skt939 DDR vs sktT DDR2

[rustang351c]

Hello. I want to build a gaming machine for around $1000. I think the intel sys is a little more. I'm not a tweaker. I'll try to overclock it mildly once, then leave it a alone.

STABILITY is definately more important than performance, so if is not tryed n true, don't recommend please. Based on that info, which one of these two would you recommend, insert different parts as necessary.

Athlon 64 X2 system:

Epox EP-9NPA+
Athlon 64 X2 4600+ 2.4
Patriot 2x1Gig DDR400 2-3-2-5
Asus EAX1950PRO
W.D. SE16 WD2500KS
SeaSonic s12 500w

Intel E6400 system:

Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3
Intel E6400 Core2duo 2.13
Patriot 2x1gig DDR2-667 4-4-4-12
Asus EAX1950PRO
W.D. SE16 WD2500KS
SeaSonic s12 500w

 

[jaguarskx]

I would say the E6400 system will be quieter becuase of the Seasonic S12 500 PSU. I have it in my system it is really quiet.

I don't know about the stock HSF though. Both are relatively quiet for stock fans. I use the Scythe Ninja.

Most of the sound will probably come from your Radeon 1950Pro. I have the X1900XT 512MB and that thing can get loud when you stress it. It's not a freight train, but I can heard the high pitch whine of the fan.

Samsung Spinpoints are generally the quietest consumer hard drives you can buy, but they are also slow. Seagate hard drives offers a good balance between performance and noise. Based on what I've read Seagates are generally about 2dBA louder than Samsungs but offer better than average performance.

 

[horstmann]

From what I have heard the Asus P5W DH deluxe motherboard for the e6400 system would be more stable than the gigabyte board.

 

[horstmann]

Also, what case are you putting this in. The antec 180P is a very quiet and cool case.

 

[rustang351c]

Good to know, so the SeaSonic is quieter than the Fortson or Enermax Liberty.
What about the Stability part? Is DDR2 pretty much plug n play now, or is there alot tweaking with that system just to get it to run (i've never built a PC before) Is the RAM I chose compatible? PAtriot is dependable?
If I try a mild overclock, will anything need a new fan on it?

I like the ThermalTake Matrix, has a 120mm on each end
Matrix

 

[rustang351c]

Come on guys, anybody else?

 

[horstmann]

If you want to o/c ddr2800 is the way to go. You just plug ram in. No tweaking to get it to work. If you o/c then you might tweak it.

The core 2 duos are supposedly pretty good overclockers on just their stock heatsinks (Mild Overclock) and that would be the only component to need a new heatsink for overclocking.

That case looks fine. Cases are mostly personal preference as long as they have good air flow.

 

[apt403]

DDR2 pretty much plug n play now, or is there alot tweaking with that system just to get it to run

yeah its pretty much plug and play, the only real tweaking would be to get a little extra performance out of it by tighening up the timing. with OC-ing theres some tweaking involved but your only changing a few settings, like getting it to run in a 1:1 ratio.

Is the RAM I chose compatible? PAtriot is dependable?

yeah it's compatable. I would say that patroit is pretty dependable but i would go for something like OCZ, G. Skilll, or corsair.

If I try a mild overclock, will anything need a new fan on it?

for a very light overclock you could probably use the stock hsf but you should really get a new one before you try anything. something like a sythe ninja plus, thermaltake big typhoon, or Scythe Infinity will keep your system nice and cool. you could probably get over 3.2ghz stable with those coolers if you go with ddr2 800 RAM.

 

[yuseaname]

I have 1GB (2x512MB) Patriot DDR2 800. I had to get it when my first G. Skill it had a dead stick, and newegg went out of stock at the time. I dropped in the Patriot ( extreme low latencies too) in my core 2 system and haven't looked back. I pulled the DDRspec down to pc4300 (1:1) and I am stable at 505MHz x4, or 2020MHzFSB on an E6300 (~3.5GHz) with a latency of 4-3-4-10. Now, I am not being a fanboy or anything just saying that out of two other rigs I have built (one using corsair and the other G. Skill) I have been most satisfied with this.

