Second Take: Spore's DRM Problem

[stemnin]

Video: http://www.tomsgames.com/us/videos/second_take_spore_s_drm_problem.html

Sorry, you guys are too slow.

Will Crysis Warhead have the same securom? (limited activations?)

Luckily Fallout 3, and Far Cry 2 aren't published by EA. I love the C&C series (both series, excluding Generals), I've swallowed some tough pills before, but the buck stops here (and my cash to EA). After Fallout 3 and Far Cry 2 (among other titles, Left 4 Dead, ooh yeah), we can look forward to some great gaming with Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3. It's sad that I won't be able to share my time between Red Alert and Starcraft, like the good old days. Well I guess i'll finally have time to play Sins of a Solar Empire I've bought 4 months ago.

 

[battousai831]

Its too bad, I was fully ready to buy spore until i heard about its damn DRM issues. I was pumped for red alert 3 but it seems I'm going to have to go with out on that too :/

I've never been an EA fan, quite honestly I've always disliked them. I think there a terrible company. On that note i still buy some of their better games.

 

[kosmos]

Stemnin, All future EA games will have SecuROM.

 

[stemnin]

Stemnin, All future EA games will have SecuROM.

Yeah, Warhead will have it, but i've read one source that said no limited activations. That's the big thing for me. I buy my games and keep them for years (still have 32 Sega Genesis games), and PC games from the 90s. They might release patches later on that'll remove the activations, but that's a big IF. Especially if this is about the resale market.

 

[kosmos]

I wouldnt purchase a game based on the premise that they might allow me perhaps at some point in the future, to use it beyond the artificial limitations imposed.

No, far simpler to make a stand and say no more of this crap, after 15 years of being a hardcore PC gamer from Wing commander III right up to now I will be re-evaluating the PC as a gaming platform, no matter what my decision is regarding that, no matter whatever format I move to next I will never buy an EA game from this point forward.

 

[organix]

SECUrom (secure rom? secular rom?) rears its ugly head yet again. This is one of those situations that just isn't going to go away on its own. PC games suffer from piracy, and as such it's only right that game publishers find a way to protect their IP, but there simply has to be a better way.

When I purchased BIOshock, well after the release mind you, I was concerned about the drm, but not overly concerned. Two months out, after only having dabbled in the game, thanks to an incurable TF2 addiction, my system had suffered from irreparable vista crashes, most due to various nvidia drivers. When I decided to reinstall the game a month or so after my last vista install I got a big surprise, a nice "screw you" from the securom software. Calling up 2k didn't help since I had misplaced my manual ... and after all how hard would it be for someone to claim that they had lost their manual and needed a new key. Fortunately I found my manual a few weeks back, and was so happy that I played through the entire game in a few sittings, quite fun actually. But did the drm on bioshock protect 2k's IP? Not even close. If I was motivated/angry enough to dl the bioshock torrent, or trusted anything cracked (I also suffer from incurable pc paranoia), I would have been up and running a few hours after that failed install. What then is the solution to the problem facing developers for the pc? I don't really know.

Some things I like about securom
Online activation - I know a lot of people have cited this as a point of contention with securom's drm, but I really don't see this as a problem. A one time activation, or even a per-install activation, is fine by me. In my opinion, and it is just my opinion, if you don't have an internet connection for whatever reason then your pc is a wasted investment. Maybe you missed a payment and had your connection shut off, well stop playing games and get a job, or at least learn to be more responsible. If financial hardship is the reason someone can't activate their drm'ed game well, tough. If you buy a car without being able to afford gas, how does that happen anyway?, then you're just giving yourself the shaft.

