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Newbie asks for advice on heat sink/fan for Intel Core2duo

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November 9, 2006 5:03:29 PM

I am about to order parts to assemble my first assembled PC and am now down to deciding what CPU heat sink would be best for my needs AND more importantly, fit in a Lian Li PC_C30 desktop case that is 167mm high on the outside.
I will be using Asus P965 P5B-E motherboard and a PCIe VGA card with 2 GB memory kit. I am looking at the Arctic Cooling Freezer Pro 7 which is 127mm high but am not sure whether there's enough headroom inside the case given the MB height off the desk plus the case thickness. I don't wan to use the stock Intel heat sink and would like to assemble everything in one session. My overclocking needs are not likely to be exterme, if any in the short term.

Was also looking at the Big Typhoon but that looks too big.

Given the possible 40mm spread between the size of the Freezer and the outsight height of the case, do you think that's enough --my calc. say that's about 1 3/4" at max. Seems like it should work, eh?
November 10, 2006 3:08:10 AM

Definetly 4cm will be enough. Youll have 2cm of clearance from the top at minimun.
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November 10, 2006 2:55:34 PM

Thanks you both for the advice and the installation link--it looks easy to install and I think it's a good move to install it rather than using the stock one, even if I never overclock like others. The price is right andd it seems like small insurance.
November 10, 2006 10:32:17 PM

Quote:
Thanks you both for the advice and the installation link--it looks easy to install and I think it's a good move to install it rather than using the stock one, even if I never overclock like others. The price is right andd it seems like small insurance.

However, like almost all non "flower-style" designs, it doesn't meet the 2nd part of the Intel LGA775 thermal spec: blowing air down onto the MB and out in all directions to cool nearby components such as the northbridge and PWM area.
If you want insurance, use the stock Intel hsf, or get a Thermaltake Golden/Blue Orb II, Zalman 7700, or similar flower-style hsf.
November 10, 2006 10:51:50 PM

Quote:
it doesn't meet the 2nd part of the Intel LGA775 thermal spec: blowing air down onto the MB and out in all directions to cool nearby components such as the northbridge and PWM area.

Thats BS and you know it.
Nothing a good exhaust fan cant take care of.
November 11, 2006 12:59:05 AM

Quote:

Thats BS and you know it.

Such claims can prove embarrassing when they're shown to be wrong. :wink:

I refer you to the following quote from (for example) the Intel Pentium D Processor 900 Sequence and Intel Pentium Processor Extreme Edition 955, 965 Datasheet (p97):
Quote:
The processor fan is the primary source of airflow for cooling the Vcc voltage regulator. Dedicated voltage regulator cooling components may be necessary if the selected fan is not capable of keeping regulator components below maximum rated temperatures.
November 11, 2006 2:24:13 AM

I didnt mean theyre false. I mean that they dont have to be met, like the 60c something degrees Intel recommends as a maximun in the heatspreader of C2Ds.
You know companies talk alot of crap nobody follows.
November 11, 2006 5:38:14 AM

Some companies talk a lot of cr*p; Intel tech docs don't do so in my experience, and I don't see any in their quote above. I've had personal experience on one of my systems with having to add extra fans to cool the PWM area because I was using a CPU hsf that didn't blow air over that area. My toasted fingertip suggests that the whole thing wasn't a hallucination, but what do I know? :wink:
If, like the OP, I were a newbie who wanted stability and insurance in my choice of hsf, I'd sure want to know about a possible stability issue with many aftermarket hsfs, even if it's not going to affect all systems or is MB-dependent.
November 11, 2006 6:26:54 AM

Quote:

Thats BS and you know it.

Such claims can prove embarrassing when they're shown to be wrong. :wink:

I refer you to the following quote from (for example) the Intel Pentium D Processor 900 Sequence and Intel Pentium Processor Extreme Edition 955, 965 Datasheet (p97):
Quote:
The processor fan is the primary source of airflow for cooling the Vcc voltage regulator. Dedicated voltage regulator cooling components may be necessary if the selected fan is not capable of keeping regulator components below maximum rated temperatures.


I have an Arctic Cooling Pro 7, Additional Northbridge cooling WAS needed in my overclocked system and this was taken care of with a little DX486 fan tie-wrapped near the rear heatsink.
November 11, 2006 7:38:34 AM

Get Tuniq Tower 120 or Thermalright Ultra-120 and you'll get the best air cooling possible, but since you don't overclock much then the Freezer should be able to handle the cpu.
November 11, 2006 9:12:06 PM

Somewhat true, somewhat can be solved with good airflow in the case.
Still, the only two blow down cooler that also provide great CPU cooling are the Thermalright SI-128 and BT. Things like the AC Freezer 7 Pro and Cooler Master Hyper TX blow down some air so that could be a partial solution along with a good exhaust fan.
IMO, if youve got good case airflow (3+ fans) you shouldnt worry about not having a flower-style cooler.
November 12, 2006 12:35:09 AM

