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To buy or not to buy AM2...

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November 4, 2006 6:01:58 PM

Hey, new user here 8O .

I was just wondering wether or not to buy into the AMD AM2 platform or not. I've heard things about and AM2+ socket amongst other things. Also, with DirectX 10 coming out soon is it worth upgrading now???
I was planning on buying a new AM2 mobo, X2 4800 processor and a 1900xt.

Thnx

More about : buy buy am2

November 4, 2006 6:06:25 PM

Quote:
Hey, new user here 8O .

I was just wondering wether or not to buy into the AMD AM2 platform or not. I've heard things about and AM2+ socket amongst other things. Also, with DirectX 10 coming out soon is it worth upgrading now???
I was planning on buying a new AM2 mobo, X2 4800 processor and a 1900xt.

Thnx


I would say that it is worth it and yes you will get a better core with L3 next year. Teh AM2+ chips will fit into AM2 mobos.
November 4, 2006 6:49:15 PM

Quote:
think about it and read alot,am2 isnt for crap right now.wait or get a c2d.
value systems =AMD
speedy systems =Intel
if you can wait,do that.am2 sux right now unless youre building cheap.
i have an am2 set up and its not much more than i had with my 2800+ barton k7. i am sure its alot better but i dont notice it alot.


Don't listen to him. He's biased. Just because a car goes 170MPH and yours goes 150MPH doesn't mean yours is slow. It means the other is faster. For anything you'll do 4800+ will be MORE THAN FINE. I have a 4400+ and it hasn't slowed down since Core 2 came out.


The 4800+ is even 10-20% faster than mine so I can recommend it.
Related resources
November 4, 2006 7:14:44 PM

Quote:
think about it and read alot,am2 isnt for crap right now.wait or get a c2d.
value systems =AMD
speedy systems =Intel
if you can wait,do that.am2 sux right now unless youre building cheap.
i have an am2 set up and its not much more than i had with my 2800+ barton k7. i am sure its alot better but i dont notice it alot.


Don't listen to him. He's biased. Just because a car goes 170MPH and yours goes 150MPH doesn't mean yours is slow. It means the other is faster. For anything you'll do 4800+ will be MORE THAN FINE. I have a 4400+ and it hasn't slowed down since Core 2 came out.


The 4800+ is even 10-20% faster than mine so I can recommend it.

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol: 


Depends what you want and what you need. If you absolutely, positively, have to have a system right now, I would go with a 939. Parts are dirt cheap, performance is solid and you can save money for later down the road.

If your looking for a strong performer, I would go with C2D.

If your looking for upgradeability, I wouldnt recommend an AM2 system right now. AMD is playing with the AM2 socket CPUs, and hardcore facts as to what is going to happen, and what chipsets (for the mobo) are going to support AM2+/AM3s advanced features are not available. Down the road, once AMD decides what its doing and there is a chipset that is known to support the features of its improved processors, then AM2 would be a way to go.

On the other hand, a solid fact for you is that Intels 975 chipset will support quad core and the socket 775 will be around for awhile
November 4, 2006 7:22:33 PM

Quote:
He's biased.

Oh, the irony.
November 4, 2006 7:23:03 PM

Quote:
Hey, new user here 8O .

I was just wondering wether or not to buy into the AMD AM2 platform or not. I've heard things about and AM2+ socket amongst other things. Also, with DirectX 10 coming out soon is it worth upgrading now???
I was planning on buying a new AM2 mobo, X2 4800 processor and a 1900xt.

Thnx
Just realize that AM2 really requires DDR2-800 minimum for decent performance, whereas Core2Duo only needs DDR2-533. Yes, C2D is the better processor now, but A64 is still fast(in other words..it's not "slow"). If you're content having to buy top-notch RAM to tap the A64's true potential, than by all mean get AMD...i'm sure you won't be disappointed. If you get a Core2Duo, you will be more than (not disappointed).. you'll likely be all giggly. GL :) 
November 4, 2006 7:23:44 PM

Right, but if both cars are the same price, except the faster car has a better-sounding engine and better fuel index which car would you get?
November 4, 2006 7:38:39 PM

Quote:
C2D is a better buy right now.

Don't listen to BaronBS, he'll say go with AMD and crap, but the fact is, C2D is a better product right now, and makes it a better buy.

Yes, A64 are still fast, especially when talking about higher end X2s, but it's better to buy the better/faster product.

