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Urgent - System Purchase Decision!

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November 9, 2006 8:17:09 AM

Greetings,

I would appreciate if anyone with sound knowledge could reply to below question.

1) BRANDED or ASSEMBLED Like BOXX has special workstations for 3dsmax but they are not available in India as per my information and have to be imported.
http://www.boxxtech.com/Products/3DBOXX/3DBOXX.asp
Second option in Branded is DELL
http://www1.ap.dell.com/content/products/c...;l=en&s=bsd
Any idea about shipping charges?

2) Apart from the model I enquired, if anyone has better option Please provide me ref for entry level desktop to work station in DELL,IBM and HP for applications to be executed such as Autodesk’s 3dsMAX .


3) INTEL or AMD ?????

4) NVIDIA or ATI

5) My budget currently is $2500-3000 , but a system which can be upgraded later will always be preferred.


I have to take decision in this week.

Regards
XFILES
November 9, 2006 8:28:51 AM

Quote:
Greetings,

I would appreciate if anyone with sound knowledge could reply to below question.

1) BRANDED or ASSEMBLED Like BOXX has special workstations for 3dsmax but they are not available in India as per my information and have to be imported.
http://www.boxxtech.com/Products/3DBOXX/3DBOXX.asp
Second option in Branded is DELL
http://www1.ap.dell.com/content/products/c...;l=en&s=bsd
Any idea about shipping charges?

2) Apart from the model I enquired, if anyone has better option Please provide me ref for entry level desktop to work station in DELL,IBM and HP for applications to be executed such as Autodesk’s 3dsMAX .


3) INTEL or AMD ?????

4) NVIDIA or ATI

5) My budget currently is $2500-3000 , but a system which can be upgraded later will always be preferred.


I have to take decision in this week.

Regards
XFILES


1. no idea about shipping charges, but they will probably be a bit high if its international.

2. you could build your own, and likely for cheaper.

3. a core 2 duo, or quadro. (intel)

4. Nvidia quadro series graphics card, and a good one too.

5. defiantly doable on 3 grand (American?), as well as upgradability. do you need just a tower or a complete system?

i looked at both of your links and didn't get any real info..... you don't really need a xeon tho, or registered ram. i think you should build your own. this is my suggestion

core duo 2 6600 or core 2 quadro 6700

geforce quadro FX (will be hard to get into the budget expect to sink almost a grand into this alone, go for the most onboard ram and highest model that fits your budget)

a good quality LGA 775 motherboard (i don't keep up on chipsets sry)

2GB-4GB DDR-800

hard drives, monitor, peripherals, case and PSU. i will leave to other forum members that keep up on that sort of thing.

if your not building your own. then just as a rule of thumb, if your going for assembled, make sure it has a geforce quadro FX
a core 2/xeon(woodcrest), and lot of ram. those things are what will get you the most for your money with a CAD setup.
November 9, 2006 8:35:56 AM

A very prompt reply. :) 

i would still like to get few doubts clarified.


1) no idea about shipping charges, but they will probably be a bit high if its international.
Xfiles: is it possible if you can give some idea if you belong to the same place:) 

2. you could build your own, and likely for cheaper.
Xfiles: BRANDED or ASSEMBLED : everyone says that Branded system are performance benchmarked , what is your say on this.


3. a core 2 duo, or quadro. (intel)
Xfiles: Noted

4. Nvidia quadro series graphics card, and a good one too.
Xfiles: Suggest which can suit my budget.

5. defiantly doable on 3 grand (American?), as well as upgradability. do you need just a tower or a complete system?
Xfiles: I want complete system.
provide me ref for entry level desktop to work station in DELL,IBM and HP for applications to be executed such as Autodesk’s 3dsMAX .

As you are aware my budget currently is $2500-3000 , but a system which can be upgraded later will always be preferred. IF could list out a complete package.

Regards
XFILES
Related resources
November 9, 2006 8:53:41 AM

Quote:
A very prompt reply. :) 

i would still like to get few doubts clarified.


1) no idea about shipping charges, but they will probably be a bit high if its international.
Xfiles: is it possible if you can give some idea if you belong to the same place:) 


2. you could build your own, and likely for cheaper.
Xfiles: BRANDED or ASSEMBLED : everyone says that Branded system are performance benchmarked , what is your say on this.


3. a core 2 duo, or quadro. (intel)
Xfiles: Noted

4. Nvidia quadro series graphics card, and a good one too.
Xfiles: Suggest which can suit my budget.

5. defiantly doable on 3 grand (American?), as well as upgradability. do you need just a tower or a complete system?
Xfiles: I want complete system.
provide me ref for entry level desktop to work station in DELL,IBM and HP for applications to be executed such as Autodesk’s 3dsMAX .

As you are aware my budget currently is $2500-3000 , but a system which can be upgraded later will always be preferred. IF could list out a complete package.

Regards
XFILES


1b no im sry, i live in the US.

2b branded/assembled/ or home build, they are all made of the same parts. if you buy a branded/assembled system, then buy the exact same parts individually and put them together, they will all perform the same.