 

[rustang351c]

Man, I don't know what you just said, but I will learn!
Anyways, sounds like patriot is good stuff. at a good price.

....ugg, no Patriot in 2x1Gig kit. going to PC2 8000 is gonna bump up the cost $200 too.
...and the Asus P5w-DH is $100 more than the Gigabyte Ga-965p-ds3, worth it?
So when you o.c. the cpu, it increases he ram speed too? or that's the timing or ratio settings? The E6400 system sounds like its gonna be @$1500 as opposed to the 64 X2 @$1100. Is the greater o.c. ability worth it? It'll be what speed stable opposed to what stable from the 64 X2?

O.C.ing the videocard would probably be a bigger help to gaming?
..overclocking the videocard is a whole different animal right? It's done thru a utility that comes with it, not the Bios? If I o.c. the X1950pro, will it need a new fan?

 

[Newf]

...and the Asus P5w-DH is $100 more than the Gigabyte Ga-965p-ds3, worth it?

Depends. They are 2 different animals. The Asus is a higher end board with more features and runs the 975 chipset. The DS3 is more mainstream, just as stable, fewer features and runs the 965 chipset. The DS3 will be more sensitive to your choice of ram. The 1.8v Patriot in your originating post should work fine. The board choice is a features/budget issue. They are both good boards.

So when you o.c. the cpu, it increases he ram speed too? or that's the timing or ratio settings? The E6400 system sounds like its gonna be @$1500 as opposed to the 64 X2 @$1100. Is the greater o.c. ability worth it? It'll be what speed stable opposed to what stable from the 64 X2?

With a locked cpu, you OC by raising the FSB. The ratio settings may allow you to dial back the memory speed as you OC the cpu, but you can't change ratios with the AMD 'cause the memory controller is part of the cpu.

O.C.ing the videocard would probably be a bigger help to gaming?
..overclocking the videocard is a whole different animal right? It's done thru a utility that comes with it, not the Bios? If I o.c. the X1950pro, will it need a new fan?

Yup, yup, yup and maybe.

 

[tool_462]

The DS3 is a great board for the price. I wouldn't hesitate to build a system based around it.

C2D CPU's perform best at a 1:1 ratio (correct me if I'm wrong, I have heard this multiple times) This means that if your FSB is set at 333Mhz, your memory speed will be 333mhz but it is DDR (Dual Data Rate) so memory will run at 666mhz. That is a 1:1 ratio and if you wish to keep your memory at a 1:1 you will OC at the same rate that you OC your CPU.

Someone will explain memory timings, or you can find a guide on Google. I must be off to class, if no responses, I will be back and finish my explanation.

You are correct, OCing your 1950Pro will be done with a downloadable utility. Many guides can be found, and it is a very easy process.

You may want a new fan for the X1950 if you want to have a quiet system. Arctic Cooling Accelero X2 is great and very affordable (~$20)

 

[rustang351c]

ok, I'll go with the gigabyte then, since I don't want to do anything extreme.
Is the ram voltage what determines if it'll work with a board? more to it than that? so it looks like the PC2 5300 ram is mostly +/-1.8v & the pc2 6400 is +/-2.2v. Is 2.2v too high for the gigabyte mobo? Will the 5300 OC almost as well?

So intel system will OC better since the cpu isn't locked, & takes DDR2?
Sounds like it's worth the extra couple hundred.
With an aftermarket HSF & above parts, is 3.2-3.5 average OC?

I didn't see the scythe ninja on newegg?
I'll definately replace the videocard fan with the quieter Accelero so I can OC it. I hear my 6600GT fan over everything else.
(or maybe northbridge?)

 

[Newf]

ok, I'll go with the gigabyte then, since I don't want to do anything extreme.
Is the ram voltage what determines if it'll work with a board? more to it than that? so it looks like the PC2 5300 ram is mostly +/-1.8v & the pc2 6400 is +/-2.2v. Is 2.2v too high for the gigabyte mobo? Will the 5300 OC almost as well?

