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Need quiet PSU, must handle G80/R600

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November 5, 2006 3:26:12 PM

I've read the PSU guide to familiarize myself with some particulars as far as 12V rails, etc, and I'm looking for a decent PSU that will handle a DX10 card and good CPU overclocking, but it must also be rather quiet.

I know the final power specs aren't released for the DX10 cards, but the tentative results over at DailyTech indicate they're not as bad as originally thought. Am looking at a Thermaltake Armor Jr/Aguila case since I need something mid-tower.

Suggestions as to quality PSU that's relatively quiet? I'm thinking of getting 600W, that should do the trick according to DailyTech specs. Here are my options so far, feel free to critique or offer new suggestions in various prices ranges. Best overall reviews for efficiency and noise are below (must be available in Canada):

-OCZ GameXstream 600W
-Seasonic M12 or S12 600W
-Enermax Liberty

Enermax is pretty expensive but top notch in efficiency, etc.
OCZ extremely efficient but dunno about noise
Seasonic is rumored to be virtually silent but am concerned about efficiency and output.


Any of you experts here have some advice/suggestions? I'd greatly appreciate any input.

Thanks.
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
November 5, 2006 5:25:32 PM

The Corsair 620 is highly rated and should do the trick. It seem to be quiet.

The Seasonic are really nice piece of hardware, they're extremly quiet, but apparently they get noisy when they reach ~500W of load, wich I dont expect you should reach but still something to keep in mind. And also they actually have 2 Rails with something like 36Amps on each and a 48Amps combined(for the 600W) that should be enough for any DX10 card!

OCZ:
Quote:
It's obvious that despite this units light weight that this unit isn't a... well... light weight! It's was amazing how it putted along putting out nearly 700W of power and never really got hot. The voltage stood up, we have active PFC and the efficiency was pretty darn good. The only real problem was the excess ripple which exceed the ATX specification. If FSP and OCZ can get together and solve this problem, they'll have a power supply that all other manufacturers will have to use as a benchmark.


Enermax

Overall I would go with Corsair/Seasonic/ Enermax seem pretty good too
a b ) Power supply
November 5, 2006 9:54:08 PM

Quote:
The Corsair 620 is highly rated and should do the trick. It seem to be quiet.

The Seasonic are really nice piece of hardware, they're extremly quiet, but apparently they get noisy when they reach ~500W of load, wich I dont expect you should reach but still something to keep in mind. And also they actually have 2 Rails with something like 36Amps on each and a 48Amps combined(for the 600W) that should be enough for any DX10 card!


The Cosair is basically a rebadged Seasonic M12. Seasonic is my preferred PSU manufacturer.
Related resources
November 5, 2006 11:24:33 PM

I actually read that about Corsair.

The Thermaltake Toughpower rates quite well and is affordable, but is apparently louder too.

What about the Enermax Liberty? Not cheap, but highly rated. Is it quiet?


Thoughts?
a b ) Power supply
November 5, 2006 11:39:55 PM

The Eneramx Liberty is fair in terms of noise according to the following reveiw from www.silentpcreview.com:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article279-page4.html

They stopped measuring the dBA at a 200w load because the PSU became too loud at that point, 30dBA.

Seasonic S12 PSUs are quieter which is why I bought my Seasonic S12 500 last summer:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article247-page4.html

At a load of 250w the noise was measured at 28dBA.

I was considering the Enermax Liberty as well, but decided to drop it from my list because of there wasn't a review for it at the time I was buying a PSU. Although Seasonic is relatively expensive, they are the PSUs I recommend if you can fit it into your budget.
a b ) Power supply
November 5, 2006 11:46:03 PM

Here is review of the Seasonic M12 700 (modular), it is quite expensive, but it is even quieter than the Seasonic S12 series:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article676-page5.html

Definitely not for the faint of heart, or a tight budget. But I actually may consider a M12 for my next HTPC if they make one that is less than 400w.
November 6, 2006 12:02:12 AM

Well, I was thinking that dropping an extra $50 isn't much on the total system cost, and should last me a long time. My first couple of builds have been on the cheap, but I have some quality parts for my next build and would like to put something together that corrects some of my past "mistakes"......one of which is a good and quiet PSU. I'd rather drop the extra $50 than get a piece of garbage that's noisy and unstable ;) 

