Urgent - System Purchase Decision!

[xfiles7]

Greetings,

I would appreciate if anyone with sound knowledge could reply to below question.

1) BRANDED or ASSEMBLED Like BOXX has special workstations for 3dsmax but they are not available in India as per my information and have to be imported.
http://www.boxxtech.com/Products/3DBOXX/3DBOXX.asp
Second option in Branded is DELL
http://www1.ap.dell.com/content/products/c...;l=en&s=bsd
Any idea about shipping charges?

2) Apart from the model I enquired, if anyone has better option Please provide me ref for entry level desktop to work station in DELL,IBM and HP for applications to be executed such as Autodesk’s 3dsMAX .


3) INTEL or AMD ?????

4) NVIDIA or ATI

5) My budget currently is $2500-3000 , but a system which can be upgraded later will always be preferred.


I have to take decision in this week.

Regards
XFILES

 

[almerac]

Greetings,

I would appreciate if anyone with sound knowledge could reply to below question.

1) BRANDED or ASSEMBLED Like BOXX has special workstations for 3dsmax but they are not available in India as per my information and have to be imported.
http://www.boxxtech.com/Products/3DBOXX/3DBOXX.asp
Second option in Branded is DELL
http://www1.ap.dell.com/content/products/c...;l=en&s=bsd
Any idea about shipping charges?

2) Apart from the model I enquired, if anyone has better option Please provide me ref for entry level desktop to work station in DELL,IBM and HP for applications to be executed such as Autodesk’s 3dsMAX .


3) INTEL or AMD ?????

4) NVIDIA or ATI

5) My budget currently is $2500-3000 , but a system which can be upgraded later will always be preferred.


I have to take decision in this week.

Regards
XFILES

1. no idea about shipping charges, but they will probably be a bit high if its international.

2. you could build your own, and likely for cheaper.

3. a core 2 duo, or quadro. (intel)

4. Nvidia quadro series graphics card, and a good one too.

5. defiantly doable on 3 grand (American?), as well as upgradability. do you need just a tower or a complete system?

i looked at both of your links and didn't get any real info..... you don't really need a xeon tho, or registered ram. i think you should build your own. this is my suggestion

core duo 2 6600 or core 2 quadro 6700

geforce quadro FX (will be hard to get into the budget expect to sink almost a grand into this alone, go for the most onboard ram and highest model that fits your budget)

a good quality LGA 775 motherboard (i don't keep up on chipsets sry)

2GB-4GB DDR-800

hard drives, monitor, peripherals, case and PSU. i will leave to other forum members that keep up on that sort of thing.

if your not building your own. then just as a rule of thumb, if your going for assembled, make sure it has a geforce quadro FX
a core 2/xeon(woodcrest), and lot of ram. those things are what will get you the most for your money with a CAD setup.

 

[xfiles7]

A very prompt reply.

i would still like to get few doubts clarified.


1) no idea about shipping charges, but they will probably be a bit high if its international.
Xfiles: is it possible if you can give some idea if you belong to the same place

2. you could build your own, and likely for cheaper.
Xfiles: BRANDED or ASSEMBLED : everyone says that Branded system are performance benchmarked , what is your say on this.


3. a core 2 duo, or quadro. (intel)
Xfiles: Noted

4. Nvidia quadro series graphics card, and a good one too.
Xfiles: Suggest which can suit my budget.

5. defiantly doable on 3 grand (American?), as well as upgradability. do you need just a tower or a complete system?
Xfiles: I want complete system.
provide me ref for entry level desktop to work station in DELL,IBM and HP for applications to be executed such as Autodesk’s 3dsMAX .

As you are aware my budget currently is $2500-3000 , but a system which can be upgraded later will always be preferred. IF could list out a complete package.

Regards
XFILES

 

[almerac]

A very prompt reply.

i would still like to get few doubts clarified.


1) no idea about shipping charges, but they will probably be a bit high if its international.
Xfiles: is it possible if you can give some idea if you belong to the same place


2. you could build your own, and likely for cheaper.
Xfiles: BRANDED or ASSEMBLED : everyone says that Branded system are performance benchmarked , what is your say on this.


