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OC potential of e6300 with ddr400?

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November 4, 2006 7:18:35 PM

im sure this has probably been asked before, sometime on here, but i have a question...

im seeing if i can get a relative to upgrade his existing setup from a s462 sempron 3000+/2x512MB PC3200, to an e6300/ecs pcm800pro-m v2 combo

and its also only $170 for the total upgrade (because all of his existing parts would be used aside from his cpu/motherboard)... now what im wondering however, is that because this particular C2D motherboard also supports DDR400 (which is what would be used)... how much of an overclock can be reasonably expected then on stock cooling? or would the existing memory prove to be too much of a bottleneck to OC the e6300 by much at all, or limit performance by a great deal even...

im hoping to maybe reach e6600 performance... or even close.

thanks in advance for any of the help that can be given :) 

More about : potential e6300 ddr400

November 5, 2006 2:52:12 AM

C2Ds dont support DDR. Yould need at least DDR2 533 to run at stock speeds.
November 5, 2006 3:30:37 AM

Quote:
C2Ds dont support DDR. Yould need at least DDR2 533 to run at stock speeds.


that asrock vista 775 board supports core 2 and ddr1 and ddr2 ram. i dont know if its "technically appropiate" for the core 2, but i know people have used it.
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November 5, 2006 3:54:49 AM

so, its possible to use then?... i guess the performance really wont be top notch with the use of DDR400, just as long as it works is all im concerned about now, lol
November 5, 2006 4:21:43 AM

I would search for a professional review because Ive got no idea how you could run a 266Mhz FSB on 200Mhz memory without serious performance losses.
November 5, 2006 4:46:57 AM

rwaritsdario is right, c2d uses ddr2 standard, even if you manage to get c2d going with ddr standard it will be a huge $/performance loss ddr will bottleneck your new and 'chiny' c2d
November 5, 2006 4:46:58 AM

hmmm... i looked around for a bit... no professional reviews really, just numerous threads of people pointing out different boards supporting both conroe, apg, and ddr1/ddr2 memory... someone claimed the difference was about 10% in ddr2's favor, instead of going with ddr1... really not sure how accurate that is without an actual review onhand, im sure ill find one... but, nothing substantial yet either way.

@ assman: hmm... yeah, youre probably right... ddr2 memory shouldnt be too expensive either way... ill have to see if hes open to purchasing some also, lol

thanks everyone :) 
November 5, 2006 5:07:54 AM

Quote:
so, its possible to use then?... i guess the performance really wont be top notch with the use of DDR400, just as long as it works is all im concerned about now, lol


I have that motherboard...I'll try it tomorrow with my 6400 and DDR400. I'll post my findings.

The motherboard is ok. Limited overclocking though, but still some. I had a 805 in it, and it reached 3.4 but it kept throttling--again limited BIOS settings.
November 5, 2006 5:08:51 AM

okay, very cool :) 
November 5, 2006 5:21:43 AM

This article gives performance information with the differences between DDR and DDR2 memory on a ASRock 775Dual-VSTA. It shows that the performance is very similar between DDR and DDR2 RAM.
November 5, 2006 5:25:52 AM

thanks :) , thats definetly reassuring then
November 5, 2006 5:29:00 AM

if you run it at stock, and how can you possibly run 200mhz ram in 1:1 with a 266fsb, just to get it to run @ 1:1 you're gonna have to oc the crap out of that ram
November 5, 2006 5:31:50 AM

Well that article said nothing about OC performance, but general performance overall. The DDR400 accually ran at a 4:3 ratio.
November 5, 2006 5:34:16 AM

so what good does it do to choirbass, he wants to oc(at least to e6600 stock)
November 5, 2006 5:37:20 AM

well... im okay with it if the stock performance isnt hindered really... ...i suppose if i wanted to OC by much though, ill definetly have to invest in some dd2 memory, its okay either way though... an e6300 at stock speed isnt by any means slow :) ... so if worse comes to worse, well just have to stay at stock speed
November 5, 2006 5:39:10 AM

Go to anandtech they have reviews of Asrock boards that a conroe with ddr. They show thet conroe doesnt benefit from ddr2 much like the athlon doesnt benefit from it. Overclocking is another issue.