For anything you'll do 4800+ will be MORE THAN FINE.

Can't you just admit the fact C2Ds are better, and thus a better buy, or you'll be a stubborn sissy with no friends all the time? :roll:

Quote:
Just because a car goes 170MPH and yours goes 150MPH doesn't mean yours is slow.

Yes, 150MPH is slow, it's child's play.

Quote:
Don't listen to him. He's biased.

How is he biased for recommending a better product?

I think the car analogy is an admission that Core 2 is faster. So what. 23% of the world's buyers still buy AMD with more signing up everyday. I don't remember me ever doing this before Core 2 in regards to Intel.

Everyone won't have the fastest PC even if ONLY CORE 2 was sold because somebody will get E6300 and somebody will get X6800.

Let people make their own decisions. Give them the facts. Don't give them a sales pitch for another product. This person asked if 4800+ AM2 was worth it and if he would have an upgrade path both are true regardless of Core 2 being faster.

AM2 has defined AM2+ as the next socket. It won't support DDR3 and the chips will work in AM2.

The Antares and Altair have been announced for Q307.



Linkage!

Dude buy te 4800+ you won't regret it. With a 7900GT/GTX you can play FEAR at 1280 - maybe not with soft shadows though.
November 4, 2006 7:49:21 PM

No offense, but you know very well that for the price of a 4800+ you can get a faster, more efficient CPU. Like you said, give them the facts. And the fact is that a Core 2 Duo is a better buy. Besides, will current AM2 obos even support DDR3? And also, with the G80 on the verge of release the 7900GTX doesn't seem like a very good choice.
November 4, 2006 7:58:19 PM

http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?nam...

Quote:
If you watch long enough, you will be able to recognize several categories of posts, that is, recurring styles which Baron makes. They have recurred frequently enough that I have my own little “pet” names for several of them. A few of these are:
“Tangential segue”
“Redefinably vague”
“Defensively counter accusatory”
For example, a typical Baron tactic, when confronted by irrefutable proof, is to attempt to “segue tangentially” by driving the argument at a different point in order to divert attention from his error. This is one of my favorites and occurs regularly enough. Watch for it.
Another to watch for is the “vague-redefinition”. Baron will make some statement which will lean very clearly in a specific direction, yet remain vague enough as to not constitute what one could call “prosecutable evidence”. He will argue his point until proven indisputably wrong, then he will simply say, “That’s not what I meant”, or “I meant what you said, your just to ingnorant to understand how I was saying it”.
The “defensively counter accusatory” tactic is simple, and recurs frequently. In many instances when proven wrong, he will simply state he is not wrong, and cast aspersions at the counter-data, or an individuals interpretation of the data set, or the individual themself.


A “Tangential segue” !!
It's a collectible!
November 4, 2006 8:03:37 PM

Don't listen to anyone..

Just save up and buy...




A Harley!!!


:oops: 
November 4, 2006 8:07:41 PM

*Kicks Grimmy for recommending a Harley over a Hayabusa*
November 4, 2006 8:31:28 PM

I kin run fazter dan ani of youze! cuz I is gangzta!
November 4, 2006 8:50:39 PM

Quote:
I kin run fazter dan ani of youze! cuz I is gangzta!
Your Foot-Step Bus is overclocked. :wink: hehehe
November 4, 2006 10:06:24 PM

Quote:
Give them the facts.

I told him the fact that C2D is a better CPU in performance and efficiency.

I tell the facts, why don't you start telling the facts also.

He does give facts: Facts as they occur in his own little world

November 4, 2006 10:06:51 PM

Core 2 duo will give you the most bang for your buck. AMD = inferior product for superior price. If you buy the right mobo it will give you the upgrade path to a quad core. If you are building a budget machine and aren't as concered with preformance, than AMD would be an ok choice, but the preformance differential is BIG.
November 4, 2006 10:10:55 PM

Good evening Mr Turpit.
Gives new meaning to the song, "Its a small world after all" doesn't it?
Edit: You picture isn't working...
November 4, 2006 10:18:54 PM

Quote:
Good evening Mr Turpit.
Gives new meaning to the song, "Its a small world after all" doesn't it?
Edit: You picture isn't working...


Good evening to you Ninja. All is well I trust.
How goes the move/unpacking?