4b. i am looking at the moment, mind you im looking at sites that don't ship internationally. but so far anything that is a quadro FX3000 or higher would well suit your needs.

5b ok that is doable. you will have to wait for other forum members to respond for exact parts on the things i don't keep up with (LCD's, PSU's and such). there is little to worry about tho, because once you have decided your motherboard, CPU, video, card and ram. little else will have an impact on performance. there are probably some assembled/branded systems that you can get that will have what you want. again tho i don't keep up on those kinds of things. but i will keep looking.

also be aware that its nearly 5AM where i am, but im a bit of a night owl :lol: 
November 9, 2006 9:00:43 AM

Quote:

Agreed. With our budget, a system built yourself would:
a) run better
b) be of higher quality as you select all the parts
c) avoids talking to some dude in India who most likely is up way past his bedtime (as I am now :)  ).

All the items above, Intel right now has the best, most efficient CPU on the market, if you get an E6400 or higher, you will pretty much be out performing AMD's best (6400 matches or exceeds the 5000+, beating even an FX-62 in some apps).

Jack


well he pretty much sums everything up right there, build your own system, because at $3000 (im assuming $3000 USD since $3000 in indian rupee's would come out to about 67 bucks here) any pre-build system is a rip off, im guessing about 25% for the assembly and getting there brand name, just put that money towards a better CPU or more RAM. like you jumping jack im up way to late. (it's 3:00AM and i need to be up in 4 hours! i guess i got caught up reading the ghosts of onyx sadly im addicted to everything halo...)

EDIT: almerac beat me to the post and he says its 5 in the morning, what are we all doing posting on a hardware forum at 3:00AM+ in the morning?! i for one wonder where my life had gone...
November 9, 2006 9:11:22 AM

I think as of my budget an assembled system will be anytime better.


4b. i am looking at the moment, mind you im looking at sites that don't ship internationally. but so far anything that is a quadro FX3000 or higher would well suit your needs.

XFILES: BOXX and Dell both has representative in India but buying from US and getting it shipped to India is more reasonable then buying over here.

Dell
http://www1.ap.dell.com/content/default.aspx?c=in&l=en&...

http://www.boxxtech.com/Ecosystem/resellers.asp
BOXX International resellers located in India

BOXX ME/A
1203/9B, MHB Bldg. Powai Mumbai 400076 India
Website: http://www.boxxmea.com
Contact Person: Mr. Bejoy George
Phone: +97150-4545586
Email: bejoy@boxxmea.com

I have emailed the above address but no reply so far.


XFILES; Configuration :

CPU: Dual Woodcrest dual core Xeon 2GHz (total 4 cores)
or
Intel Core 2 Duo 6700 CPU ( do suggest)

RAM: 2GB FBDIMM DDR2 667 REG ECC

Motherboard :(  not very sure yet)
Intel S5000XVN workstation MB (this is best to be used with Intel SC5299WS chassis)

Graphics Card :
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1500 256MB
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1500 256MB Pro Video Edition
NVIDIA Quadro FX 3500 256MB
NVIDIA Quadro FX 3450 256MB G-DDR3
ATI FireGL V5200 256 MB
ATI FireGL V7200 256 MB

Hard Disc:
120GB 7,200rpm SATA 8MB Cache
250GB 7,200rpm SATA 8MB Cache
150GB 10,000rpm SATA 16MB Cache
160GB Serial ATA RAID 0 Array (2x 80GB 7,200rpm)
120GB Serial ATA RAID 1 Array (2x 120GB 7,200rpm)

I know its very late you need to get soem rest but keep posting.
And you being in US is great to find the shipping charges:)  Since they have toll free numbers for US people.
November 9, 2006 9:17:10 AM

Jack

whats your view on the last post ??
any suggestions?

xfiles
November 9, 2006 9:24:37 AM

EDIT: almerac beat me to the post and he says its 5 in the morning, what are we all doing posting on a hardware forum at 3:00AM+ in the morning?! i for one wonder where my life had gone...[/quote]

hahah how true, i have no life outside work and oblivion anyways.

off of that note

ok i have looked and dell has some nice offerings, that would get you a core 2 quadro 6700, a nvidia quadro FX 3500, 2GB of ram, 19" LCD, 320GB HDD, in a full tower, with windows. everything included for under 3 grand. you will have to customize it yourself, but here is the linkage (not counting shipping tho)
http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.asp...

just checked IBM, they had one that fit the bill in every way but a monitor and in price.

here are HP's offerings, sry but i don't have the spirit to navigate that at the moment http://h20331.www2.hp.com/Hpsub/cache/286858-0-0-225-12...

of all of them i think building your own, and the dell offering are best.
November 9, 2006 9:25:09 AM

im no expert on workstation class graphic cards so i cant give much advice there, for the kind of work your doing a C2D or C2Q will suffice but i think that the dual woodcrests would give you a noticable increase in power though and if there in your budget you should spring for those. the woodcrests only accept FB-DIMM's and those are noticably more expensive than the DDR2 stick that the C2D/Q's take but looking at your list it looks like youve already got that convered.