Seasonic M12 is looking good, I must admit :D  Not sure if I'll need the 700W though, may go with the 600W, but will have to confirm after the 8800GTX specs/reviews are released.....
November 6, 2006 1:14:58 AM

Quote:
Here is review of the Seasonic M12 700 (modular), it is quite expensive, but it is even quieter than the Seasonic S12 series


Yikes! 46dB at a 600 watt load for the M12 700. The highest spl for the S12 550/650 was 43dB.
a b ) Power supply
November 6, 2006 1:30:32 AM

Quote:
Here is review of the Seasonic M12 700 (modular), it is quite expensive, but it is even quieter than the Seasonic S12 series


Yikes! 46dB at a 600 watt load for the M12 700. The highest spl for the S12 550/650 was 43dB.

Oh.

I didn't read the reviews of the new Seasonic S12 Energy Plus Series.
a b ) Power supply
November 6, 2006 1:33:44 AM

Quote:
Here is review of the Seasonic M12 700 (modular), it is quite expensive, but it is even quieter than the Seasonic S12 series


Yikes! 46dB at a 600 watt load for the M12 700. The highest spl for the S12 550/650 was 43dB.

Oh.

I didn't read the reviews of the new Seasonic S12 Energy Plus Series.

Still, Seasonic makes some of the quietest if not the quiest PSU with fans.
November 6, 2006 1:42:12 AM

Quote:
Here is review of the Seasonic M12 700 (modular), it is quite expensive, but it is even quieter than the Seasonic S12 series


Yikes! 46dB at a 600 watt load for the M12 700. The highest spl for the S12 550/650 was 43dB.

Oh.

I didn't read the reviews of the new Seasonic S12 Energy Plus Series.

I don't know the Seasonic units from personal experience but have been trying to find all the info I can. They look to be excellent. I was surprised at the SPLs because they are known for quiet operation. I've measured over a 600 watt load on my game box but only when the graphics cards are OC'ed near their max so they would probably drown out a 46dB PS. Some folks diss the OCZ/FSP/mushkin units for their ripple under load but I've got four of them and they are very stable under a big load, like 50-60mV. And the mushkins are very quiet - but like the Seasonics, they aren't cheap.
November 6, 2006 2:00:58 AM

Quote:
Still, Seasonic makes some of the quietest if not the quiest PSU with fans.



Hey, have you seen the JonnyGuru review of the M12 700? Interesting comments on the non-quad rail design and also the temperature/spl discussion. For some stuff, I think SPCR is a decent source but I look elsewhere for gaming, performance or overclocking rig info.
November 6, 2006 4:34:02 AM

Hey, if you want to future proof your computer and not have to upgrade your PSU for the next 3-5 years, you have to go with the best. And the best is PC Power & Cooling. I have the Silencer 750 and it has absolutely no noise! It is also one of the most efficient power supplies on the planet. Check out the website here: www.pcpowerandcooling.com. It may cost you $200 bucks, but the power savings, silence, and longevity of this unit is worth it in the end.
November 6, 2006 11:53:06 AM

Only Johnny talked about the GameXStream's ripple, while a lot of other review sites said it was fine... not sure if the unit he got had issues or other review sites made a mistake, but I still consider the GameXStream a top tier PSU...

However, browsing through some of the reviews, they all said that the fan worked well, but was fairly noticeble... don't know how that compares to the Seasonic or Enermax though...
a b ) Power supply
November 6, 2006 2:23:15 PM

Quote:

Hey, have you seen the JonnyGuru review of the M12 700? Interesting comments on the non-quad rail design and also the temperature/spl discussion. For some stuff, I think SPCR is a decent source but I look elsewhere for gaming, performance or overclocking rig info.


Interesting... I agree with Johnny that the lable should be updated since it is not a true 12v quad rail design. I actually didn't know that the M12 has a 60mm fan in it. That would explain the louder than norm noise for a Seasonic PSU.

SPCR's main focus is silence and quality build. They don't really do game performance testing. Overclocking isn't a major topic at SPCR because that generally creates more noise. However, there are several threading in the forum about mild overclocks with silence in mind.
November 6, 2006 3:25:13 PM

Well I see OCZ gets some great reviews, and I know JonnyGURU is the guru and extremely thorough. I also doubt that I'd be pushing my system so hard that ripple would cause problems.....I mean, all those other users can't be wrong, no?