-- well that's actually the only thing I like about securom, and I guess that makes it the only viable solution, in my eyes at least, to protect one's IP on the pc. I could see using per-install activations as the means for keeping people honest. If securom wants to make a better product this is what they need to do; do away with limited installs, and rely solely on online activation to keep people honest. What they need to do is make your key work only once, and then force you, that's right the consumer is going to have to do a little bit of work here, to write down a new number every time you install the game. This new number would be required for the next installation of the game, although it shouldn't necessarily interfere with concurrent installations. Instructions would be simple, during the online verification process the user would be instructed to write down a new number in their instruction manual, which would of course have pages dedicated to this purpose only. When/if the user had to reinstall the game, the new number would be entered when prompted. I know that this method isn't perfect, and that it would require some actual work on securom's end to store everyone's licenses, but it's a far better system than the one currently in place. Since you still need the disc to play the game concurrent installations shouldn't undermine the security of the game.

What do you think, anyone else have any ideas as to how drm could be improved?

 

[kosmos]

SecuROM is not a solution. There is a reason why Music companies are abnadoning DRM as a method of controlling the distribution of music. DRM does not work.

SecuROM does not work because it does not protect the companies IP this has been very plainly demonstrated, time, and time, and time again. About the best non-invasive platform I've seen so far is Steam, I can re-format my computer, I can buy as many machines as I want and I can install and play all my games as often and frequently as I like thanks to Steam. And Steam is by no means a perfect solution but its light years ahead of SecuROM.

Securom does not limit you to three installations, it limits you to three activations. And hardware forms a major component of this. Hardcore PC gamers frequently upgrade their PC's, the computer I'm using today will be very different from the one I use in 6 months, because I'm going to buy a new Video card, and a new sound card and I also want more memory.

Any one of those is enough to change the hardware profile of my computer thus de-activating the game. But heres the thing, no one at EA will divulge exactly what will cause the games to de-activate. Am I supposed to stop upgrading my PC so that I dont lose an activation token? Is that reasonable?

I upgrade my computer twice a year, and I mean seriously upgrade. Because thanks to companies like EA the envelope for gaming on the PC keeps getting pushed, as do the requirements. Games like Crysis warhead and RA3 are targetted at the hardcore gamers, too bad that market wont purchase those games because we know that within a year or less (due to upgrades) we wont be able to play the very software we've bought.

DRM only punishes the customer because it completely fails to protect the IP underneath. Its not a great sales pitch buy this product for $50 and you can activate it 3 times, or download it for nothing and do whatever like with it. Spore was available DRM free on torrent before the game was even released. All the other SecuROM DRM measures for other games have been broken. SecuROM does not appear to present a challenge to hackers, so why even bother? Why anger your customer base afterall they dont have to buy the software do they? You should never pirate software because that activity harms us all and lends credence to the argument presented by the likes of EA.

I prefer a simple solution I'm simply not going to buy or play an EA game from this point on. This is an extremely easy decision to make. Oh and dont bother downloading the demos of EA games because they have securom embeeded in them too.

 

[CannedTurkey]

The last EA title I bought was Pro Street, I've purchased all the NFS titles since Porsche Unleashed. It was the only franchise they had that I gave a damn about, not because they were necessarily the perfect racing games, but fun in their own right.

I was excited to play Spore, I had been following it for quite a while, but when they announced the activation limit I knew I could never support it. Until they change their policies, they'll never see another dollar from me. I don't pirate software, I don't bit-torrent anything, and if I feel the NFS bug in the future I'll load up Underground 2... I can still do that as many times as I want.

 

[jeverson]

Well I'm certainly glad I canceled my pre-order of Crysis: Warhead. I would have been totally peeved to have that BS on my system. Someone should start a class action suit against this sort of thing. We beat the music industry when it came to DRM. We can beat this!

Hey EA! For shame...

Maybe we'll get lucky and Google will buy out EA to get into the game industry and set things strait

 

[dbreton]

Its kinda funny because Securom is actually causing EA to lose money.

There are really only three types of customers here.

1. People willing to download pirated versions of the game.
2. People who will not buy the game b/c they do not agree with the limitations Securom enforces or do not want a rootkit on their machine(I fall into this category)
3. People who will buy the game regardless.