EDIT: well ive got my one witty quote in for the day, and it looks like almerac is more knowagable on this subject than i, so i'll be heading into the land of dreams now, goodnight (or morning)
November 9, 2006 9:39:03 AM

XFILES; Configuration :

CPU: Dual Woodcrest dual core Xeon 2GHz (total 4 cores)
or
Intel Core 2 Duo 6700 CPU ( do suggest)[/quote]

definitely the core 2 duo 6700, you will save on ram, and it will operated better then 2 separate processors.

[/quote]
RAM: 2GB FBDIMM DDR2 667 REG ECC
[/quote]

this is a decent amount of ram and will do fine, altho you wont need buffered/registered/ECC dimms with the 6700(normal DDR2 dimms will be ok), you will need them if you opt for a dual processor xeon build, this will add to the price significantly. just a consideration.

[/quote]
Graphics Card :
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1500 256MB
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1500 256MB Pro Video Edition
NVIDIA Quadro FX 3500 256MB
NVIDIA Quadro FX 3450 256MB G-DDR3
ATI FireGL V5200 256 MB
ATI FireGL V7200 256 MB
[/quote]

the 3500, or 3450 should be fine, dont go for a FireGL, they aren't bad cards, but nvidia Quadros are just better, especially with openGL applications.


[/quote]
Hard Disc:
120GB 7,200rpm SATA 8MB Cache
250GB 7,200rpm SATA 8MB Cache
150GB 10,000rpm SATA 16MB Cache
160GB Serial ATA RAID 0 Array (2x 80GB 7,200rpm)
120GB Serial ATA RAID 1 Array (2x 120GB 7,200rpm)
[/quote]

depending on what your doing, raid may or may not matter. simply put, if you move alot of large files often (IE 500MB files at least) you will benefit alot from a raid setup. but at the moment i would be more concerned about space. i would opt for at least a 250GB HDD. i just got a Seagate 250GB HDD (perpendicular flavor) and im happy with it. not much to choose in hard drives really. just space and speed. and with a CAD setup, space should be first, speed should be second. i would recommend to find one with a 16MB cache if possible. and you can always buy another and raid them later for more speed.
November 9, 2006 9:46:08 AM

sry i will clarify on why a single processor will work better.

first off its less data that has to be transferred across the FSB (in between the two processors), who's bandwidth is actually being challenged by Core 2 quadros.

secondly, it (Q6700) has a local level 3 cache, so all four cores will need less context changes to do the same amount of work (higher IPC's), as well as all that data not having to go across the FSB.

and thirdly, buffered ECC dimms are expensive and slower then equivalent unbuffered dimms. and not needed for CAD work. so saving money, on ram that is faster per clock compared to buffered ram, is a good idea.

fourthly when you buy two processors you have to buy twice as much ram. each processor has its own ram. so if you buy 2GB each one will only get 1GB. that on top of buffered ram makes for a very expensive mix

thats just about it. mostly its just having more bandwidth, and higher IPC's because the cores are on the same die, and the fact that buffered ram is simply not a terribly good idea on most CAD setups.
November 9, 2006 9:49:18 AM

2500-3000$?? Go quadcore. :wink:
November 9, 2006 9:55:53 AM

I will make it to the point so you can get a better understanding .

I want the system for applications to be executed such as Autodesk’s 3dsMAX . Maya if needed.
Multi cores that are slow is pointless especially if we want to model scenes and render only infrequently. If we want to render often, then multi core systems are great. High frequency Core 2 Duo is better than low frequency Xeon, if we want to work interactively with Max mostly. However, Xeon systems like Opteon systems have some benefits when it comes to interconnects between system components... but the Core 2 Duo is generally quite good enough for entry level systems.


I want to use this system for atleast 2 years if not more.
So i can a few get a higher frequency processors later and make the system faster. But not all higher freqency processors may be compatible with the system so better to plan out now.

Budget is $2500 to 3000.

Please recommend a complete system.
November 9, 2006 9:59:39 AM

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this. The woodcrest xeons actually have a dedicated FSB or DIB (dual independent bus) for each CPU so that makes for FSB 1333X2. Now I will agree with you about the more expensive ram, that goes without question, but I work with well...workstations... and I'll be the first to tell you that xeons are great for stuff like 3dsmax. As for the bandwidth, it's quad-channel memory so if you get 2GB ram (4x512MB) each CPU will get 2 dedicated channels. Now for a quad-core CPU, intel's solution is basically like a Pentium D 965 (only much faster) in that the 2 conroe cores are separated by the FSB. Buffered ram on CAD, doesn't really make a difference in my experience (which isn't too much, but hey, it still helps). Although the CAS latency on the FB-DIMMs is going to be at least 4 you'd think that it would slow down performance, not true, it's the whole serial connection of the FB-DIMMs that helps nulify the high latency.
November 9, 2006 10:05:27 AM

Depends what you're gonna use it for. When you've discovoered your requirements then you can choose a spec...From the options provided I would recommend the following:

1) Assemble it yourself! WOuldn't recommend buying one from a shop or company. It just doesn't cut it in both terms of performance or the satisfaction of building a system yourself.
N.B. Unsure of shipping charges, you'll have to find that out for yourself. WOuldn't really recommend dell, they're made in about 5 minutes and takes that long to break them! Their after sales service is next to nothing.

