upgrading suggestions for AGP user

firstly my machine spec

Intel P4 2.8
Intel 875PBZ motherboard with AGP slot
1GB DDR400 PC3200 memory (2x512mb sticks)
Gainward Nvidia 5600FX graphics card 256mb
4x250GB hard drives (1 SATA, 3 EIDE PC133)
Creative PLatinum 5.1 PCI card
Pioneer 107DVD dual layer dvd writer
Pioneer 104 DVD writer
19" iiyama Visionmaster 450 Pro monitor @ 1600x1200
450W PSU

straight off I know to upgrade further is gonna need new RAM, MB, CPU to get a PCI-E board so that ain't even an option right now

more memory is obviously one tick in the box
graphics card tick two.

so....suggestions please

I'm aware of the gainward 7800GS+512mb card, but I've also heard tell of a ATI X1950XT on AGP that's worth getting but can't seem to find much reference for it. any reviews I can be pointed too?

some people on this forum diss the 7800GS+ and say to go for a 7600 but surely that's stepping down a bit too far? isn't the 7800 essentially a 7900 GPU with a few lesser tweaks?

any other suggestions?

I've always been a big Nvidia person in the past but the 7800GS seems to have a high power requirement. I have room in the case for it.

TIA

Nope.

The 7800 GS is a 16-pipeline card. Like the 6800 GT/Ultra.

True 7900 GPUs have 24 pipelines. The 7800 GS is extremely crippled compared to a 7900...

But I encourage you to not believe me, check the benchmarks. They don't lie.
You will see the 7800 GS at stock speeds performs like an X850 XT, 6800 Ultra, or 7600 GT: (actually, the 7600 GT AGP is usually better!)

http://www.hardwarezone.com/articl [...] cid=3&pg=5


If you're not going to upgrade your platform and want the best gaming card available to North Americans, you'll have to get over your brand preference and grab an AGP X1950 PRO when they become available (should be this month), will be about the same price as the 7800 GS but will provide a helluva lot more performance than the 7600GT/7800GS.

If you can't get over your brand preference, get a 7600 GT AGP I guess...

Although with your platform, your best bet might be to save the cash and get the $130 X850 PRO. Once again, not your brand, but it will kick the living shiznit out of your current Geforce FX 5600... and performance will be reasonably close to the 7600 GT for less $$, which you should be saving up for a PCIe upgrade.

D'oh!

Too slow! :?

clear a bit of confusion up first,

I'm in the UK, so laying mitts on a 7800GS+ is an option.

@cleeve. isn't the 7800GS+ 24 pixel pipeline like the 7900?

I know its expensive but my case has room for it and according to the benchmarks on toms hardware its the best performing AGP card out there. then again, we haven't seen what the X1950 pro can do.

sounds like something special.

also @cleeve

quote
'Although with your platform'

huh? it ain't that bad is it?

price range wise. £340 ish bracket which translates to about $550

I'm not prejudiced against ATI, just when I was a network admin at a games company they were trouble, then again, this was about 4 years ago.

did the 7600 come in 512mb flavour or plain 256mb only? and which 7600? I see some people say GT, but what should I AVOID as I am well aware that nvidia produce crippled MX (to borrow old parlance) style cards to the unsuspecting consumer.

also, someone mentioned socket 478 boards that have PCI-E on them. anyone care to throw out a suggestion of which models to aim for here so I can search for them?

thanks for the steer on that. there is one other i've found from albatron. the problem really is that they are socket 478 with PCI-E but only at best 3PCI slots and I need 5!

so I think it's the more ram, 3.2 processor for £30 on fleabay and x1950pro route to milk it as far as it will go.

well 3.2 3.4 whatever the fastest a 875pbz chipset will take. bearing in mind, it's an intel chipset so the overclocking options are nil anyway.

whats a gallatin EE when its at home?

Yes, it is. And that will definitely be as fast as the X1950 PRO, right on par, although if it costs much more it wouldn't be a good buy because performance should be on par.

Well, we sort of have, when you consider that the AGP bus isn't really a bottlenecking factor compared to the PCIe bus.
So look for PCIe X1950 PRO benchmarks compared to 7900 GT benchmarks tnd that should give you at least an idea of the performance delta of the AGP X1950 PRO and 7800+

No, not at all. But at this point it's costing you money to stay with it because PCIe cards are so cheap - you'd pay about a $50 premium on the 7600 GT because of your AGP bus. And the premium you'd pay for the 7800+ over a 7900 GT is astronomical.

That money would go a surprisingly long way toward a CPU/Mobo combo upgrade, and you could sell your old stuff on ebay...

Only get the 7600 GT.
Avoid the GS.

All AGP 7600 GTs are equal as far as I know, I think only Leadtek and XFX make AGP versions of the card.

Thwey're both 256mb, but don't be too concerned that they don't have 512mb, the extra memory does little for performance.

HOLD UP.

I believe they are releasing the X1950 PRO in AGP, not the X1950 XT

The X1950 PRO is about as fast as most 7900 GTs.

The X1950 XT will be faster than that.

On the upside, the X1950 PRO for AGP should be in the neighborhood of $220 to $250 USD when released this month.

Hold out until next year for DX10 components and then just build a new computer.

Oh no. I say given current PC3200 prices, forget adding more memory...stick with 1GB. But the FX5600 is a lousy gaming card (no offense). By far tick one should be replace that video card.

For the equivelent of $550 USD, I'd forget that 24-pipe Bliss+. Your system is still decent, but putting a $550 card in it isn't worth it. I would seriously look into the X1950 pro as it should be >= to the 24-pipe Bliss+. Again, if it's also the equivelent of $550, forget it IMO, unless of course cards like the 7600GT are $400 themselves.

Below that, compare the plain 16-pipe 7800GS prices to the 7600GT. Personally I would rather have the 7800GS if priced the same as the 7600GT. That review shows they are close, but they tested the two cards 6 months apart with different drivers, so the slight lead the 7600GT shows can be accounted for driver improvements IMO. But it does seem that the 7800GS, 7600GT and 6800U, and X850XT are all very close performers, close enough that none of them are really worth more than the others. So if you could find any of them significantly cheaper than the others, it would be the best bang for your buck.

And as someone said (Cleeve I think), even the X850 pro is so far ahead of your current card, that the gaming difference would be huge.

No fucking shit

Yeah, but I heard the X1950 PRO AGP might be under PCIe reference as well. Haven't heard anything solid though.

Working on getting samples for an AGP roundup though...

1950 PRO, X1650 XT, 7600 GT, and 7800 GS.

Doubt I'll be able to get my hands on a Gainward BLiss tho.

That's cool... a Good selection of current/future AGP cards. The Bliss+ would have been a nice addition; Tom's need to send you one of them. X850XTpe would have been nice too, but with dry supply again who knows if it would ever be priced worth buying again anyway. It would only be to satisfy the need to know rather than point out what's bets to buy(reason for your review I imagine).