3. a core 2 duo, or quadro. (intel)
Xfiles: Noted

4. Nvidia quadro series graphics card, and a good one too.
Xfiles: Suggest which can suit my budget.

5. defiantly doable on 3 grand (American?), as well as upgradability. do you need just a tower or a complete system?
Xfiles: I want complete system.
provide me ref for entry level desktop to work station in DELL,IBM and HP for applications to be executed such as Autodesk’s 3dsMAX .

As you are aware my budget currently is $2500-3000 , but a system which can be upgraded later will always be preferred. IF could list out a complete package.

Regards
XFILES

1b no im sry, i live in the US.

2b branded/assembled/ or home build, they are all made of the same parts. if you buy a branded/assembled system, then buy the exact same parts individually and put them together, they will all perform the same.

4b. i am looking at the moment, mind you im looking at sites that don't ship internationally. but so far anything that is a quadro FX3000 or higher would well suit your needs.

5b ok that is doable. you will have to wait for other forum members to respond for exact parts on the things i don't keep up with (LCD's, PSU's and such). there is little to worry about tho, because once you have decided your motherboard, CPU, video, card and ram. little else will have an impact on performance. there are probably some assembled/branded systems that you can get that will have what you want. again tho i don't keep up on those kinds of things. but i will keep looking.

also be aware that its nearly 5AM where i am, but im a bit of a night owl :lol:

 

[apt403]

Agreed. With our budget, a system built yourself would:
a) run better
b) be of higher quality as you select all the parts
c) avoids talking to some dude in India who most likely is up way past his bedtime (as I am now ).

All the items above, Intel right now has the best, most efficient CPU on the market, if you get an E6400 or higher, you will pretty much be out performing AMD's best (6400 matches or exceeds the 5000+, beating even an FX-62 in some apps).

Jack

well he pretty much sums everything up right there, build your own system, because at $3000 (im assuming $3000 USD since $3000 in indian rupee's would come out to about 67 bucks here) any pre-build system is a rip off, im guessing about 25% for the assembly and getting there brand name, just put that money towards a better CPU or more RAM. like you jumping jack im up way to late. (it's 3:00AM and i need to be up in 4 hours! i guess i got caught up reading the ghosts of onyx sadly im addicted to everything halo...)

EDIT: almerac beat me to the post and he says its 5 in the morning, what are we all doing posting on a hardware forum at 3:00AM+ in the morning?! i for one wonder where my life had gone...

 

[xfiles7]

I think as of my budget an assembled system will be anytime better.


4b. i am looking at the moment, mind you im looking at sites that don't ship internationally. but so far anything that is a quadro FX3000 or higher would well suit your needs.

XFILES: BOXX and Dell both has representative in India but buying from US and getting it shipped to India is more reasonable then buying over here.

Dell
http://www1.ap.dell.com/content/default.aspx?c=in&l=en&s=gen

http://www.boxxtech.com/Ecosystem/resellers.asp
BOXX International resellers located in India

BOXX ME/A
1203/9B, MHB Bldg. Powai Mumbai 400076 India
Website: http://www.boxxmea.com
Contact Person: Mr. Bejoy George
Phone: +97150-4545586
Email: bejoy@boxxmea.com

I have emailed the above address but no reply so far.


XFILES; Configuration :

CPU: Dual Woodcrest dual core Xeon 2GHz (total 4 cores)
or
Intel Core 2 Duo 6700 CPU ( do suggest)

RAM: 2GB FBDIMM DDR2 667 REG ECC

Motherboard not very sure yet)
Intel S5000XVN workstation MB (this is best to be used with Intel SC5299WS chassis)

Graphics Card :
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1500 256MB
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1500 256MB Pro Video Edition
NVIDIA Quadro FX 3500 256MB
NVIDIA Quadro FX 3450 256MB G-DDR3
ATI FireGL V5200 256 MB
ATI FireGL V7200 256 MB

Hard Disc:
120GB 7,200rpm SATA 8MB Cache
250GB 7,200rpm SATA 8MB Cache
150GB 10,000rpm SATA 16MB Cache
160GB Serial ATA RAID 0 Array (2x 80GB 7,200rpm)
120GB Serial ATA RAID 1 Array (2x 120GB 7,200rpm)

I know its very late you need to get soem rest but keep posting.
And you being in US is great to find the shipping charges Since they have toll free numbers for US people.