3) Would recommend Intel. Poss not the quad yet (nothing uses it's resources or functions yet...Had the term for it but forgot it)
Duo would be adequate. the E6300 can be OC'd quite a bit, couple that with a decent water cooling unit and you'll have a nice machine.

4) Nvidia now have the 8800, but would choose ATI. They'll beat Nvidia when they're new GPU comes out.

5) With $3000-$2500 to play with you can get nearly anything, but based on you questions I would recommend this. But would like more information on what you'll be using it for (assume games, but would like to confirm)
November 9, 2006 10:09:28 AM

I want the system for applications to be executed such as Autodesk’s 3dsMAX . Maya if needed. Not games but to model scenes and render Architectural walkthoughs , use Combustion etc.
November 9, 2006 10:11:48 AM

If I were you, I'd go with like dual Xeon 5140s. Now I know they do have a lower clockspeed but trust me, they're fast. Really fast. As for the graphics, quadro 3450 is a good card for the money. I use Maya and I'll tell you that having 2 CPUs is much better than 1.
November 9, 2006 10:13:36 AM

Modeling is single threaded in Max. Single fast processor is preferred.
Rendering is mostly multi threaded. Multiple processors is preferred, faster is always better.
Viewport performance (interactivity with the scene) is dictated by Video Card first and processor second, so you decide what you want with viewport.
Memory is already reasonable at 2GB for entry level.

But still confused about processor and motherboard / chasis .
Dual Woodcrest dual core Xeon
Intel Core 2 Duo 6700 CPU


Graphics card :
NVIDIA Quadro FX 3500 256MB
NVIDIA Quadro FX 3450 256MB G-DDR3
November 9, 2006 10:18:11 AM

Ahh... that would explain it.. Wow, well then I'd have to say you should go for a Core 2 duo 6700, but your rendering might suffer a little hit since it's multi-threaded. This is a good question... hmm... maybe some of these other guys can help you with this. Now for the GPU, go for the 3450.
a c 79 à CPUs
November 9, 2006 10:23:40 AM

Quote:
c) avoids talking to some dude in India who most likely is up way past his bedtime (as I am now :)  ).


Jack, he is in india.
November 9, 2006 10:32:41 AM

Quote:
Modeling is single threaded in Max. Single fast processor is preferred.
Rendering is mostly multi threaded. Multiple processors is preferred, faster is always better.
Viewport performance (interactivity with the scene) is dictated by Video Card first and processor second, so you decide what you want with viewport.
Memory is already reasonable at 2GB for entry level.

But still confused about processor and motherboard / chasis .
Dual Woodcrest dual core Xeon
Intel Core 2 Duo 6700 CPU


Graphics card :
NVIDIA Quadro FX 3500 256MB
NVIDIA Quadro FX 3450 256MB G-DDR3


ok. if your not in terrible need of multi threaded power all the time, and need single thread power most of the time, then defiantly go with the core 2, either the quadro or a a duo of faster clock speeds, which is basically the core 2 duo 6800. the quad core WILL future proof you however. all apps are going towards multiple threads, and as that migration continues, you will actually see more improvement out of the quad core, over time. granted, right now, in single thread apps, the quad cores efficiency per core is almost quartered as you add another core (IE adding another core, to a two core system will lead to a 1/4 improvement in single threaded apps, roughly. another will increase it another 1/8, again rough estimate, but its just the point that indeed in single threaded apps multiple cores is not useful). that efficiency will rise drastically as time goes on and apps start using more threads. and you will see it actually be able to do things faster then it can now, when apps like max go multi threaded.
sry that was kinda long.

and for the ram, if for no other reason then price, normal DDR2 will allow you to get more performance for your money, considering that you will be kinda strained, because those video cards are from $500-$1500 (for the FX4500 on the high end), and any processor setup that involves 4 physical cores is going to come near a grand itself . and thats only two components. but they are the two that will denote the most performance for your money.

for the video card, whichever one fits the budget better, both are good, and if i were deadlocked i would pick the higher model number.
November 9, 2006 10:37:34 AM

Quote:
c) avoids talking to some dude in India who most likely is up way past his bedtime (as I am now ).


Lol Jack. I think you missed part the OP post: "1) BRANDED or ASSEMBLED Like BOXX has special workstations for 3dsmax but they are not available in India as per my information and have to be imported. "
November 9, 2006 10:53:16 AM

I have decided to go for ZEON but ahve to decide from the below now and if someone can recomment cahsis for the same.
Intel Xeon (Dual Core @ 3.73GHz)
Intel's Core 2 Quadro Kentfield
Intel xeon 5080 series
Intel xeon 5100 series (Woodcrest)
Dual Woodcrest dual core Xeon 2GHz (total 4 cores)


Graphics card : I will buy any of the one from below.
NVIDIA Quadro FX 3500 256MB
NVIDIA Quadro FX 3450 256MB G-DDR3

Hard Disc:
SATA 3.0Gb/s 10K RPM with 16MB DataBurst CacheTM up to 160GB4( if i get higher capacity lthen I will go for it.) or later buy one more .