I will find another photo
November 4, 2006 10:26:33 PM

All is well, all is good. I've got everything unpacked, and I even took photos of my house. You can find them in my blog (You'll have to scroll down past some reviews). I'm still awaiting the delivery of propane so I can turn on the heat.

You'd damn well better. Oh wait you did.. all is well with the world then.
November 4, 2006 10:32:41 PM

Quote:
All is well, all is good. I've got everything unpacked, and I even took photos of my house. You can find them in my blog (You'll have to scroll down past some reviews). I'm still awaiting the delivery of propane so I can turn on the heat.


I saw the pix. Lovely house. Looks very similar to my sisters area up north. Enjoy the winter. I personally miss the snow, the "variations on summer" theme gets old after awhile.

Propane. Good choice for heating. Clean and cost effective. As long as the delivery comes on time.
November 4, 2006 10:53:20 PM

Quote:
Hey, new user here 8O .

I was just wondering wether or not to buy into the AMD AM2 platform or not. I've heard things about and AM2+ socket amongst other things. Also, with DirectX 10 coming out soon is it worth upgrading now???
I was planning on buying a new AM2 mobo, X2 4800 processor and a 1900xt.

Thnx

The sAM2 and teh X2 4800+ are fine, but there are faster variants for less money.
C2D E6400 wipes the floor with the X2 4800+ and costs less. C2D CPUs are much more energy efficient than the K8 CPUs and are dissipating less heat. The C2D CPUs are much more overclockable than the K8 CPUs.
There is a sticky thread on this subforum about C2D, its performance, effciency and overclockability.

BTW, BaronMatrix is our forum clown. I use to call him BaronBS because his hobby is to post proAMD and antiIntel BS. He is the greatest liar that have ever joined this forum(or maybe the internet). He claims that he has invented the AMD 4x4 platform and that he predicted what is going on now. He also claims that he is the best C# developer on the earth.
November 4, 2006 11:28:11 PM

As the guy said, if you want something which will see you through the next gen of AMD processors - choose AM2.

If you want to go cheap, and are prepared to start all over again at a later stage go with 939. Just ensure that the parts you choose are reusable after the upgrade.

RAM for instance. 939 uses DDR RAM, whereas AM2 uses DDR2. DDR is dead for all purposes, and you might want to factor that into your decision. And choice of socket will not affect your DX10 upgrade plans.


Brothers,

I am new to this forum, but even I am getting sick of the fan boys in these forums. A guy wants to know if AM2 is a good choice or not. Why dont we just give him the info he wants? I'm sure he will pop the question if he wants to know if AMD or Intel is better for his money. Or for that matter if ATI or nVidia is a good choice.

Every question on a Processor or Video card sparks off a flaming war between the two camps. Why dont you guys let a person make his / her own choice? :x
November 4, 2006 11:56:12 PM

Quote:
All is well, all is good. I've got everything unpacked, and I even took photos of my house. You can find them in my blog (You'll have to scroll down past some reviews). I'm still awaiting the delivery of propane so I can turn on the heat.


I saw the pix. Lovely house. Looks very similar to my sisters area up north. Enjoy the winter. I personally miss the snow, the "variations on summer" theme gets old after awhile.

Propane. Good choice for heating. Clean and cost effective. As long as the delivery comes on time.

O.o Are you insane man? :wink:
November 5, 2006 3:35:30 AM

Quote:
All is well, all is good. I've got everything unpacked, and I even took photos of my house. You can find them in my blog (You'll have to scroll down past some reviews). I'm still awaiting the delivery of propane so I can turn on the heat.


I saw the pix. Lovely house. Looks very similar to my sisters area up north. Enjoy the winter. I personally miss the snow, the "variations on summer" theme gets old after awhile.

Propane. Good choice for heating. Clean and cost effective. As long as the delivery comes on time.

O.o Are you insane man? :wink:

No, just a yankee by birth. :roll: Changes of seasons are good for my soul :D  Perpetual summer gets boring after awhile.
November 5, 2006 5:19:34 AM

Quote:
All is well, all is good. I've got everything unpacked, and I even took photos of my house. You can find them in my blog (You'll have to scroll down past some reviews). I'm still awaiting the delivery of propane so I can turn on the heat.


I saw the pix. Lovely house. Looks very similar to my sisters area up north. Enjoy the winter. I personally miss the snow, the "variations on summer" theme gets old after awhile.

Propane. Good choice for heating. Clean and cost effective. As long as the delivery comes on time.