 

[xfiles7]

Jack

whats your view on the last post ??
any suggestions?

xfiles

 

[almerac]

EDIT: almerac beat me to the post and he says its 5 in the morning, what are we all doing posting on a hardware forum at 3:00AM+ in the morning?! i for one wonder where my life had gone...[/quote]

hahah how true, i have no life outside work and oblivion anyways.

off of that note

ok i have looked and dell has some nice offerings, that would get you a core 2 quadro 6700, a nvidia quadro FX 3500, 2GB of ram, 19" LCD, 320GB HDD, in a full tower, with windows. everything included for under 3 grand. you will have to customize it yourself, but here is the linkage (not counting shipping tho)
http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/precn_390?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04

just checked IBM, they had one that fit the bill in every way but a monitor and in price.

here are HP's offerings, sry but i don't have the spirit to navigate that at the moment http://h20331.www2.hp.com/Hpsub/cache/286858-0-0-225-121.html

of all of them i think building your own, and the dell offering are best.

 

[apt403]

im no expert on workstation class graphic cards so i cant give much advice there, for the kind of work your doing a C2D or C2Q will suffice but i think that the dual woodcrests would give you a noticable increase in power though and if there in your budget you should spring for those. the woodcrests only accept FB-DIMM's and those are noticably more expensive than the DDR2 stick that the C2D/Q's take but looking at your list it looks like youve already got that convered.

EDIT: well ive got my one witty quote in for the day, and it looks like almerac is more knowagable on this subject than i, so i'll be heading into the land of dreams now, goodnight (or morning)

 

[almerac]

XFILES; Configuration :

CPU: Dual Woodcrest dual core Xeon 2GHz (total 4 cores)
or
Intel Core 2 Duo 6700 CPU ( do suggest)[/quote]

definitely the core 2 duo 6700, you will save on ram, and it will operated better then 2 separate processors.

[/quote]
RAM: 2GB FBDIMM DDR2 667 REG ECC
[/quote]

this is a decent amount of ram and will do fine, altho you wont need buffered/registered/ECC dimms with the 6700(normal DDR2 dimms will be ok), you will need them if you opt for a dual processor xeon build, this will add to the price significantly. just a consideration.

[/quote]
Graphics Card :
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1500 256MB
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1500 256MB Pro Video Edition
NVIDIA Quadro FX 3500 256MB
NVIDIA Quadro FX 3450 256MB G-DDR3
ATI FireGL V5200 256 MB
ATI FireGL V7200 256 MB
[/quote]

the 3500, or 3450 should be fine, dont go for a FireGL, they aren't bad cards, but nvidia Quadros are just better, especially with openGL applications.


[/quote]
Hard Disc:
120GB 7,200rpm SATA 8MB Cache
250GB 7,200rpm SATA 8MB Cache
150GB 10,000rpm SATA 16MB Cache
160GB Serial ATA RAID 0 Array (2x 80GB 7,200rpm)
120GB Serial ATA RAID 1 Array (2x 120GB 7,200rpm)
[/quote]

depending on what your doing, raid may or may not matter. simply put, if you move alot of large files often (IE 500MB files at least) you will benefit alot from a raid setup. but at the moment i would be more concerned about space. i would opt for at least a 250GB HDD. i just got a Seagate 250GB HDD (perpendicular flavor) and im happy with it. not much to choose in hard drives really. just space and speed. and with a CAD setup, space should be first, speed should be second. i would recommend to find one with a 16MB cache if possible. and you can always buy another and raid them later for more speed.

 

[almerac]

sry i will clarify on why a single processor will work better.

first off its less data that has to be transferred across the FSB (in between the two processors), who's bandwidth is actually being challenged by Core 2 quadros.

secondly, it (Q6700) has a local level 3 cache, so all four cores will need less context changes to do the same amount of work (higher IPC's), as well as all that data not having to go across the FSB.

and thirdly, buffered ECC dimms are expensive and slower then equivalent unbuffered dimms. and not needed for CAD work. so saving money, on ram that is faster per clock compared to buffered ram, is a good idea.

fourthly when you buy two processors you have to buy twice as much ram. each processor has its own ram. so if you buy 2GB each one will only get 1GB. that on top of buffered ram makes for a very expensive mix

thats just about it. mostly its just having more bandwidth, and higher IPC's because the cores are on the same die, and the fact that buffered ram is simply not a terribly good idea on most CAD setups.