I figure a C2D that's OC'd, an 880GTX, 2 hard drives, and a few LED case fans would be my draw......I assume a 600W PSU wouldn't have to stretch very hard to push those components.

The OCZ is also signficantly less expensive than the other options. Now, I don't mind dropping an extra $50 for something "better", but then I would expect it to be really quiet or something to be worth the extra. Otherwise, why would I bother? I'd rather put the money into something else.

The S12 and GameXstream are looking like good options at this point.....
November 6, 2006 4:27:42 PM

Quote:
Only Johnny talked about the GameXStream's ripple, while a lot of other review sites said it was fine... not sure if the unit he got had issues or other review sites made a mistake, but I still consider the GameXStream a top tier PSU...


Agreed. I've looked at stability and ripple on just one GamEx but three mushkin 650s. The ripple at moderate load on the mushkins were clearly lower than the OCZ but the OCZ was only 80 to 90mV PTP typically at 400 watts. People talk about those two, the FSP and the PCP&C being made at the same factory, but if you look inside, you do see some differences, like caps and a few details. But my GamEx has handled the load well - I typically just have a stock clock 1800XT in it but have run two 1900XTs OC'ed to ~700GPU/820RAM, 4400+ at 2.6, 2 opticals, 5 HDs, RAID card, sound card, etc. No problems, no sagging voltages.
November 6, 2006 5:34:37 PM

Wow, that's pretty impressive. I'm looking at an OC'd C2D, 2 HDDs, maybe an 8800GTX and a few LED fans. The 600W GXS should handle that I would think?

It looks like the Seasonic Energy S12 series is newer and improved on the "old" S12 series, so it's looking like the S12 and OCZ are the contenders. Big difference in price though........wonder about the noise difference? S12 gets rave reviews there.......can the OCZ compete?
November 6, 2006 5:57:51 PM

Worse comes to worse, you can try a PSU baffle, but that would be up to you... 600W should be fine for what your doing, just don't go SLI... I'm going 700W myself, but I'm not even sure if that will be enough for SLI + TEC cooler...

The OCZ... doesn't seem obnoxiously loud, it's probably average soundwise, guess it depends on how quiet you want it and if your willing to pay that much for the extra quietness..
November 6, 2006 6:14:25 PM

Quote:
Wow, that's pretty impressive. I'm looking at an OC'd C2D, 2 HDDs, maybe an 8800GTX and a few LED fans. The 600W GXS should handle that I would think?

It looks like the Seasonic Energy S12 series is newer and improved on the "old" S12 series, so it's looking like the S12 and OCZ are the contenders. Big difference in price though........wonder about the noise difference? S12 gets rave reviews there.......can the OCZ compete?


That GPU will run at around 300 watts under load at stock clock. I don't have any idea if the DX10 cards will have much OC headroom anyway. Depending on which C2D and how much OC, you will probably be around 100 watts under load, give or take. So under a big load, you'll be looking a little over 400 watts, maybe 450. The S12 should handle that fine but at that point, it will no longer be real quiet. I'm betting it will be playing second fiddle to the 8800 though.
November 6, 2006 6:40:55 PM

LOL true enough, I suspect the 8800 won't be much of a whisper ;) 

The OCZ seems like a great deal for the performance though.....I guess the 600W would do fine, don't plan on SLI/CF so that should work.
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
November 6, 2006 6:50:53 PM

Apparently it is!!!
Thread

Ok maybe not whisper but apparently its pretty quiet!
November 6, 2006 6:55:13 PM

Well my 7900GTO is silent and runs cool.....so if the 8800 can come close then I'm impressed. Might also make aftermarket VGA coolers not-so-necessary ;) 

Either way, it looks like 600W will do the trick no problem. Seasonic....OCZ.....expensive......affordable.......

Choices, choices :?
November 6, 2006 6:55:54 PM

Hot damn those are some nice scores and pics... and the wattage doesn't seem that high also...
a b ) Power supply
November 6, 2006 7:27:44 PM

Quote:
Wow, that's pretty impressive. I'm looking at an OC'd C2D, 2 HDDs, maybe an 8800GTX and a few LED fans. The 600W GXS should handle that I would think?