RAM:
2 GB Capacity as of now.
November 9, 2006 11:51:16 AM

Thanx now i am coming to some conclusions::

CPU: DUAL XEON Woodcrest 2.6GHz or higher,
RAM: 2GB RAM in 1GB sticks
HDD: Hitachi /Fujitsu / Seagate ( SATA 3.0Gb/s 10K RPM with 16MB DataBurst CacheTM up to 160GB4 and later buy one more
Graphics Card:
• NVIDIA Quadro FX3500 or higher OR
• FireGL V7200 or higher(FireGL is faster in wireframe usually).

What about server chasis ?

Regards
Manali
November 9, 2006 12:55:28 PM

http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/11/08/dell_quad_core_systems/

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/09/10/four_cores_on_the_rampage/page11.html

Check the 3dsmax rendering charts, and don't miss the quadcore times. If you are doing animation, you could cut by at least 30% rendering times, depending on the processor speed. I would try some configurations at dell, just to make an idea of the prices. And good luck. :wink:

Hey Dante Jose Cuervo, what would you reccomend:

Xeon E5320 1.86Ghz or QX6700 2.66Ghz?? I ask this after reading your good comments about xeons, though I think I would chose the QX6700...

Thanx
November 10, 2006 5:03:14 AM

HP authorized person dropped in today and he said that in assembled system cooling might be a problem because the branded system are properly tested for the same and the company takes the responsibility and since its a workstation so there will be tremendous heating. I agreed but costing is again on very higher side and i think if i get it assembled from proper person it won't be an issue. ( In between he also said that DELL has problem with the chaiss regarding cooling , what do you think about HP?)

I think assembling is the best option as of now.
I suppose the below will fit in $3000
CPU: dual xeon Woodcrest ( 5XXX series) 2.6ghz or higher,
RAM: 2gb ram in 1gb sticks
HDD: Hitachi /Fujitsu / Seagate/Maxtor ( SATA 3.0gb/s 10k rpm with 16mb data burst cachetm up to 160gb4 and later buy one more
Graphics card:
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1500 256MB Pro Video Edition or NVIDIA Quadro fx3500
FIREGL v7200 or higher (firegl is faster in wireframe usually)
DVD Dual layer writer
Mouse and keyboard.

Still finding out the chassis, motherboard ( 5XXX series) model option for the Woodcrest. Any suggestions?

Regards
Xfiles
November 10, 2006 6:24:27 AM

Graphics card: the quadro 1500 is decent, but id say get a geforce instead. save the money for other things like more ram.
Xfiles: Geforce is good for gaming but Quadro is good for graphical application like 3dsmax so i guess I will still vote for it.


Check now:

CPU: Dual-Core Intel Xeon Processor 5100/5000 sequence (Woodcrest/Dempsey processor)
2.6 GHz/ 3 Hz or higher,

RAM: 2GB RAM in 1GB sticks

HDD:
Western Digital - SATA 10K RPM 36/74/150 GB sizes. OR
Hitachi /Fujitsu / Seagate/Maxtor - 250GB 7,200rpm SATA 16mb data burst cachetm

Graphics Card:
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1500 256MB Pro Video Edition or
NVIDIA Quadro fx3500

DVD Dual layer writer
Mouse and keyboard.

Still finding out the chassis, motherboard ( 5XXX series) model option for the Woodcrest.

Motherboard ( 5XXX series)
Target Segment : Workstation
Intel® 5000X MCH Chipset
http://www.intel.com/products/chipsets/5000x/index.htm

Target Segment : Server
Intel 5000X Chipset
Intel 5000P Chipset
Intel 5000V Chipset

Comparison: ( Any Sugestion)
http://indigo.intel.com/compare_cpu/showchart.aspx?mmID...

http://indigo.intel.com/compare_cpu/showchart.aspx?mmID...

Chassis ( Any Sugestion) ??
http://www.intel.com/products/server/chassis/index.htm?...
SR1400
SR1450
SR1500
Important Chassis Notes
To ensure system stability, a 500W (minimum) ATX power supply
[8-pin (+12V) and 24-pin are required]


Regards
Xfiles
November 10, 2006 7:43:56 AM

Will it be proper if I go for other motherboard options with Intel chipset.
and compatible option in lieu of Intel chassis.
Will it make performance difference ?

Regards
Xfiles7
November 10, 2006 3:26:16 PM

Quote:
Will it be proper if I go for other motherboard options with Intel chipset.
and compatible option in lieu of Intel chassis.
Will it make performance difference ?