 

[save_the_P4]

2500-3000$?? Go quadcore.

 

[xfiles7]

I will make it to the point so you can get a better understanding .

I want the system for applications to be executed such as Autodesk’s 3dsMAX . Maya if needed.
Multi cores that are slow is pointless especially if we want to model scenes and render only infrequently. If we want to render often, then multi core systems are great. High frequency Core 2 Duo is better than low frequency Xeon, if we want to work interactively with Max mostly. However, Xeon systems like Opteon systems have some benefits when it comes to interconnects between system components... but the Core 2 Duo is generally quite good enough for entry level systems.


I want to use this system for atleast 2 years if not more.
So i can a few get a higher frequency processors later and make the system faster. But not all higher freqency processors may be compatible with the system so better to plan out now.

Budget is $2500 to 3000.

Please recommend a complete system.

 

[Dante_Jose_Cuervo]

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this. The woodcrest xeons actually have a dedicated FSB or DIB (dual independent bus) for each CPU so that makes for FSB 1333X2. Now I will agree with you about the more expensive ram, that goes without question, but I work with well...workstations... and I'll be the first to tell you that xeons are great for stuff like 3dsmax. As for the bandwidth, it's quad-channel memory so if you get 2GB ram (4x512MB) each CPU will get 2 dedicated channels. Now for a quad-core CPU, intel's solution is basically like a Pentium D 965 (only much faster) in that the 2 conroe cores are separated by the FSB. Buffered ram on CAD, doesn't really make a difference in my experience (which isn't too much, but hey, it still helps). Although the CAS latency on the FB-DIMMs is going to be at least 4 you'd think that it would slow down performance, not true, it's the whole serial connection of the FB-DIMMs that helps nulify the high latency.

 

[Ponk]

Depends what you're gonna use it for. When you've discovoered your requirements then you can choose a spec...From the options provided I would recommend the following:

1) Assemble it yourself! WOuldn't recommend buying one from a shop or company. It just doesn't cut it in both terms of performance or the satisfaction of building a system yourself.
N.B. Unsure of shipping charges, you'll have to find that out for yourself. WOuldn't really recommend dell, they're made in about 5 minutes and takes that long to break them! Their after sales service is next to nothing.

3) Would recommend Intel. Poss not the quad yet (nothing uses it's resources or functions yet...Had the term for it but forgot it)
Duo would be adequate. the E6300 can be OC'd quite a bit, couple that with a decent water cooling unit and you'll have a nice machine.

4) Nvidia now have the 8800, but would choose ATI. They'll beat Nvidia when they're new GPU comes out.

5) With $3000-$2500 to play with you can get nearly anything, but based on you questions I would recommend this. But would like more information on what you'll be using it for (assume games, but would like to confirm)

 

[xfiles7]

I want the system for applications to be executed such as Autodesk’s 3dsMAX . Maya if needed. Not games but to model scenes and render Architectural walkthoughs , use Combustion etc.

 

[Dante_Jose_Cuervo]

If I were you, I'd go with like dual Xeon 5140s. Now I know they do have a lower clockspeed but trust me, they're fast. Really fast. As for the graphics, quadro 3450 is a good card for the money. I use Maya and I'll tell you that having 2 CPUs is much better than 1.

 

[xfiles7]

Modeling is single threaded in Max. Single fast processor is preferred.
Rendering is mostly multi threaded. Multiple processors is preferred, faster is always better.
Viewport performance (interactivity with the scene) is dictated by Video Card first and processor second, so you decide what you want with viewport.
Memory is already reasonable at 2GB for entry level.

But still confused about processor and motherboard / chasis .
Dual Woodcrest dual core Xeon
Intel Core 2 Duo 6700 CPU


Graphics card :
NVIDIA Quadro FX 3500 256MB
NVIDIA Quadro FX 3450 256MB G-DDR3

 

[Dante_Jose_Cuervo]

Ahh... that would explain it.. Wow, well then I'd have to say you should go for a Core 2 duo 6700, but your rendering might suffer a little hit since it's multi-threaded. This is a good question... hmm... maybe some of these other guys can help you with this. Now for the GPU, go for the 3450.