O.o Are you insane man? :wink:

No, just a yankee by birth. :roll: Changes of seasons are good for my soul :D  Perpetual summer gets boring after awhile.In Canada, we have some very interesting seasonal changes....no doubt. Fall is awesome, with the leaves changing color, and snow is nice(was gonna say cool). :wink:
I used to pray for snow, when i was into snowmobiling(very fun sport), but now i've been out of sledding for 8 or 9 years...it would be nice to have a winter where i don't freeze my cahonah's off. :p 
November 5, 2006 7:14:13 AM

Quote:
well dont freeze our cahonas off or your coronas,bieng without reproductive ability is one thing but not bieng able to get drunk is criminal. :wink:
Us Canucks drink to keep warm... Well-known fact. :wink: :p  I don't need to reproduce at this point....so all is well.
November 5, 2006 7:25:47 AM

Quote:
All is well, all is good. I've got everything unpacked, and I even took photos of my house. You can find them in my blog (You'll have to scroll down past some reviews). I'm still awaiting the delivery of propane so I can turn on the heat.


I saw the pix. Lovely house. Looks very similar to my sisters area up north. Enjoy the winter. I personally miss the snow, the "variations on summer" theme gets old after awhile.

Propane. Good choice for heating. Clean and cost effective. As long as the delivery comes on time.

O.o Are you insane man? :wink:

No, just a yankee by birth. :roll: Changes of seasons are good for my soul :D  Perpetual summer gets boring after awhile.In Canada, we have some very interesting seasonal changes....no doubt. Fall is awesome, with the leaves changing color, and snow is nice(was gonna say cool). :wink:
I used to pray for snow, when i was into snowmobiling(very fun sport), but now i've been out of sledding for 8 or 9 years...it would be nice to have a winter where i don't freeze my cahonah's off. :p 

Yeah. I try to get up north to visit my family during the change of colors, but it rarely works out. Difficult to time. I love those rare warm fall days, and the first heavy snow of the season. Que sera sera.
November 5, 2006 5:46:03 PM

Erm...thanx for the help guys.

I'm a bit of an AMD fanboy, so AM2 it is! :) 

All i need now is some good ram...
November 5, 2006 9:44:16 PM

Go for 2 x 1 Gb sticks DDR2-800. Pretty pricey at the moment though. Got myself this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1682... at $306.

The price varies from $220 (happened a few days after I bought it, tore my heart out) to $300 with a $40 MIR. You may want to track the prices and then buy.

Of course there is cheaper memory, look around on Newegg. Dont forget AM2 needs DDR2, and AMD Dual Core can go upto DDR2-800
a c 96 à CPUs
November 5, 2006 10:06:38 PM

AMD's AM2 platform is a decent one, certainly. But Intel's Core 2 isn't bad either. Here's what I see as the highs and lows of each:

AM2 Advantages:
1. Boards are less expensive than most Core 2 Duo-compliant units.
2. You can get really low-TDP processors to fit in it (65W EE and 35W SFF EE models.) Intel does not have any of those in LGA 775.
3. If future AM2 CPUs are made, the will work with your system. This is in contrast to Intel, who keeps the same socket but changes the chipset so that you must buy a new board with a new chipset to run new CPUs.
4. Easier compatibility of parts- any AM2 CPU will work in any AM2 board. (Most LGA 775 boards are for Pentium 4/Pentium D CPUs and will *not* support Core 2 Duo or Core 2 Quattros.)
5. SLi and Crossfire capability today.
6. Better overclocking control as you have lower multipliers unlocked on all CPUs.

Core 2 Duo LGA 775 Advantages:
1. The CPUs perform slightly better dollar-for-dollar than AMD's CPUs. Intel also has the top performers overall.
2. You can run crappy DDR2-533 RAM and the CPU will run nearly as well as if you ran expensive DDR2-800 or better. AM2 X2s *need* DDR2-800 and like the lowest latency of it you can get.
3. Intel sticks with a socket a long time, so even if your board's chipset won't run new CPUs, you can still at least use your super-duper LGA 775 heatsink. With AMD, that's not necessarily so as socket 939 heatsinks don't fit on AM2 boards' mounts, for example.
4. Better overall overclocking as Intel's 65nm chips have a ton more headroom than the upper-end AMD 90nm chips do. However, you are limited to a straight up-the-FSB overclock as the lower multis are locked on Intel CPUs, save for the X6800.