Hey, I just go with the facts.
I've got a Freezer 7 Pro and it doesn't blow down very much even in the one direction where a few fins are bent down. I've got a 120mm intake fan on the front, a 120mm exhaust fan on the back, the PS has a 120mm fan w/intake just above CPU/PWM area, and it wasn't enough, although SYS temps are consistently only 1-2 C above ambient temp. I glued heatsinks onto some of the VRMs out by the edge and installed a pair of 50mm fans blowing down onto the main PWM area, and that did the trick. Good thing the MB has tons of fan headers!
YMMV. Obviously, MB design plays a big part in this, as do the details of your running conditions.
I think the take-home message is that if you decide to replace an OEM part with an aftermarket one, you need to be pretty sure you understand every function the OEM part is performing. A lot of people knock the OEM Intel hsfs, but they are well-designed, they do a good job, and their build quality is better than average.
November 13, 2006 7:32:03 PM

Quote:
Somewhat true, somewhat can be solved with good airflow in the case. Still, the only two blow down cooler that also provide great CPU cooling are the Thermalright SI-128 and BT. Things like the AC Freezer 7 Pro and Cooler Master Hyper TX blow down some air so that could be a partial solution along with a good exhaust fan. IMO, if youve got good case airflow (3+ fans) you shouldnt worry about not having a flower-style cooler.

To say that the Thermalright SI-128 is a great blow-down cooler is kind of funny since it doesn't come with a fan.

The flower designs (Zalman, etc.) really are the best solution for C2D and similar setups, in spite of your apparent disdain for the propellor-beanies who actually designed the chips and the motherboards and did the testing and wrote the specifications. Yeah, they're just engineers, what the heck to they know. Sure if you have several case fans you're probably OK, just so long as you're smart enough to set them up so they're not interfering with each other. Then again 3+ case fans isn't part of the ATX spec. Or the AT spec. Or the BTX spec. Just pray that one or two of your VRMs doesn't happen to be in a pocket of relatively static air...

The overclocking folks here - and I'm not just zeroing in on you - seem to have a lot in common with the racer-boy crowd. Kids think they know more than the engineers, start souping up a car that could normally reach well over 100,000 miles without breaking anything major, then wonder why their suspension bits and steering box start breaking after they put those 19" wheels on, or why their tranny blew up or their pistons melted down with the new FI mapping and 5lbs more boost, etc. Simple. When you exceed or ignore design specs, eventually something's gotta give. The smarter kids who know how to compensate are the ones who don't have to call a tow truck on Friday night.

The OP says he doesn't even have any immediate OC needs and whatever he'll be doing won't be dramatic, so why recommend solutions that are actually worse than stock without compensating elsewhere?

You're free to like the SI-128 and its ilk. Really you are. But it's not the best for everything.

-Brad
November 13, 2006 11:25:46 PM

The Intel specs are design for stock voltage, stock speeds, projected to run at >50c and for the CPU to last over 10 years.
I need mine at 1.45v, >75c, at w/e speed I can reach like this, because I only need my CPU to last some 3 years.
Thats why I can differ with Intel specifications



Quote:
To say that the Thermalright SI-128 is a great blow-down cooler is kind of funny since it doesn't come with a fan.

:roll:
November 14, 2006 1:37:16 AM

Quote:
The Intel specs are design for stock voltage, stock speeds, projected to run at >50c and for the CPU to last over 10 years. I need mine at 1.45v, >75c, at w/e speed I can reach like this, because I only need my CPU to last some 3 years. Thats why I can differ with Intel specifications

Is it your estimate that your system will last three years at those temperatures? How did you produce that estimate?

BTW, Intel doesn't even publish MTBF numbers on its CPUs.

-Brad
November 14, 2006 4:16:38 AM

Temperatures arent important since you cant even tell, theyre only good to watching throttle (<85c). I like to play it safe and stay 10c under this.
But voltages is rather what dictates the life of your CPU, a exponential scale was made at XS forums and confirmed by wusy some time ago now. It started by overvolting a CPU to its limits and checking its performance, from there the curve was done.
Up to 1.45v was considered safe for 24/7 and 1.55v for 8 hours a day. Over 4 years at the same performance/voltage this way.
November 15, 2006 3:42:36 AM

Quote:
Temperatures arent important since you cant even tell, theyre only good to watching throttle (<85c). I like to play it safe and stay 10c under this. But voltages is rather what dictates the life of your CPU, a exponential scale was made at XS forums and confirmed by wusy some time ago now. It started by overvolting a CPU to its limits and checking its performance, from there the curve was done. Up to 1.45v was considered safe for 24/7 and 1.55v for 8 hours a day. Over 4 years at the same performance/voltage this way.

Mostly it's power dissipation, heat accumulation and thermal cycling that dictates the life of most electronic parts. Voltage is just what gets you there. Semiconductor characteristics at various voltages are one of the reasons that curve is exponential.

Wusy's a sharp cookie but without even looking at this scale, judging by your description, I'm not so sure I trust the the assumptions behind his methodology.

Just hope you don't become a victim of standard deviation.

-Brad
November 15, 2006 4:16:34 AM

anyone know if the Thermalright SI-128 would fit for him?
i think that it would
November 15, 2006 4:31:55 AM

Quote:
Just hope you don't become a victim of standard deviation.

A risk every overclocker has to take.
Thats why performance, voltage fluctuations etc. needs to be monitored even after the OC has been considered 'stable'; to know your CPUs potential on the long run.
!