 

[13thmonkey]

c) avoids talking to some dude in India who most likely is up way past his bedtime (as I am now ).

Jack, he is in india.

 

[almerac]

Modeling is single threaded in Max. Single fast processor is preferred.
Rendering is mostly multi threaded. Multiple processors is preferred, faster is always better.
Viewport performance (interactivity with the scene) is dictated by Video Card first and processor second, so you decide what you want with viewport.
Memory is already reasonable at 2GB for entry level.

But still confused about processor and motherboard / chasis .
Dual Woodcrest dual core Xeon
Intel Core 2 Duo 6700 CPU


Graphics card :
NVIDIA Quadro FX 3500 256MB
NVIDIA Quadro FX 3450 256MB G-DDR3

ok. if your not in terrible need of multi threaded power all the time, and need single thread power most of the time, then defiantly go with the core 2, either the quadro or a a duo of faster clock speeds, which is basically the core 2 duo 6800. the quad core WILL future proof you however. all apps are going towards multiple threads, and as that migration continues, you will actually see more improvement out of the quad core, over time. granted, right now, in single thread apps, the quad cores efficiency per core is almost quartered as you add another core (IE adding another core, to a two core system will lead to a 1/4 improvement in single threaded apps, roughly. another will increase it another 1/8, again rough estimate, but its just the point that indeed in single threaded apps multiple cores is not useful). that efficiency will rise drastically as time goes on and apps start using more threads. and you will see it actually be able to do things faster then it can now, when apps like max go multi threaded.
sry that was kinda long.

and for the ram, if for no other reason then price, normal DDR2 will allow you to get more performance for your money, considering that you will be kinda strained, because those video cards are from $500-$1500 (for the FX4500 on the high end), and any processor setup that involves 4 physical cores is going to come near a grand itself . and thats only two components. but they are the two that will denote the most performance for your money.

for the video card, whichever one fits the budget better, both are good, and if i were deadlocked i would pick the higher model number.

 

[sillywabbit]

c) avoids talking to some dude in India who most likely is up way past his bedtime (as I am now ).

Lol Jack. I think you missed part the OP post: "1) BRANDED or ASSEMBLED Like BOXX has special workstations for 3dsmax but they are not available in India as per my information and have to be imported. "

 

[xfiles7]

I have decided to go for ZEON but ahve to decide from the below now and if someone can recomment cahsis for the same.
Intel Xeon (Dual Core @ 3.73GHz)
Intel's Core 2 Quadro Kentfield
Intel xeon 5080 series
Intel xeon 5100 series (Woodcrest)
Dual Woodcrest dual core Xeon 2GHz (total 4 cores)


Graphics card : I will buy any of the one from below.
NVIDIA Quadro FX 3500 256MB
NVIDIA Quadro FX 3450 256MB G-DDR3

Hard Disc:
SATA 3.0Gb/s 10K RPM with 16MB DataBurst CacheTM up to 160GB4( if i get higher capacity lthen I will go for it.) or later buy one more .

RAM:
2 GB Capacity as of now.

 

[xfiles7]

Thanx now i am coming to some conclusions::

CPU: DUAL XEON Woodcrest 2.6GHz or higher,
RAM: 2GB RAM in 1GB sticks
HDD: Hitachi /Fujitsu / Seagate ( SATA 3.0Gb/s 10K RPM with 16MB DataBurst CacheTM up to 160GB4 and later buy one more
Graphics Card:
• NVIDIA Quadro FX3500 or higher OR
• FireGL V7200 or higher(FireGL is faster in wireframe usually).

What about server chasis ?

Regards
Manali

 

[save_the_P4]

http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/11/08/dell_quad_core_systems/

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/09/10/four_cores_on_the_rampage/page11.html

Check the 3dsmax rendering charts, and don't miss the quadcore times. If you are doing animation, you could cut by at least 30% rendering times, depending on the processor speed. I would try some configurations at dell, just to make an idea of the prices. And good luck.

Hey Dante Jose Cuervo, what would you reccomend:

Xeon E5320 1.86Ghz or QX6700 2.66Ghz?? I ask this after reading your good comments about xeons, though I think I would chose the QX6700...

Thanx