Using anything other than 1.8v ram with a 965 chipset board is suspect. These are new boards, and as their BIOS releases mature, more and more will POST with ram SPDs > 1.8v. With any chip, you can only raise its speed so much before it needs a higher voltage to go further. That's why OC-friendly ram is rated at higher voltages than standard/value ram.

So intel system will OC better since the cpu isn't locked, & takes DDR2?
Sounds like it's worth the extra couple hundred.
With an aftermarket HSF & above parts, is 3.2-3.5 average OC?

No, the cpus on all but the Extreme/FX chips are locked. Thats why you have to fool the cpu into working faster through the FSB. The mfr's choice of ram chips determine which sticks OC better than others, not either the brand or whether they are DDR vs. DDR2.

 

[jaguarskx]

So intel system will OC better since the cpu isn't locked, & takes DDR2?
Sounds like it's worth the extra couple hundred.
With an aftermarket HSF & above parts, is 3.2-3.5 average OC?

I didn't see the scythe ninja on newegg?

As the person above me stated, only the Core 2 Duo X6800 CPU is unlocked. All others CPUs are locked. Therefore, you will need to increase the FSB in order to overclock. To run a C2D CPU all you really need is DDR2 533 RAM. But for overclocking you will need to use DDR2 667 or 800 RAM. DDR2 800 (and faster) is for extreme overclocking.

DDR2 RAM's actual frequency his half of the rated speed, therefore DDR2 533 RAM operates at 266MHz, DDR 2 667 is 333MHz and DDR2 800 is 400MHz. RAM voltage is typically 1.8v - 2.1v, high performance RAM generally requires more voltage so you better make sure the motherboard can deilver it.

Two formulas to keep in mind:

RAM Frequecy = RAM MHz x Ratio x 2 (2 for double data rate)
CPU Frequncy = RAM MHz x Clock-Multiplier

The best setup for DDR2 800 RAM would be as follows for the E6400:

RAM Frequency = 400MHz * 1 * 2 = 800MHz
CPU Frequency = 400MHz * 8 clock multiplier = 3.2GHz

-------------

I believe the stock HSF is good enough for mild overclocks. All C2D CPUs use the same fan so if HSF can handle the X6800 @ 2.93GHz, using it up to 3.0GHz should be fine, but a bit warm. However, it is a good idea to buy an aftermarket HSF though.

---------------

The Scythe Ninja has been temporarily pulled from the shelves because they will release a revision B which has a retention brakcet for socket AM2. However, I expected it would have been out by now.

 

[rustang351c]

ok, hope I don't say anything stupid...
64 x2 & E6400 OC in the same way.
both are dual core processors starting close, 2.13 vs. 2.4mhz
mild OC speeds are both going to be similar, 3.0 - 3.5??
so are there advantages to doing:
Gigabyte mobo, E6400, PC2-6700
over
Epox, Athlon64 X2 4600+, PC-3200

I guess going back to post #1, which would you do?
Wishlist Intel
Wishlist AMD

 

[rustang351c]

bump

 

[jaguarskx]

Both links are pointing to the same system, the E6400.

Basically I would choose the E6400 above almost all AMD builds for the moment. The E6400 is about the as fast as an Athlon 64 4600+ or 4800+ depending on the benchmark used.

A socket 939 Athlon 64 build with DDR 400 RAM may be slightly cheaper than the E6400. However, if your proposed Athlon 64 is socket AM2, then you'll need to get DDR2 800 for performance to be comparable with a similar socket 939 Athlon 64 CPU.

On the other hand, the Core 2 Duo CPUs only requires DDR2 533. So if you were to buy the more expensive DDR2 800, you can overclock the E6400 up to 3.2GHz. That's about a 1.1GHz overclock above the stock speed. Of course you should get a good aftermarket heatsink fan should you attempt to do that.