So I would say to evaluate whether future upgradability or present lower cost (AM2) or current better performance (Core 2 Duo) are more important. Personally, I would buy the best bang-for-the-buck system in my budget today and not replace/upgrade anything other than the GPU and maybe RAM in the future. The new boards a couple of years from now will be much better than the current ones, even if today's board will run a 2008 CPU.
November 5, 2006 10:16:38 PM

Quote:
AMD's AM2 platform is a decent one, certainly. But Intel's Core 2 isn't bad either. Here's what I see as the highs and lows of each:

AM2 Advantages:
1. Boards are less expensive than most Core 2 Duo-compliant units.
2. You can get really low-TDP processors to fit in it (65W EE and 35W SFF EE models.) Intel does not have any of those in LGA 775.
3. If future AM2 CPUs are made, the will work with your system. This is in contrast to Intel, who keeps the same socket but changes the chipset so that you must buy a new board with a new chipset to run new CPUs.
4. Easier compatibility of parts- any AM2 CPU will work in any AM2 board. (Most LGA 775 boards are for Pentium 4/Pentium D CPUs and will *not* support Core 2 Duo or Core 2 Quattros.)
5. SLi and Crossfire capability today.
6. Better overclocking control as you have lower multipliers unlocked on all CPUs.

Core 2 Duo LGA 775 Advantages:
1. The CPUs perform slightly better dollar-for-dollar than AMD's CPUs. Intel also has the top performers overall.
2. You can run crappy DDR2-533 RAM and the CPU will run nearly as well as if you ran expensive DDR2-800 or better. AM2 X2s *need* DDR2-800 and like the lowest latency of it you can get.
3. Intel sticks with a socket a long time, so even if your board's chipset won't run new CPUs, you can still at least use your super-duper LGA 775 heatsink. With AMD, that's not necessarily so as socket 939 heatsinks don't fit on AM2 boards' mounts, for example.
4. Better overall overclocking as Intel's 65nm chips have a ton more headroom than the upper-end AMD 90nm chips do. However, you are limited to a straight up-the-FSB overclock as the lower multis are locked on Intel CPUs, save for the X6800.

So I would say to evaluate whether future upgradability or present lower cost (AM2) or current better performance (Core 2 Duo) are more important. Personally, I would buy the best bang-for-the-buck system in my budget today and not replace/upgrade anything other than the GPU and maybe RAM in the future. The new boards a couple of years from now will be much better than the current ones, even if today's board will run a 2008 CPU.


Nice post.

IRT AMD point 3, I would warn that while future AM2 CPUs may work with current AM2 boards, advanced features of those CPUs may not be accessable due to the older chipsets, as well as the rumoured advance to DDR 3 on AM3.

On the cost vs performance, THG (bless there soul) finally listened to us and broke out the core families on their chart, giving a much more accurate representation of price/performance:

November 5, 2006 10:18:00 PM

Quote:
I'm a bit of an AMD fanboy, so AM2 it is! :) 

If you are an AMD fanboy then don't ask others for their opinon. Just stick at your favorite brand.! :x
November 5, 2006 10:32:31 PM

Quote:
2. You can get really low-TDP processors to fit in it (65W EE and 35W SFF EE models.) Intel does not have any of those in LGA 775.

I dissagree on this point. There are no 35W SFF EE models available on the market. The only model X2 3800+ EE is possible to buy if you buy entire system from some system builders. Except the Core2 XE, all other Core2 CPUs are rated at 65W.
November 5, 2006 10:33:30 PM

Quote:
Erm...thanx for the help guys.

I'm a bit of an AMD fanboy, so AM2 it is! :) 

All i need now is some good ram...


Yeah there are ways to save even more withou really losing perf. For example you can get cheaper 667 RAM. You can also choose the nForce 570 SLI instead of the 590 SLI.

DDR2 800 isn't cheap right now though. Luckily, you won't see a noticeable difference in games or anything, meaning RAM doesn't make games unplayable. I have a Turion X2 with 533 RAM and it's snappy enough.

I did see some CAS3 2 x 1GB 667 for $249 here.

You'll be more than happy with AM2. The 4200+ is probably the sweet spot right now and should clock to 2.6GHz with a tad more voltage and the retail HSF. But even at 2.3GHz my 4400+ runs a 7800GT at 1280 UHQ.