Regards
Xfiles7


motherboards have little to do with actual performance. you should choose a motherboard based on compatibility with the parts you want to buy, and with features that you want, as well as the possibility to upgrade in the future. im not sure what you mean by "compatible option in lieu of Intel chassis." if your talking about a case that is has the proper risers and space to accommodate different motherboard types (ATX, BTX, MicroATX ect). then as long as the case states in its specs that it can hold ATX motherboards, and you buy a ATX motherboard then they will work together.

most cases can accommodate all but the most exotic of motherboard layouts. just check to make sure, also tho, most OEM companies (Dell, HP, and such) use at least some propitiatory motherboard layouts in their products, and often it makes it impossible to mount any other kind of motherboard in that case. whatever case you are looking at tho should tell you what motherboards it can hold.
November 11, 2006 7:55:16 AM

motherboards have little to do with actual performance. you should choose a motherboard based on compatibility with the parts you want to buy, and with features that you want, as well as the possibility to upgrade in the future.
Xfiles: Since the processor is Dual-Core Intel Xeon Processor 5100/5000 sequence I have to select the motherboard from ( 5XXX series)
http://www.intel.com/products/chipsets/5000x/index.htm
But was askign if you had better idea.

The below system is almost finalised but yet to get a price ftom the dealer.

CPU: Dual-Core Intel Xeon Processor 5100/5000 sequence (Woodcrest/Dempsey processor)
2.6 GHz/ 3 Hz or higher, 4MB cache, 1.33GHz FSB

RAM: 2GB FBDIMM DDR2 667 REG ECC in 1GB sticks

HDD:
Western Digital - SATA 10K RPM 36/74/150 GB sizes. OR
Hitachi /Fujitsu / Seagate/Maxtor - 250GB 7,200rpm SATA 16mb data burst cachetm

Graphics Card:
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1500 256MB Pro Video Edition or
NVIDIA Quadro FX 3500 256MB ( I think I will have to cancel this its not getting accomodated in $3000 price)

18x Dual Layer DVD±RW Writer
Mouse and keyboard.

Motherboard ( 5XXX series)
Intel® 5000X MCH Chipset
http://www.intel.com/products/chipsets/5000x/index.htm
Xfiles: If someone can suggest any other company's motherboard( like Gigabyte / Mercury ) with Intel chipset and performs equivalent to Intel original Motherboard.

im not sure what you mean by "compatible option in lieu of Intel chassis."

Xfiles: What i meant was like after checking i found below chasis model but they are intel model so i was thinking if any other company's chasis i can use and save the money for other parts.
http://www.intel.com/products/server/chassis/index.htm?...
SR1400
SR1450
SR1500
Important Chassis Notes
To ensure system stability, a 500W (minimum) ATX power supply
[8-pin (+12V) and 24-pin are required]


Regards
Xfiles
November 11, 2006 1:07:16 PM

Quote:

The below system is almost finalised but yet to get a price ftom the dealer.

CPU: Dual-Core Intel Xeon Processor 5100/5000 sequence (Woodcrest/Dempsey processor)
2.6 GHz/ 3 Hz or higher, 4MB cache, 1.33GHz FSB

RAM: 2GB FBDIMM DDR2 667 REG ECC in 1GB sticks

HDD:
Western Digital - SATA 10K RPM 36/74/150 GB sizes. OR
Hitachi /Fujitsu / Seagate/Maxtor - 250GB 7,200rpm SATA 16mb data burst cachetm

Graphics Card:
NVIDIA Quadro FX 1500 256MB Pro Video Edition or
NVIDIA Quadro FX 3500 256MB ( I think I will have to cancel this its not getting accomodated in $3000 price)

18x Dual Layer DVD±RW Writer
Mouse and keyboard.

Motherboard ( 5XXX series)
Intel® 5000X MCH Chipset
http://www.intel.com/products/chipsets/5000x/index.htm
Xfiles: If someone can suggest any other company's motherboard( like Gigabyte / Mercury ) with Intel chipset and performs equivalent to Intel original Motherboard.

im not sure what you mean by "compatible option in lieu of Intel chassis."

Xfiles: What i meant was like after checking i found below chasis model but they are intel model so i was thinking if any other company's chasis i can use and save the money for other parts.
http://www.intel.com/products/server/chassis/index.htm?...
SR1400
SR1450
SR1500
Important Chassis Notes
To ensure system stability, a 500W (minimum) ATX power supply
[8-pin (+12V) and 24-pin are required]


Regards
Xfiles


Get the Xeon 5100 series, whichever fits your budget.