Latley I am even questioning dual channel vs single channel memory.
Looks like and overclocked sempron64 (128kb L2) to 2.5 runs games like a Athlon64 2.2Ghz.


http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2810
November 5, 2006 5:40:20 AM

it was just posted
November 5, 2006 5:41:05 AM

Quote:
Overclocking is another issue.


and i already mentioned that
LOL
November 5, 2006 6:54:37 AM

Sorry, I just read a few posts from the beginning and saw how bad thay were so I posted.
November 5, 2006 7:30:18 AM

Quote:
I would search for a professional review because Ive got no idea how you could run a 266Mhz FSB on 200Mhz memory.


If you dont know what you are talking about, please dont post.

You run 266FSB and 200MHz RAM in the same way you run 266FSB and 400MHz (DDR2-800) RAM - dividers.

The overclocking potential of the C2D would still be ok, but you'd have to drop the RAM down a couple of settings as the DDR-400 wont go much above stock speeds. If you drop the RAM down to DDR-333 speeds, it should be good for an FSB up to about 333.

On the other hand, the ASrock 775DUAL-Vista is a crappy board for overclocking anyway so probably wont reach that speed, and if it does the RAM will severely hold back the CPU performance.
November 5, 2006 9:34:40 AM

My post has been edited/completed. But again after reading Anandtech's article it isnt valid, performance seems to be mainly depedent on FSB.
November 5, 2006 10:27:08 AM

the asrock 775dual-vsta won't do moderate oc. you have the limit of around 285mhz to 297mhz. some people able to reach the 300mhz or a bit more, but that rare.

i use stock speed since i could not get stable with 296mhz oc. with ddr400.
November 5, 2006 11:23:20 AM

Quote:
im sure this has probably been asked before, sometime on here, but i have a question...

im seeing if i can get a relative to upgrade his existing setup from a s462 sempron 3000+/2x512MB PC3200, to an e6300/ecs pcm800pro-m v2 combo

and its also only $170 for the total upgrade (because all of his existing parts would be used aside from his cpu/motherboard)... now what im wondering however, is that because this particular C2D motherboard also supports DDR400 (which is what would be used)... how much of an overclock can be reasonably expected then on stock cooling? or would the existing memory prove to be too much of a bottleneck to OC the e6300 by much at all, or limit performance by a great deal even...

im hoping to maybe reach e6600 performance... or even close.

thanks in advance for any of the help that can be given :) 


Well, you have two mobos that work with c2d and ddr. I tried to oc an E6300 in a asrock 775 dual-vsta with some crappy ddr and it wouldn´t pass 2.14ghz because of ram errors. Performance loss was little, but bios settings to make it work were too difficult because cpuz and everest readings were different. Later I tried with some ddr2 667 and the northbridge couldn´t take more than 1.98 ghz on the cpu.
Make your choice.

Edit: Bios 1.8
November 5, 2006 11:48:28 AM

What does that matter? That e6300 was stable at 3Ghz in a Gigabyte mobo.
Aren´t we talking about mobos that support ddr? So, the asrock 775 dual vsta supports ddr and ddr2 along with another ecs mobo... and they have no oc potential.
November 5, 2006 12:54:01 PM

I don't think the performance difference with Single core is substantial between dual and single channel, but will probably be with multi core. Speculation though, just what I have seen when benchmarking the two in games and other tasks.

wes
November 5, 2006 4:40:19 PM

i guess theres been numerous posts since i was last on... ...yeah, its okay if theres not much OCing at all... since the cpu/motherboard upgrade is less than the price of the processor by itself :)  lol, so i cant complain there... because like everyone is saying, its very much a budget board, all around anyhow... ...im just happy to be able to move him away from a noticably outdated single core, especially for the kinds of things he does... mostly movie encoding/editing, music encoding/converting, and photo editing

thanks for the help everyone, its been much appreciated :) 
November 5, 2006 5:56:14 PM

Quote:
C2Ds dont support DDR. Yould need at least DDR2 533 to run at stock speeds.


that asrock vista 775 board supports core 2 and ddr1 and ddr2 ram. i dont know if its "technically appropiate" for the core 2, but i know people have used it.
A Core 2 isn't an AMD in the sense that the memory controller is located on the northbridge versus on the die itself. It wouldn't be "technically appropriate" to run a Core 2 with say, SD-RAM, but it's theoretically possible to do it. A Core 2 Duo with DDR-RAM is probably just sitting plump on a 915 instead of the newer 945s, 965s, and 975s.
EDIT: Was it 915? Myabe it was 865? I didn't pay attention to Intel back in those days. NForce2+Barton FTW!
November 5, 2006 7:43:38 PM

Quote:
so, its possible to use then?... i guess the performance really wont be top notch with the use of DDR400, just as long as it works is all im concerned about now, lol


I have that motherboard...I'll try it tomorrow with my 6400 and DDR400. I'll post my findings.