This is my estimate of the power consumption on the 12v rails:

E6700 @ 4.0GHz............................................96w CPU Power Consumption Chart *
GeForce 8800GTX..........................................175w **
2 300GB Hard drives........................................40w
4 LED 120mm fans...........................................28w
DVD Burner.....................................................14w

Total Power Consumption on 12v rails...............353w

Total Amp Consumption on 12v rails..................29.4a

* For every increase of 0.27GHz assume an increase of 7w of power consumption. That's based on the xbitlabs' data.

** I read somewhere that the GeForce 8800 requires 450w PSU. Since the GTX version is more powerful, I will assume a minimum of a 500w PSU. Since ATI and nVidia do not know exactly what components are in each PC they make very conservative power supply recommendations. I will make a very conservative estimate and say that it draws 175w of power under full load. I'm very confident that it will consume less than that though, but I'll have to wait until www.xbitlabs.com does a power consumption test on it.

Under full load I estimate this beast to consume 29.4 (or 353w = 12v x 29.4a) amps on the 12v rails. As a safety margin I would recommend a PSU that can provide at least 34 amps on the 12v rails.
November 6, 2006 10:36:36 PM

You, Sir........rock :)  I really appreciate you taking the time to do the calcs.

A 600W quality PSU would therefore be more than sufficient. I figure even a 500W would be fine, but I'd rather be safe and have some headroom ;) 

And the PSUs that I'm looking at (OCZ GXS and the Seasonic Energy S12) should easily push enough amps on the 12V rail(s).

Looks like I'm good to go, just gotta pick one :D 
November 7, 2006 12:00:58 AM

Very optimistic about reaching 4Ghz, hope you have phase cooling.
a b ) Power supply
November 7, 2006 1:02:08 AM

Quote:
Very optimistic about reaching 4Ghz, hope you have phase cooling.


I'm just using it as an example in my power calculations to show that a PSU that can deliver at least 30 amps on the 12v rail should be enough for a highly overclocked C2D and a 8800GTX.

Like I stated in my post, I don't think the 8800GTX will consume 175w of power. But I won't know for sure until www.xbitlabs.com does a review.
November 7, 2006 12:02:37 PM

Yeah, but remember combined 12v amps is theoretical, likely you can get a constant amperage that is much less, for instance, the Enermax Liberty gives a combined rating of 36a, which is still maximum most probably.

It depends on the amp load on the 12v, maybe 600 watts will be enough, but I doubt it. Depends on overclock, hard drive load, etc...

most reviewers aren't going into this much detail, most PSU companies give max ratings, and not constant, so you probably want to be safe and buy 100watts over what you think you need, and you should still add up the 12v amp requirements. Quad-rail systems just introduce more inefficiency on the 12v, so take that into consideration too...
November 7, 2006 12:22:45 PM

Hard drive takes 10W each, an overclock probably won't eat up more than 50W...

Each rail can handle up to 18A... so 12V * 18A ~ 216W which should be more than enough for the 8800GTX (from the linked thread, it looks like it pulls somewhere around 120W under load, which is way less than the 216W...

Now I know it says on the spec sheet the maximum wattage should not exceed 580W across all the rails (600W GameXStream) but each rail should be able to power its individual components without a problem. Yes, there is total wattage of the +12V rails, but one rail, which would go to another SLI card will be totally unused, so he'll have plenty of amps for the remaining 3 12V rails, and no worries of overstressing the PSU...

And the brand name PSU's deliver constant power at their max ratings, some of them can even deliver past their max ratings. Just see Johnny Guru's review sites...
a b ) Power supply
November 7, 2006 12:34:35 PM

Quote:
Yeah, but remember combined 12v amps is theoretical, likely you can get a constant amperage that is much less, for instance, the Enermax Liberty gives a combined rating of 36a, which is still maximum most probably.


The amperage on the Seasonic PSUs can be combined. The most important information is on the sticker of the PSU. If you look at the Seasonic S12 500 sticker it will say 17 amps on 12v1 and 16 amps on 12v2 which combines to 33 amps. Nothing out of the ordinary there many manufacturers who has PSU stickers that will provide the max amps on each individual 12v rail.