Video: Quadro 1500

Now as for the chassis, which one do you need? Like which one fits the # of hard drives you're going to put in there and whatnot. If I were you I'd go with something that has a little extra space but not too much (not that I can talk, my case has 12 hdd bays, but those are there to hold a few hdds with great breathing room.)
November 13, 2006 1:51:50 AM

oh ok, sry i havent responded earlier. busy week and weekend.

i do most of my shopping off of newegg, and they have some server motherboards, and cases. but i couldn't recommend anyone specifically. what i can recommend, is who to look at for them, tyan. last i checked they make some of the best server motherboards, and they sell them to consumers, not just bulk orders.

those chassis you picked.. they are rack mounts. and not really "comfortable" for desktop use. now i know you live in India so im just linking to newegg to show yo what you should be looking at.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?N=2010200...

you can be picky and make sure the one you pick uses an intel chipset. altho it isn't necessary, and if another chipset has more features, or fits the budget better dont think that it wont work just as well as an intel chipset.

also be advise with your xeons, get woodcrests, they may be a bit slower (in frequency/GHz) then previous xeons, but they have a much higher Instructions per clock ratio. are overall much more powerful in floating point calculations and just generally better then previous core designs. and architecturally speaking are as different from previous xeons, as conroes (core duo 2) are to prescotts (pentium 4's).

all woodcrests use socket LGA 771, and be advised in looking for a tower, most dual processor motherboards are extended ATX or footprint motherboards. so just for space i would get a full sized ATX case like one of these. http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Order=PRI...

now the motherboard you buy, will tell you the PSU you will need. for all this i would recoment at least a good 450 watt preferably 500 watts or better tho. whatever the budget allows.

just a quick question, do you understand all the hordes of different power supplies and what their connectors are used for? or at least enough to know which one you should get once you choose a motherboard.
November 13, 2006 4:37:09 AM

just a quick question, do you understand all the hordes of different power supplies and what their connectors are used for? or at least enough to know which one you should get once you choose a motherboard.
Xfiles:
Not really :) 
if you coudl brief me out I would appreciate it. :) 
November 13, 2006 8:15:00 PM

ok, http://www.motherboards.org/articles/guides/1487_1.html read all of that, it has basically everything you need to know, plus illustrations (something that i could not properly explain to you without).

about the only thing (that i can think of) that you could do totally wrong in your PSU selection, is to choose a motherboard that needs 2 EPS connectors, and you get a PSU that only has one.
November 16, 2006 12:59:22 PM

I have updated the Config as below.

CPU: Dual-Core Intel Xeon 5150 Processor (Woodcrest processor) 2.66 GHz 4MB cache, 1.33GHz FSB

Motherboard: 5000xvnSATA
[/b]
Pedestal Chassis: Intel Server Chassis SC5299-E
POWER SUPPLY: 650-watt PFC Intel validated PSU with integrated cooling fan.

RAM: 2GB FBDIMM DDR2 667 REG ECC in 1GB sticks(Kingston )

HDD: (WD740GD) Raptor SATA Hard Drives 74 GB, Transfer Rates - Buffer To Host (Serial ATA) : 1.5 Gb/s, Buffer Size : 8 MB Cache,
Rotational Speed : 10K RPM
AND
250GB (7200 rpm)

OR

West. Digital (WD1500ADFD) Raptor SATA Hard Drives 150 GB,
Transfer Rates - Buffer To Host (Serial ATA) :
1.5 Gb/s, Buffer Size : 16 MB Cache,
Rotational Speed : 10K RPM

Graphics Card: NVIDIA Quadro FX 3500 256MB

DVD Writer : 18x Dual Layer DVD±RW Writer (Samsung)

Mouse/keyboard : Optical Mouse and keyboard. (Microsoft)

Display:
compatible displays for the above configuration with excellent buffer refresh in 17"
For example:
Dell 2005fpw OR
17" TFT Samsung make OR
17” TFT LG Make


UPS:
APC for the above system


My conclusion:
Since the board I selected “Intel® Workstation Board S5000XVN (SATA)” already supports Six 3Gb/s SATA ports supporting RAID 0, 1, 10 with optional AXXRAKSW5 for RAID 5¹ ,
• I think currently buying 74GB Western Digital Raptor drive 1.5 Gb/s, 8 MB Cache, 10,000 RPM (Rs. 8000) with Western Digital 250 GB 7200 RPM ( Rs. 4000) for Storage would be good idea. And later on if needed I can go for two 74GB Western Digital Raptor drives in a RAID 0 configuration.

OR

• 150 GB Western Digital , 1.5 Gb/s, 16 MB Cache, 10,000 RPM ( Rs. 13,300)

What do you think is a better option ?

Regards
Xfiles
November 16, 2006 4:48:22 PM

Which combination is better : Combination A1 or A2 or B ?????

Combination A1
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
West. Digital (WD740GD) Raptor SATA Hard Drives 74 GB,
Transfer Rates - Buffer To Host (Serial ATA) :1.5 Gb/s,
Buffer Size : 8 MB Cache,
Rotational Speed : 10K RPM

AND

West. Digital - WD RE - (WD2500YS)
SATA Hard Drives 250 GB,
Transfer Rates - Buffer To Host (Serial ATA) : 3.0 Gb/s,
Buffer Size : 16 MB Cache,
Rotational Speed : 7200 RPM

---------------------------------------------------------------
OR
---------------------------------------------------------------

Combination A2
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
West. Digital (WD740GD) Raptor SATA Hard Drives 74 GB,
Transfer Rates - Buffer To Host (Serial ATA) :1.5 Gb/s,
Buffer Size : 8 MB Cache,
Rotational Speed : 10K RPM

AND

West. Digital WD Caviar® SE16(WD2500KS)
SATA Hard Drives 250 GB,
Transfer Rates - Buffer To Host (Serial ATA) : 300 Mb/s,
Buffer Size : 16 MB Cache,
Rotational Speed : 7200 RPM


---------------------------------------------------------------
OR
---------------------------------------------------------------
Combination B
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
West. Digital (WD1500ADFD) Raptor SATA Hard Drives 150 GB,
Transfer Rates - Buffer To Host (Serial ATA) : 1.5 Gb/s,
Buffer Size : 16 MB Cache,
Rotational Speed : 10K RPM

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do i need to go for a HDD Cooler???

