Asus Probe measure the SB. Can someone please help? THANKS!
October 31, 2006 3:10:26 PM

Has anyone installed the aftermarket cooler that came with the board, on the chipset? Does it have any position effects? Anyone?
October 31, 2006 3:14:07 PM

Quote:
Has anyone installed the aftermarket cooler that came with the board, on the chipset? Does it have any position effects? Anyone?


The ASUS manual clearly states to not install the chipset fan if you have a fan on the CPU heatsink, as it will interfere with the airflow of the CPU fan. It's sole purpose is for use in passive cooling/water system.
October 31, 2006 3:18:59 PM

sorry can't help you. haven't tried p5w dh. asrock 775dual-vsta here :twisted:

so goodluck! :) 
October 31, 2006 3:25:56 PM

Thanks guys. If anyone read this post, then:

1) What is the max I can set the MCH to in volts?
2) What are the max temps it can get to
3) How do I measure that?
4) Will it shutdown automatically, for protection, if it gets too hot?

THANKS! :o  :lol:  :o  :lol: 
October 31, 2006 5:22:36 PM

Seems like you've run into the P5W DH 370FSB wall. Try using SPD settings.
October 31, 2006 6:19:39 PM

Quote:
GoDMan , you made 500 posts. CONGRATS!


thankyou, thankyou, yey :D 
i'm happy now, next target is 1000! :lol: 
October 31, 2006 6:30:51 PM

I've got my SPD settings at manual, 4-4-4-16 CAS 4. I think the prob is the MCH voltage. I need to up that, but still dont know how much higher I can go. I'm at 1.65v. I dont even know how hot I'm running. Any ideas guys?
October 31, 2006 6:34:33 PM

The P5W DH can overheat easily. I used to run at 360-385 fsb with a 10x multiplier and 1.55-1.65vMCH but experienced long term stability problems probably linked to daily temperature fluctuations combined with a blow-through instead of a blow-down CPU heat sink. It got worse as I noticed some disk copy errors (duplicating a 100MB+ file, then finding a mismatched checksum every time).

I turned down vMCH, vICH, and vFSB to their minimum voltages and ran at 333 fsb with an 11x multiplier. It's completely stable now up to ~345fsb, which is plenty for overclocking purposes, and the heatsink is no longer too hot to touch. The RAM runs at very tight timings (3-3-3-4), which mostly compensates for the lower streaming bandwidth.

An E6600 and P5W DH aren't very well matched. You have a mid-range modern CPU and an older high-end motherboard. The locked multiplier is going to limit your overclocking unless you have active cooling for the northbridge.
October 31, 2006 6:59:38 PM

Wr, best damn respsonse I've heard all day. I really appreciate it. This makes total sense. It comes down to the multiplier then, to see if I cant get it changed.

I am worried about one last thing. Does decreasing the multiplier effect performance on the P5W DH? I've read that downclocking it has a big negative effect on performance of the P5B. I will try post that link (saw it this AM, I think ExtremeSystems or something).

Do you know anything about this?
October 31, 2006 7:05:37 PM

strap a small 40mm fan onto the northbridge heatsink and up the voltage, see if you get any problems with that higher voltage and see if you can get the fsb higher.

Of course this would be a tempoary measure, after you hit the sweet spot with the fsb then you can gradually lower the VMCH, test with prime95, if stable lower the VMCH more and so on... :p 


Quote:

An E6600 and P5W DH aren't very well matched. You have a mid-range modern CPU and an older high-end motherboard. The locked multiplier is going to limit your overclocking unless you have active cooling for the northbridge.


the 975x P5W DH is not really a older high end motherboard as it was released around conroes debut, though I guess what you mean is the chipset is older (in that case you're right).... :) 

However there is no new enthusuiast chipset built around core 2 duo available at this time. Only the 965p was built around core 2 duo and thats for the higher end-mainstream. :) 
October 31, 2006 7:11:12 PM

Quote:
I am worried about one last thing. Does decreasing the multiplier effect performance on the P5W DH? I've read that downclocking it has a big negative effect on performance of the P5B. I will try post that link (saw it this AM, I think ExtremeSystems or something).


I dont think it will affect it, though i haven't tried to lower the multiplier before on a P5W DH....

It also shouldn't because all it would really do is emulate a slower cpu, say a E6400, not a E6600, the motherboard would see it as a slower processor, thats all i guess. It wouldm't make a difference, in my mind anyway... :) 

Also EIST lowesr the cpu multiplier to x6 at idle, so that it effectivly becomes a E6200 (even though there is no such thing, at the moment anyway)
October 31, 2006 7:56:38 PM

Hey thanks man. I did try that though, and still couldnt get past the wall. I moved them back after I couldnt get any further.
October 31, 2006 8:29:16 PM

umm this might be off topic but when you update the bios on p5w deluxe what do you do?Can it resolve into serious problems if you do it wrong?
October 31, 2006 9:01:01 PM

I'm careful about that - close everything in Windows, then use the update SW in the OS to update it. Load it from the BIOS update file saved on my desktop. Not the best way I know, but it works. Trying to figure out the USB Bios update gizmo, havent gotten to that.
November 1, 2006 12:04:57 AM

Is it worth it ?What does it give you?Like the newer version?
November 1, 2006 12:47:32 PM

UPDATE!

Guys, last night I tried everything. I messed around for hours, a couple of hundred reboots, and STILL COULD NOT BREAK MY 3.3Ghz wall. I managed to boot properly at 3.6Ghz, but my temps were just too high (vcore = 1.5V)

For those who read this post - I AM VERY DISAPPOINTED at the performance of the P5W DH, and the E6600. If I could go back, I would have probably gone with the E6400, and maybe the same mobo, but probably another one.

I mean, nothing wrong the the OC I got on this machine, but I didnt get the best bang for my buck. Live and learn I guess. Check out the article on the E6400 OC'ed to 3.33Ghz. I think these chips have a wall there.

The Mhz gain from 3.3ghz to 3.6Ghz is not worth the risk of running into temps in the high 70s (hence the wall).

Chat soon.
November 1, 2006 2:28:33 PM

i will (if i remember+have time) tell you about I get on overclocking with my E6600+gigabyte ds4+zalman 7700alcu. And although every chip is different, try and shed some light on whether it is the motherboard that is limiting you overclock or the processor itself. :) 

getting it all back toninght :D 
!