Groups 1 and 3 and completely unaffected by Securom (the cracked versions are out almost as soon as the game is and in this case before the game).


So by adding Securom EA has not gained any revenue but is actually losing revenue because of it. They may make up some revenue by hindering the resale market, but there will be issues with that(I'm pretty sure that it violates some copyright laws). Also, as more people have issues with Securom, more and more customers will move from group 3 to group 2.

I don't think its as big of a deal as some people are making it. The people who should really be worried are EA stock holders. If the company continues these type of practices they will just lose more and more market share.

 

[gimpy1]

Companies are not stupid. As was said in the Second Take video, the crack for spore was available before the game was released. Therefore EA knows DRM is not going to curb piracy. My guess is that the re-install limit is to force real gamers to buy more games. People play good video games for years after the release. When we upgrade our hardware and have to reinstall, the DRM limits will force us to abandon old titles and spend money on new ones. By the time a video card comes out that can truly handle a game like Crysis, we will have used up our activations and will buy EA's latest.

I have always been against software piracy. I feel that if someone goes through the work of creating a great product, they should be paid for its use. But if I spend my money on a product I expect to be able to use it without limit. Perhaps its time to dig up that old Duke Nukem' 3D disk and pass on Crysis Warhead.

 

[Reynod]

EA doesn't need to resort to this sort of protection for their games.

I bought it.

Now i am looking at trying to make sure it doesn't stuff up the OS on my kids PC.

Also, a rootkit can enable the manufacturer to bypass security protocols on our computers and upload information about us to the company.

I don't like the idea that when I purchase a commercial game I am somehow giving EA permission to "hack" my computer and violate my privacy.

A company is made up of individuals ... heaven help us if one of them is able to use the source code in the rootkit to somehow hack into our computers and steal our personal and banking information ... among other things.

I suppose at the very least I will have to deal with annoying popups again and other unsolicited advertising.

EA just lost my vote of confidence.

Some Zergs must have infected managment at EA.

 

[organix]

I agree with Kosmos that DRM does not work. DRM is, ideally, supposed to prevent 3rd parties from replicating, altering, distributing copyrighted digital content, and securom doesn't really prevent this. I also agree that a Steam-like system would work better, but this system isn't flawless either. I've played numerous steam games in China running on completely bogus accounts that were not tied to valve. The last time I was there WoW was all the rage too, but all it takes to play that game is to register a username at an unofficial site and then you can log in to the Chinese "bootleg" servers.

The point I'm trying to make is that no DRM is foolproof. Companies trying to protect their IP's have to decide how to go about doing so, and sometimes - as in the case of EA and securom - those companies make bad decisions. Then again look at this situation from EA's perspective. Securom will prevent the "average" consumer from copying and distributing their game. EA knows that when it comes to cracking games, where there's a will there's a way, so they've probably surrendered to the inevitability of this fact and instead concentrated on one share of the market where securom will be effective; the "average joe". For me it ultimately comes down to this; is the game itself worth playing, and therefore buying? In the case of Spore, I would say unequivocally yes. Do I have serious concerns regarding the securom software and it's strict end user limitations? Without a doubt, yes. As things stand we as gamers have a handful of options; turn to illegal piracy for the Spore experience, boycott the game, or buy it and worry about the potential of future problems with activating/installing the game.

 

[Christopher1]

I will buy this thing.... but as soon as I do: it's crack hunting time, in all honesty. I have cracks for EVERY SINGLE LEGALLY BOUGHT GAME I HAVE, except Diablo II, which recently REMOVED the DRM (it just needed the CD in the drive).

DRM doesn't keep anyone from pirating the game if they really want to do that... and knowing that, it is simply time to make DRM illegal. It is not about keeping people from pirating the games, people: it is about limiting the resale market and making it so that people have to buy more than one copy of their legally bought product.

That is how it was with music DRM, that is how it is with game DRM, that is how it is with ANY DRM.