I'm jumping on the 4x4 train when Vista releases.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
November 5, 2006 10:49:28 PM

DDRII-533 and X2 gets Baron seal of approval:
November 5, 2006 10:50:39 PM

He didn't spread any FUD that time. He was honest. I guess.... :?
November 5, 2006 10:59:28 PM

Quote:
He didn't spread any FUD that time. He was honest. I guess.... :?


See I made you all into MY CLOWNS.
November 5, 2006 11:01:39 PM

Quote:
He didn't spread any FUD that time. He was honest. I guess.... :?


See I made you all into MY CLOWNS.

:?: :?: :?: :!: :?:..........
November 5, 2006 11:01:58 PM

Quote:
DDRII-533 and X2 gets Baron seal of approval:


:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol: 

Thank you, thank you so much....that just made my day
November 5, 2006 11:02:57 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Erm...thanx for the help guys.
DDR2 800 isn't cheap right now though. Luckily, you won't see a noticeable difference in games or anything, meaning RAM doesn't make games unplayable. I have a Turion X2 with 533 RAM and it's snappy enough.


You may want to take a look at this:
http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2800&p=7

AM2 requires DDR2-800 for best performance. Each speed grade down (ie. 667, 533) results in a 5 - 10% performance drop in games. Sure, it probably won't be 'noticeable', but it's still not ideal. Your Turion may feel 'snappy' enough but the truth with DDR2-533 you are running 10 - 20% slower than optimal DDR2-800 speeds.

Using cheap RAM on AM2 doesn't make sense to me at all - it's akin to using cheap tyres on a performance car.

People talk about the cost savings on the AM2 platform compared to C2D but the need for faster RAM really cuts into the cost savings.

The hard truth is, dollar for dollar, C2D has AM2 beat at this moment.
a c 96 à CPUs
November 5, 2006 11:06:11 PM

Oh, yes, I should have mentioned that all AM2-socketed chips will work in all AM2-socketed motherboards but not necessarily at their full potential performance as AM2+ has improvements that AM2 does not. But I'd guess that the performance drop won't be that critical and will make upgrading a current AM2 board with an AM2+ chip still very worthwhile.

And to gOJDO, there are 35W versions of single-core CPUs as well (Athlon 64 3500+ EE, Semprons 3000+, 3200+, 3400+, and 3500+) in socket AM2. Not that I would recommend a single-core CPU for general usage at this point, but they do exist and can be useful for HTPCs and such.

Core 2 "E" series CPUs (E6300, E6400, E6600, E6700) are rated at 65W. But (and this is a big "but") Intel rates their CPUs differently from AMD. AMD's TDP = I_max * V_core_max. So the CPU can not possibly burn more power than its TDP. Intel calculates the same figure but lops off 25% owing to the UL spec and their assumption that nobody will run their desktop CPU at totally maximum power for hours on end. If you look at the Xeons (especially the NetBurst Xeons) their TDPs are generally closer to the 100% dissipation figure.*

* I looked at the datasheet for the new Xeon 51xx series (ftp://download.intel.com/design/Xeon/datashts/31335501....) and cannot for the life of me find the actual Vcc/VID used for the CPUs! I found the Icc_max = 75A for all but the 5180 (90 A) but cannot find the core voltage except that it's 1.000 V < Vcc < 1.500 V. So it's awfully hard for me to say what the actual maximum dissipative TDP is in *current* Intel CPUs.

Baron: all RAM is expensive. You just about can't get any RAM worth a darn for less than $100/GB today. I hope it will go down in the future as it's shot up more than prices of hot dogs once you set foot in a stadium.
November 5, 2006 11:17:24 PM

Quote:
And to gOJDO, there are 35W versions of single-core CPUs as well (Athlon 64 3500+ EE, Semprons 3000+, 3200+, 3400+, and 3500+) in socket AM2.