The motherboard is ok. Limited overclocking though, but still some. I had a 805 in it, and it reached 3.4 but it kept throttling--again limited BIOS settings.

OK, the max I could get on the ECS motherboard was 2.4ghz (8x300), because the FSB was limited to 300mhz. It would not go any higher even with the latest BIOS. I even tried software overclocking (clockgen) but the PLL wasn't supported. I'm still looking for another software solution.

As for the RAM it has options for 200, 266, 333, 400, 533, 666, auto. It's overclocked a little with the 300FSB. Not sure what the exact value is, CPUZ would not show it either (I'm guessing 500mhz). I tried 1:1 (533) on my DDR1 400, it booted, but failed Prime95. Ram timings had Turbo and Ultra, manual on this board.
November 5, 2006 7:49:05 PM

definetly cool, thank you :) ... so a jump from 1.86 to ~2.4 is definetly significant then, considering the motherboard and ram in use
November 5, 2006 7:57:32 PM

Quote:
definetly cool, thank you :) ... so a jump from 1.86 to ~2.4 is definetly significant then, considering the motherboard and ram in use


In the BIOS the vcore showed 1.280, with options for +.01, +.02, +.03. Weird, because the default should be 1.3250. So, with +.03, you would only get 1.31v.
November 5, 2006 8:09:51 PM

yeah, that is kinda odd... well, we still have yet to go out and purchase the cpu combo... well definetly have to by tomorrow though at the latest, because come tuesday the sale will be over

if i have any more questions though, ill be sure to post back :) , everyone has been very helpful
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November 5, 2006 8:41:08 PM

Quote:
if you run it at stock, and how can you possibly run 200mhz ram in 1:1 with a 266fsb, just to get it to run @ 1:1 you're gonna have to oc the crap out of that ram


you don't HAVE to run at 1:1,
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November 5, 2006 8:42:54 PM

Quote:
definetly cool, thank you :) ... so a jump from 1.86 to ~2.4 is definetly significant then, considering the motherboard and ram in use


if you are thinking about the Asrock for OC, don't. it'll top out at about 285 (I've got one), i can get it to 300-310, but not prime stable.

Its not an overclocking board, you'll be dissappointed if thats what you are looking for.
November 5, 2006 8:45:54 PM

nah, not the asrock... its the ecs p4m800pro-m v2
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November 5, 2006 8:48:15 PM

No comment on that one, are you sure its C2D, I looked at 3 boards and one wasn't C2D and one wasn't AGP+PCI-E. Asrock worked for me.
November 5, 2006 8:52:30 PM

it is... the combo is for an e6300 + ecs p4m800pro... its only agp also, but more than likely only the IGP will be used anyhow (he has an old ti4200 hes using, but the passive heatsink will take up one of the 3 pci slots if he was to use it)... but hes not gaming anyhow, so the IGP should be more than sufficient
a c 79 à CPUs
a b V Motherboard
a b K Overclocking
November 5, 2006 8:57:39 PM

sounds like a sensible solution.

Getting fed up of the 'cannots' being spouted about C2D and DDR, it works, its not that slow, reviews show it as being quite good. And it saved me £100 on the mobo and £200 on the RAM as I already had 2Gb of DDR400. £300 saving sounds like a good deal to me.
November 6, 2006 12:42:50 AM

Quote:
it is... the combo is for an e6300 + ecs p4m800pro... its only agp also, but more than likely only the IGP will be used anyhow (he has an old ti4200 hes using, but the passive heatsink will take up one of the 3 pci slots if he was to use it)... but hes not gaming anyhow, so the IGP should be more than sufficient


It's a good deal at Fry's. You basically get the mobo for free--and it works fine. It's nothing fancy but it'll get you started on the Core 2 bandwagon. Heck $170 (mobo+CPU) is cheaper than the CPU itself from a lot of online retailers.
November 6, 2006 12:57:44 AM

yep, my point exactly :) ... frys is selling combo even cheaper than they sell the cpu for... cheaper by $12 at any rate... tax is about $12-13, which coincidentally brings the price back up to about what the cpu by itself would be, again, lol (though without tax included)

hes having second thoughts about it though... so ill have to see what happens... ...he wont be getting a gift certificate to frys until wednesday for his bday, and the sale ends tuesday... *shrug*
November 6, 2006 2:30:52 AM

It'll probably be even cheaper come Friday :) 
November 6, 2006 2:31:51 AM

thatd be nice lol
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