Oh, and as to this stopping the 'average Joe' OrGanix......... even my FATHER knows how to search for game cracks, because I showed him how to. After he had a bad experience with one game I bought that hosed our computer, he INSISTED that I find a crack that would disable the DRM before he would allow me to install it on our computer again (it was our only one at that time).

To reiterate a point people: it is time to make DRM ILLEGAL. Get off your asses, contact your representatives in Congress and at the state level (little known fact: state laws can be HARSHER than federal laws), and start telling them how you feel about DRM like this crap called SecuROM.

 

[dark_knight33]

Ben & Rob, you've come along way in the production of your videos. I just watched this, and I think you've done an awesome job all around. The new large format player rocks! I like how you switch out the background posters from time to time too, my favorite so far is the Grindhouse poster however.

You had mentioned that the securom activation limit isn't in the EULA. If it's not in the agreement, doesn't that make it illegal? If I'm not agreeing to have it installed on my system (by way of the infamous EULA) , and the game installs it anyway, isn't that considered spyware behavior?

Once again, great topic, great production. Your on camera performance has definitely improved. Thanks for putting this video out.

 

[Reynod]

I agree.

Do more of these little videos and put them up.

Try to relax a bit more and try not to be so serious.

Dress up ... wear some bling ... talk 1337.

Mebbe not ...

Just don't put basebal hats on backwards ...
unless you punch each over and then take them off.

 

[bf2142-rules-ok]

Good Video chaps. Interesting topic.Tis my 5 minutes of Zen.
Thanks for the heads up on CRYSIS WARHEAD. Was on my hit list for autumn.Not anymore. Roll on Far Cry 2.

 

[Herra]

Crysis Warhead comes to Steam, by the way, so that's good news for anyone looking forward to that game and not looking forward to more securom. Obviously Steam has it's own problems (regional locks, regional pricing), but they are the fault of third party publishers rather than the platform itself.

Too bad that RA3 is still going to have it, and that probably means that after I buy my copy, I'm going to have to wait for the crack so I can actually play it securom free.

 

[impar]

Greetings!

Crysis Warhead comes to Steam, by the way, so that's good news for anyone looking forward to that game and not looking forward to more securom.

Warhead Steam version can come with Securom.
Remember Bioshock Steam version? It had the same DRM as the retail version plus the one in Steam.


Warhead has online authentication, read the manual:
http://store.steampowered.com/manual/17330/

So anyone buying Warhead will be able to install the game, as long the authentication servers work.
So, EA will close the servers in what? 3-4 years time?

 

[Tankfox22]

This is getting out of hand. Is this a big plot to finally kill PC gaming? Or is this just a cruel joke on us hardcore gamers that have been loyally buying games since we were young?

If EA is solely looking at eliminating the second hand market this will work, and the more I think about it, this is the only conclusion I have. Think about it, everyone that wanted to play Half Life 2 had to buy a new copy, so EA tried to copy Steam with its own platform, which I don't believe ever took off. So the only way they have to make sure that everyone that wants a copy of a game buys one new is to stick this DRM in there. And if someone goes to reinstall the game and it locks up, when they call for another key, EA can choose not to give another activation, and if the game is on the bargain bin, say at $19.99, if someone just wants to play the game again they buy it again. Multiply that little scenario tens of thousands of times and that's a lot of income.

 

[impar]

Greetings!

This is getting out of hand. Is this a big plot to finally kill PC gaming?

- Electronic Arts Tries to Kill PC Gaming
- Spore DRM could kill PC gaming

 

[randomizer]

The new large format player rocks!

Amen to that! It now allows me to seek correctly, and it show the correct total time. The old player could do neither most of the time.

 

[TheKurrgan]

Having a unique perspective from a network/system security point of view, I can only offer my opinion and hope someone finds it informative, useless, or at least humorous.