However, if you look below the 17 and 16 amps, the sticker will say the max wattage on the 12v rails is 396w. 33 amps = 396w / 12v. That's the information to look for.
a b ) Power supply
November 7, 2006 12:39:55 PM

Quote:
Hard drive takes 10W each, an overclock probably won't eat up more than 50W...


Actually, hard drives takes more than 10w depending on the RPM and size of the hard drive. I can't seem to find the article that showed power consumption, but consumption based on that article I'm trying to find ranges from 16w to 40w on the 12v rail. They also draw power from the 5v rail to power the read/write heads.
a b ) Power supply
November 7, 2006 12:43:25 PM

Quote:

most reviewers aren't going into this much detail, most PSU companies give max ratings, and not constant, so you probably want to be safe and buy 100watts over what you think you need, and you should still add up the 12v amp requirements. Quad-rail systems just introduce more inefficiency on the 12v, so take that into consideration too...


Which is why I recommend Seasonic PSUs. They are rated for constant power, not peak power.
November 7, 2006 2:18:01 PM

Quote:
Like I stated in my post, I don't think the 8800GTX will consume 175w of power. But I won't know for sure until www.xbitlabs.com does a review.


I won't be at all surprised if it goes over 175w. If I go for max clock on my 1900XT at 1.42v, it draws around 150w. If nvidia can generate all that graphics computing power and only draw ~25w more than my card, they are really on to something. Can't wait to see the ATI counter product.
a b ) Power supply
November 7, 2006 2:37:17 PM

Quote:

I won't be at all surprised if it goes over 175w. If I go for max clock on my 1900XT at 1.42v, it draws around 150w. If nvidia can generate all that graphics computing power and only draw ~25w more than my card, they are really on to something. Can't wait to see the ATI counter product.


Well traditionally, nVidia's GPUs draws less power than ATI's GPUs:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/power-no...

Of course traditions are made to be broken.

Although the X1900XT isn't listed, at stock speed it consumes about 109w of power. I'm guessing the 8800GTX will use about the same power as the GeForce 7950 GX2 which are basically two GPUs combine. Like I said before, I'm waiting on www.xbitlabs.com to do a review and measure the power draw.
November 7, 2006 2:51:06 PM

Quote:
Well traditionally, nVidia's GPUs draws less power than ATI's GPUs:


Sure, but this isn't a traditional GPU. The benches I've seen are way beyond the 1950 and 7950 and I'm assuming power consumption is part of the equation.

Quote:
Although the X1900XT isn't listed, at stock speed it consumes about 109w of power.


That seems to be a reasonable estimate. If I have only the XFire master card in and measure total wall current, then add a second 1900XT at stock clock, wall current goes up about 150 watts, so if the PS is at 78% efficiency, that would put the 1900XT at about 120 watts. As you run the core V and clock up, the power consumption curve looks exponential.

Quote:
I'm guessing the 8800GTX will use about the same power as the GeForce 7950 GX2 which are basically two GPUs combine.


If that is correct, I'll be amazed. Sure, new arch can give better efficiency and all, but to make such a huge advance with no extra power consumption would boggle the mind. And why would nvidia add the second PCI-e power connector if the 8800 drew the same current as the 7950?

Quote:
Like I said before, I'm waiting on www.xbitlabs.com to do a review and measure the power draw.


Yep, it's a wait and see. I've got a 20 that sez the 8800 draws more than the 7950.
a b ) Power supply
November 7, 2006 3:09:06 PM

All I know is that I'm staying away from the first generation DX10 GPUs. First I recenty dropped $300 for my X1900XT 512MB GPU. Second, the next generation will hopefully draw less power.

In one article from Anandtech they reported that according to "reliable sources" the 2nd generation DX10 GPUs will require less power because the 1st generation DX10 GPUs is an attempt to push the new technology out the door as soon as possible.

I hope those "reliable sources" are the engineers.
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
November 7, 2006 3:59:54 PM



From Coolaler 8800GTX with a QX6700... he states ~140W for the craphix card alone.

Thread is on xtremesystems.org if your wondering...
November 7, 2006 5:03:09 PM

Quote:


From Coolaler 8800GTX with a QX6700... he states ~140W for the craphix card alone.

Thread is on xtremesystems.org if your wondering...