Vantec 701A HDD Cooler(Vantec Iceberq HDC-701A-BL Fan Kit)
http://www.techgage.com/article/vantec_701a_hdd_cooler

Tested with 1 WD Raptor 74 GB.
Being a 10,000 RPM HDD, it is bound to get hot. It is recommended to have some kind of HDD cooler installed for this hard disk .

Regards
Xfiles
November 16, 2006 4:54:19 PM

NVIDIA Quadro® FX mid-range graphics products are the industry’s best price performance workstation graphics solutions and provide the optimal blend of quality, precision, performance, programmability for all professional 3D applications including CAD, DCC and visualization applications. Featuring a 256-bit memory interface, and up to 40GB/sec. memory bandwidth, NVIDIA Quadro mid-range products deliver unprecedented segment-leading performance and quality.

NVIDIA Quadro FX 3500
Memory Size : 256MB
Memory Interface : 256-bit
Graphics Memory Bandwidth: 42.2GB/sec.
Graphics Bus : PCI Express

NVIDIA Quadro® high-end graphics solutions are the industry-leading workstation graphics solutions for CAD, DCC and visualization applications. Featuring outstanding performance and quality, NVIDIA Quadro high-end products deliver 256MB frame buffer memory, up to 42.2GB/sec. memory bandwidth, 256-bit memory interface and support for ultra high-resolution panels up to 3840x2400 for ultimate productivity. Offering a new level of interactivity for engineers and designers, NVIDIA Quadro high-end graphics solutions enable shorter production cycles and faster time-to-market.

NVIDIA Quadro FX 3500
Memory Size : 256MB
Memory Interface : 256-bit
Graphics Memory Bandwidth: 40 GB/sec.
Graphics Bus : PCI Express



When all these 4 factors are almost same except Bandwidth why the pricing is so high for NVIDIA Quadro FX 3500
Memory Size
Memory Interface
Graphic Memory Bandwidth
Graphics Bus

How much performance difference does it make , where excatly it differs?

Regards
Xfiles
November 18, 2006 7:28:04 PM

Hi,

I am from Bangladesh and I am about to buy a system very similar to yours. B4 reading this thread, I was confused between FireGL and QUADRO FX but now I know what to choose.

I am getting these from Singapore:

1. ASUS P5W64 WS Professional
2. Intel E6600 Processor (Core2Duo 2.4)
3. Corsair TWIN2X2048-6400PRO (DDRII 800)
4. Nvidia Quadro FX 1500 PCIe Graphics Card (this I am buying from the US and Shipping will be US$ 75 to Dhaka)

I think you should look here for a comparison between different QUADRO Options. For my money, I found QUADRO FX 1500 gives best price-performance ratio. I will add the followings from local market:

5. 2 x 7200 RPM SATA (16 MB) drives on Raid 0
6. Thermaltake 500 Watt PSU (I am not sure of exact model number but since there is only one model available ... my choices are limited.)
7. Full tower case with extra front and side coolers (Maybe Thermaltake)
8. 2 x 17" Samsung LCD Monitors

The system will cost me around US$ 2400 - $2500 + another $390 if I decide to have a 3 day Singapore Trip myself. Otherwise, I can get the Mobo + Processor + RAM hand carried to Dhaka for about US$ 70/75.
November 18, 2006 8:24:14 PM

I have 2 friends that use 3DMAX often, one of them placed an order 3 weeks ago, i built him a, E6600,2G ram,FX3450 took that system to my other friends house thats running, Xeon 5150 2.66 GHz,FX3500,2G i had hime burn in the new system with some renders to make sure it would run stable!!

We set up the same project on both computers and hit render at the same time, after 5-10min he started to cry like a little baby, the new system was only a TAD TAD TAD bit slower them his at a lot less in price,he has me building the same specs next week,

If i were you E6600,2G,FX3450(it runs smother than 3500) all the way!!
i dont care what SPEC/benchmark charts say ,i seen first hand in my face the cost for the dual xeons & the FX1500 vs E6600 & FX3450 is like having a car with 300HP you might fell better with a car with 330 HP just really no need to go there,save a few bucks go with the E6600 hold onto the $$$$$$ you saved VS Xeon then in a few months upgrade you CORE2 to a faster CORE2 or Quad core CPU if your mobo supports if at that time!!!!!!!!
November 19, 2006 4:58:33 AM

what do you think due to budget can i go for any Gefoce card which can be used for max and doesn't exceed $300.

Later on i can plan out one more good in quad section.
!