Security:
Security comes in two froms, REAL security, and perceived security.
75% of all security in corporations of any size, is perceived, and not real. From my travels, I've observed that most companies operate with a lawyer (Actually this is a team of people, consisting of risk analysis, loss prevention, etc.. mostly a play on paper from what I can see) on one shoulder, and a Marketing spin doctor on the other. The "lawyers" often given advice that is completely devoid of technical insight and some times give advice and recommendations to companies who PAY THEM to do this, that is neither accurate or some times not even possible to carry out. Thus, begins the long strain of memo's and email, text messages and phone calls until some firm who's whole purpose is to prey on this, takes up a RFI to create a new security bit to protect software, music, video, etc.
Having known people who work for these firms as programmers, they'll tell you that this is almost all moot, and is for appearances only, since they KNOW it is beatable.
Its all done to make people feel warm and fuzzy. So, it is my opinion game manufacturers put this in under the advice of some team of lawyers (as defined above) thinking they have made the right decision and that the risk analysis provided will in fact impact their bottom line, but only by not incurring a potential liability (Er, accountants have a word for it, I forget such hooplah as it is unimportant to me)
Thus numbers look good and they give the order.
Sounds stupid right? It is.
The TRUTH is, DRM does nothing (At least towards its actual intention). Any person who speaks english as a native language will run circles around the poor off shore phone monkey, and weasel fairly effortlessly more activations at no end.
DRM in general is quite useless on most mediums, thus my only conclusion is that it's corporate ape dung at is most retarded.

Frankly for me, all it does is cause hassle, as to play games typically requires the CD to be in the drive. I personally dont really care, since I have a computer designed for gaming I dub a "super-console" since it does that one thing and that one thing only. (Thus it tends NOT to break nor require OS reinstalls, however I am the exception rather than the rule)
Any one remember when Sony made an "un-copyable" cd? Millions of dollars of research, destroyed by a kid with a 50 cent magic marker. (Too bad you cant fire a dude more than once uh Sony?)
As you can see, brilliance abounds.
KICKER: With Microsoft's brilliance that is Vista, and the poor Q&A of the typical home line of machine available from most OEM's, this DRM waste of time is likely to bite more and more people in the ass. So eventually, it will become more trouble for companies to use DRM than it is worth. (The music industry is JUST NOW getting this clue, as it is impossible to stop copying of audio)
However, until that day comes, we'll all just have to deal with it, in whatever way we currently do.
Arg, </Ramble>

 

[Herra]

Greetings!

Warhead Steam version can come with Securom.
Remember Bioshock Steam version? It had the same DRM as the retail version plus the one in Steam.


Warhead has online authentication, read the manual:
http://store.steampowered.com/manual/17330/

So anyone buying Warhead will be able to install the game, as long the authentication servers work.
So, EA will close the servers in what? 3-4 years time?

I wouldn't judge anything based on what it says on that manual. It's obviously a catch-all manual and tries to deal with retail, ea store and other online distributors at the same time, who knows which part applies to which version. Call me skeptic or something.

 

[Dogsnake]

Oh DRM, DRM if only that was what this is about. Don't you read the other forums or check EA support? This was the first game I bought in ages. Figured I could afford it for the family and have access to updates and whatever with no hassles. The software is broken. It won't allow registration or account creation. So no online content is possible. EA has no fix or time frame for one. I am not sure they know what the problem is. Their support forum has had over 5,000 posts in the first week the game was on the market.

The game is crippled. I am sure they knew they were going to have problems but they put it out for sale anyway. As for securom what do I care, I can remove it completely with no problems when I am done with the game. Yes completely so that if I reinstall I can use the game over again just like the first time.

Since EA has offered no support, the store I bought from says copyright laws prevent open software from being returned for refund and I am tired of the family asking when they will be able to play Spore online with friends, I have referred the matter to my states Atty. Gen. and the consumer fraud division of his office. An attorney has been assigned and they are gathering facts to see if their getting involved is indicated.