Yes, I've been following that, along with the mind-bending benches. Note that Coolaler posted the image and Viktor posted that the card drew 140 watts. Not sure where he got the number. So why have two PCI-e power connectors for a 140 watt card? Doesn't make sense.
November 7, 2006 5:08:20 PM

Quote:
All I know is that I'm staying away from the first generation DX10 GPUs. First I recenty dropped $300 for my X1900XT 512MB GPU. Second, the next generation will hopefully draw less power.

In one article from Anandtech they reported that according to "reliable sources" the 2nd generation DX10 GPUs will require less power because the 1st generation DX10 GPUs is an attempt to push the new technology out the door as soon as possible.

I hope those "reliable sources" are the engineers.


I hear that. Our first DX10 will probably go in our older kid's game box. He's intent on having a Vista OS so that's the obvious box to get one for but like you, I intend to wait a while. His PC has a 1900XT that will run 700/825 stable so it's not like he's hurting for more FPS. Patience = more advice to learn from + lower prices. I'm all over that.
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
November 7, 2006 5:15:35 PM

Good point, I still victor has a fe 8800 himself!

I think the point of the two connectors is not to overload multiple rails PSU. You can put 2 rails on the card! so even PSU with ~12 amps on each rail can run it with other stuff attached to it.

Thats pure speculation...
November 7, 2006 5:48:07 PM

Sorry I didn't read everyone elses posts so if I repeat what someone said I apologize.

Have you considered going higher than 600w just in case you want to go SLI in the future?

If SLI is not an option later then the ones you listed are good PSUs and should handle what you propose.

I am leaning towards the OCZ personally based on reviews and the fact I just bought a Gamextream 700W recently too. I've tested it in my current rig and seems very solid and stable. Its intended for my q6700/8800gtx build tho.

Enermax I've heard pretty good things about too, either sounds like a good investment.
November 7, 2006 5:51:49 PM

I believe you're correct on that labbby. The purpose of the two power connectors is not so much to provide nuclear level power as it is to give enough amperes for the card to run stable.

Even a lot of really good quality PSUs only have 20A on the 12v rails so a card recommended at 30A or even a little more like the stats I've seen on 8800GTX will need to be split between two rails. :) 
November 7, 2006 6:23:50 PM

uh... 140W/12V is only a bit more than 11A....

which begs the question why nVidia recommends 800W for two GTX's?

I'll give them 200W per GTX (which is 60W more than what people are seeing, but until reviews come out tomorrow, going to give them the benefit of the doubt)... I can't see the rest of the system taking over 200W no matter how much crap you stick in there... so thats 600W

Well, I guess 800W to be conservative, but I feel a good 700W PSU can run two GTX in SLI without a problem...

Imma still wait for R600 news!
a b ) Power supply
November 7, 2006 6:59:44 PM

Quote:
uh... 140W/12V is only a bit more than 11A....

which begs the question why nVidia recommends 800W for two GTX's?



nVidia is being very conservative because they do not know exactly what components you have in your PC. For example the X6800 only uses 66w of power, but the Pentium D 820 consumes 145w. Assuming 140w for a 8800GTX is accruate then having the P D820 and two 8800GTXs will draw 425w on the 12v rail.

Toss in some fans, and a few hard drives and a DVD drive or two and you will slowly see the power requirements on the 12v rail go up. Plus, you don't want to max out the load on the PSU either, so give a little headroom for that as well.
Anonymous
a b ) Power supply
November 7, 2006 7:03:35 PM

And the simple fact that whit 800W, they know even if it's not a Top tier 1, it will be enough, trying to cover their ass...

On a side note, 200W would be a good ballpark figure with some overhead to be on the safe side. Plus if you OC you might get there ...
November 7, 2006 7:34:13 PM

Quote:
uh... 140W/12V is only a bit more than 11A....

which begs the question why nVidia recommends 800W for two GTX's?

I'll give them 200W per GTX (which is 60W more than what people are seeing, but until reviews come out tomorrow, going to give them the benefit of the doubt)... I can't see the rest of the system taking over 200W no matter how much crap you stick in there... so thats 600W


Exactly. Dual PCI-e's just do not make sense for a 140 watt card, period. Add another 40 watts from OC'ing it and still most performance power supplies should handle it fine on one power cord. Man alive, if they put four of those monster GPUs in a 4x4, imagine all the PCI-e power cords - not even the big PCP&C has that many!
!