I know, but I thought that you are comparing Core2 Duo to an equivalent K8 dualcore Athlon64 X2/FX CPU.
November 5, 2006 11:19:26 PM

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See I made you all into MY CLOWNS.

a c 96 à CPUs
November 5, 2006 11:20:10 PM

Yes, I know, but I wanted to say that there are more 35W chips from AMD. Unfortunately the 35W SFF EE is hard to get, but they are something that Intel does not have in 775. Eventually AMD will release more 35W CPUs on AM2, according to their roadmap. They will have to be on 65nm of course.
November 5, 2006 11:22:40 PM

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Core 2 "E" series CPUs (E6300, E6400, E6600, E6700) are rated at 65W. But (and this is a big "but") Intel rates their CPUs differently from AMD. AMD's TDP = I_max * V_core_max. So the CPU can not possibly burn more power than its TDP. Intel calculates the same figure but lops off 25% owing to the UL spec and their assumption that nobody will run their desktop CPU at totally maximum power for hours on end. If you look at the Xeons (especially the NetBurst Xeons) their TDPs are generally closer to the 100% dissipation figure.*

Why bother with that when there are countless reviews with measured ower dissipation figures. Core 2 Duo versus standard voltage X2s is basically the same as X2 versus 800 series Pentium-Ds. Half the power for better performance, or twice as many cores for the same power consumption.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/cpu/core2extreme-qx6700/...

The 1.075v SFF EE beats the Core 2 Duos in power consumption, but then there's nothing to stop a Core 2 Duo owner to undervolt their CPU. And depending the motherboard used, the Core 2 Duo system might still beat the SFF EE even at 1.325v.

http://www.techreport.com/reviews/2006q4/core2-qx6700/p...
a c 96 à CPUs
November 5, 2006 11:36:26 PM

That's full-system load though. NVIDIA is well-known for having power-hungry chipsets, so that can affect full-system power draw. There are lots of variables that affect power consumption of an entire system, the CPU being only one of them (and with modern GPUs, usually not even the major determinant.)

But to tell the truth, the wall-outlet draw is all that really matters if you care about power burned, which is why I am glad to see it listed. To tell the truth, TDP and IC dissipation is more a heat-in-the-case issue than anything.

And as far as Intel not releasing undervolted 775 Core 2 Duos for the SFF and HTPC market, I am surprised that they don't do this OR offer Socket M (479) micro-ATX boards for their already-undervolted Core 2 Duo laptop CPUs. That is a really big up-and-coming segment and I am surprised that Intel is not trying to target it. The Core 2 Duos might not run all that hot, but I would much rather put as low of a TDP of CPU as I could in those very small and poorly-ventilated cases (if nothing more than to ensure that it's silent.) I wonder if they will eventually do this as it makes business sense.
November 6, 2006 12:25:06 AM

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think about it and read alot,am2 isnt for crap right now.wait or get a c2d.
value systems =AMD
speedy systems =Intel
if you can wait,do that.am2 sux right now unless youre building cheap.
i have an am2 set up and its not much more than i had with my 2800+ barton k7. i am sure its alot better but i dont notice it alot.


Don't listen to him. He's biased. Just because a car goes 170MPH and yours goes 150MPH doesn't mean yours is slow. It means the other is faster. For anything you'll do 4800+ will be MORE THAN FINE. I have a 4400+ and it hasn't slowed down since Core 2 came out.


The 4800+ is even 10-20% faster than mine so I can recommend it.

:p  dont listen to him hed sell you a house shaped as an amd logo and promise future electrical upgrades would make it pointless to have lightbulbs :p 

seriously its all relative to what you want and can afford,the 4800+ is a decent chip .but intel is still faster :tongue: so there.

I find it interesting that people still have no comprehension as to what a "price/performance ratio" is. See, it's where you get the most performance out of a part at the price range you are steering towards.

On one hand, you have the tried and true overclocker, the E6300. To overclock this thing obscenely, 150 dollar (or more) motherboards are needed with better than average cooling solutions. Let's take the new Zalman figure-8 shaped one. That's another 65 bucks.

AMD on the other hand, can't overclock nearly as well as the C2's can but the motherboards are much cheaper, and because AMD's can't overclock very well, the cooling solutions aren't as critical because it's not as worth it to squeeze performance out of an AMD.

What this comes down to is simple: is the stock AMD whatever it is as fast as the Core 2 Duo E6300? The answer may or may not be yes. If it's not as fast, the E6300 is the better choice. If it is, the AMD is superior because of the lack of effort needed to OC and similar to identical performance.

The reality of the matter is not only slightly different, but downright harsh for AMD in that anything above a 4600+ isn't really worth it compared to a Core 2 Duo. However, underneath the range of the E6300 is AMD's playground with the less-than-even-decent P4 and PD's, with their obscene heat and terrible performance. It's up to where your price-range is. Make an AMD and Intel set up, see which will perform better based on benchmarks from sites like Tomshardware, www.bit-tech.net, and others that aren't completely bogus, and make a purchase.
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